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TOV Forums > RL / Legend > > Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?

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rkn
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When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-31-2009 09:38
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When is the ALL-NEW (not a MMC) RL really due .. MY 2011, 2012 or later and the actual calendar year? Also from a previous news posting by Jeff as part of Acura's "Smart Luxury" initiative he mentioned that the RL will be a hybrid. I took that statement as that RL will only be available as a hybrid model.. Is that true or was that misimplied.. ie: RL will be available as both a standard ICE and ICE/Electic hybrid model ?
CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-31-2009 11:55
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I don't think anyone really knows when the next generation RL will debut since Ito has canceled and switched around a lot of product development.

As far as an RL hybrid goes, I could see Acura offering such a car but not ONLY in hybrid form. The lack of drivetrain options has always been a large part of the RL's issues so if Acura once again offered 1 drivetrain package, well I think we already know the outcome. I'm unsure of the exact reason Honda hasn't let Acura produce a true top of the line sport/luxury flagship (AWD/RWD/FWD or whatever) but they need to stop playing around and get down to business as the competition is fierce. Acura really needs to decide what segment the RL should compete in as the sedan lineup desperately needs some diversity.


~Patrick

superchg
Profile for superchg
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-31-2009 11:57
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rkn wrote:
When is the ALL-NEW (not a MMC) RL really due .. MY 2011, 2012 or later and the actual calendar year? Also from a previous news posting by Jeff as part of Acura's "Smart Luxury" initiative he mentioned that the RL will be a hybrid. I took that statement as that RL will only be available as a hybrid model.. Is that true or was that misimplied.. ie: RL will be available as both a standard ICE and ICE/Electic hybrid model ?

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the news!

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-31-2009 15:49
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CivicB18 wrote:
I don't think anyone really knows when the next generation RL will debut since Ito has canceled and switched around a lot of product development.

As far as an RL hybrid goes, I could see Acura offering such a car but not ONLY in hybrid form. The lack of drivetrain options has always been a large part of the RL's issues so if Acura once again offered 1 drivetrain package, well I think we already know the outcome. I'm unsure of the exact reason Honda hasn't let Acura produce a true top of the line sport/luxury flagship (AWD/RWD/FWD or whatever) but they need to stop playing around and get down to business as the competition is fierce. Acura really needs to decide what segment the RL should compete in as the sedan lineup desperately needs some diversity.


~Patrick




Economics is the reason. They don't have the market to justify the expense. Sad, but true.

I am curious to see what they come up with, although I am not holding my breath.

aznxthuggie
Profile for aznxthuggie
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-31-2009 16:58
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owequitit wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't think anyone really knows when the next generation RL will debut since Ito has canceled and switched around a lot of product development.

As far as an RL hybrid goes, I could see Acura offering such a car but not ONLY in hybrid form. The lack of drivetrain options has always been a large part of the RL's issues so if Acura once again offered 1 drivetrain package, well I think we already know the outcome. I'm unsure of the exact reason Honda hasn't let Acura produce a true top of the line sport/luxury flagship (AWD/RWD/FWD or whatever) but they need to stop playing around and get down to business as the competition is fierce. Acura really needs to decide what segment the RL should compete in as the sedan lineup desperately needs some diversity.


~Patrick




Economics is the reason. They don't have the market to justify the expense. Sad, but true.

I am curious to see what they come up with, although I am not holding my breath.


Really? Here are sales numbers for last month for the segment the RL supposed to compete in:
E Class 4,824; +113%
5series 3,462; +18.3%
DTS 1,408; +9.4%
GS 596; -10.1%
A6 527; -26.5%
M 416; -64.9%
RL 176; -18.2%

The E class and 5 series seem to be doing fine. Everything else.. not so much. The point is there is still a market for it, acura just hasn't found a way to lure buyers away from its competition.

Spearsoft
Profile for Spearsoft
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-31-2009 19:13
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aznxthuggie wrote:
owequitit wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't think anyone really knows when the next generation RL will debut since Ito has canceled and switched around a lot of product development.

As far as an RL hybrid goes, I could see Acura offering such a car but not ONLY in hybrid form. The lack of drivetrain options has always been a large part of the RL's issues so if Acura once again offered 1 drivetrain package, well I think we already know the outcome. I'm unsure of the exact reason Honda hasn't let Acura produce a true top of the line sport/luxury flagship (AWD/RWD/FWD or whatever) but they need to stop playing around and get down to business as the competition is fierce. Acura really needs to decide what segment the RL should compete in as the sedan lineup desperately needs some diversity.


