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  TOV News > Forbes.com article: "Acura: The Honda That Didn't" > > Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.!

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HardRevingBoi
Profile for HardRevingBoi
Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-07-2003 23:18
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From one of the top seller to one of the worst (compare to Lexus,BMW,Benz,Infiniti,and Audi)

Guess whats Acura gonna do next after hearing this? c'mon GUess!! give up? they gonna stick with FWD, I4 and V6, and of course the look of a normal Honda instead of a luxury car image! They don't learn do they??

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 00:17
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What the article fails to note is that Acura has chosen to offer fewer models than its competitors. This may be a mistake in and of itself, but when you look at sales vs. total model offerings, things look decent.

For example, let's look at Lexus which is a good target (being a similar sort of company rebuilding chassis from their lower lineup at Toyota).

Acura has:

RSX
CL/TL
RL
NSX
MDX

Lexus has:

IS
ES
GS
LS
SC
RX
LX

Lexus has an additional car line and truck line. Interestingly they sell about 50% more vehicles, which corresponds similarly to their larger number of models. The TSX and a redesigned RL should help boost sales dramatically.

On the BMW front, we have the 3, 5, 7, Z roadster/coupe, X-series, but they've got that German vibe and serious brand strength. MB has the brand strength and a large number of models. C, E, S class sedans. C-coupe, CLK coupes, SL roadster, M-class, G-class.

Acura needs to revamp their lineup no doubt, but this article didn't look at the whole picture.

SC

V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: I told you so!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 00:22
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I predicted this was bound to happen but did anyone take my rantings seriously??? NO!!!! You all called me a troll, a hater, you bashed my postings, you bashed me, and one coward even had the nerve to mock my postings. But you know what? I'm done with my rantings. Since no one is going to listen to a "troll" like me, I'll just let someone like Mr. Forbes here do all the talking for me.

=:-P

adonis
Profile for adonis
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 01:06
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It really is surprising that honda/acura doesn't pay attention. They make fantastic cars technically, but the image is more that of maytag than that of a car company. Also I'm surprised that even the largest Acuras have very little headroom. The MDX is the exception all the others are pretty tight - and I'm just six feet. Other people I know have the same complaint.

I even wrote to acura over a year ago and they never even responded. Even though many of the german cars are not as reliable as an Acura might be, at least you get some passion, comfort, and style. I wish Acura would change, but the TSX is evidence that they won't anytime soon.

00Accordv6
Profile for 00Accordv6
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 01:09
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I totally agree with the article, Acura has gone soft. notyper, you said that Acura has fewer cars in their line-up, than the other brands, so i think that goes to show Acura's lack of effort in the luxury segment. Lexus, although i cant stand them, has the right idea. They give the buyer a wider variety of vehicles to choose from. And last but not least, the whole V8 and RWD thing, i dont care much for a V8, but i think that if Honda were to make one, it would be incredible and i bet it would be a very clean running engine. As for RWD I think that Acura needs to drop the whole FWD thing and start offering RWD cars because to me they are just more fun, and they can handle high HP better than FWD cars.
kilmanjaro
Profile for kilmanjaro
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 01:20
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Well with the introduction of the TSX, that makes only 1 model less than Lexus and that's if you consider the CL and TL the same car (which I would not). So I don't see lack of models as the problem. I see the problem as lack of R/AWD and interior quality (not an issue with the TSX). Most people buying luxury cars are buying for image and that is what Acura needs to work on most IMO.


Last edited by kilmanjaro on 04-08-2003 01:21
AznSupastar
Profile for AznSupastar
Re: I told you so!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 01:40
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V6VTEC wrote:
I predicted this was bound to happen but did anyone take my rantings seriously??? NO!!!! You all called me a troll, a hater, you bashed my postings, you bashed me, and one coward even had the nerve to mock my postings. But you know what? I'm done with my rantings. Since no one is going to listen to a "troll" like me, I'll just let someone like Mr. Forbes here do all the talking for me.

=:-P



haha, that's funny dude (mr troll, j/k!). i feel ur pain man

yea i agree to article, acura needs to drop RL and put in that DNX (400hp + hybrid + AWD)!

the reason why NSX sales went down cuz they increased the freaking price SO high! it was like 85,000 the 1st yr it came out, now it's like 120,000???!!!

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 02:06
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You guys might want to note that 150k of Lexus sales in 2002 were from two models, the RX300 and ES300. What do you make of that?

