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  TOV News > In first month on sale, Honda CR-Z sells at 10 times the monthly plan > > Re: 2 things I don't quite get

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Great_Tubimi
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2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2010 09:04
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1. Why are the numbers SO off after so much market research? Either the underestimation was calculated to make for a "feel good" story for Honda, or someone screwed up. I'll wait to see how it sell over upcoming months to see if this is just a burst or an indicator of sales pace.

2. How are the pre-orders being touted as sales for vehicles that haven't been built yet, but when the ZDX released sales numbers, some folks were saying that production needed to be ramped up before we make any judment on its sales future? What's the difference in the two situations?

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2010 09:35
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
[...]
2. How are the pre-orders being touted as sales for vehicles that haven't been built yet, but when the ZDX released sales numbers, some folks were saying that production needed to be ramped up before we make any judment on its sales future? What's the difference in the two situations?

Well,
1st) These aren't sales, they are "orders".
2nd) I don't know how these things work in the US, and I'm not 100% sure about Japan, but in Europe it's pretty common to buy a car and wait for it. Usually you don't put the whole money down, but enough (1000-2000€) for the dealer to be pretty sure that you won't back away. At least over here, an order = a sale (we waited 2 months for our Insight).

As for the ZDX, you are talking about a car made in few hundred units per month over the whole US (which is an incredibly large country). I guess some people may argue that if dealers don't even have cars to show to their customers, they can't move them. Others will say that Acura simply won't take orders from dealers. And others may say that the US customer isn't ready to put its money down for a car that may not come before 3 or 4 months, which is a "lost sale". These Japanese people are simply making their orders and being ready to wait.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2010 09:43
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danielgr wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
[...]
2. How are the pre-orders being touted as sales for vehicles that haven't been built yet, but when the ZDX released sales numbers, some folks were saying that production needed to be ramped up before we make any judment on its sales future? What's the difference in the two situations?

Well,
1st) These aren't sales, they are "orders".
2nd) I don't know how these things work in the US, and I'm not 100% sure about Japan, but in Europe it's pretty common to buy a car and wait for it. Usually you don't put the whole money down, but enough (1000-2000€) for the dealer to be pretty sure that you won't back away. At least over here, an order = a sale (we waited 2 months for our Insight).

As for the ZDX, you are talking about a car made in few hundred units per month over the whole US (which is an incredibly large country). I guess some people may argue that if dealers don't even have cars to show to their customers, they can't move them. Others will say that Acura simply won't take orders from dealers. And others may say that the US customer isn't ready to put its money down for a car that may not come before 3 or 4 months, which is a "lost sale". These Japanese people are simply making their orders and being ready to wait.

And btw, an obvious difference is that it is not a US business practice to communicate about "orders", whereas it's not a common Japanese practice to communicate about "model specific unit sales".

To my knowledge, Honda only provides directly information about:
- sales of their top selling models (those on the national top10 for each month)
- total monthly unit sales.
- first month orders trends for each new model.

And that's about it. Pretty different from the US practice...

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2010 11:10
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One of the biggest headaches in any business is predicting volume, particularly in the car industry.

The CR-Z is almost inventing a new segment; it could as easily flop as sell like hot cakes.

The Japanese are uniquely fickle and sales could dwindle fairly rapidly.

Remember too BMW grossly underestimated MINI sales and had to double-shift and expand the plant very quickly. Again, the car was quite a big gamble for them.

Better that way round than the other!

Stevens24
Profile for Stevens24
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2010 12:04
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My understanding is Japanese customers do not ever take delivery of a vehicle at purchase. It tales 2-3 months before you can take delivery due to registration etc.

So if the dealer can sell the vehicle and not just take a deposit. I could seel this.

Blue_Sky_surfer
Profile for Blue_Sky_surfer
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2010 13:46
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danielgr wrote:
As for the ZDX, you are talking about a car made in few hundred units per month over the whole US (which is an incredibly large country). I guess some people may argue that if dealers don't even have cars to show to their customers, they can't move them. Others will say that Acura simply won't take orders from dealers. And others may say that the US customer isn't ready to put its money down for a car that may not come before 3 or 4 months, which is a "lost sale". These Japanese people are simply making their orders and being ready to wait.

