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TOV Forums > TSX > > Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?

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snail415
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98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-18-2008 14:21
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Hello all,

I attempted to post this thread earlier, but it didn't seem to work. If the same thread arrives later, please disregard and use this one.

I currently own my 4th Honda Civic, and if you're familiar with the 96-00 LX models, you have an idea of what slow really is. It's practical and dirt cheap, but these days of tolerance are running out. I'm looking within a year or so to consider the purchase of a 2006 TSX 6-speed. The value of them will surely change as the newer model arrives, and look to be a great value.

Upon going to the VA Beach Auto & Truck Show recently, I was amazed at how I kept returning to the TSX on display. I 'cross shopped' bigger, faster and arguably more well-rounded cars such as the CTS, G35 and TL. The BMW 3-series, despite its attributes was cold and clinical to the eye. I was very surprised how much I kept saying to myself "Nope". Just one look at the options and pricing, and I never returned. If I don't replace my car, I'd definately score a new Accord for the wife. But there's no way in hell I'm staying with the Civic for another year or so. I've just outgrown it.

I was turned on to the TSX for its ability to provide more than enough features standard, evident refinement, good reviews on handling, and practicality. Would I buy an '08? No. Not enough difference on paper. I'd keep that 5-7k to myself for a wheel and tire upgrade, etc. Besides, there's the Hondata fix for the '06, correct?

But the issue once again arises... is the car like the Civic Si, where you have to be commited to the drive? Do you have to drive it like you're mad at it do get going? I have not driven a TSX, but comparing it to my current car which has about 110hp, I have a hard time imagining this being the case...I gotta row through 3 gears to pass anything moving at a constant speed, and after nearly 4 years of ownership I still reach for a 6th gear. Long drives are painful. But, it's paid for and has been.

I don't need sub-6 second 0-60 anything. No one really drives like that on a daily basis unless they can't get out of bed. I want an entertaining, accomodating, and rewarding car that fits like a glove, for around 22K. I looked at the Mazdaspeed3, and while I think it would be a very fun car, I know the wife ain't going for it. Neither is the little guy, who won't fit after long.

Anyhow, I would like any current or previous TSX owners of an '06+ model to discuss their thoughts when comparing it to the car it replaced. If I'm gonna jump back into the realm of car payments again, I wanna enjoy every trip I take.

Thanks!

VR,
Justin

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-18-2008 14:53
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snail415 wrote:
Hello all,

I attempted to post this thread earlier, but it didn't seem to work. If the same thread arrives later, please disregard and use this one.

I currently own my 4th Honda Civic, and if you're familiar with the 96-00 LX models, you have an idea of what slow really is. It's practical and dirt cheap, but these days of tolerance are running out. I'm looking within a year or so to consider the purchase of a 2006 TSX 6-speed. The value of them will surely change as the newer model arrives, and look to be a great value.

Upon going to the VA Beach Auto & Truck Show recently, I was amazed at how I kept returning to the TSX on display. I 'cross shopped' bigger, faster and arguably more well-rounded cars such as the CTS, G35 and TL. The BMW 3-series, despite its attributes was cold and clinical to the eye. I was very surprised how much I kept saying to myself "Nope". Just one look at the options and pricing, and I never returned. If I don't replace my car, I'd definately score a new Accord for the wife. But there's no way in hell I'm staying with the Civic for another year or so. I've just outgrown it.

I was turned on to the TSX for its ability to provide more than enough features standard, evident refinement, good reviews on handling, and practicality. Would I buy an '08? No. Not enough difference on paper. I'd keep that 5-7k to myself for a wheel and tire upgrade, etc. Besides, there's the Hondata fix for the '06, correct?

But the issue once again arises... is the car like the Civic Si, where you have to be commited to the drive? Do you have to drive it like you're mad at it do get going? I have not driven a TSX, but comparing it to my current car which has about 110hp, I have a hard time imagining this being the case...I gotta row through 3 gears to pass anything moving at a constant speed, and after nearly 4 years of ownership I still reach for a 6th gear. Long drives are painful. But, it's paid for and has been.

