[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
NSX GT3 Evo To Compete Globally in 2019
More.......................
2019 Acura ILX Arrives with Dynamic New Styling, Major Technology Upgrades and New A-Spec Treatment
More.......................
Honda Joins with Cruise and General Motors to Build New Autonomous Vehicle
More.......................
Honda reports September 2018 sales numbers
More.......................
Honda recalling 232,000 2018 Accords and 2019 Insights for rear camera software update
More.......................
2019 Accord arriving in showrooms by November
More.......................
Is a base trim of the Civic Type R finally arriving for MY 2019? (More MY2019 info inside)
More.......................
Team Honda Research wins ST2 at NASA Nationals with their NC1 NSX
More.......................
Type R --> Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: European CO2 madness and why electromobility is pointless
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: CR-V Hybrid 4wd iMMD
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Tesla’s "Full Self Driving" Scam coming to light
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: F1 - 2018 United States Grand Prix
Join Discussion......
CR-V --> Re: Oil Contamination in CRV's and Civic's with the 1.5T (And 2.0 CTR)
Join Discussion......
Ridgeline - General Talk --> Re: Honda to bring mystery off-road truck to 2018 SEMA
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: 2019/2020 Honda FR GT500
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> evo's best Japanese cars, 5 new, 5 old
Join Discussion......
Accord --> Re: 02 Accord V6 EX Coupe Stalling!
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: "2019 Toyota Supra Is a BMW Parts Bin Car"
Join Discussion......
Fuel Cell Technology --> Re: DMV Stickers, we don't need no stinking stickers
Join Discussion......
Clarity --> Re: Clarity PHEV Owner
Join Discussion......
Amateur Racing & Driving --> Re: TSX @ NCCAR Apexfest
Join Discussion......
First Drive: 2019 Honda Pilot
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Pilot PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Honda Insight
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Insight PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura RDX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura RDX Features & Specifications
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
  TOV News > 2006 Acura TSX Raises the Bar With More Performance, Refinement and Style > > Re: Falling behind

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1]
Author
    
jpm
Profile for jpm
Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-02-2005 21:44
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
It's sad to see Honda coming up short on this great car. It really needed a much bigger power boost to stay competitive. We should hope that the FMC for the Accord it's based on will do what's needed in a shorter than usual timeframe.
shingles
Profile for shingles
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-02-2005 23:08
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
What are you comparing it with though?

2006 Audi 2.0T, 200hp*
2006 BMW 325i, 215hp*
2006 Acura TSX, 205hp
2005 MB C230, 189hp*
2005 Saab 9-3 aero, 210hp*

* old SAE rating, who knows what it is in the new rating.

Looks fairly competitive to cars that's in it's class.

Nino
Profile for Nino
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2005 00:57
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
power IS much more, probably 20 hp. Wait up for the dyno before you form an opinion. 205 hp sae could easily be 220- 230 the old way... There is TOO many mods here for only 5hp...

Anyway dyno will tell the story...

Title102
Profile for Title102
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2005 01:23
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Don't forget the Lexus IS 250 at 204hp and 184 tourqe w/ the new SAE rating. All pretty close to each other it seems.

shingles
Profile for shingles
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2005 09:18
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Yes thanks for pointing that out...

There's certainly a "sky's falling" mentality from some folks. But when you look at it, it's very competitive.

In the end, HP alone won't sell cars to these target audience...

FM3
Profile for FM3
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2005 17:22
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Looking through the opinions/surveys on some auromotive sites, I noticed that all low scores for the TSX were on the auto transmission. All 6 Speed scores were real high...

Bottom line if you get the TSX, get it with the 6 speed. You won't complain about power.

MadBatsTSX
Profile for MadBatsTSX
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2005 17:36
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Which sites might those be? If you don't mind.
incubus
Profile for incubus
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2005 19:38
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
thats what ppl get for driving automatics. they should actually learn how to drive a car and buy a manual.
FM3
Profile for FM3
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2005 20:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Try Edmunds.com and autos.msn.com.
jpm
Profile for jpm
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2005 12:57
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
... but the other half of the power story looks completely different and this is historically where Honda and also us honda afficionados tend to play ostrich with our heads in the sand - torque? ... la la la la ... I can't hear you ... la la la ...

Seriously folks, you've got to get up to 4500 rpm to reach your maximum torque and even when you get there, it's well shy of even the grandfatherly Mercedes.

Honda makes this work much better in cars like the S2000 where it's understandable that you'll want and intend to drive at high rev's because that's the spirit in which the car was conceived. Frenetic yes, fun YES!

The TSX doesn't get away with the same kind of purpose and intent, so you just can't ignore torque in the same way. That is why when considering power (not just hp) I feel Honda missed an opportunity with this model year's updates. That long rumoured, much discussed RDX turbo might be all the TSX needs. Here's hoping!

