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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: Race...spoiler..

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SonyFever
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Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 09:13
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HondaF1 sucks!

I could not figure out how come the gap between Button and Schumi widened from 3 seconds to 14 seconds after their first pit stops. Then here came one of the ugliest pit dramas and Button is done with this race. The mistake really make HondaF1 look like a bunch of idiots. If they were not amateur, they are now. I almost forget to mention RB's seem-like-forever first pitstop that destroyed his race.

A team like this can't win.


MacGyver
Profile for MacGyver
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 12:24
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Yes! Totally agree. All the lollipop guy had to do was to raise the damned lollipop after the fuel rig has been removed, and he can't even do it properly! WTF! I hate this team!
HONDA FANATIC
Profile for HONDA FANATIC
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 12:55
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MacGyver wrote:
Yes! Totally agree. All the lollipop guy had to do was to raise the damned lollipop after the fuel rig has been removed, and he can't even do it properly! WTF! I hate this team!


man say whatever but dun say that u hate HF1.

I am myself very worried about them but my support will never stop for them.

MacGyver
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Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 13:07
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Well, sorry, if that's over-the-top already. I just don't feel like watching it anymore unless there's some drastic change in their results...
stuman
Profile for stuman
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 13:52
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sonyfever, I wondered too as I was watching live timing,
but the CBS coverage just revealed JB first pit stop was not a tidy one. once fueling is finished, there are waiting to finish something on the back.

overall a disasterous race. Man I woke up 5 am on PST only to be dissapointed.
1st reuben is very light on fuel then he lost few spot on the start.
then JB pitstop fiasco. plus 3 lap strategy probably not a good idea if you don't have the race pace

what's our excuse this time. tire temperature is not a issue in this race yet button was almost.5 sec off MS pace


hope we'll get the aero development to improve our pace.
our car has low grip that require higher down force to compensate.
they need to steal the renault aerodynamicist who's doing a great job fore them

stuman
Profile for stuman
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 13:56
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sonyfever, I wondered too as I was watching live timing,
but the CBS coverage just revealed JB first pit stop was not a tidy one. once fueling is finished, there are waiting to finish something on the back.

overall a disasterous race. Man I woke up 5 am on PST only to be dissapointed.
1st reuben is very light on fuel then he lost few spot on the start.
then JB pitstop fiasco. plus 3 lap strategy probably not a good idea if you don't have the race pace

what's our excuse this time. tire temperature is not a issue in this race yet button was almost.5 sec off MS pace


hope we'll get the aero development to improve our pace.
our car has low grip that require higher down force to compensate.
they need to steal the renault aerodynamicist who's doing a great job fore them

importracer
Profile for importracer
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 14:09
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i think we need david richards back thats just my opinion and perhaps already looking to see how the engine can exceed 20 k rpm in 2007
IntegraDC5R
Profile for IntegraDC5R
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 19:45
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MacGyver wrote:
Well, sorry, if that's over-the-top already. I just don't feel like watching it anymore unless there's some drastic change in their results...


Well you sound very band-wagonish. Yes watching what transpired last night was distasteful. What kind of fan are you to just say I won't watch until results start coming in. Sorry, but you are the type of fan that Honda doesn't need, you would be better suited to cheering on Toyboat with that attitude. Nobody is forcing you to watch it, so tune out, the majority of us true fans of Honda will be here when you come back around when their results come in.

And I am in disagreeance with the comments that this wouldn't of happened if DR was still with the team(from other posts). I have no opinion of NF, I can't contribute that it is because of him the team is doing badly. No one person makes results good or bad. People can say that once DR was gone, so too were the results, but that is simply a coincidence. Is NF the right person for the job, well somebody at BAR thought so, I have no idea what his true credentials are and how he landed the position, but he is there and most likely he will get the ax, because that is what that position is. It's a scape-goat position. If a team does well, that position is credited with doing wonders, but that position has no technical merit, it doesn't contribute to how fast the car is or isn't. Like Briatore over at Renault, that pompous, oily slug has no reason to think he is what makes Renault what it is, if another person was in that position, the team would still be doing what it is doing today.

