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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: Honda and SAF1

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WongKN
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Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2007 04:11
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Well, if anyone is still doubtful that SAF1 is in reality Honda's 'B-team', check the following article in GP.COM

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19155.html

See, they can just switch test drivers between teams just like that.

Neilap
Profile for Neilap
Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2007 07:49
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B-team, I wonder to what extent! Obviously they are much closer than any other team that supplies motors to another. The relationship seems even closer than Red Bull and Toro Rosso.
What I would like to know is how much credit Honda should get in the pace of the SA. People are poking fun at Honda because SA seems faster than them but if its Honda's own doing then... well if its their own doing does it even make sense. *confused*

WongKN
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Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2007 09:08
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I think Honda would surely not be expecting to play '2nd fiddle' to their B-team if they have their own way but this is how it turns out. They had a shot at that P8 or even P7 but their drivers have to collide with each other while the SAF1 drivers stayed cool. So as you said, how ths situation turns out can in a big way, be said to be completely due to their own doing. Mind you, this is not the first time this season where the HF1 drivers 'interfered', unintentionally or not, with each other, to the detriment of the team's overall performance. Didn't JB admit to holding RB up at Melbourne, to the extent that they admitted that had it not have happened, RB 'could have' finished in the points ?

But, what's the point in that ? We can talk about the purity of the racing spirit and all those but we run a big danger of grasping at straws. And in the end, all we have left are talks about 'it could have been'. And it could have been a good season this year too except for that bad front wing and that mistake with the wind tunnel and this and that. I think many are already tired of all the 'it could have been', eventhough we are all still hardcore Honda supporters. It's taxing even on the most strongest of supporters.

But I feel this DO prove once and for all that Honda is fully behind SAF1 even if they make themselves look bad in the process (and they have already done it). In Sato's statement after he took P8 at Barcelona, he made liberal mentions of thanks to everyone INCLUDING the engineers at Honda R&D Tochigi. So this definitely proves that all those 'scoops' from PP about Honda withdrawing support to SAF1 or even intentionally withholding support so as to prevent SAF1 from doing better than them are total complete bullshit designed for nothing more than pure sensationalism and for whoring visitors hits.

s2ktaxi
Profile for s2ktaxi
Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2007 11:12
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Honda would be smart to leverage learnings from 2 teams instead of 1 in any case. Especially if they are really building a B car as we speak.
Bullwinkle
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Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2007 13:38
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There is no reason for Honda to hold back SAF1. Everyone knows they are a Honda Satellite, to use the motorcycle racing term. Also, everyone knows that Honda Tochigi is a large part of the development.

This year, the two teams are working on two separate (though derivative) cars in order to get around the Concorde agreement limitation on customer cars.

If customer cars become legal next year, then will the two engineering staffs combine forces and work more like the Motorcycle teams? In that cases, the Big team gets parts first, but everything that works filters down quicky. And if that happens, will the guys in Tochigi replace the guys in England if SAF1 continues to show more promise than HF1? Or will they start with the same basic car and take it in different directions?

It will be interesting to watch, and maybe the only thing worth watching in F1 this season.

lanceh
Profile for lanceh
Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2007 22:56
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Bullwinkle wrote:

It will be interesting to watch, and maybe the only thing worth watching in F1 this season.



really, the only thing worth watching? i'm as much a honda fan as anyone else here but there are ton of non-honda things going on in F1 this year to make it one of the most exciting season in recent memory.

- lewis hamilton
- massa putting the smack down on räikkönen
- the fall of renault
- mclaren vs. ferrari
- hamilton vs. alonso
- the progress of bmw

Ra005e
Profile for Ra005e
Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2007 02:24
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WongKN wrote:
I think Honda would surely not be expecting to play '2nd fiddle' to their B-team if they have their own way but this is how it turns out. They had a shot at that P8 or even P7 but their drivers have to collide with each other while the SAF1 drivers stayed cool. So as you said, how ths situation turns out can in a big way, be said to be completely due to their own doing. Mind you, this is not the first time this season where the HF1 drivers 'interfered', unintentionally or not, with each other, to the detriment of the team's overall performance. Didn't JB admit to holding RB up at Melbourne, to the extent that they admitted that had it not have happened, RB 'could have' finished in the points ?


The second I saw Button at the tail end of the pit lane I thought "He better not try to stay in front of Barrichello!". I feared both of them going off into the gravel or worse.
In the end though, after reviewing it, Button got as far to the inside as he could but, despite Barrichello giving him plenty of room, he couldn't make the car turn enough thanks to his relatively cool tires and the speed he was carrying. He/the team/we got lucky.

Don't get me wrong, I was very displeased, but at the very least it wasn't one of the 3-car-lengths-too-late braking maneuvers that he used to pull at Renault.

:IsaFanOfButtonPrimarilyBecauseHeRacesForHonda: < meant with all due respect


WongKN
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Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2007 03:07
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This is why in the past I was always torn whenever there was a debate about Ferrari's team orders back in the days of Micheal Schumacher. In the first place, the heart rebels at the thought of artificially playing with the results. But when Todt/Ferrari says that to them the championship is the end result that justifies the action, you know that dispicable though it is -in the spirit of racing and competition - in reality, it was the prudent thing to do. In the end, I suppose Ferrari can get away with it by justifying that they are so dominant that they can play around and still ensure P1 and P2 finishes in the race. So they have the luxury to do it, though to many they might not have the right to do it. But they did do it and the record books only shows that they were WMC and WDC for so many years.

Fast forward to now and personally for me, I am in a delima. I agree that in the true spirit of racing and competition, the drivers must be allowed to fight between each other based purely on merits. But in the light of the dismal showing of the team, its difficult to justify that when two clear opportunities to score precious points have slipped away to become 'it could have been us'. The record books do not credit 'it could have been us' just 'it was us' who scored the points. I suppose in a pure black and white world we can say competition between drivers in the same team (read JB and RB) can be justified as long as they don't sabotage each other's result in the race but the reality is everytime two drivers fight with each other, there's always a chance of them coming together and ultimately the loser is the team - and the fans.

sadlerau1
Profile for sadlerau1
Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2007 04:12
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So you want a bit each way then WongKN? :)

No, F1 has ALWAYS been about the team. Sure some team principals will geninuely allow racing between their drivers, but not many. "The drivers are allowed to race each other, as long as they don't take each other out" - how many times have you seen that statement.

Just put it down to the wonderful world of F1.

Dren
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Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2007 06:58
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I'd rather see them fight it out in the race and have thing be interesting than the team score one little point at P8 in the end. It is just a point, and at this point in the season where the team is, that point is by far precious.
Dren
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Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2007 07:01
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*edit* I'd rather see them fight it out in the race and have things be interesting than the team score one little point at P8 in the end. It is just a point, and at this point in the season where the team is, that point is far from precious.
franckv
Profile for franckv
Re: Honda and SAF1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2007 07:45
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WongKN wrote:
Well, if anyone is still doubtful that SAF1 is in reality Honda's 'B-team', check the following article in GP.COM

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19155.html

See, they can just switch test drivers between teams just like that.



To be honest, that isn't much of a surprise. Davidson took the second racing seat as a Honda-supported driver, while the help Montagny lent to SAF1 and the good relations he had with Aguri Suzuki suggested he could be the team's favourite. If I remember correctly, Aguri Suzuki had very kind words when FM left, and FM as well was still talking very highly about SAF1 and how a great chap Taku is, even if they parted ways... For the record, he doesn't show such enthusiasm when talking about Toyota on French TV...

Anyway, Rossiter having known links to Honda, and considering what happened before, it just seems kind of normal, doesn't it? ;)


 
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