I don't need sub-6 second 0-60 anything. No one really drives like that on a daily basis unless they can't get out of bed. I want an entertaining, accomodating, and rewarding car that fits like a glove, for around 22K. I looked at the Mazdaspeed3, and while I think it would be a very fun car, I know the wife ain't going for it. Neither is the little guy, who won't fit after long.

Anyhow, I would like any current or previous TSX owners of an '06+ model to discuss their thoughts when comparing it to the car it replaced. If I'm gonna jump back into the realm of car payments again, I wanna enjoy every trip I take.

Thanks!

VR,
Justin



I recently purchased an '08 Si Sedan and I love it. But as a past owner (3 years), I still think the TSX (particularly the '06-up versions) is the best sedan Honda's ever offered, sporty or not. You do not have to drive it like you stole it at all - on the contrary - the K24 makes loads of torque from low rpms - you can short shift it all day long and still squirt through traffic. On the other hand, it's quite rewarding to rev it out and enjoy the rush to redline. It's not as exhilarating as the Si's K20Z3, but it's a lot more fun than the K24 that was in the '04 and '05 TSXs.

I paid less for my '08 Si with Navi than I did for my base TSX, so it's a smoking deal, but the TSX is a classier car all around. The TSX's seats are very comfortable and supportive. The chassis is just sublime. I prefer it with slightly stiffer spring and damper rates, but that's easy to fix (I used an a-spec suspension). The only drawback that I can point to is the TSX's lack of a limited-slip differential. The pony count falls a little bit shy of what I normally like, but I can (and did) live with it, but not having the limited-slip was something that I often lamented. Inside you get a fully automatic dual zone climate control system, memory seats (though I'd just as soon have fully adjustable manual seats) and a pretty decent stereo system. On the exterior, the TSX has timeless styling, and far better headlights (xenon) and I liked the added safety margin of the turn indicators in the side view mirrors. These pretty much eliminated any guesswork on the behalf of other drivers and the resulting awkward situations during freeway lane changes.

I strongly considered getting another TSX because I thoroughly enjoyed mine so much (the only reason I sold it was because somebody made me an offer I absolutely couldn't refuse), but knowing that the all-new ones are coming out in a few short months, I decided just to play it safe and go with the Si Sedan, which I know I will enjoy immensely and I feel pretty confident that it will retain its value very well. For somebody in your shoes, I very highly recommend that you stick with your instincts and get a nice pre-owned '06 (or newer) TSX.



Last edited by JeffX on 01-18-2008 15:46
snail415
Profile for snail415
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-18-2008 15:20
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Jeff,

Couldn't ask for more thorough advice. Thanks a lot for taking the time.

VR,
Justin

LudeLeRoy
Profile for LudeLeRoy
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-18-2008 18:28
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Jeff,

Hope I'm not hi-jacking but I am in somewhat similar position. I too having been eyeing the TSX since they first came out - I've followed them via TOV and simaler sites since the day they were released. I on the other hand am looking for an 04 or 05 simply because they are more in-line my desired price range & I'm used to their styling. I like what I hear engine-wise on the 06+ models but am not fond of the stock wheel and unsure of the new styling - I'd prefer and 04-05 w/Euro kit.

So my question for Jeff - you specifically singled-out the 06+ models. Is the engine night & day better?? Also what do you think about an 04 6MT w/Intake & hondata (headers too @ some point)? Does an 04 w/Hondata match a stock 06? Do you think an 06 w/hondata is proportionally better than a similarly modded 04?

My last car was a '94 H22 Lude w/ I/H/E and ran a 14.7 @ 95.xx if I recall...now I have unfortunately a crap-matic 99 V6 Accord coupe w/UR underdrive pullies. The Lude was a blast and I loved it the Accord not so much - mostly due to tranny & noseheavy & soft handling.