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2006 23:14
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While I was one of the first to say that our race and pit-stops sucked (in the other thread about Pat Symond's 'arrogance' interview), I would have to call for more level headedness. Those who followed the race via live timing (I combined live telecast and live timing) should be able to see that we were right on the pace of the front runners. In fact, in MS' middle stint, like the others, Button was also catching up. The gap was coming down pretty fast. In the final stint, Button's speed was right on par with those in front of him - podium man Montoya, Raikkonen and Webber. Also Fisichella as well but people will say that is because he (Fisi) was blocked by Button. The question of 2 or 3 stopper will be determined by how suitable it is for the car. In Imola's case, Martin Brundle reported that computer simulations actually shows that a 3-stopper is in theory faster than a 2-stopper. Despite losing out to Alonso, it was clear that we had a veyr good shot at least P3 if not for the stupid pit-stops. We were way ahead of the McLarens. After all, even with the sticky rear tyre, Button still managed to get out ahead of Massa (yes, adminttedly Massa penalized himself by trying to slow down Alonso) and quite ahead of Montoya and Raikkonen so effectively both we and the McLaren would have 2 stops left and we would've still been ahead.

I continue to keep hearing calls about 'aero'. While I will not dispute that aero might be one of the car's weak points, I think it is starting to become a broken record. Just like we call upon the team to stop blaming everything else and start working, I too thinks that this 'aero' thing might well be over-worked. Stop putting things into a box. Keep calling 'aero' our main problem and when it is fixed, the car still might not win. As always it is the whole package. Over the many years of attending the BAR press conference, I know first hand that we as enthusiasts and spectators likes to put things into a box. We love to have singular items that become the culprit and thus the 'quick fix'. It's AERO, fix the AERO and we will dominate the field. It doesn't work that way. Every year, I ask the team what's the one area they feel is lacking - engine, aero, tyres, etc and every year they tell me that things are not that simplistic and that it is the whole combination of car, tyres, driver, strategy and team that counts. In Imola's case and it is clearly 'team' that has not contributed to the combination.

So this week its back to testing. After that, in 2 weeks time, it will be the Nurburgring if I remember correctly. Again, let's see what that brings.

One thing though, I was one of the first guys who yelled about it and so I'd fully support the call - get rid of Nick Fry. That guy's really hopeless. I really don't know what he's doing for the team, except tell everyone about our strategies that is.... Didn't he revealed that HF1 fancies their chances of winning at Imola. While the basics are still not fully up to par. This then is what Pat Symonds calls 'arrogance' within the Honda camp. Stop making a fool of yourselves HF1.

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 02:19
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Woops, mistake. Button came out BEHIND Raikoonen after the 1st stop (which was 9.5sec due to the problem with the rear tyre), might have been ahead of Raikkonen if not for the tyre. Re-watch a little bit of the race during lunch break just now.
94sir
Profile for 94sir
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 05:33
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WongKN wrote:
Woops, mistake. Button came out BEHIND Raikoonen after the 1st stop (which was 9.5sec due to the problem with the rear tyre), might have been ahead of Raikkonen if not for the tyre. Re-watch a little bit of the race during lunch break just now.


You re-watched it??? You would have to pay me a lot of money to re-watch that race.

I know it sounds bandwagonish, but I wouldn't be too upset if I missed a few of the upcoming races. I've spent the last six years watching every F1 race I possibly could, in anticipation of Honda's first win and eventual domination.

I went to watch the race at a friend's place, hoping that this would be the one time where everything would finally swing into place for Button and Honda. Yet in the back of my mind, I somehow knew that they were going to throw it all away, yet again. Well surprise, surprise. Thankfully my friend is a Kimi Raikkonen fan, so he knows what bad luck is all about.

I'll be watching the next race, but when Button puts the car on the front row at the Nurburgring, I sure as hell won't be leaping for joy, filled with hope of victory on the Sunday. I'm as big a Honda F1 fan as anyone, but man it's becoming hard work.

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 08:51
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94sir wrote:I'll be watching the next race, but when Button puts the car on the front row at the Nurburgring, I sure as hell won't be leaping for joy, filled with hope of victory on the Sunday. I'm as big a Honda F1 fan as anyone, but man it's becoming hard work.


I agree, but Button will have his time sooner or later. The car is good and so is Button, the team just needs to get everything else together.

MacGyver
Profile for MacGyver
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 13:07
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Well you sound very band-wagonish. Yes watching what transpired last night was distasteful. What kind of fan are you to just say I won't watch until results start coming in.


