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  TOV News > Winding Road Reports Honda Stream Heading to US in 2009 > > Re: Perfect, but....

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Rooster1
Profile for Rooster1
Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 09:19
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The Stream would do well for Honda in NA as it exemplifies all that is good with Honda (packaging, performance, efficiency, etc.). However, Honda NEEDS to make it available with the third row and manual transmission, even if they are optional because otherwise it would be just another hatch. Also, the European diesel would be a nice differentiator.

Relative to the European Accord Tourer, that should come as an Acura model, much as the 4-door saloon comes to us as the TSX.

Frogger
Profile for Frogger
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 09:44
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In a climate of declining overall sales, Honda has to be smart... as much as I would like to see 3 row seating and a manual, it won't make sense for Honda (they just dropped the manual in the CR-V- much to everyone's disappointment- where a manual would be even more appropriate).

This will be a mom's car for sure... even though I will buy one as a dad, so don't expect Honda can count on anything beyond 5% sales for a manual. So it won't happen.

As for the 3rd row... just my guess (I saw the 1st generation Stream in person)... this is a 3rd row designed for Asian passengers. Will not cut it sizewise in the U.S. (think 3-row RAV4). The first two rows will seat 4 in U.S. (adults or car seats), perhaps 5 in Japan.

I would be very pleased if Honda chose to go for high MPG with existing small engines, take a chance on something different in the US besides continued engine bloat. This would distinguish it from the CR-V, lower posture, lighter, more aerodynamic. Can always option a bigger powertrain anyway.

As so many Hondas do, the Stream will trend set and will jump handily over the sales over similar existing offerings from Mazda for example.

Lecky
Profile for Lecky
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 10:02
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I would agree, I think the third row should be offered, even as an option... Even in the Mazda 5 the third row is cramped and there is no room behind the seats, but its a nice feature to have and this may be a deal breaker if its not available.


Honda-D
Profile for Honda-D
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 10:53
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I like the direction. But if Honda can't stick a K24 in it, the 3rd row would be pointless. You just can haul all that weight with R18/20.
80honda
Profile for 80honda
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 12:16
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Serious question here.
Do buyers really want a third row in such a small vehicle?
Do people really put humans in those third rows?
WHY

dbthompson
Profile for dbthompson
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 12:38
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80honda wrote:
Serious question here.
Do buyers really want a third row in such a small vehicle?
Do people really put humans in those third rows?
WHY


Let me guess, you don't have small kids?

Honda-D
Profile for Honda-D
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 13:36
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80honda wrote:
Serious question here.
Do buyers really want a third row in such a small vehicle?
Do people really put humans in those third rows?
WHY



This is for the sandwich generation. Mom, Dad in front, grandparents in middle, kids in the back.

80honda
Profile for 80honda
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 14:10
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Honda-D wrote:
80honda wrote:
Serious question here.
Do buyers really want a third row in such a small vehicle?
Do people really put humans in those third rows?
WHY



This is for the sandwich generation. Mom, Dad in front, grandparents in middle, kids in the back.


For that one time a year when the planets align, everybody gets together and decides to go out for dinner.......I think I'd rather just drive two cars and be comfortable.

Honda-D
Profile for Honda-D
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 14:21
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80honda wrote:
Honda-D wrote:
80honda wrote:
Serious question here.
Do buyers really want a third row in such a small vehicle?
Do people really put humans in those third rows?
WHY



This is for the sandwich generation. Mom, Dad in front, grandparents in middle, kids in the back.


For that one time a year when the planets align, everybody gets together and decides to go out for dinner.......I think I'd rather just drive two cars and be comfortable.



Sorry, I guess some people put their folks in homes instead of taking care of them as long as they could.

bien
Profile for bien
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 21:34
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We bring along our parents, our parents stay with us.

So its not only once in a year, most probably once or twice a week.

and the D17 in the previous gen Stream hauled the three rows easily.

My uncle has a 1.7 Stream, and its not too shabby i say.

why wud u need a K24 in the Stream? the K24 has served duty in the larger Odyssey. Too much power, and ur just wasting it anyways. and think about fuel economy that u guys have been bitching about.

/rant

Honda-D
Profile for Honda-D
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2007 22:23
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bien wrote:
We bring along our parents, our parents stay with us.

So its not only once in a year, most probably once or twice a week.

and the D17 in the previous gen Stream hauled the three rows easily.

My uncle has a 1.7 Stream, and its not too shabby i say.

why wud u need a K24 in the Stream? the K24 has served duty in the larger Odyssey. Too much power, and ur just wasting it anyways. and think about fuel economy that u guys have been bitching about.