I like yourself see the fun-factor in the Si Sedans - however w/2 young kids I somehow feel like I wouldn't look right in the civic - I'm also not too fond of the rear wing & higher insurance - and overall I agree the TSX looks more classy and more timeless.

So performance wize can you compare your 04 TSX vs the 06 vs the Si in more detail? Thanks in advance!!

Karl O.
Profile for Karl O.
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-18-2008 19:17
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snail415 wrote:
I want an entertaining, accomodating, and rewarding car that fits like a glove, for around 22K.


Well, my car is a geezer '04, so your '06+ will be peppier.

Entertaining? I'd say so. Could it use more power? Sure. Does it need more power? Probably not. The chassis is great; if you drive a car with the OEM tires, don't hold the poor grip and tire drone against the poor car.

You can get a faster car for the money. A turbo Legacy or a MKV Jetta GLI will eat the TSX in a straight line. As will a V6 Altima or Accord or Camry.

But the TSX is fun. C/D once wrote that the TSX is like a puppy, it always wants to play. My g/f has a '06 Accord EX-L. Ehh. The TSX has personality. The Legacy and the GLI have personality, but neither car can match the refinement and fit and finish of the TSX. The others are appliances.

Accomodating? I'd say so. The TSX gives you all of the "luxury" features you "need." Homelink, decent stereo, XM, power seats, sweet looking IP, dual zone HVAC, HIDs, auto-off lights, etc etc. When I bought my TSX I optioned up a 325 sedan to the same level, it was $10k more. Sure, it's probably $10k more car- but so is the TL.

I have traveled with four people in the car + luggage, it can be a little tight as far as trunk space goes. With a baby- I dunno man, one more kid and you're gonna need an Odyssey.

The TSX is a comfortable cruiser. One night, I had to transport myself + (ex) wife + brother + moms from Birmingham, AL to Macon, GA. 240 miles of interstate cruising. We left AL at 11:00 pm EST (moms had to be in church at 8:00 am the next morning). My bro sat in front with me to keep me awake. Moms and wifey were asleep in the back seat after about 10 minutes.

They were surprised to awake at 1:35 am- at mom's house. Yup, 240 miles in 2.5 hours. We were cruising, for the most part, with the cruise control set at triple digits, with two blissfully unaware passengers in the back seat. Quite frankly, high speed cruising is where the TSX feels comfortable. The car wants to be on the autobahn.

But, it will putt around town just fine if that's what you want.

Rewarding? Hmm. That's complicated.

Dead-ass reliable.
Fun to drive.
Practical.
Looks great, in and out.
Affordable.
Resale.

Yeah, a Civic Si would be more fun. Sometimes. Hard to fault a Civic Si sedan. Sometimes.

Dunno, I've rambled on long enough. I've had 61k with my TSX, if you have any questions that haven't been answered let me know.




anime_man24
Profile for anime_man24
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2008 03:19
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Jeff wrote:
somebody made me an offer I absolutely couldn't refuse



JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-23-2008 21:01
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LudeLeRoy wrote:
Jeff,

Hope I'm not hi-jacking but I am in somewhat similar position. I too having been eyeing the TSX since they first came out - I've followed them via TOV and simaler sites since the day they were released. I on the other hand am looking for an 04 or 05 simply because they are more in-line my desired price range & I'm used to their styling. I like what I hear engine-wise on the 06+ models but am not fond of the stock wheel and unsure of the new styling - I'd prefer and 04-05 w/Euro kit.

So my question for Jeff - you specifically singled-out the 06+ models. Is the engine night & day better?? Also what do you think about an 04 6MT w/Intake & hondata (headers too @ some point)? Does an 04 w/Hondata match a stock 06? Do you think an 06 w/hondata is proportionally better than a similarly modded 04?

My last car was a '94 H22 Lude w/ I/H/E and ran a 14.7 @ 95.xx if I recall...now I have unfortunately a crap-matic 99 V6 Accord coupe w/UR underdrive pullies. The Lude was a blast and I loved it the Accord not so much - mostly due to tranny & noseheavy & soft handling.

