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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?

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RSM1
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One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 18:22
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Now that Ross Brawn is on-board, Honda F1 appears to be much more appealing option to Fernando Alonso. Will there be another surprise in store? Regardless, '08 is a going to be a great season!
Neilap
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Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 18:34
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I hope not! We do not have driver issues. JB is a winner and RB is great support staff ;).
JMU R1
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Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 18:43
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I seriously hope not too. Alonso is fast no doubt but I don't want someone one the team who has talked trash about Honda in the past, in addition to blackmailing his team principal and demanding #1 status over his teammate when his teammate was ahead of him in the points. Jenson has worked too hard and paid more than his due through the thick and thin with Honda. Honda would be stabbing him in the back to hire Alonso on as #1.
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 19:05
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RSM1 wrote:
Now that Ross Brawn is on-board, Honda F1 appears to be much more appealing option to Fernando Alonso. Will there be another surprise in store? Regardless, '08 is a going to be a great season!


I think you are greatly under-estimating the task ahead of HF1. Even with Brawn, it will be a long, hard road to get anywhere near the top. Let's not forget that it took Newey, Brawn and Schumacher 4 years to win the World Driver's Championship at Ferrari. Hopefully it will not take that long to become truely competitive, but you never know. So dont expect too much next season.

rayyu882
Profile for rayyu882
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 20:15
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I personally don't think Ross Brawn would want to bring Alonso onboard at this time. He would probably want to work with Jenson and Rubens for this first year. 2009 may be an option to bring in a different driver. The only risk would be if you miss the chance to get Alonso, will he be available for you to get in the future or not.

I personally admire Alonso's talent, Hamilton won't be this good this pass season if Alonso wasn't there at all. But he is a distraction to McLaren, now will he be a distraction to his next time? Hard to say...

Ray

moo_kill
Profile for moo_kill
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 21:30
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wow you guys are talking like FA would actually even consider driving with HF1.

no chance.

Souchirou
Profile for Souchirou
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 22:01
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I think I'm putting my head up for strangulation here knowing full well how almost everyone has expressed and explained in detail why Alonso should never come to Honda.

But I disagree.

I think if Alonso does join HondaF1, it could only mean a positive. Like all of you out there who bother about reading anything under the "professional motorsports" section, I read F1 updates as if I'm reading the paper.
We've all read the Alonso "needs to be treated like a champ", "Alonso's not a team player" and "Alonso talked bad shizz bout Honda". Thing is, that fella drives. and boy is he good at doing just that. Taking into account how favoured Hamilton was, maybe McLaren purposely made him look bad. The possibilities and politics are endless in the world of journalism. or any job for that matter no? And honestly, he is the only single person to be able to step on the most number of toes in one season talking shizz he makes bernie look good, well almost.
That fella has hot ass blood running through his veins. He's ambitious and competitive. Yeah he's not perfect but neither is anyone else really and I personally think he's matured quite a bit over the past year itself. To make things harder for me, I actually disliked him from the start.
Truth be told, and I have to be honest, I'd think a Button-Alonso pairing would just be that lil more exciting to watch then the current pairing no?

hey, its only my two cents worth.
cheers yall.
oh and regarding brawn's signing surprise (thought the telegraph was trying to gain readership), its the most exciting news from HondaF1. ever.


RSM1
Profile for RSM1
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 22:43
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I think there's a good chance FA would join Honda. Let's looks at the possibilities:

Ferrari: Both driver seats filled

McLaren: Reason he left.

Renault: Good possibility, but it's like going back to an old girlfriend

Williams: They can't afford him

Red Bull: Slight chance but no proven success in F1, mid-pack team every year

STR: No chance

BMW: Seats filled

Toyota: Good chance, able to afford him, but no racing heritage, another mid-pack team

Aguri: No chance

Force India: No chance

Honda F1: Lookin' really good with Brawn aboard.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2007 22:59
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No Alonso. The man is a cancer if he's not given #1 status. I doubt Honda would be so cold as to dump Jenson to #2 status after all the faith he's put in Honda. Alonso's talent is doubtless, but his personality makes me sick.

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 04:28
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If Nick Fry is to hire Alonso as HF1's driver, I'll take back all the good things I have said about him yesterday. I do NOT want Alonso driving a Honda, EVER. But that's my opinions of course.
HONDA FANATIC
Profile for HONDA FANATIC
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 05:06
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guys there is nothing wrong with Alonso at Honda. If he is told that he will be given equal machinery as Button then i guess both JB and Alonso would be happy and Honda never treats anyone as number 1. Of course being slow helps in this matter as no driver is motivated enough to claim no.1 spot.

Now if Alonso is onboard, then I guess the only problem I see is the way car will be devloped. I think Button drives the car 180 degrees out of phase than Alonso. One is smooth other is rough. Result would be confused designers. i think RA107 suffered due to Rubens wrong input as well during winter testing and maybe he pursuaded Honda to follow a different design approach rather than Button's smooth RA106. Our best bet is to give Button clear hand to devlop the car and the second driver just has to adapt to the car for the greater good of the team.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 05:41
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HONDA FANATIC wrote:

Now if Alonso is onboard, then I guess the only problem I see is the way car will be devloped. I think Button drives the car 180 degrees out of phase than Alonso. One is smooth other is rough. Result would be confused designers.[...]
Our best bet is to give Button clear hand to devlop the car and the second driver just has to adapt to the car for the greater good of the team.


