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  TOV Articles > First Dyno Test of 2008 Honda Accord EX-L V6 5AT > > Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium

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JeffX
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Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2007 13:05
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I ran the tank down pretty close to empty (11 miles distance to empty on the trip computer) and filled it up with 93 octane. I will be dyno testing it again at 2PM today and will post the results as soon as I can.
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2007 13:24
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Jeff wrote:
I ran the tank down pretty close to empty (11 miles distance to empty on the trip computer) and filled it up with 93 octane. I will be dyno testing it again at 2PM today and will post the results as soon as I can.

I think if you do go by distance to empty on the trip computer, down to zero, you are likely to still have about 3 gallons of fuel left. That is one thing in my (TL's) trip computer I haven't understood yet. On the last tank, I ran it down to "0" and a couple of miles beyond, but the car took only 14 gallons (on a 17.1 gallon tank). This was after 368 miles.

On the current tank, I have a total of 437 miles (distance to go), while the car seems to be averaging only a little better (indicated mileage is 27, usually it is around 25-26, but perhaps due to a little more highway driving on this tank since my average speed is slightly higher at 41 mph compared to 37-38 mph which is the norm).

Just run it dry, until the car stalls. :P

JeffX
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Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2007 15:07
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Wizard wrote:
Jeff wrote:
I ran the tank down pretty close to empty (11 miles distance to empty on the trip computer) and filled it up with 93 octane. I will be dyno testing it again at 2PM today and will post the results as soon as I can.

I think if you do go by distance to empty on the trip computer, down to zero, you are likely to still have about 3 gallons of fuel left. That is one thing in my (TL's) trip computer I haven't understood yet. On the last tank, I ran it down to "0" and a couple of miles beyond, but the car took only 14 gallons (on a 17.1 gallon tank). This was after 368 miles.

On the current tank, I have a total of 437 miles (distance to go), while the car seems to be averaging only a little better (indicated mileage is 27, usually it is around 25-26, but perhaps due to a little more highway driving on this tank since my average speed is slightly higher at 41 mph compared to 37-38 mph which is the norm).

Just run it dry, until the car stalls. :P



I was actually out in an area where there were tens of miles between exits so I didn't want to push my luck too much further. The car took a tick under 18.5 gallons (20 gal. tank).

It made another 4hp on the dyno today, so not a huge deal.

Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2007 16:55
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How many miles on the car now?
CarPhreakD
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Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2007 23:35
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So now the engine with premium seems to pull timing at around 200 RPM faster than previous (and it does seem confirmed because the "drop" at 6.3K RPM ends up with the engine running the same horsepower as when it ran regular)... but why is the engine doing so? It's not running an obscenely high compression ratio or anything. Any explanations? Or should we wait until a 6MT coupe is tested or so to compare results?
JeffX
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Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2007 08:10
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Wizard wrote:
How many miles on the car now?


It had around 850 miles on it for the 2nd dyno session.


JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2007 08:16
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CarPhreakD wrote:
So now the engine with premium seems to pull timing at around 200 RPM faster than previous (and it does seem confirmed because the "drop" at 6.3K RPM ends up with the engine running the same horsepower as when it ran regular)... but why is the engine doing so? It's not running an obscenely high compression ratio or anything. Any explanations? Or should we wait until a 6MT coupe is tested or so to compare results?


It appears that on premium fuel the engine computer begins to advance timing (compared to the regular unleaded) at around 5400rpms and it keeps it advanced until it suddenly "hears" knock at around 6200 rpms, and it suddenly retracts the timing back to the "normal" point (that we saw with regular unleaded) and the "normal" curve is restored by 6350 rpms.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2007 11:11
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Actually, I think the drop at high rpm is not timing pull. We saw this on other cars, even the Civic Si. It is what is called Catalytic Protection Mode or Cat Over Temp mode. No cooling air flowing over the exhaust and a hard pull results in high cat temps (which can be detected with the O2 sensor heater circuit). At this point, the ECU dumps extra fuel in a binary fashion to cool the cat.

This is an actual mode that exists on Hondas (and most other cars too). Doug from Hondata has found it in many Honda ECUs, and I know we can disable it on GM ECUs too.

The only way to get around it on the dyno is precool the cat a bit before making a run.

SC

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2007 11:37
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notyper wrote:
Actually, I think the drop at high rpm is not timing pull. We saw this on other cars, even the Civic Si. It is what is called Catalytic Protection Mode or Cat Over Temp mode. No cooling air flowing over the exhaust and a hard pull results in high cat temps (which can be detected with the O2 sensor heater circuit). At this point, the ECU dumps extra fuel in a binary fashion to cool the cat.

This is an actual mode that exists on Hondas (and most other cars too). Doug from Hondata has found it in many Honda ECUs, and I know we can disable it on GM ECUs too.

The only way to get around it on the dyno is precool the cat a bit before making a run.

SC



ahhh, yes, I do remember you mentioning this to me previously. I should revise the article text to reflect this. Maybe in the future I'll actually remember it...

Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2007 15:19
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Jeff wrote:
notyper wrote:
Actually, I think the drop at high rpm is not timing pull. We saw this on other cars, even the Civic Si. It is what is called Catalytic Protection Mode or Cat Over Temp mode. No cooling air flowing over the exhaust and a hard pull results in high cat temps (which can be detected with the O2 sensor heater circuit). At this point, the ECU dumps extra fuel in a binary fashion to cool the cat.

This is an actual mode that exists on Hondas (and most other cars too). Doug from Hondata has found it in many Honda ECUs, and I know we can disable it on GM ECUs too.

The only way to get around it on the dyno is precool the cat a bit before making a run.

SC



ahhh, yes, I do remember you mentioning this to me previously. I should revise the article text to reflect this. Maybe in the future I'll actually remember it...


That is, if you don't get any older.

Ignition_Key
Profile for Ignition_Key
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-18-2007 15:07
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Jeff wrote:
It made another 4hp on the dyno today, so not a huge deal.


As expected 4~5 more HP with Premium Fuel. So if the accord were rated Premium fuel it would be having 272~273HP.



Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2007 07:43
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Jeff wrote:
Wizard wrote:
How many miles on the car now?


It had around 850 miles on it for the 2nd dyno session.




I wouldn't be surprised if it picked up another 5 or more hp when some more miles are put on the car. I still felt like my Civic Si was a little tight at around 1000 miles. It really seemed to pick up at around 5000 or so miles.

HJV1
Profile for HJV1
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2007 15:00
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Wizard, I have the same issue. '04 TL 6-speed. Run it to "0", the low-fuel light on for a long time, and a fill-up is 14+ gallons. I'm afraid, though, to press further, not being sure whether it's an issue of inaccuracy, deliberate or otherwise, or perhaps a warning that there's actually less than 17 gallons in the tank, or available to the engine because of fuel pick-up issues or something.

Is it safe, do you think, to run another 30-40 miles if need be?

BTW, on trips from the Outer Banks of NC to my home in VA outside DC, I get a legitimate 31.5 mpg, and have done so a number of times. This is with my wife and dog in the car and about 100#s of luggage, without great effort to drive for mileage, often keeping up with traffic at 75 or so. I'd have to think I could approach 35 mpg in that car with an effort to do so. Do you have similar experiences?

chubzilla
Profile for chubzilla
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-06-2007 10:46
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what gear was used when this car was dynoed
TH23
Profile for TH23
Re: Going to re-dyno with Premium [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-11-2007 21:48
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3rd gear. But without SportShift, you can't hold 3rd gear without a kickdown below 60 mph or so, so we only get to see the 4200+ rpm range.

 
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