Also one has to consider that the incentive from local government is said to end in Sept. Therefore, everyone who's decided to buy a new car would jump in /join the queue, especially for a new product that may be in short supply in the first few months.
I think when the Prius Mk III was released in JDM last year, customers would have to wait for five to six months.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2010 14:04
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Blue_Sky_surfer wrote:
danielgr wrote:
As for the ZDX, you are talking about a car made in few hundred units per month over the whole US (which is an incredibly large country). I guess some people may argue that if dealers don't even have cars to show to their customers, they can't move them. Others will say that Acura simply won't take orders from dealers. And others may say that the US customer isn't ready to put its money down for a car that may not come before 3 or 4 months, which is a "lost sale". These Japanese people are simply making their orders and being ready to wait.

Also one has to consider that the incentive from local government is said to end in Sept. Therefore, everyone who's decided to buy a new car would jump in /join the queue, especially for a new product that may be in short supply in the first few months.
I think when the Prius Mk III was released in JDM last year, customers would have to wait for five to six months.

Indeed, that has to be pushing sales as well, but there are still 5 months until September... I would guess that what matters is when you do the deal, not when you receive your car, but I don't know for sure.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the end of the green incentives to see how much is it going to impact the hybrid_vs_nonHybrid sales balance. I don't know for the CR-Z, but I have the feeling that hybrid sales may suffer less than some people may think. Incentives are helping for sure, but Japanese people are really getting into the "ECO mood", with or without them.

Gordio
Profile for Gordio
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2010 10:38
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Here's what I don't get...

When the CRZ brochure leaked and revealed the specs, even the japanese community was disappointed and furious. So why did it sell so well anyway?

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2010 11:47
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Are you serious?

Maybe 10% of its market are the petrolheaded sad f ucks who hang out on such internet fourms, insted of getting a life.

the other 90% buy it because it looks nice or it's hybrid or funky or kewl or matches their dress or some shit and they dunno if it's FWD or RWD or what that means.

I once had a girlfriend ask where the engine was in a caravan trailer - seriously!

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2010 13:30
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Nick Graves wrote:
Are you serious?

Maybe 10% of its market are the petrolheaded sad f ucks who hang out on such internet fourms, insted of getting a life.
[...]

I'd say 10% is a tad too much ...

People here still think that BMW makes a living out of people caring about weight distribution and RWD setups...

EggLaNd'S BeSt
Profile for EggLaNd'S BeSt
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2010 15:58
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I think by 40 percent of the buyers opting for the 6MT, it shows that at least some of them care about the driving experience of the CR-Z. This is good news and completely unexpected by me.

Even though I wouldn't purchase a CR-Z in its current form, the early success and manual transmisson take rate bodes well for future high-performance models of the CR-Z. And I hope Honda sees that people still want to buy MT vehicles, eco or not.

There would be a new CR-V in my driveway if it was available with a MT option in the US.

CR-V9
Profile for CR-V9
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2010 18:19
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Nick Graves wrote:
Are you serious?

Maybe 10% of its market are the petrolheaded sad f ucks who hang out on such internet fourms, insted of getting a life.

the other 90% buy it because it looks nice or it's hybrid or funky or kewl or matches their dress or some shit and they dunno if it's FWD or RWD or what that means.

I once had a girlfriend ask where the engine was in a caravan trailer - seriously!


Oh God, help me. I need a life.

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2010 00:46
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CR-V9 wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Are you serious?

Maybe 10% of its market are the petrolheaded sad f ucks who hang out on such internet fourms, insted of getting a life.

the other 90% buy it because it looks nice or it's hybrid or funky or kewl or matches their dress or some shit and they dunno if it's FWD or RWD or what that means.

I once had a girlfriend ask where the engine was in a caravan trailer - seriously!


Oh God, help me. I need a life.



I do believe the two of you are speaking 'tongue in cheek'. But anyway...