Huh?! What bandwagon would I be joining then? Has Honda won the WCC recently? They haven't even won a single race since they came back. To say someone is joining or leaving a bandwagon is presuming that the team is or was already a winner. Sorry, I must respectfully disagree, a discerning & constructively-critical fan is better than a blind fanatic...

There is nothing to be happy about sunday's race. And everyone is conveniently not mentioning the fact that the team gave up 4pts. from Australia only to regain a measly 2... Heck, even if Bunsen started at 12th place with no pitstop snafus he would have gotten a better result than just 7th. That only added to the disappointment.

330R
Profile for 330R
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 16:05
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MacGyver wrote:
There is nothing to be happy about sunday's race. And everyone is conveniently not mentioning the fact that the team gave up 4pts. from Australia only to regain a measly 2... Heck, even if Bunsen started at 12th place with no pitstop snafus he would have gotten a better result than just 7th. That only added to the disappointment.



Actually it turned out to be a wash, team-wise: lose two points in Melbourne, gain two points at Imola.

For Jenson, combining results from Melbourne & Imola, he lost 1 point, while Rubens gained one.

Assuming Jenson could have actually crossed the finish line at Melbourne, he would have done so no in no higher than 6th place (3 points), as Fisi had passed Button from the loss of engine power. When Jenson pulled over, Rubens gained a position, from 8th to 7th, also gaining one point. So, Honda left Australia with 2 points, from a possible (under the aforementioned circumstances) 4 points.

At Imola, with no grid penalty, Jenson started in 2nd and finished in 7th. Now, where would he have finished if he started in 12th? There was no attrition in the front or midpack, unlike Melbourne. The three stop strategy did not work so well, but a two stopper, whether starting from 2nd or 12th, likely wouldn't have yielded better results, and certainly IMO not a podium finish.

kidoairaku
Profile for kidoairaku
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 16:20
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wow... seriously you re-watched it?
I have every race recorded so far this year and I havent watched any of them more then once... Heck I skipped through most of Imola...
I need to get more channels to start watching more MotoGP or Touring. I'm having a hard time watching F1 this year, I realized the only reason I watched last year was for Sato, this year, you only see him when he get lapped...

Come On Peter Cunningham!


330R
Profile for 330R
Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 16:57
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Pos Driver Team Time
1. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1h31:06.486
2. Alonso Renault (M) + 2.096
3. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) + 15.868
4. Massa Ferrari (B) + 17.096
5. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) + 17.524
6. Webber Williams-Cosworth (B) + 37.739
7. Button Honda (M) + 39.635
8. Fisichella Renault (M) + 40.200
9. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) + 45.511
10. Barrichello Honda (M) + 1:17.851
11. Rosberg Williams-Cosworth (B) + 1:19.675
12. Villeneuve BMW-Sauber (M) + 1:22.370
13. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (M) + 1 lap
14. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) + 1 lap
15. Speed Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) + 1 lap
16. Monteiro MF1-Toyota (B) + 2 laps



WongKN wrote:Those who followed the race via live timing (I combined live telecast and live timing) should be able to see that we were right on the pace of the front runners. In fact, in MS' middle stint, like the others, Button was also catching up. The gap was coming down pretty fast. In the final stint, Button's speed was right on par with those in front of him - podium man Montoya, Raikkonen and Webber.


Button's pace did look good at Imola, especially in the first stint, and it also looked good at Bahrain & Malaysia, even matching at least Fisichella's Renault, and sometimes Alonso's, sector for sector in stints, and showing better pace than the McLaren in some instances, on similar fuel loads. In this instance - Imola - however, Button was on a three stopper to the other frontrunners' two stopper, so his pace was on a lighter fuel load.

pit stops: http://www.formula1.com/race/result/pitstops/754/8.html

Imola cumulative pit stop times:

GF 46.761
KR 48.103
JPM 48.291
FA 49.351
MS 49.438
NH 49.508
FM 49.912
MW 49.925
DC 49.798
VL 50.5
TS 51.672
NR 51.701
TM 51.724
SS 54.503
RB 59.576
JV 1:06.972
RS 1:09.924
JB 1:29.553

I got these from a thread on the Speed TV forums. Ralf was on a three stopper; if we assume his stops were mistake free, then Jenson lost around 19-20 seconds between the first stop rear wheel issue, and the second stop lollipop snafu.