I don't know where did you get those ideas, but to me Alonso is the one driver that drives more like Button in the whole paddock. Proof of it is that both excel in the wet, and that Alonso is one of the drivers with higher reliability (drive your car hard and it will break down easier...)

musicmanvin
Profile for musicmanvin
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 07:31
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haha no way is FA going to join the team.. because Fry already promised Button that he will do everything in his power to help him win the WDC, and getting Brawn was part of his plan.

So if FA joins the team he WILL have to play support role and hes not going to like that very much..

i honestly rather see Sato step up and race with Button

Neilap
Profile for Neilap
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 07:41
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I agree with HF, Alonso drives nothing like Jense. We also forget that fred was beaten by a rookie this year. LH made one mistake and it cost him big. Alonso looked amateurish in many of the races. Forget conspiracy theories Alonso is as fast as anyone but is mentally frail. Another thing, the driver's input in development is minimal. They have very sophisticated computers for that. In development drivers need to give great feedback and be consistent. They test the parts developed, they dont develop parts.
Tosa1962
Profile for Tosa1962
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 11:27
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Alonso is two times WDC besting Michael Schumacher and came close to winning 3rd WDC on a new team. He maybe outspoken, many may not like him, but he's the real deal.
That said... It would be bad to pair Alonso with any English based team. The Spanish -vs- English media frenzy has killed any chance of team harmony IMHO.

Paulie
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Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 12:42
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Given the new rules for 2008, If you put Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso in two identical cars, who do you think would come out on top? Votes anyone?

My vote would be Button!

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 12:59
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Neilap wrote:
I agree with HF, Alonso drives nothing like Jense. We also forget that fred was beaten by a rookie this year. LH made one mistake and it cost him big. Alonso looked amateurish in many of the races. Forget conspiracy theories Alonso is as fast as anyone but is mentally frail. Another thing, the driver's input in development is minimal. They have very sophisticated computers for that. In development drivers need to give great feedback and be consistent. They test the parts developed, they dont develop parts.

Com'on Neilap, you know yourself you aren't being fair nor objective at all. You simply don't like Alonso, and you are more than pissed off about your beloved LH not taking the championship, as well as your beloved McLaren getting so dirty in so much stuff this year.

About Alonso, you are talking about a guy that have made his debut in a Minardi, earned a better drive on his own merits, won a couple of world championships in an inferior car against one of the best drivers of all times, and failed to win its third champ in a row in an hostile team&environment with a car not many considered a title challenger after past season (and he would have if not because of some of the sanctions FIA imposed him related with his team_unease).
I agree on not discussing anymore on McLaren though.

Regarding his comparison with LH, I'm sure I'm not the one that needs to tell you how good LH is (rookie or not).

"Alonso looked amateurish and he drives nothing like Jenson..." all that mere statements out of your hate without any proper backing. I'm sure you may write a nice post on all your good reasons after this, but com'on... get over it. Don't get to obsessed, your hero (Lewis) will still soon be world champion if :
a) he is as good as you believe he is.
b) Alonso's input on McLaren was as useless as you believe it was.
c) McLaren cheating on Ferrari was as helpless as you believe it was.

All of that we will find out soon enough, starting in 2008 when Lewis will be leading the McLaren squad. In any case, since according to him he'll be there for life, we'll have plenty of time to watch him wining (there are not many better seats around).

Driver's input in development is minimal ? Com'on, again, measure your words... Nobody ever said Alonso was telling people at McLaren how to build a F1 car. You even said that yourself afterwards: "In development drivers need to give great feedback and be consistent." You perfectly know that feedback is essential for engineers to develop a fast car, that's what anyone has in mind. Even Honda openly admitted having hired RB because of his experience in helping developing a wining car (never for him being "hell-fast").

We've all been watching F1 for long enough, and I also know you Neilap have been here since the early days...
Anyway, do as you wish, go ahead bashing Alonso for his race-track performance if that makes you feel better. But personal integration aside, from a pure "performance-skill" point of view, Alonso is certainly one of the best assets any team could have, including Honda, and that's why they've opened their arms to him since the beginning, that's why Flavio is so mad at bringing him back... He is certainly not the only factor, but look at where was Renault before Alonso came, look where they got, and check where they are... Look at where McLaren was past year, it had been 3 years they didn't challenge for the drivers title, this year they got to the last race with both drivers on top (and sure Alonso isn't the only reason, but I hope you don't believe it was the rookie's input that helped them).

But anyway, unless Brown has an unexpected influence over him, Honda has never been one of the teams he'd like to drive for, so who cares...

rayyu882
Profile for rayyu882
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 13:52
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RSM1 wrote:
I think there's a good chance FA would join Honda. Let's looks at the possibilities:

Ferrari: Both driver seats filled

McLaren: Reason he left.