/rant



K24 is more suitable for American life style

1) Automatic

2) Freeway driving

You can't have a vehicle carrying 6 people doing 0-60 over 10sec. It's not safe.

RayChuang
Profile for RayChuang
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-31-2007 01:51
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I think if we do see the Stream here in the USA, it will be sold as a five-seater with an optional third row for children.

While it would be nice to be able to keep the R20A engine for the US-market model, it's probably more likely that Honda will redesign the front engine bay so it could accommodate either the K24 gasoline engine (or it successor) or the i-CTDi turbodiesel engine. I can imagine a US-market Stream with a new 2.4-liter I-4 gasoline engine with the Advanced VTEC valvetrain rated at around 192-195 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) with a wide torque curve mated to a new 6AT automatic, with the result of good acceleration and good freeway fuel efficiency without having to use premium unleaded gasoline.

cyisalwayshungry
Profile for cyisalwayshungry
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-31-2007 08:04
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bien wrote:
We bring along our parents, our parents stay with us.

So its not only once in a year, most probably once or twice a week.

and the D17 in the previous gen Stream hauled the three rows easily.

My uncle has a 1.7 Stream, and its not too shabby i say.

why wud u need a K24 in the Stream? the K24 has served duty in the larger Odyssey. Too much power, and ur just wasting it anyways. and think about fuel economy that u guys have been bitching about.

/rant



How about I solve all of our problems. Put two different engines: R20 and K series. R20 for those who need the economy, and K24 for those who would want performance. If this car does not come with a K series engine and AWD, I am not getting it. I NEED AWD to get up the mountain snow in winter and I NEED the power to get me up there safely. Although I'd love to buy this car, I am very happy looking elsewhere if this vehicle does not serve my specific needs.

Rooster1
Profile for Rooster1
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-31-2007 12:29
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I would use this as my daily driver and a backup vehicle for our van. If the van is in the shop or has a problem and you must fit entire family into the second car, a 4 door sedan or standard hatchback/wagon doesn't cut it. I have three small kids. When we had just two, the sedan was adequate. If they only offer it with two rows of seats, the CR-V would be an overlapping option.

I am considering the Mazda5, but would much rather own a Stream with a third row.

(Honda, I hope you are monitoring these posts).

Blackraven
Profile for Blackraven
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2007 11:43
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I don't see Honda putting a K-series engine (esp. of 2.4 liter variety) if they are not willing to redesign the engine bay (to accomodate the bigger engine).

Honda Japan never designed the New Stream with a K-series engine in mind. It was the R-series engines that were supposed to be the only engines that would fit in the bonnet/hood of this vehicle.

More likely, they will go with the R-series engines. Not sure about the 2.2 i-CTDI diesel engine though since dunno how Honda can put their N22A1 diesel engine in it (given that Honda probably meant for the front to carry engines NOT EXCEEDING 2000cc in size).........but will see.

Definitely know K-series engines allowed for this vehicle (unless Honda Japan redesigns the engine bay........but even that requires some heavy convincing and persuasion)

bien
Profile for bien
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2007 12:31
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Blackraven wrote:
I don't see Honda putting a K-series engine (esp. of 2.4 liter variety) if they are not willing to redesign the engine bay (to accomodate the bigger engine).

More likely, they will go with the R-series engines. Not sure about the 2.2 i-CTDI diesel engine though since dunno how Honda can put their N22A1 diesel engine in it (given that Honda probably meant for the front to carry engines NOT EXCEEDING 2000cc in size).........but will see.


the N22 fits nicely under the bonnet of the Euro civic, why not the Stream eh?

cyisalwayshungry
Profile for cyisalwayshungry
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2007 14:39
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Blackraven wrote:
I don't see Honda putting a K-series engine (esp. of 2.4 liter variety) if they are not willing to redesign the engine bay (to accomodate the bigger engine).

Honda Japan never designed the New Stream with a K-series engine in mind. It was the R-series engines that were supposed to be the only engines that would fit in the bonnet/hood of this vehicle.

More likely, they will go with the R-series engines. Not sure about the 2.2 i-CTDI diesel engine though since dunno how Honda can put their N22A1 diesel engine in it (given that Honda probably meant for the front to carry engines NOT EXCEEDING 2000cc in size).........but will see.