SC

IMHO
Profile for IMHO
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 02:11
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Acura needs to look like a luxury car from the outside and inside. It needs to have prescence. When u c it, regardless of how cool or ugly it is, it needs to say communicate a sense of authority. I strongly believe that is the reason why Lexus kicked ass; the car felt and looked like a luxury (it was a Mercedes ripoff when it was first launched). The RL just looks like another bigger Honda with aggressive headlights. As for the interior design, only TSX and maybe the RL (albiet outdated) look luxurious. The rest definitly look "entry level", with the exception of the RSX, whose interior may be classified as a "luxury intern." I hope Honda/Acura learns.
mayonaise
Profile for mayonaise
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 02:13
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lets not forget the new lexus 4-runner, i mean, GX

i think you bring up a very good point. it would have been important for the point of the article to consider the number of models. you could also consider the fact that other companies like audi and BMW offer different versions of each class of car.

audi:
A4 1.8 T
A4 1.8 T Avant
A4 1.8 T Cabriolet
A4 3.0
A4 3.0 Avant
A4 3.0 Cabriolet

BMW:
3-series sedans:
325i
325xi
330i
330xi
coupes:
325Ci
330Ci
convertibles:
325Ci
330Ci
wagons:
325i
325xi

mercedes:
C230 Kompressor Sports Coupe
C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan
C240 Sedan
C240 Sport Wagon
C320 Sports Coupe
C320 Sedan
C320 Sport Sedan
C320 Sport WagonC32 AMG

these other model variants give people a LOT more to choose from when it comes to acura's competitors. so it would also be a good idea to include these numbers into an article like this one. by offering versions of models with less power, for example, they can also target a much wider market with each class of car. remember the 318?

if you look at honda's american offerings, they're also pretty slim compared to their competitors.

civic
civic SI
accord
odyssey
cr-v
element
insight
pilot
s2000

compare it to toyota:
mr2 spyder
celica
matrix
avalon
camry
solara
corolla
echo
prius
rav4
land cruiser
sequoia
4runner
sienna
highlander

honda's got plenty of models in japan. maybe this is just part of their north american marketing strategy, or maybe its all an economic thing. either way, they need more cars. hopefully they'll figure it out eventually

IMHO
Profile for IMHO
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 02:20
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The LS430 outsold the RL, even though the LS is more expensive. The MDX sold more than the RX (i think), and the TL sold more than the ES. The thing is, LS430 is a respected luxury car, whereas auto writers usually make excuses to recommend the RL. "You can't go wrong with it. It's reliable. It's a Honda after all." I'd rather they say, "Damn, that car is something. I wouldn't want any other car. It has redefined its class. There goes my son's college savings, I hope my son would understand once he c's the car (well... maybe not that far)."
RSX
Profile for RSX
Re: I told you so!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 07:21
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It's amazing how "one" writer (equal to one person) can have such a respected opinion. This is a magazine that writes about what? Not cars, that's for sure. How do you respect such an opinion. I believe that year after year sales of Acura's continue to grow and with the launch of the new RL (300hp AWD V6) it will put Acura at the top with luxury/performance. Cheers to Acura for not giving in to the small percentage of people who want a RWD V8. After all, even the Cadilac STS is a FWD.
CanadaCraig
Profile for CanadaCraig
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 07:43
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I absolutely agree - IMHO. In fact - I said basically the same thing a little while ago. I have waited for years for Acura to build a genuine luxury car - a car that I would be proud to park next to my NSX. [but no such Acura exists] A person [such as myself] doesn't buy a luxury car because it makes 'sense' - he buys a luxury car because it stirs the soul. If I'm going to spend 'luxury car' money ON a car - I want bragging rights. I don't want to have to search my 'left brain' for answers every time someone asks me WHY I bought a car. [i.e. well... it gets pretty good gas mileage......... yawn!!]

Bravo to Frobes. I hope Honda/Acura will [someday] get its head out of its own ass and build something that people would gladly trade in their Mercedes-Benz's, BMW's and Lexus' in on. [isn't that how it should have been - all along?!]