Jenson finished the race 39.635 seconds behind Michael. Factor out the pit stop errors, and with everything else equal he would have finished 19-20 seconds behind Michael, which, if all passing was done in the pits, would have placed Jenson for a 6th place finish, for a gain in position of one place.

Unfortunately, I just don't think we had the pace for a podium at this race. I think we've looked better at Bahrain & Malaysia. Some possible factors could be increased downforce on the Honda for this race, resulting in slower straightline speed; also the Bridgestones appeared to step up in this race.

WongKN wrote:
The question of 2 or 3 stopper will be determined by how suitable it is for the car. In Imola's case, Martin Brundle reported that computer simulations actually shows that a 3-stopper is in theory faster than a 2-stopper.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and unfortunately, we're left to say that just because it works on paper, doesn't mean it works in the real world. The three stopper didn't work, because the pace just wasn't there under the conditions, to take advantage of it. We looked to match the pace of the others, but we needed to beat their pace in order for the three stopper to work. That's really the point of a three stop strategy.

WongKN wrote:
Despite losing out to Alonso, it was clear that we had a veyr good shot at least P3 if not for the stupid pit-stops. We were way ahead of the McLarens.


Please see above.

WongKN wrote:
I continue to keep hearing calls about 'aero'. While I will not dispute that aero might be one of the car's weak points, I think it is starting to become a broken record. Just like we call upon the team to stop blaming everything else and start working, I too thinks that this 'aero' thing might well be over-worked.


IMO, the way toward bringing a race winning car to the track is to identify the biggest issues and work to fixing them. In reflection of this, I don't see what's wrong with people here discussing what appears to be one of, if not the largest issue. Notice I said, 'appears'. Appearances can be deceiving, but we do have evidence toward the aero not being optimal.

An example of this:

From Nakamoto Report, Vol. 93, as translated by good ol' toy toda:

Q-The tire temperature is low while the car is running compared to Renault. Is it because of the lack of downforce?

Yes. It is the biggest reason. We know that the temperature goes up once the car gets the downforce. It is like the tire temperature problem is the reflection of the lack of downforce. There is that difference in downforce between us and them. In other words, our pace can match them in race because the mechanical grip is covering for the lack of downforce. It is highly possible that our mechanical side is superior than Renault.


We saw glimpses of the problem at the first two races, then at Melbourne, BAM - obvious tire heating issue. How to resolve the issue? Identify the problem, discuss it, then work toward a solution. Yes, the Imola weather conditions were warmer, but Button had a good start, and also did not lose a position after the safety car. Granted, it was only out for what, a lap or two. (I need to see the race again). Anyway, the point is, they worked toward a solution in testing before Imola. It looks like they've brought forward at least one new aero device, as we saw at Barcelona and at Imola, with the winglets forward of the mirrors.

It's about improvement, improvement, improvement. The folks here, as fans, can try to identify, and discuss, the issues we think the team/car have, but it's up to Honda to work to solve them. I see nothing wrong with this.

WongKN wrote:
Keep calling 'aero' our main problem and when it is fixed, the car still might not win. As always it is the whole package.


Absolutely, but if the aero is one obstacle toward making a winning car, then it cannot be ignored just because it alone may not be the only obstacle.

WongKN wrote:
Every year, I ask the team what's the one area they feel is lacking - engine, aero, tyres, etc and every year they tell me that things are not that simplistic and that it is the whole combination of car, tyres, driver, strategy and team that counts. In Imola's case and it is clearly 'team' that has not contributed to the combination.


Absolutely. It takes everything to fall into place. I think your last sentence is a little contradictory, though, because as you say that people shouldn't just point to "aero", I don't think you should just point to "team". As I said in this lengthy post (sorry!), the car and the strategy weren't entirely up to the task at Imola, either, unfortunately.

WongKN wrote:
So this week its back to testing. After that, in 2 weeks time, it will be the Nurburgring if I remember correctly. Again, let's see what that brings.


Yep; three day test at Silverstone this week; then European GP at the "Nurburgring" next weekend. :)

Apologies again for the lengthy post.


IntegraDC5R
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Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2006 19:23
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MacGyver wrote:
Huh?! What bandwagon would I be joining then? Has Honda won the WCC recently? They haven't even won a single race since they came back. To say someone is joining or leaving a bandwagon is presuming that the team is or was already a winner. Sorry, I must respectfully disagree, a discerning & constructively-critical fan is better than a blind fanatic...