Definitely know K-series engines allowed for this vehicle (unless Honda Japan redesigns the engine bay........but even that requires some heavy convincing and persuasion)



Wasn't the previous generation Stream the debut of i-VTEC in a K-series engine? Honda will need to extract more performance out of an R20 to keep up w/ the base model Mazda 3's ~150 torque and hp.

http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/




RayChuang
Profile for RayChuang
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2007 10:02
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cyisalwayshungry wrote:
Wasn't the previous generation Stream the debut of i-VTEC in a K-series engine? Honda will need to extract more performance out of an R20 to keep up w/ the base model Mazda 3's ~150 torque and hp.



Especially now that Mazda will offer starting the 2008 model year a 5AT transmission on the Mazda5, which will improve acceleration and highway fuel economy.

Blackraven
Profile for Blackraven
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2007 11:47
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cyisalwayshungry wrote:
Wasn't the previous generation Stream the debut of i-VTEC in a K-series engine? Honda will need to extract more performance out of an R20 to keep up w/ the base model Mazda 3's ~150 torque and hp.

http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/


R20 engine is 5 hp less than K20A3 but has more torque as well as a better torque curve and of course better fuel efficiency. Not to mention it being more friendly to the 7-speed CVT (compared to K20 based on Stepwagon reviews)

So yep, IMHO, the R20 engine suits this car better.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2007 11:50
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bien wrote:
Blackraven wrote:
I don't see Honda putting a K-series engine (esp. of 2.4 liter variety) if they are not willing to redesign the engine bay (to accomodate the bigger engine).

More likely, they will go with the R-series engines. Not sure about the 2.2 i-CTDI diesel engine though since dunno how Honda can put their N22A1 diesel engine in it (given that Honda probably meant for the front to carry engines NOT EXCEEDING 2000cc in size).........but will see.


the N22 fits nicely under the bonnet of the Euro civic, why not the Stream eh?



I agree; it's not as if the K has a hugely bulky VTEC head either.

If there IS a reson to exclude the K & N, it's probably production capacity or some other such reason.

cyisalwayshungry
Profile for cyisalwayshungry
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2007 13:04
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Blackraven wrote:
cyisalwayshungry wrote:
Wasn't the previous generation Stream the debut of i-VTEC in a K-series engine? Honda will need to extract more performance out of an R20 to keep up w/ the base model Mazda 3's ~150 torque and hp.

http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/


R20 engine is 5 hp less than K20A3 but has more torque as well as a better torque curve and of course better fuel efficiency. Not to mention it being more friendly to the 7-speed CVT (compared to K20 based on Stepwagon reviews)

So yep, IMHO, the R20 engine suits this car better.



Good catch. But in order for this car to compete with the Mazda 3, I think it needs to blow it out of the water. If it uses the R20, it still only has 140 ft-lbs (19.4 kgm or 190 Nm) of torque.

Type R-Positive
Profile for Type R-Positive
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2007 13:42
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I belt my dog into the third row (with a Batzi belt) and put the kids in the second row, with a Rocketbox on the roof... That third row is indispensible
vtecrocks
Profile for vtecrocks
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2007 15:22
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i say the R18 will be enough, make the stream into a matrix fighter aka 5-dr civic hatch and price it between the civic and the accord.

A more realistic view is that Honda will just export the car to the US as it is in JDM form (just make it left hand drive) since it is still in the middle of its MC.

Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2007 17:09
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vtecrocks wrote:
i say the R18 will be enough, make the stream into a matrix fighter aka 5-dr civic hatch and price it between the civic and the accord.

Not with 3200 lb curb weight. Understanding what sells in America... K24 should be it (or R24 if Honda could develop one). Anything less, it simply won't work, and press will be all over it. Short gearing won't address the issue either (and hurt fuel economy).

vtecrocks
Profile for vtecrocks
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2007 16:12
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Dont think we will c the K24 in here, although i certainly would like that to happen. If it is indeed coming over to our shore, it will just be the way it is in JDM (R20 or K20????)

i will seriously consider getting one as a replacement vehicle for my 99EL. Just hope that it will cost somewhere between the Civic and Accord.

bien
Profile for bien
Re: Perfect, but.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-11-2007 13:50
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Most of the Streams in S.E. Asia, mainly Singapore are of the 1.8 variant, all winged and kitted out.

i have only seen a few 2.0 RSZ's.

yeah, most are the R18's and most of the time, when they cross over to Malaysia, the car is fully loaded with family members and the maid in the 3rd row with the kids,

and shopping.

ive approached a few owners and asked them about the R18.

they say its ok, acceleration is ok too. tho it does sound rough higher up in the rev range.


 
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