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  TOV News > Forbes.com article: "Acura: The Honda That Didn't" > > Re: Hey mditty!

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Atomic Frog
Profile for Atomic Frog
Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 13:13
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Why do people keep on demanding a V8?
Porsche has run flat-6 for, well, just about forever and nobody seems to mind. Anyone want to say that Porsche doesn't have enough guts?

Honda's 4-cylinders are more powerful and as smooth as most other's 6-cylinders. Their 6-cylinders are equally good.

I challenge most people to drive a car "blindfolded" and tell me if it's a V-6 or V-8 and tell me if it is FWD or RWD. Most people would not be able to tell. They are just listening to brainless marketing crap. (I'm not saying RWD isn't good. For those of us who push all the way, it's the only way to go).

Honda, even Acura, builds cars for the people to use everyday. I think NSX is a prime example of this. It's (was) a supercar, but unlike many of its competitors, it was one you could drive comfortably everyday, and if you could plunk down money for it, it wouldn't cost you an arm and a leg to run it.

If I want a race car, I'll get a purpose built race car. Most of us are in the real world and can only afford 1 or 2 cars that must also haul groceries. Honda usually makes ideal cars for that.

Banker
Profile for Banker
Why a V-8? Torque is the answer [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 13:30
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Torque.

If you want to use Porsche then you must conceed that in order for Porsche to be a serious player they had to produce the Porsche Turbo. If Acura wants to put a Turbo on the RL to boost HP and Torque, then by all means do it.

Beattles
Profile for Beattles
Re: Why a V-8? Torque is the answer [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 13:50
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Those people who buy Escalades and H2s don't buy them because of whats under the hood. How many people actually go 4x4ing or haul huge loads in their Cadillac? They buy them because of the way they look and the whole identity that goes with them. Acura has a great rep for quality cars and cars that can perform. Bottom line is the need to build cars that can compete aesthetically with some of the other luxury brands.
V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Why a V-8? Torque is the answer [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 14:49
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Acura needs to work on a concept called PRESTIGE. A concept which has continued to elude Acura all these years.
Logic
Profile for Logic
Re: Why a V-8? Torque is the answer [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 15:05
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Prestiges.. This remind of a quote..

Don't dress for look. People who doesn't know you won't care and people who know you know your true self.

I know that car company does alot of marketing and trying to make car as part of growing up or prestiges as some people would like to put it. The fact of the matter is, most people don't care. Most people will buy a car for it functionality. Of course the car has to look nice, but we don't need V-8.

Also, if I remember correctly, Honda/Acura just broke another record in sale for February. That kind of sals figure tell me only one things and that people like what honda/Acura is doing with their cars. We don't need V-8... I think people need to grow up and stop thinking about prestiges and start thinking about social responsibility.

akal50
Profile for akal50
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 16:11
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It's all about image. People who buy luxury cars or sports cars want to be able to say their car has X number of cylinders. Imagine what people would think of BMW or Lexus if their top cars only came with 6 cylinder engines. In the minds of luxury car buyers, it wouldn't matter whether the Lexus V6 was more powerful than the Mercedes V8. For Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus, promoting an image of luxury is even harder because they have to deal with the perception that their cars are just dressed-up Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas. By offering a V8 in its top models, Lexus sends a signal to potential customers that they're not just getting a nicer Toyota. This is also why many luxury brands recommend using premium fuel. I've talked to several Acura mechanics and they've all said that you can use regular gas in the TL. The Acura marketing people came up the idea of recommending premium gas so people who buy the TL will think they're getting an engine that's more sophisticated than that of a Honda Accord.
Atomic Frog
Profile for Atomic Frog
Re: Why a V-8? Torque is the answer [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 20:16
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Torque? What's torque got to do with it?

Seriously, I have an MDX, the original one. It's a 6-cylinder, rated at 240lb-ft torque.
Ford Explorer V-8? 280lb-ft torque.

Funny thing, my MDX is rated to scoot to 100km/hr (that's 60mph) in about 8.1s or so. Autoweek tested it to 7.75s, the 2003 MDX is supposed to do it even faster.
The Explorer V-8? It crawls there in 8.6s. So what was the torque for? Towing? Like anyone tows with a luxo-SUV?

How about the Lincoln LS-8? Another big V-8 machine from the boys in Detroit with 286lb-ft. Ford itself claims a 0-60mph time of 6.4seconds.
The puky little TL Type-S with it's "tiny" 6-cylinder with "only" 232lb-ft? Autofile/Autoweek tests it at 6.42seconds. There ain't nobody gonna be towing with a Lincoln LS-8!

Wait a minute, better performance and better fuel economy and cheaper to boot. Remind me again why a V-8 is better?
I mentioned Porsche. How about BMW? At what point can one buy a 8-cylinder in their cars? The much loved 5 and 3, they don't have a V-8, do they? neither does anyone think they have a problem.