I am not saying be blind and cheer wildly at poor results. I am not a blind fanatic, I think you were speaking in general and not directing it right at me, but if you were, you are sorely mistaken. I like many of you have been waiting and waiting and waiting and yet some more waiting for the results to come in. I think 2004 was bad for the team now in retrospect, because a few other teams were off and this made BAR-Honda look so good, but I guess they really never were, just a reflection of other teams getting it wrong. Right place at the right time. I am very disappointed with what is going on, but I am not just going to give up rooting for the team, if you can't see what you said as being bandwagonish, I don't know what to say to you. You said you will come back when the results start flowing in, that's a bandwagon is it not? The same bandwagon that you will see in grand fashion once Honda does start winning again. I really feel you are a true Honda fan, but to basically say PHUCK OFF to the team because they are letting you down is not what a TRUE fan would do, sure criticize them till your blue in the face, but don't just walk away. Believe me, I feel the misery and dejection race after race that everyone else here feels, but I will not stop giving my complete support to Honda. We all know what they are capable of if history is to repeat itself, just when is it going to happen though? haha Hopefully sooner than later, another thing we all have been saying year after year.

And in actuality they only gave up 2pts, as they would of only scored 4 total in Australia if JB even really could of coasted across the finish line. Say he did, he starts this race 12th, it's a big what-if to say what could of transpired. He still could of had shitty pit-stops, he would of been stuck in the mid-field, look at what happened to Rubens after his shitty first pit-stop, he came out in 13th and couldn't get around the slower cars, Imola sucks for racing. Look at Alonso, he was faster than Michael, but with the nature of Imola, couldn't get by him. I'm still critical of RB somewhat, but with the 1st pitstop error, I knew his race was done at that point, just because you can not really pass at all in Imola.


OldCivic92Lover
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Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2006 07:02
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IntegraDC5R wrote:
And in actuality they only gave up 2pts, as they would of only scored 4 total in Australia if JB even really could of coasted across the finish line. Say he did, he starts this race 12th, it's a big what-if to say what could of transpired. He still could of had shitty pit-stops, (...)

From last year I am starting to think that Honda is better to make less pitstops because they are still difficult for them! It's funny and excuses are not enough to me, allthough I am fan of Honda. It's better to make 1 pitstop and 1 mistake instead of 3 pitstops and 2 errors! Statistically, was better to start 10 positions back with one pitstop. But we know that this is not the solution, they have to eliminate all the little $#@#^ errors. If not, the F1 project will bankrupt and Honda will leave. No-one wants this.

Point-wise the decision was faulty. I think that all here, we have the belief that this decision(-s) was good for one purpose: to take win(-s). So we don't care about points but for wins. I agree with that, it's a.. win spirit. But point-wise, it's wrong decision. We have witnessed that McLaren can finish in podium from last position, several times.

WongKN
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Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2006 07:26
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My main message here is that we cannot just shoe-box a single technical item and then put the blame on it everytime something we are not up to par in absolute speed. Because that would lead to major dissapointment when it do get fixed and the results still don't come in. I have been reading too many post simply blanketly blaming aero. The posts are countless, those that keep saying things akin to 'once the new windtunnel comes in, we will win'. The cold tyres issue is a perfect illustration. We had pole in Australia and it was proven that we had similar fuel loads as the others. So we WERE fast in Australia. But cold tyres let us down. Then there's a huge talk about how to alleviate and yes I'd admit I was one of those who participated. Then it was reported that the cold tyre issue has been more or less taken care off over the 2 tests that HF1 had. And even Button came out to say that they (HF1) are reasonably confident that it has been resolved. Then I saw people start writing super positive post. Cold tyre issue solved, we stand a good chance of winning. That leads to unrealistic expectations and indirectly to some of the rather huge backlash we have seen here on this thread. That's the thing. Cold tyres was the biggest problem we had at Australia but overall, it is still the whole package that counts. Solving cold tyres did NOT give us a race win. Similarly, if we continue to shoe-box aero, then when the aero do get fixed, it is still possible that we will STILL not get the win. I shudder to think of the 'backlash' I will read.