It is interesting that here in Asia, manufacturers are going all out to court the enthusiasts. Honda Malaysia made known their opinion that enthusiasts / Honda club members forms maybe 20% of the buying majority at most, but their opinions, recommendations and activities create 80% of the influence on how common people view their cars. BMW Malaysia deals direct with the local 'BMWClub.com.my' people, Audi Malaysia just started operations a few years ago and the CEO went all out to invite the local Audi club members to all his events, eventhough he knows the majority actually bought their Audi's used. Mazda Malaysia is proud to tell people they are in direct contact with the Mazda RX-8 owners club, the Mazda Roadster club, and so forth. Even Toyota Malaysia (called UMW Toyota) has formed their own owners club. I heard things are going the same way in many countries here as well.

One Honda Malaysia senior manager put it in a unique way. "We can have thousands of Honda City'es prying the road but that's nothing special. But just ONE nicely modified Honda City, with tasteful wheels, bodykit and so forth, will turn heads everywhere it goes and THAT generates more attention than any of our publicity efforts can ever hope to get".

The thing about this first month sale is, yes, it is fantastic news that the CR-Z is not the failure that we all are fearing it might be. However, having such a sales figure DOES NOT MEAN it is selling well. It just means it is overdelivering to what Honda is expecting / hoping it to. Perhaps Honda set too low an expectation intentionally after reading the feedbacks in the forums and Honda fan clubs ? Who is to say that if Honda had done the CR-Z 'properly' according to what many enthusiasts wants (OK, those who wants better balance of power, etc), that the CR-Z would not have deliver 2 or 3 times what it has managed to deliver now ?

I for one is extremely happy to hear the CR-Z indeed sells well, or at least better than what Honda predicts. This can only bode well for Honda's idea of 'hybrid performance'. Hopefully now the designer's idea of wanting a more powerful version will be granted. I hope the CR-Z can continue to deliver good sales for the next few months. That to me is the more critical factor. I don't know about Japan but over here, orders and booking means nothing because Honda Malaysia allows a full refund for cancelled bookings for up to a month before committed delivery date. Meaning if the waiting list for the CR-Z is say 3 months and it is here in ASEAN for e.g., then there is the big possibility up to 2/3s or 67% of those 'sales' can be cancelled in the next couple of months.

Not trying to throw cold water on our optimism, just want to put some realism into the picture.

P54
Profile for P54
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2010 01:07
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CR-V9 wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Are you serious?

Maybe 10% of its market are the petrolheaded sad f ucks who hang out on such internet fourms, insted of getting a life.

the other 90% buy it because it looks nice or it's hybrid or funky or kewl or matches their dress or some shit and they dunno if it's FWD or RWD or what that means.

I once had a girlfriend ask where the engine was in a caravan trailer - seriously!


Oh God, help me. I need a life.



And God says:"In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the
time of God's favor,now is the day of salvation. Not just a life, but the life, that lasts unto eternal life.

Jesus says,
"I am the bread of life.He who comes to Me shall never hunger" (John 6:35).

Billy Graham says,
Without bread or rice, a meal would not seem like a meal. Jesus fed the physically hungry. But Jesus' greatest concern was for people with spiritual hunger.

A doctor in America said some time ago that more people die of loneliness and guilt and depression and insecurity and heart hunger than die of physical starvation. Bread in the Bible is the symbol of spiritual life. People all over the world are the same; they have an inborn hunger for something, and that something is Christ. People cannot be satisfied with anything less than Christ. Jesus said, "I am the living bread which came down from heaven" (Cf. John 6:33). "If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever" (John 6:51).

To receive Christ into your heart seems so simple. You just open your heart and say, "Lord Jesus, come in. I'm willing to turn from my sins and receive You as my Lord and Savior." Jesus says, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger" (John 6:35). This bread satisfies the inner longings and hungers of the human heart. Have you taken of that bread? You must repent of your sins, change your mind, turn your back on sin and receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Jesus says, "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life."(John6,63)

So as you see, God has already provided the help you need for LIFE, all you need is to accept it and receive it. May God bless you.




Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2010 10:16
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Yeah, and Jesus and his disciples were of one Accord.

They got fined for overloading.

Foop
Profile for Foop
Re: 2 things I don't quite get [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-30-2010 18:05
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Nick Graves wrote:
Yeah, and Jesus and his disciples were of one Accord.

They got fined for overloading.



What if it was the JDM spec wagon, wouldn't most of them fit like some college kids would with the old Accord wagon?

^_^


 
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