Face it, having a V-8 is for perception only. Now, if you're the kind of guy who needs to be able to say "I got a V-8", well, then, what can I say?....

Let's face it, it's hard to argue with success. Honda/Acura can't keep its cars on the lot. (Unlike the Big-3). Customers are buying everything they can churn out. Who's to say their formula is wrong?

mad_ox1
Profile for mad_ox1
Re: Why a V-8? Torque is the answer [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 20:48
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Before someone else yells at you, the BMW 5 series does come with a V8. I agree with most of your points though.
HammerM
Profile for HammerM
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 20:49
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The BMW 540i has a 4.4L V-8 (290hp/324lb-ft @ 18/24 mpg) and the M5 a 4.9L V-8 (394hp/368lb-ft @ 13/21 mpg).
V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Prestige vs. Functionality [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 21:30
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Try telling BMW/MB/Lexus owners that they bought their cars for functionality.
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Prestige vs. Functionality [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 22:02
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mercedes trucks.. mercedes buses... mercedes vans saw several van that they use to transport goods and groceries when i was in singapore last summer BMWs.. they use it for police cars in dat same country. Lexus... since onli in US onli for consulate transport cars/suvs. I my country the use Lexus LX470 to survey lands what prestige? oh dont forget the MB taxis...in HK and singapore and europe.
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 22:04
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Lux.. image.. i got more money than you.. i can pay more gasoline than you.. i got more Vs than you. yeah i got more DEBT than you also hahahaha
V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Prestige vs. Functionality [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 22:30
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That's in your local geographical area. Here in North America, BMW/MB/Lexus are associated with the concept of luxury, hence prestige.
V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 22:33
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Those who can afford expensive cars typically don't have to worry about debts since they have the money to purchase those cars in the first place.
99ESMAX
Profile for 99ESMAX
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-10-2003 08:59
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Honda wants to be different. Therefore, different means you are not with the crowd. There is no problem being not with the "in" crowd. But in the car industry, being different also means having a market share in all the different segments. Winning customers in all segments is what makes a complete company. Why did Honda/Acura venture into the SUV segment? Makes money!!! Produce the V-6 and a lot of new cars/trucks can use it. Keeps cost down and earns market share. Honda did well. Now produce a V-8, slot them in the new RL, TL, and future trucks/SUVs. Then, Acura would be the Acura they should of been, the prestigous name plate that represents Japanese luxury. Take the plunge Honda/Acura. I know you can do it. :)
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-10-2003 11:38
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not 100% true.. must check how many folks pay cash and how many on credit.. or lease.
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Prestige vs. Functionality [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-10-2003 11:40
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btw.. what happen to jaguar? they are not lux too? not anymore? thats weird not many ppl think british can make lux car. onli german
poweredbyhonda
Profile for poweredbyhonda
Jaguar is just a Ford in disguise! (no thanx) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-10-2003 20:12
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But I`d almost prefer it over a front wheel drive TL.
Can`t Honda steal the drivetrain of the S2000 and make a decent TL or a real Bimmer fighter called CL (CLX)?

V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-10-2003 22:47
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Obviously you don't live in North America. There are ways to pay cash and not be in debt. I'll give you one of my friends for example. He plays the stock market and made a load of money. You know the first thing he did with this money? He bought himself a brand new Lexus GS300. You tell me where the debt is? Of course this is just one example. But the point is there are other ways of making money other than working a 9 to 5 job.
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2003 07:28
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Play stock? uhm so very yesterday..stock hasnt been good lately...unless you are old money, trust fund kids well maybe not but I seen US economy its performance is not that good for these past 2-3 years. workin 9-5 job since many ppl got laid off. IT folks laid of just after tech fall. Financial ppl lost many of their job just end of last year. and u are wrong. about i dont live in US. I live in NC & TX for few years.. and I live in NYC the financial city so i know the US economy.
NSXman
Profile for NSXman
Porsche GT3 has no turbo [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2003 14:19
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The GT3 is all motor. No turbo whatsoever and the car is lightning fast. Let's also remember that the Carerra models are not slow cars. Most of the contending non-American sports car do not have V8 engines.
NSXman
Profile for NSXman
NSX will turn heads [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2003 14:21
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The NSX will turn heads, but even so, has it occured to anyone that perhaps Honda doesn't care about prestige?
enemy
Profile for enemy
Re: Why a V-8? Torque is the answer [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2003 15:32
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Horsepower/Weight ratio may be the final arbiter of full throttle acceleration, but the torque of a V8 has a lot to do with how hard the engine has to work run to get you going. A larger displacement engine will generate its torque at a much lower RPM then an engine with smaller displacement. This results in better midrange passing times, higher tow rating, and perhaps most significantly, more relaxed operation.

When I'm driving alone, I don't mind reving my engine to 4500+ RPMs, but when my wife and daughter are in the car, I have a much more relaxed driving style. At those times, I wish had a bigger engine to provide more low-end grunt. The same goes for luxury car buyers, even more so. They don't want to floor the throttle and wait for the engine to build up speed (and accompanying noise).