2006 Audi 2.0T, 200hp*; torque = 207 @ 1800 rpm
2006 BMW 325i, 215hp*; torque = 185 @ 2750 pm
2006 Acura TSX, 205hp; torque = 166 @ 4500 rpm
2005 MB C230, 189hp*; torque = 181 @ 2700 rpm
2005 Saab 9-3 2.0t, 210hp*; torque = 221 @ 2500 rpm
2005 Volvo S40 T5, 218hp; torque = 236 @ 1500 rpm

sandnessmj
Profile for sandnessmj
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2005 13:35
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
True that the torque numbers are lower, but the peak torque number isn't the whole story. Sure, you may have to spin up the TSX to tool around town, but that sure doesn't mean it's slow! Horsepower is a function of how much torque there is at a given rpm. Don't discount this TSX...look at Toyota's Celica - a measly 127 ftlbs, but it's at nearly 6k rpm (iirc). The Sentra SE-R has 180 ftlbs that it makes at 4k rpm...what happens in the 1/4 mile? They come out nearly the same, with the celica overtaking the Sentra after that. I would be more concerned with the TSX having a smooth torque curve than anything...I'm sure it's gearing makes for a pleasure to drive and keep up with the rest of the pack.
RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2005 14:14
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Have you driven the TSX? I've driven both the 6MT and 5AT for extended periods and can tell you that there's PLENTY of low-end torque to move the car regardless of transmission. The car has an adequete amount of power and this ~10HP boost should be a nice improvement.

Drive one. It's a great car.

Ryan

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2005 14:32
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Not to mention the curve is very flat. So peak doesn't mean anything to me. Just look at the J30 and J32. In the J32 the peak is at 5000 rpms however 90% of that is probably avaliable off idle to redline.
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2005 15:05
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
A flat curve indeed. Red is the stock run. 95% of peak torque from 2200-5000 rpm. If anything, the top end seems a bit weak for a Honda 4 :)

http://vtec.net/articles/article-image?image=214692/tovtsx_aem.gif




jpm
Profile for jpm
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2005 15:08
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
RyanDL wrote:
Have you driven the TSX? I've driven both the 6MT and 5AT for extended periods and can tell you that there's PLENTY of low-end torque to move the car regardless of transmission. The car has an adequete amount of power and this ~10HP boost should be a nice improvement.

Drive one. It's a great car.

Ryan



Ryan - I love the TSX and would buy one over a BMW 3 series any day. I've driven it extensively (for somebody that ended up not buying one) and agree that the boost they've given will only make it better, though as others have noted the AT seems to need the power more than the MT.

I know we all have a different balance of criteria when choosing a car and when I replaced my 2000 Accord in April the TSX was top of my list. I have just been expressing my sadness that, with this upgrade, Honda didn't do more to remedy what for my priorities was the area which needed it most.

It would be fair to say that I probably expect more and better from Honda than others on every count, simply because I know they can do it and do it so well. That's why I hold out hope that a bigger boost to the powerplant won't be another 3 or 4 years coming! Also, I'd like a revised powerplant to be beyond it's first year when I evaluate my next car :)

Turnaround is fair though. Spend a few days with an S40 T5 with Sport Package and see what you think! Watch out for the clutch at first - with all that power so early on, it's a bit sensitive untill you get used to it :D If the TSX was closer to this, then I'd be terrorising children and small animals (joke) in one now!!

Don't get me wrong, the TSX is still on my list, just at #2 for now!

Mikef
Profile for Mikef
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2005 17:52
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I feel Acura put as much power in the TSX as they can and maintain its wonderful balance. I have driven the S40 and all of its variations and none have the handling of the TSX including the T5 AWD. The S40 is simply not as refined as the TSX and alot more money.
WickedEast
Profile for WickedEast
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2005 19:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The majority of drivers don't get excited like kids in a candyshop when it comes to a car's power or its zero-to-sixties time. In fact, most people drive an automatic with less than 200HP and their life is surely not more miserable than yours.

So, please keep your childish comment for yourself.

incubus wrote:
thats what ppl get for driving automatics. they should actually learn how to drive a car and buy a manual.

CD5acrd
Profile for CD5acrd
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2005 21:13
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The TSX is still quite competitive. The only strike against the TSX really is it's excessive weight for it's size.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2005 23:40
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
notyper wrote:
A flat curve indeed. Red is the stock run. 95% of peak torque from 2200-5000 rpm. If anything, the top end seems a bit weak for a Honda 4 :)

http://vtec.net/articles/article-image?image=214692/tovtsx_aem.gif






yeah, funny how Honda sometimes doesn't always mention the FIRST torque peak. And how sometimes that FIRST torque peak is higher than the quoted one... With the TSX there are two peaks, one at around 2700-2800rpm and then another one at the quoted figure. In between it's only down a few lb-ft. I totally concur with Shawn though. My biggest complaint is that the thing doesn't scream like most "serious" Honda VTECs once it hits the big lobes.

I'd prefer it to be shifted about 2000 rpms to the right on the curve. 4800 for the first peak, and another one at 6800 or so, which would make for some healthy horsepower and a helluva lot more fun. Diesel-like low-rpm grunt is pretty boring to me. So I also agree (to an extent) with jpm that the TSX needs some more excitement from the engine room. That's about the only thing the motor lacks, though.



Last edited by JeffX on 09-06-2005 23:43
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2005 23:43
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nino wrote:
power IS much more, probably 20 hp. Wait up for the dyno before you form an opinion. 205 hp sae could easily be 220- 230 the old way... There is TOO many mods here for only 5hp...

Anyway dyno will tell the story...



Well, according to people within Honda, in absolute terms, the bump is only 10hp.

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: Falling behind [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-20-2005 15:21
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
So how much do you think these 10 poines will help? I am predicting it will take about 2 tenths off the 1/4 mile putting this car in prelude VTEC territory.

 
Thread Page - [1]
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
29 mobile: 0