~Patrick




Economics is the reason. They don't have the market to justify the expense. Sad, but true.

I am curious to see what they come up with, although I am not holding my breath.


Really? Here are sales numbers for last month for the segment the RL supposed to compete in:
E Class 4,824; +113%
5series 3,462; +18.3%
DTS 1,408; +9.4%
GS 596; -10.1%
A6 527; -26.5%
M 416; -64.9%
RL 176; -18.2%

The E class and 5 series seem to be doing fine. Everything else.. not so much. The point is there is still a market for it, acura just hasn't found a way to lure buyers away from its competition.



Well, they have... sort of. That's your TL.

The RL was left behind, but the intended market for the new RL will be the 7, S, LS territory. Of course, the numbers aren't that much better for them, but a strong flagship, could bump Acura's sales closer towards the top, perhaps up to the 12k/month range(through floor traffic).
Something like that would be quite an achievement given the economy.

On a bit of a side note, it's important to understand that current sales are the norm, there is no going back to 2006 numbers, because they were artificial. The economic "CRASH" was simply a bubble burst, which is a readjustment. So, expect car makers to work around these realistic numbers, where not everybody can afford a 40k + car.

TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-18-2010 19:52
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I hope that we hear something soon. I knew the 5 year cycle was scraped when the extensive 2009 MMC came out: no way they were going to do all the work for only 1 model year. Last year, there was the RWD test mule that suggested 2011 was gonna be the FMC but then the economy & sales went bad ......

I fully expect the next generation to go up market some. The current TL kind of straddles the 3series/Cclass & 5series/Eclass line & so the RL will probably straddle the 5series/Eclass & 7series/Sclass line.

I am starting to doubt that 2011 will be the year as we have yet to see any spy shots. I hope that they hurry up tho bc I am going to have to replace my TSX soon & all I want is a 6 speed transmission & ventilated seats in my next ride (in addition to the usual) & I am not yet sold on the ZDX ...

Please let there be a hybrid option & not a hybrid .... period.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2010 00:19
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aznxthuggie wrote:
owequitit wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't think anyone really knows when the next generation RL will debut since Ito has canceled and switched around a lot of product development.

As far as an RL hybrid goes, I could see Acura offering such a car but not ONLY in hybrid form. The lack of drivetrain options has always been a large part of the RL's issues so if Acura once again offered 1 drivetrain package, well I think we already know the outcome. I'm unsure of the exact reason Honda hasn't let Acura produce a true top of the line sport/luxury flagship (AWD/RWD/FWD or whatever) but they need to stop playing around and get down to business as the competition is fierce. Acura really needs to decide what segment the RL should compete in as the sedan lineup desperately needs some diversity.


~Patrick




Economics is the reason. They don't have the market to justify the expense. Sad, but true.

I am curious to see what they come up with, although I am not holding my breath.


Really? Here are sales numbers for last month for the segment the RL supposed to compete in:
E Class 4,824; +113%
5series 3,462; +18.3%
DTS 1,408; +9.4%
GS 596; -10.1%
A6 527; -26.5%
M 416; -64.9%
RL 176; -18.2%

The E class and 5 series seem to be doing fine. Everything else.. not so much. The point is there is still a market for it, acura just hasn't found a way to lure buyers away from its competition.




You are taking what I say out of context. What a surprising strategy for you.

Except that Acura only sells 200 cars a month maybe. The rest of those sales are mostly legacy sales to people who only want a Benz or who only want a Bimmer, because that is what they buy. Look at the differential between those two models and everything else. It isn't because they are that superior.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2010 00:35
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Spearsoft wrote:
aznxthuggie wrote:
owequitit wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't think anyone really knows when the next generation RL will debut since Ito has canceled and switched around a lot of product development.

As far as an RL hybrid goes, I could see Acura offering such a car but not ONLY in hybrid form. The lack of drivetrain options has always been a large part of the RL's issues so if Acura once again offered 1 drivetrain package, well I think we already know the outcome. I'm unsure of the exact reason Honda hasn't let Acura produce a true top of the line sport/luxury flagship (AWD/RWD/FWD or whatever) but they need to stop playing around and get down to business as the competition is fierce. Acura really needs to decide what segment the RL should compete in as the sedan lineup desperately needs some diversity.