I like yourself see the fun-factor in the Si Sedans - however w/2 young kids I somehow feel like I wouldn't look right in the civic - I'm also not too fond of the rear wing & higher insurance - and overall I agree the TSX looks more classy and more timeless.

So performance wize can you compare your 04 TSX vs the 06 vs the Si in more detail? Thanks in advance!!



the big difference between the '04 and '06 TSX is pretty much the pull at the top end, particularly after the VTEC transition. Where the '04 seemed to merely tolerate revving to the limiter, the '06 practically guns for it, and in the process feels more like a proper DOHC VTEC. Obviously, that's more to my liking. The '06 basically starts out around where you'd be with an intake, header, and hondata on an '04 (I hit around 192whp with those mods, but didn't like how loud it was with the one intake, so I went to another one which put me just under 190whp), so with mods it should be easily over 200whp.

Oh, I agree, the '04-'05 wheels are preferable to the '06-'08.

I have 2 kids (not so small any longer...) and they fit well in the Si. The K20Z3 is just a hoot - my favorite of the US-market K-series motors by far, and the LSD is the icing on that cake. As I recall, I was able to get a stock '07 Si coupe to run a 14.6 at the strip and the sedan shouldn't be too far behind that. The K20Z3 responds very nicely to mods - I'm expecting to be nudging or slightly surpassing 200whp with just a swap of the header and a hondata reflash.

snail415
Profile for snail415
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-24-2008 11:36
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Jeff,

How would you compare shift quality/transmission durability between the TSX and the Si? I think I recall quite a few threads where for the Si there are complaints with either cold shifting, or at least a desire to upgrade fluid. I'm aware of the dbw complaints, but it seems as if owners tolerate it.
How does this compare to the typical TSX shifting experience?

Also, lastly, I've seen/heard about a DIY intake mod for the TSX that is supposed to mimic the Icebox. Any positives or negatives on this practice? Is induction volume with either application kept in check?

VR,
Justin

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-24-2008 11:49
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snail415 wrote:
Jeff,

How would you compare shift quality/transmission durability between the TSX and the Si? I think I recall quite a few threads where for the Si there are complaints with either cold shifting, or at least a desire to upgrade fluid. I'm aware of the dbw complaints, but it seems as if owners tolerate it.
How does this compare to the typical TSX shifting experience?

Also, lastly, I've seen/heard about a DIY intake mod for the TSX that is supposed to mimic the Icebox. Any positives or negatives on this practice? Is induction volume with either application kept in check?

VR,
Justin



comparing the shift quality of the TSX's gear box to my '08 Si, it's comparable to the TSX's, which is one of my favorites.

Other Sis I've driven ('06 and '07 models), however, felt a little more vague and lighter than the TSX, and I would say I preferred the TSX's gearbox feel to those.

as for the TSX "icebox" mod - you can pull out the resonators on the stock airbox and maybe approximate the icebox, but I think the icebox's real gain comes from the foam filter element. As far as volume goes, I assume you mean from a sonic perspective - the difference in sound is there but it's pretty muted compared to a short ram open element intake, which sounds okay but is a terrible match for the character of the TSX.

snail415
Profile for snail415
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-24-2008 12:46
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Thanks Jeff.

As more info from the new TSX arrives, I'm sure that there will be numerous threads for it...but I'd love to read a follow-up to this discussion after weighing-in the difference from the '06 to the '09 model.

This is all a real head-scratcher to me- deciding on a very good used car, or waiting for what appears to be a new Honda product with exemplary build quality. I doubt the overall formula for the TSX will change much, looking at the Euro Accord's pics. And that's a good thing to me.

Christberg
Profile for Christberg
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2008 16:20
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Been a while since I posted here.

Ironically, I'm actually considering this same move- 98 Civic LX to a TSX, although right now I'm thinking 04.