On a side-note, I've always felt that the final gap at the end of the race is not a good illustration of how far or near the cars were. This is because many would have started to pace themselves a few laps before the end. Alonso clearly pulled back and paced himself after that few instances of oversteer, to ensure he gets P2. And I am sure many of the others were. I think when Button sees that he was not doing any 'damage' to his gap to Webber towards the end, he too started pacing himself. Don't forget he has to take the engine to Nurburgring and as is the norm now, if the win is not possible, the key is to start to do everything to target for a possible win the NEXT race, without sacrificing (or even with sacrificing) the points in this race.

330R
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Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2006 10:06
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WongKN wrote:
On a side-note, I've always felt that the final gap at the end of the race is not a good illustration of how far or near the cars were. This is because many would have started to pace themselves a few laps before the end. Alonso clearly pulled back and paced himself after that few instances of oversteer, to ensure he gets P2. And I am sure many of the others were. I think when Button sees that he was not doing any 'damage' to his gap to Webber towards the end, he too started pacing himself. Don't forget he has to take the engine to Nurburgring and as is the norm now, if the win is not possible, the key is to start to do everything to target for a possible win the NEXT race, without sacrificing (or even with sacrificing) the points in this race.


Alonso had to settle because he was getting loose the more he pushed. He was not going to successfully attack and pass Michael. Others settle in because the gap is insurmountable. Other settle because they need to look after their equipment. Many have to settle because of the nature of the circuit, especially at Imola; it's just so difficult to pass.

The point of illustrating the gap from Michael to Jenson, and others in between, was to show that Button had no chance of a podium, and from what I can tell, based on the gap and the nature of the circuit, little to no chance to place higher than 6th.

Webber's position is simply a result of the Honda pit stop blunders. Aside from that, the results are pretty much reflective of the performances.

330R
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Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2006 10:17
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WongKN wrote:
My main message here is that we cannot just shoe-box a single technical item and then put the blame on it everytime something we are not up to par in absolute speed. Because that would lead to major dissapointment when it do get fixed and the results still don't come in. I have been reading too many post simply blanketly blaming aero. The posts are countless, those that keep saying things akin to 'once the new windtunnel comes in, we will win'. The cold tyres issue is a perfect illustration. We had pole in Australia and it was proven that we had similar fuel loads as the others. So we WERE fast in Australia. But cold tyres let us down. Then there's a huge talk about how to alleviate and yes I'd admit I was one of those who participated. Then it was reported that the cold tyre issue has been more or less taken care off over the 2 tests that HF1 had. And even Button came out to say that they (HF1) are reasonably confident that it has been resolved. Then I saw people start writing super positive post. Cold tyre issue solved, we stand a good chance of winning. That leads to unrealistic expectations and indirectly to some of the rather huge backlash we have seen here on this thread. That's the thing. Cold tyres was the biggest problem we had at Australia but overall, it is still the whole package that counts. Solving cold tyres did NOT give us a race win. Similarly, if we continue to shoe-box aero, then when the aero do get fixed, it is still possible that we will STILL not get the win. I shudder to think of the 'backlash' I will read.


I understand your concern that people will pigeonhole an area of the car and say, "that's the problem. without that problem we can win", only to find to their dismay that once that problem has been corrected or at least improved upon, that there still isn't a winning result.

People could just say, "car" problem; i.e. the problem is the car, and leave it at that. But then, others will want to look closer at the issue, to try and analyze it, because they're curious, and they want to understand what is wrong and what can be done to improve it. Futhermore, even broadening the brush stroke to say "car" is not enough, because myself and many others believe there are problems with the team strategy, so then people will point to "team". Eventually, we could end up saying "everything" is the problem. In that case, people will go wide-eyed and lose hope. Not good.

Frankly I think it's better to point to more specific areas, whether they turn out to be the only ones or not. People are going to speculate and discuss, since they're caring fans.

JMU R1
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Re: Race...spoiler..    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2006 10:32
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OldCivic92Lover wrote:
Point-wise the decision was faulty. I think that all here, we have the belief that this decision(-s) was good for one purpose: to take win(-s). So we don't care about points but for wins. I agree with that, it's a.. win spirit. But point-wise, it's wrong decision. We have witnessed that McLaren can finish in podium from last position, several times.

Yes but at a circuit like Imola where passing is difficult it would have been the wrong choice. Button might have scored at Imola anyway but the odds of storming through the pack at a track like that are not good.

And again, Honda's goal this season is to win at least one race. I'd much rather see them go for it than acquiesce to scraping for points.


 
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