The new AMG MB and Maybachs generate 500+ lb-ft at 2000 RPM. You tap the throttle and the car goes. Not floor the throttle, hold first gear, shift near redline, repeat for next 3 gears. Driving it like you stole it is not a acceptable for luxury car buyers.

Luxury vehicles are almost entirely about perception. You don't think people are paying 60K just for transportation, do you? I don't think Honda/Acura's formula is wrong. It's just different. But neither is MB, BMW, nor Lexus' formula wrong.

Atomic Frog wrote:
Torque? What's torque got to do with it?

Seriously, I have an MDX, the original one. It's a 6-cylinder, rated at 240lb-ft torque.
Ford Explorer V-8? 280lb-ft torque.

Funny thing, my MDX is rated to scoot to 100km/hr (that's 60mph) in about 8.1s or so. Autoweek tested it to 7.75s, the 2003 MDX is supposed to do it even faster.
The Explorer V-8? It crawls there in 8.6s. So what was the torque for? Towing? Like anyone tows with a luxo-SUV?

How about the Lincoln LS-8? Another big V-8 machine from the boys in Detroit with 286lb-ft. Ford itself claims a 0-60mph time of 6.4seconds.
The puky little TL Type-S with it's "tiny" 6-cylinder with "only" 232lb-ft? Autofile/Autoweek tests it at 6.42seconds. There ain't nobody gonna be towing with a Lincoln LS-8!

Wait a minute, better performance and better fuel economy and cheaper to boot. Remind me again why a V-8 is better?
I mentioned Porsche. How about BMW? At what point can one buy a 8-cylinder in their cars? The much loved 5 and 3, they don't have a V-8, do they? neither does anyone think they have a problem.

Face it, having a V-8 is for perception only. Now, if you're the kind of guy who needs to be able to say "I got a V-8", well, then, what can I say?....

Let's face it, it's hard to argue with success. Honda/Acura can't keep its cars on the lot. (Unlike the Big-3). Customers are buying everything they can churn out. Who's to say their formula is wrong?



V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2003 17:41
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dodole wrote:
Play stock? uhm so very yesterday..stock hasnt been good lately...unless you are old money, trust fund kids well maybe not but I seen US economy its performance is not that good for these past 2-3 years. workin 9-5 job since many ppl got laid off. IT folks laid of just after tech fall. Financial ppl lost many of their job just end of last year. and u are wrong. about i dont live in US. I live in NC & TX for few years.. and I live in NYC the financial city so i know the US economy.


Who said anything about "US economy"?

dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2003 22:13
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Uhm.. u are saying that buyin luxury car here can u credit yada yada.. then i said debt then u said what debt?
V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2003 23:08
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You're lost, forget about it.
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Why a V-8? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2003 10:41
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lost what?
mditty
Profile for mditty
Hey V6VTEC! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-16-2003 23:18
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When are you going to put your money (or credit or lack thereof) where your mouth is and replace that 98 Accord with the F/R V8 car of your dreams that you keep blathering on about?
V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Hey mditty! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-17-2003 04:51
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mditty wrote:
When are you going to put your money (or credit or lack thereof) where your mouth is and replace that 98 Accord with the F/R V8 car of your dreams that you keep blathering on about?


When you are able to use your dirty car salesman tactics to fool me into buying one of your V6 powered FWD car thinking that I will be getting a RWD V8.

mditty
Profile for mditty
Re: Hey mditty! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-17-2003 12:12
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I wouldn't. Your objections to what Honda (and Acura) is making is like complaining about BMW not making a 16k F/F econo car. Acura was created simply to sell the upper scale Hondas in the US not to be the ultimate drving machine or be a Benz. When Acura was introduced the general public in the US would not have likely accepted a Honda more expensive than an Accord. The Honda/Acura distinction is similar to but not exactly like the Ford/Lincoln distinction or Chevy/Cadilac or Dodge/Chrysler. Americans in thier biases needed a fancer image to go with the fancier car. Lexus has a more extensive catalog of cars because Toyota does, same with Infiniti/Nissan. Honda is not selling F/R V8 sedans anywhere but Toyota and Nissan are so that is why we get them here as Lexus and Infiniti models. Think about it Honda has a very small product line compared to these two but their focus is on the high volume cars like Accords and Civics followed by the sport utes and the minivan. Honda putting more effort into cars that would make you happier with Honda would not add much to their sales numbers and the competition there would be tough indeed. Add up the number of cars that Benz BMW and Lexus sell in this country, factor in the loyalty their customers have and tell me that it wouldn't make more sense to try to steal more customers from the big 3. A big F/R V8 car would be cool to see Honda produce but sales wise it would be a non issue just like the NSX. As it stands the RL outsells the Q45. So what's in it for Honda/Acura besides impressing a few enthusiasts and journalists most of which probably would only talk about and test drive the car instead of buying it even if they liked it?

 
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