Craig!! :o)

V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: I told you so!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 14:41
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Correct me if I am wrong but Forbes writes about the economy. Perhaps they know something that you don't? Did you bother to check out the total sales numbers for Acura for 2002 vs. the competitions'? It's nowhere near the competitions' sales figures. And considering that Acura had a 4 year headstart ahead of Lexus, there is something wrong with this picture. By the way, where is the almighty 260hp, 6MT, LSD equipped CL-S? Discontinued?? You can casually dismiss other people's assessment of the situation, automobile industry related or not. But the total sales numbers at the end of the fiscal year do not lie.
Logic
Profile for Logic
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 15:23
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Why does it so important for you to be able to brag about how you can polute the environment faster than other car driver???

I hate to sound like an environementalist.. but I approve of Honda continue attempt to be green. I know that scientist have not link Global warming to our current weather changes.. but I for once is not going to wait for that day to come.

I have nothing against people buying luxury cars and they work hard they deserve it. But we should be choosing luxury cars that environmentally responsible. The only way for other car manufacturer to start developing gas efficient luxury car.. is to stop buying their cars. It very sad that it is human nature to wait for something bad to happend before changes are accepted.

Banker
Profile for Banker
Re: I told you so!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 15:33
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I couldn't agree more! Sales numbers do not lie. Honda has done a wonderful job of expanding their market and finally (literally.... at the last moment) started selling a real minivan and SUV. Let's see. Chysler invented the minivan in 1983, Honda finally had a real competitor in 2000. If it only 17 years to be competitive in one of the most lucrative markets in automotive history, then I guess Acura is taking the same strategy. They will eventually cave in and build RWD.

They did with the NSX......

CanadaCraig
Profile for CanadaCraig
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 16:01
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Logic - I'm not sure what I said - exactly - that would lead you to believe that I'm OK with 'warming the environment'. [or that I'd want to be able to 'brag' about such a 'thing']

Craig



Last edited by CanadaCraig on 04-08-2003 16:30
Logic
Profile for Logic
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-08-2003 17:29
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I apologize if I overreacted... I hope I didn't offend you.. But after I read your line

"A person [such as myself] doesn't buy a luxury car because it makes 'sense' - he buys a luxury car because it stirs the soul. If I'm going to spend 'luxury car' money ON a car - I want bragging rights."

I was under the impression that you are okay with it. I apologize if I misread it.

00Accordv6
Profile for 00Accordv6
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 01:48
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Just thought i would add this, the luxury car brands out there have LEV ratings on all/majority of their cars. And I fully undertsand the way craig feels. The way i see it if you have an NSX, you cant just park any car next to it.
Golgitob18ca
Profile for Golgitob18ca
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 02:14
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is anyone forgetting that acura only sell in america and not in the rest of the world like LEX,MB,BMW,AUDI, HELLOW lets only compare sells in north america!!!!!!!!!!
CanadaCraig
Profile for CanadaCraig
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 06:50
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Thanks Logic!! I really appreciate the apology!! Like you - I think it's important NOT to polute the air [any more than we have to] and to use fuel sparingly. [and -ideally - a 'luxury' should excel in both of those catagories] However - a 'luxury' car should ALSO be able to boast about other 'things' - TOO. [like how well it handles -and how powerful it is and how comfortable and quiet it is - 'things' like that]

Take care of yourself,
Craig!! :o)

CanadaCraig
Profile for CanadaCraig
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 06:59
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Hi 00Accordv6 - just so you know - it's NOT as though I think I'm too 'good' [or anything like that] to park just ANY car next to my NSX - it's just that after driving the NSX [and no offense intended] a Hyundai feels like crap!! lol

Take care of yourself,
Craig!! :o)

Logic
Profile for Logic
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 11:39
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CanadaCraig wrote:
Hi 00Accordv6 - just so you know - it's NOT as though I think I'm too 'good' [or anything like that] to park just ANY car next to my NSX - it's just that after driving the NSX [and no offense intended] a Hyundai feels like crap!! lol

Take care of yourself,
Craig!! :o)




Correction.. Hyundai is crap.. :P

A friend bought one.. Engine fell off.. after 1 1/2 year only..

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
There's no need to do it [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 13:04
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I dont' really think Honda people need some journalist from Forges to told them they're selling less luxury car's because of FWD and no V8.
Do you guy's think the people at Honda are so stupid ???