Renault: Good possibility, but it's like going back to an old girlfriend

Williams: They can't afford him

Red Bull: Slight chance but no proven success in F1, mid-pack team every year

STR: No chance

BMW: Seats filled

Toyota: Good chance, able to afford him, but no racing heritage, another mid-pack team

Aguri: No chance

Force India: No chance

Honda F1: Lookin' really good with Brawn aboard.



Renault also have a spy case on their hand at this time....

Honda: Seats are also filled...

Ray

rayyu882
Profile for rayyu882
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 14:04
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WongKN wrote:
If Nick Fry is to hire Alonso as HF1's driver, I'll take back all the good things I have said about him yesterday. I do NOT want Alonso driving a Honda, EVER. But that's my opinions of course.


I think the decision maybe up to Ross Brawn instead of Nick Fry in this case. Since Ross will be the one that will work with the drivers.

We still not sure what Ross Brawn will change in Honda F1. We all know that throughout many years of his career (Benetton and Ferrari), his teams has a clear #1 and a #2 driver system. If he also apply this method to Honda, I don't see Alonso will join at all. Ross Brawn worked with Rubens and as early back as 2004, he has been praising Jenson.

If he keep our both driver equal status (I personally think we only have this since Rubens joined), then maybe they will download Rubens to Super Aguri then free a seat for Alonso. Personally, I don't see that happening though!

Another way would be give up on Jenson and take Alonso... now how many of us here would do that??? I know I won't!!!

Ray

Neilap
Profile for Neilap
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 22:43
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I believe you take my statements too personally so I will refrain from carrying on a debate/argument with you in order to preserve the dignity of this thread.

You are one of the valued assets on this forum and have contributed a lot. I will accept your opinions as such and move on. I hope you will acknowledge your prejudices and realize they affect your posts more than anyone else here.

I rated LH long before F1, he has had to fight battles that you may never understand, especially when he started winning.

One thing I have to address...
Me saying FA drives nothing like JB was not meant as an affront. Both drivers are exceptional their styles are just different. Thats it!

If anyone was hoping for a real rebuttal I am sure my previous posts will offer a refresher course.

ciwai
Profile for ciwai
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2007 23:31
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sadlerau wrote:

I think you are greatly under-estimating the task ahead of HF1. Even with Brawn, it will be a long, hard road to get anywhere near the top. Let's not forget that it took Newey, Brawn and Schumacher 4 years to win the World Driver's Championship at Ferrari. Hopefully it will not take that long to become truely competitive, but you never know. So dont expect too much next season.



Ooooh thats a big misstatement. That should be Byrne, Brawn and Schumacher. Funny how no one remembers byrne. Perhaps brawn's appointment may lead him to come out of retirement--or maybe brawn's acumen will bring out the magic touch with the talent they have.

Personally I think alonso will end up back at renault. They miss him that badly, and with good reason.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2007 00:31
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ciwai wrote:
sadlerau wrote:

I think you are greatly under-estimating the task ahead of HF1. Even with Brawn, it will be a long, hard road to get anywhere near the top. Let's not forget that it took Newey, Brawn and Schumacher 4 years to win the World Driver's Championship at Ferrari. Hopefully it will not take that long to become truely competitive, but you never know. So dont expect too much next season.



Ooooh thats a big misstatement. That should be Byrne, Brawn and Schumacher. Funny how no one remembers byrne. Perhaps brawn's appointment may lead him to come out of retirement--or maybe brawn's acumen will bring out the magic touch with the talent they have.

Personally I think alonso will end up back at renault. They miss him that badly, and with good reason.




Oooooppppsss, and doh. :( I will now go into the nearest corner and sulk!

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2007 09:04
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Neilap wrote:
I agree with HF, Alonso drives nothing like Jense. We also forget that fred was beaten by a rookie this year. LH made one mistake and it cost him big. Alonso looked amateurish in many of the races. Forget conspiracy theories Alonso is as fast as anyone but is mentally frail. Another thing, the driver's input in development is minimal. They have very sophisticated computers for that. In development drivers need to give great feedback and be consistent. They test the parts developed, they dont develop parts.


I think Alonso expected himself to be better and wasn't during the first half of the season. He buckled down and did what he needed to do to catch up. Sure, he was a complainer at times, but I think it took him half the season to realize what he needed to do. He needed to concentrate on winning races rather than posting faster laps than his teammate. I hope he doesn't drive for Honda though. I like Button.

Neilap
Profile for Neilap
Re: One - Two Punch, FA to Honda?    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2007 22:01
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Yes, I like JB too. I think he is as good if not better than these other guys that have the privilage of fast cars. I am confident that given this years Mac he would have been champ. In his early days he, from time to time made silly mistakes. Now, JB is one of the 'steadiest' drivers in F1. His driving allows him to be easy on the machinery and yet still blindingly fast. If there is one knock on him, its that he does not cope well with a car that is bad to drive. It seems (to me) he does not adapt exceptionally well, but if the car is how he likes it he is as good if not better than the 'best'.

 
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