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  TOV News > Honda's Insight Concept Makes its World Debut > > Re: Targeted fuel economy same as Civic Hybrid?

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JIRZLEE
Profile for JIRZLEE
Re: Targeted fuel economy same as Civic Hybrid? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-04-2008 06:59
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dezoris wrote:
As a fellow Insight owner I don't think most people grasp this concept. The best part of the Insight is the low weight and engine, though under powered.

The IMA system is a total hindrance.
Dumping the IMA system in favor of standard 12 volt alternator and some type of auto stop spin up motor would still save weight and the car would be better overall and still get the best MPG possible.

The current Civic Hyrbid has the most advance fuel efficient petrol motor in production in my opinion. The problem?
Its in a 2800lb car. Its completely backwards.

The IMA system would not be needed if they used current motor technology like that of the Civic Hybrid and used in it a car sub 2000 lbs.



That simple huh? Its as easy as cutting 800-900lbs off the curb weight of a Civic. That's nearing 1/3 of the car. Keep in mind the car should seat 4+ people, follow Honda's safety for everyone philosophy, and be affordable to the masses. That means no aluminum chassis and less than $20K.
I think the weight saved by ditching the IMA and then adding back the alternator and start motor would be trivial at best and not offer as good of city mileage or the power boost on take off. The recent 50% cost reduction in the IMA system is also notable.
This is not meant to be the original Insight, and not many expected it to be. The original formula appealed to very few unfortunately.

HONDA AFVM
Profile for HONDA AFVM
Re: Targeted fuel economy same as Civic Hybrid? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-04-2008 09:34
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Cj wrote:
dezoris wrote:
I will believe it when I see it. 15k is stretching it.
Thats Fit territory which won't happen.


Stevens24 wrote:
Pricing will be 15-18k according to what we've been told by Honda. So at that price I don't anticipate an issue with sales


It's going to be $18,864

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=792749

.


Plus Destination which by that time will be $690, so base list we can expect to be $19,554. I was around $800 off on my guess, I guesses $20,300 or something. The "mirror" of the Civic Hybrid MPG is a little of a disapointment, but at a starting price of $19,500 who wouldn't want it. I say it's a home run. With the new Energy bill coming down the pike with more tax credits it will be a winner.

jero
Profile for jero
Re: Targeted fuel economy same as Civic Hybrid? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-05-2008 03:01
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Honda doesn't care about beating Toyota. Honda cares about pricing, safety, and the CAFE avg.

Having said that, it is a pipe dream that you are going to be able to get one of these from the dealer for MSRP in the first year. The dealers will gouge it with all but certain dealer add ons, it will essentially be in the 23K range +TTL. Not exactly the 18K we all dream about, but much less than the 28K for a Prius.

I must say, in the yuppie NW suburbs of chicago, I would say the Prius outnumbers any Honda hybrid by atleast 50:1

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Targeted fuel economy same as Civic Hybrid? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-05-2008 06:03
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Hondasrule wrote:
I think the key is affordability and hatch versatility. Granted, people who can or are willing to spend whatever the most fuel efficient car costs will not get the Insight for its fuel efficiency alone, but for anyone who's budget is close to what this car will cost, fuel efficiency might still be the main reason to purchase - not delivering the highest MPG doesn't mean is not up there.
danielgr wrote:
[I...by renouncing to have "class-leading mpg figures" Honda is making a risky bet, which is the one that normal people are going to start buying hybrids.

For this car to be a success without improving on the Civic Hybrid mileage it will really need to:
- Be a great car by itself, not a car to buy "because of its fuel economy", but because of it being good at filling people's needs.

Well, to me, a car with "good quality, reliability, great versatility and fuel economy at a low price" is the kind of car that "would fill most people's needs".

Maybe my quote wasn't clear enough, what I meant to say is that there are many people buying "Prius" for reasons like:
- "it has the highest EPA rating" (since the Insight disapeared).
- "I am green and feel better when riding along SUV's on the street on my Prius".
And that's regardless of the Prius being the car they really needed/liked for their daily lives and/or any kind of price comparison. Those sales are there "because of the Prius stated fuel economy", not "because of the car experience itself". No matter how dedicated this Inisight is, if FE falls bellow the Prius', it won't have the "appeal" of the "I'm the greenest man on Earth" tag. So Honda will rely once more in people being "rational", which means "buying a great product" instead of a "symbol".

Hope this long explanation made my point clearer.

HONDA AFVM
Profile for HONDA AFVM
Re: Targeted fuel economy same as Civic Hybrid? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-05-2008 10:35
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jero wrote:
Honda doesn't care about beating Toyota. Honda cares about pricing, safety, and the CAFE avg.

Having said that, it is a pipe dream that you are going to be able to get one of these from the dealer for MSRP in the first year. The dealers will gouge it with all but certain dealer add ons, it will essentially be in the 23K range +TTL. Not exactly the 18K we all dream about, but much less than the 28K for a Prius.

I must say, in the yuppie NW suburbs of chicago, I would say the Prius outnumbers any Honda hybrid by atleast 50:1


WRONG! jero My dealer will sell them at MSRP w/o add ons. So if interested and in Cleveland hts Ohio, you have your Insight @ list price. All is not lost in the Mid west, some of us still deal with ethics and the customers best interest in mind.


 
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