[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
BBC: Honda set to close Swindon factory in 2022
More.......................
Nikkei: Honda enters agreement with CATL for battery supply contract through 2027
More.......................
Acura Marks 30 Years Since Debut of Iconic NSX Supercar
More.......................
American Honda reports January sales
More.......................
Acura Marks 15th Anniversary of Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™
More.......................
Honda releases pricing and EPA information for 2019 Passport
More.......................
American Honda Reports December Sales
More.......................
American Honda Reports November Sales
More.......................
Professional Motorsports --> Re: F1 - 2019 Pre-Season Testing - Days 1-4
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Swindon in peril
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: 2020 Honda Fit Render
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Kandi EV Approved for US
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: DC-R
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Timid AHM marketing
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura
Join Discussion......
TOV Asia --> Re: Honda JP Sales 2018: Hybrids make up 55% of reg. cars
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Honda's new sub-brand Honda e
Join Discussion......
Amateur Racing & Driving --> Re: My first helmet !
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: Honda closing UK plant that builds the Type R
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Original NSX prototype only had a SOHC V6 without VTEC
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Rumours that Honda will close its Swindon plant
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Sunny came home with a mission
Join Discussion......
2019 Honda Passport PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
2019 Acura NSX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura ILX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura ILX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Honda Pilot
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Pilot PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > TSX > > Re: Small V6

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1]
Author
  Post New Thread
sjava
Profile for sjava
Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2005 02:15
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Don't you think that Honda should put small V6 into TSX? I read IS250 specification and it's better than TSX on many areas. The 2.5 V6 gives you more fuel economic (24/32) and higher performance (7.9 0-60 on auto). I'm specifically dissapointed with TSX fuel economy because it's not better any many V6 engines out there. I know most of you guys would say that smaller I4 will give you a more lighter and nimble car but it's hard to justify that advantage if you don't get good fuel economy and speed performance.
CSi
Profile for CSi
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2005 03:14
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
sjava wrote:
Don't you think that Honda should put small V6 into TSX? I read IS250 specification and it's better than TSX on many areas. The 2.5 V6 gives you more fuel economic (24/32) and higher performance (7.9 0-60 on auto). I'm specifically dissapointed with TSX fuel economy because it's not better any many V6 engines out there. I know most of you guys would say that smaller I4 will give you a more lighter and nimble car but it's hard to justify that advantage if you don't get good fuel economy and speed performance.

3 Reason why not:
>TSX might have a better power weight ratio with the 4.
>No way an V6 will fit into the TSX's engine bay
>Shoehorning an V6 into the TSX may have a severe impact to its handling aspects.

there are more.

gavinjung
Profile for gavinjung
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2005 07:54
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
you know, this has been brought up many times before but i'm thinking there might be another explanation than the typical that's been given. well, sort of. so here goes. does honda even have a V6 engine that's smaller than 3.0L? if they don't and they wanted a ~2.4L engine to meet their design requirements, would it make more sense to upsize an existing 4cyl or downsize an existing 6cyl? cuz in all honesty i don't think it would make much sense to make an entirely new engine series for the TSX. to downsize an existing V6 would most likely involve DEboring (if that's a term) the cylinders and because of that, you probably wouldn't save much weight, size or packaging, if any, over the 3.0L you were downsizing from. given the size and weight of a 3.0L, i really don't think it would fit or even help toward reaching the TSX's packaging and handling goals. to upsize an existing 4cyl on the other hand, tho arguably not as easy, would make more sense. it wouldn't gain much weight or size. in this case they took the existing K series, natively 2.0L, and stroked it. that made piston speeds a bit of an issue, and might've reduced wall thickness perhaps (not sure if they did this part), but honda's experienced with these issues. given the constraints, i think what's in the TSX makes sense. i just really can't see them designing an entirely new V6 series for america's TSX or designing a larger and heavier platform that would be used worldwide to be able to fit a larger and heavier 3.0Lsized 2.4L engine for n.america. do you? besides, if they did that, it would be bigger, heavier, and pretty much be the Accord. so yeah, in a nutshell, a small V6 might make sense, but i don't think honda's interested in designing an entirely new engine to manufacture them in such small volumes. even with the upcoming RDX which could probably use a similarly sized engine, i don't think they'd make enough of them worldwide.

gj.

Spyder5786
Profile for Spyder5786
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2005 12:12
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Good point

Honda doesn't have a small displacement to stick in the TSX even if it wanted to.

Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2005 13:03
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Honda did have a 2.5/V6 (J25A) used in JDM Inspire/Saber as the base engine (200 HP/ 178 lb.-ft). But with K24A, it was rendered virtually useless. And as gavin suggested, it won’t make sense to derive a J25A from J30A, since there will be virtually no gain in weight/packaging aspects. You might as well shoe-horn a J35A in there.

As it is, TSX has enough torque and power to go with its 3300 lb curb weight. I would rather see AHM replace the front and rear steel subframes and reduce the curb weight by 50-70 lb like it has done with RL (TL has aluminum subframe only in the front, and TSX has neither).

And if possible, an AWD Hybrid version, something along the lines of 2002 Acura RDX concept (250 HP, electric motor based AWD system).

pjlk
Profile for pjlk
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2005 22:38
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Acura needs to do something with their current TSX engine, your IS-250 comments (mileage and performance) are well taken and Acura's pushing of a warmed-over 2004 (or older) engine just won't cut it. I guess Honda/Acura hopes to squeeze out another year. Hopefully they have something in their engineering department, because the interior and the TSX safety aspects of the car are world up-scale class.




Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2005 22:55
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Acura has got a car in that class. It is called TL. TSX doesn't need to bloat up. And it needs to stay Acura's entry level sedan.
86accord
Profile for 86accord
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2005 22:55
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Which luxury car manufacture has a 4 banger?, we all know the answer. TSX should have V6 with a handing same as I4
roninsi02
Profile for roninsi02
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 01:01
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
86accord wrote:
Which luxury car manufacture has a 4 banger?, we all know the answer. TSX should have V6 with a handing same as I4


Actually Audis a4 has the turbo. But its also got a v6 option as well.

I like the way BMW does their cars. Small lightweight and you can get anything from a 2.5l i6 to a 4l v8.

Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 01:08
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
86accord wrote:
Which luxury car manufacture has a 4 banger?, we all know the answer. TSX should have V6 with a handing same as I4

Let us start with Mercedes. Got any question?

anime_man24
Profile for anime_man24
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 01:14
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The toyota engine has direct injection. That's where a lot of it's fuel efficiency and power comes from.
Mikef
Profile for Mikef
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 01:44
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The IS with an automatic gets better EPA mileage but look what happens when it is equipped with a manual transmission.
The EPA ratings drop and it is not as fast as a TSX 6MT. It appears the IS was designed for an automatic. If you want a manual transmission I still prefer the TSX especially when you consider price. The TSX does not need a V-6. I look at results not how many cylinders.

RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 09:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Mikef wrote:
The TSX does not need a V-6. I look at results not how many cylinders.

I agree. However, the way Honda geared the TSX AT, it's a bit anemic. Compared with the previous gen. IS300, the TSX gets walked (I know, I tried it). The MT is far more fun to drive and that only increased as you begin finding additional power with mods.

Ryan

ACCORDLOVER
Profile for ACCORDLOVER
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 10:58
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Wizard wrote:
86accord wrote:
Which luxury car manufacture has a 4 banger?, we all know the answer. TSX should have V6 with a handing same as I4

Let us start with Mercedes. Got any question?



Not anymore in the states.

C230 - new 4 valve V6
C280 - new 4 valve V6
C350 - new 4 valve V6

FNJ
Profile for FNJ
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 11:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
This never made it out of the rumor phase, but the turbo 4cyl that was supposed to be in the RDX would fit the bill.
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 11:12
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
ACCORDLOVER wrote:
Wizard wrote:
86accord wrote:
Which luxury car manufacture has a 4 banger?, we all know the answer. TSX should have V6 with a handing same as I4

Let us start with Mercedes. Got any question?



Not anymore in the states.


Is it a luxury brand only in the States?

n8dog82
Profile for n8dog82
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 11:17
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Easy answer to this....

The Lexus IS250 Rear Wheel Drive starts at $29,900 with a manual and $31,100 with an automatic.

These cars do not have leather, heated seats, etc. You have to add a $2000 premium Package to get these features. To get these cars comprably equiped they are the price of a TL.

You cannot compare horsepower when the cars do not compete with each other. Compare the IS250 0-60 of 8ish to the TLs 0-60 of mid-to-high 6ish (with auto) and all of a sudden the IS doesnt looks like a dog.

mac_powah
Profile for mac_powah
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 12:24
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Um...did you see how much an IS250 weighs? Sure it's got a 2.5L V6 making 205 hp, but ummmm....it friggin' weighs 3455lbs in BASE form. So, when you start adding options that come standard with the price of a TSX, god only knows how much it would weigh then. I was excited when I found out that the IS250 was being released, but now I am more than happy to stay with my lovely TSX 6MT - Although the IS does have more emotional styling.
sjava
Profile for sjava
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 12:48
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
anime_man24 wrote:
The toyota engine has direct injection. That's where a lot of it's fuel efficiency and power comes from.


Thanks for all comments. I appreciate it. I think direct injection is the key to IS advantage. Does Honda have any plan to go to this direction? How about 6-speed automatic transmissions? Most luxury brands already have them. Com'on Honda, keep up the competition.

soulboy
Profile for soulboy
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 12:59
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I don't understand why Honda hasn't upped the power in its four cyl for this car. I know the S2000 is rear drive, but can't they develop a similar engine based on the S2000's that's a 2.2 with at least 240hp? Max torque would be similar, but Honda would have to make sure it has a nice wide torque curve with good low and mid-range grunt.

I think it would be a no-brainer marketing-wise to introduce a Type-S model. It's got the goods right now to be a BMW 3-series-beater if they had a Type-S model.

Spyder5786
Profile for Spyder5786
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 13:35
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
What? Honda DID up the HP on the TSX. It was an approximately 10hp increase over 2005.

There is simply no way to put the s2000 engine in the TSX while maintaining the torque that the k24 has. A stroked motor like the k24 can't rev as high as the f22 in the s2000. But it provides more torque, which is what is needed in a sedan like the TSX. Also the f-series engines are outdated. They are the only 4-cylinder engines left in the Honda line-up without i-vtec.

iNteGRaz92
Profile for iNteGRaz92
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 14:09
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
you forgot overpriced
iNteGRaz92
Profile for iNteGRaz92
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2005 14:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
the is is overpriced and overweight. is lexus trying to be bmw by overcharging for their cars or something?
navitsx
Profile for navitsx
Re: Small V6    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2005 22:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
didn't i read on here recently that the new is has 4" less rear legroom than the tsx or tl? much heavier and a shoehorn backseat for how much money?? sure it looks great, but come on.

 
Thread Page - [1]
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
30 mobile: 0