The reason why is that although I love my little car to death, it's been broken into 3 times in the last 2 years and today's window smasher in my gated community, lighted, camera-ed apartment complex is probably the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" so to speak.

So, in addition to what I've heard here, I'd like to add the additional questions of:

1. How much harder is a stock TSX to steal stuff out of?
and
2. How much worse is the gas mileage?

sunnyrodeo
Profile for sunnyrodeo
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-01-2008 23:27
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Jeff
how does 06+ auto compare to 04 6spd as far as powertrain goes?
thanks

anime_man24
Profile for anime_man24
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-02-2008 11:57
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sunnyrodeo wrote:
Jeff
how does 06+ auto compare to 04 6spd as far as powertrain goes?
thanks




sunnyrodeo
Profile for sunnyrodeo
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-02-2008 14:27
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Ive only been able to test drive 07 auto so far and was wondering if 04 6spd is much faster than that becasue even 07 auto felt pretty slow. I am looking to get a used one and really would like to get 06+ but there really isnt many out there. Closest one was 76 mi away and was sold before i even got there so i might end up with older one. And i refused to test drive new 06+. I will be better off not knowing how 06+ is compared to olderones if i were to get 05 or04
SonyFever
Profile for SonyFever
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-03-2008 01:20
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Just a reminder, in addition to engine improvement the 06+ has MID, fog light, memory seat (since you and your wife might both drive it), and bluetooth which are worth considering.

If you are not in a hurry, in the 2nd half year there should be more 06+ TSX available in used market.

TSX is a hot used car, btw.

KevinB1098
Profile for KevinB1098
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2008 13:40
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Just wanted to chime in -- though not directly on point -- to repay help I received last March and April from this group.

I had a 1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue with a little more HP and torque than the 2006+ TSX, but the Olds had typical (boat-like) handling. It was actually a very reliable -- albeit boring -- car. I struggled with buying the TSX, especially considering upcoming model change (with then-unknown announcement timing and specs) and after great help from Jeff and others went for a test drive and bought same day.

With almost a year under my belt, I absolutely love my 2007 6MT Navi TSX. "Fun" is the word that keeps coming to mind. You don't have to pound it to have fun, but it certainly doesn't mind if you do. Lots of fun getting to speed and holding speed through corners. And I'm at the point in my life where I expect my cars to display a little luxury, which this does in spades.

I'm not a crazy driver. I'm a father of two young girls who love dad's "fun car" and we fit fine. Car is reliable, gets decent mileage, and is every bit as rewarding as I'd hoped. As far as size, it seems the TSX has nearly as much usable interior room (less a little back seat legroom) than the much-larger Intrigue. Good use of space in that TSX...

I had cross-shopped the 3-series, but I just couldn't justify the cost differential (and fretted about reliability as well). Briefly considered the G35, as well as Civic Si (which seemed a little too "young" for this 36YO).

We come from different drives, but I can tell you I love my TSX. I can't compare its drive to that of the Si, but the TSX is a hoot and still dresses up nice. My recollection is 2006 and 2007 TSX models are nearly identical (only tire pressure monitor added?).

So if you're looking for a fun, reliable, affordable car, you've found the right one. Best of luck in your decision!

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2008 15:07
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sunnyrodeo wrote:
Ive only been able to test drive 07 auto so far and was wondering if 04 6spd is much faster than that becasue even 07 auto felt pretty slow. I am looking to get a used one and really would like to get 06+ but there really isnt many out there. Closest one was 76 mi away and was sold before i even got there so i might end up with older one. And i refused to test drive new 06+. I will be better off not knowing how 06+ is compared to olderones if i were to get 05 or04


have you read this article?
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?page_number=1&article_id=493583http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?page_number=1&article_id=493583

sunnyrodeo
Profile for sunnyrodeo
Re: 98 Civic LX to 06 TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-07-2008 20:30
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thanks
I re-read it again
First time I read it, I kinda skimmed thru the section you mentioned about auto and assumed you were comparing auto to auto.


 
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