I don't want to hurt some feels, but you american people have a big tendence to think that there's only one important thing: " Be the best at everything and make money before everything"

There're other things that are really important, and those things are some of the ones that make Honda a UNIQUE company. I'm talking about something like an "identity", like a company "philosopy". If Honda wanted to sell luxury cars like puppets, they would have developped large V8, V10 and whatever was necessary to do it. But this is at the opposite of the Honda philosophy, and I just hope they never fall in this absurd game. As long as they keep on building cars accordly to their philosophy, I'll keep on buying Honda cars. And when I thought about buying a luxury car, I'll rather take a Honda powered V6 than a Toyota powered V8. Of course, I'm one of the 166.000 buyers of Acura, and not one of the 234.000 buyers of Lexus. Maybe if Honda start bringing V8 then I'll go for a BMW.

In the other hand, the analysis of the Forbes journalist isn't really accurate. The main reason for Mercedes and BMW selling so low before, and so high now, is because they weren't really introduced in the US and in the last years they really made an effort in the US market.

Finally, even thinking just about the market, and forgetting all about "ideals", the auto market is not about selling millions of cars, it's about making profit. And Honda make much more proffit than Mercedes or BMW selling less cars.

jes98gsr
Profile for jes98gsr
Aha! And RX/ES are both Camry's! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 15:34
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Same Japanese philosophy of manufacturing economy. Lovely thing, those market forces.

notyper wrote:
You guys might want to note that 150k of Lexus sales in 2002 were from two models, the RX300 and ES300. What do you make of that?

SC



jes98gsr
Profile for jes98gsr
Aha! And RX/ES are both Camry's! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 15:35
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Same Japanese philosophy of manufacturing economy. Lovely thing, those market forces.

notyper wrote:
You guys might want to note that 150k of Lexus sales in 2002 were from two models, the RX300 and ES300. What do you make of that?

SC



dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 21:44
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They learn if their company buried in debt like nissan.. or sell small number of car like Mitsu and Mazda.

As for Toyota.. u cant beat their image. reliabilty coz toyota is like asian GM.. HUGE.

Many of u folks complained acura sell few lux car.. well economy is not that good these past few years. and with the fuel running out soon. I hope my children still can drive a gasoline car or SUV

So eventhough acura doesnt sell that much at least the honda division sells. lux image? yeah compare to other lux car company but for ppl with no dough acura is a good brand. coz honda's moto always been affordability ( he was a poor boy before he start the business so he know that not everyone can expensive cars) dats why compare to Honda, Acura offer very few model

V6VTEC
Profile for V6VTEC
Re: Aha! And RX/ES are both Camry's! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-09-2003 22:24
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Actually the only thing common between RX/ES and Camry is the chassis, engine and the company that produces them. Other than that exterior and interior design and quality of materials are quite different.
HardRevingBoi
Profile for HardRevingBoi
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-10-2003 01:32
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Acura Haven't been doing anything right ever since it lost the war to Lexus. As you can see from the chart that Acura was selling like hot cake back then.

U guys can't use affordability and LEV to defend Acura.

First of all Acura was meant to be a luxury car and what kind of luxury only cost $22k(RSX)-$45k(RL) thats even below entry level compare to others. if you want affordability stick with Honda and if you have more money spent it on Acura, that was the orginal plan. Nowaday you can't tell the different between a Honda and an Acura.

Second. Lexus also sell LEV and they still out sell Acura. FWD may save a little bit of gas but it is worth risking the luxury image? V8 doesn't take that much more gas then a V6 (unless its an American V8).

Why is Toyota so HUGE? cause it know what it customers want thats why! They take risk and its payin they off pretty well. Acura on the other hand stick it old tradition which work better for Honda image then Acura luxury image.

99ESMAX
Profile for 99ESMAX
Re: Somebody show this to Honda Motor Co.! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-10-2003 08:37
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The Acura RL/Legend was a good car back then. It was luxurious. Honda thought it did well. Times have changed and the competition is getting better and better to the point Acura is losing out. Why is Honda in business? To satisfy customer needs, to make good cars, and make money. Honda didn't satisfy the Acura crowd. When people think about luxury they definitely don't think Acura. Acura onlly means entry level luxury. Honda needs to spend the money and improve the Acura name or just wipe the whole Acura name out. Toyota had a mission when they created Lexus. Make Lexus compete with the big boys from Europe. They succeeded and surpassed their own expectations. They invested heavily on building V-8s, great interiors, and what represents Japanese cars, reliability. Honda can do this also but chose to sit idle. Philosophy doesn't earn large profits. Honda, wake up and get going or you will be left behind without an Acura name.

 
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