~Patrick




Economics is the reason. They don't have the market to justify the expense. Sad, but true.

I am curious to see what they come up with, although I am not holding my breath.


Really? Here are sales numbers for last month for the segment the RL supposed to compete in:
E Class 4,824; +113%
5series 3,462; +18.3%
DTS 1,408; +9.4%
GS 596; -10.1%
A6 527; -26.5%
M 416; -64.9%
RL 176; -18.2%

The E class and 5 series seem to be doing fine. Everything else.. not so much. The point is there is still a market for it, acura just hasn't found a way to lure buyers away from its competition.



Well, they have... sort of. That's your TL.

The RL was left behind, but the intended market for the new RL will be the 7, S, LS territory. Of course, the numbers aren't that much better for them, but a strong flagship, could bump Acura's sales closer towards the top, perhaps up to the 12k/month range(through floor traffic).
Something like that would be quite an achievement given the economy.

On a bit of a side note, it's important to understand that current sales are the norm, there is no going back to 2006 numbers, because they were artificial. The economic "CRASH" was simply a bubble burst, which is a readjustment. So, expect car makers to work around these realistic numbers, where not everybody can afford a 40k + car.



The housing was a bubble, but everything else was not so much.

Like all economic cycles, there has to be a downswing to restore the purchasing power of the dollar. Unfortunately, housing was so important in our economy, that when it burst, there was no hope for everything else. That is distinctly different than the tech bubble, which did damage but not nearly as much because it wasn't as widespread. Of course, as soon as those mortgage products were being offered, it didn't take a lot of brain power to figure out that as soon as the balloon payments came due, there were going to be major, catastrophic and widespread issues.

It may take awhile to work itself out, but eventually, it will probably surpass 2006 levels overall. What shifts will exist in the sentiments of consumers is still unknown though, so even though things return back to where they were, it is anyone's guess what they will be buying.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: When is the all new RL really due and will it be all hybrid?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2010 00:46
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TSX69 wrote:
I hope that we hear something soon. I knew the 5 year cycle was scraped when the extensive 2009 MMC came out: no way they were going to do all the work for only 1 model year. Last year, there was the RWD test mule that suggested 2011 was gonna be the FMC but then the economy & sales went bad ......

I fully expect the next generation to go up market some. The current TL kind of straddles the 3series/Cclass & 5series/Eclass line & so the RL will probably straddle the 5series/Eclass & 7series/Sclass line.

I am starting to doubt that 2011 will be the year as we have yet to see any spy shots. I hope that they hurry up tho bc I am going to have to replace my TSX soon & all I want is a 6 speed transmission & ventilated seats in my next ride (in addition to the usual) & I am not yet sold on the ZDX ...

Please let there be a hybrid option & not a hybrid .... period.



There was a question an answer session with ITO at Detroit. There is a thread on here about it somewhere.

Anyway, he was specifically asked about the cancellation of RWD and V8. He said that given the realities of the post Lehman Bros collapse and the focus on CO2 emmissions, the V8 was no longer feasible. Then he went on about how they were designing a new POWERTRAIN for the car, but didn't mention anything about the chassis.

So perhaps, I am being woefully optimistic that there is still hope for that mule that was running around about a year ago. It just seems silly for them to spend that cash on a perfectly good chassis, that met all of the requirements for the next RL, and then scrap it for a V8. It would be much more sensical to design a new powertrain for it, and perhaps that is what they are doing. Of course, if that chassis then filters down to the next TL and TSX, they can pretty much eliminate the Honda/Acura overlap problem, it would give them the styling and dynamic base they need, and if leveraged on all 3 models, it would allow roughly 120,000 sales per year at current levels, which may bring the unit cost down to a sustainable level. Or, they may still intend to launch Acura overseas eventually.

Perhaps the new V6 + Hybrid will be replacing what was once an NA V8. If the V6 is light enough, then it could come in at a fairly similar weight to the V8, with a similar output. Or perhaps they are going to boost the V6, and or lighten the chassis, or both. He also said in that interview that he believed the original NSX was the way forward, and that they would approach Acura products with the same engineering mentality that lead to it being light weight and highly advanced. He then mentioned power to weight, which I don't disagree with.

Of course, that could just be my last shred of hope, but time will tell.


 
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