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  TOV News > Practically Perfect > > To danielgr

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george
Profile for george
Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2002 18:18
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Honda did a great job with the interior, but the poor execution in the exterior will not make it a top seller like the current generation. The sales volumes in the current generation Civic is a disappointment for Honda. It is a bad trend because Honda is too damn "business" conservative and is designing car to be equivalent of refrigerators in every way. Hondas are reliable and functional, but they lack passion in form and function. The s2000 and NSX being exceptions because they have different market. Most Honda cars from the 80s and 90s were innovative and that's what capture new markets, now Honda only focuses on maintaining market share and won't take calcuated risks to capture new opportunities. Honda has the technical ability, but since the death of Soichiro Honda, their company excecutives have taken the safe business route.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2002 18:40
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We already heard this before... Anyway, I tend to agree (for what comes for your US market products) but still ... Neither the NSX nor the S2000 sell numbers are something to be proud about... The Accord and Civic ones are. You say Civic sales were disapointing for Honda, well, it was still the most sold car in the US last year, I think this is enough.

silverk
Profile for silverk
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2002 18:58
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Good enough for me. I can't wait to see one in person. From the pics, I think it looks better than the gen6 accord coupe. I love my '98 coupe, but this car is more refined. The interior looks top notch. Maybe my loyalty to Honda has lulled me into excepting conservative looking cars. But who can argue with Honda quality, dependability and ultimately resale value?
magueto
Profile for magueto
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2002 19:33
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Where is my 240 HP refrigerator?
iNteGRaz92
Profile for iNteGRaz92
lack passion? right... there are MANY euro cars that are ugly, yet they have passion right? (n/t) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2002 20:29
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n/t
Enzo
Profile for Enzo
I'm actually getting hooked on the design! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2002 21:42
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Maybe it's a case of the self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. you repeat to yourself that you'll like it more and more as time passes), but I am starting to admire the exterior of the Accord (esp. the Coupe) just as much as the interior.

It's been said at least a hundred times before, but I think this is yet another Honda design that will not wear out as quickly as some of the other cars on the market. Just look at something like the Celica, for example. It was fabulous when it came out, but now it doesn't look all that attractive (no flaming please...it's all subjective). And the Accord rivals, the Camry and the Altima look so oddly-proportioned that the Accord may end up to be the beautiful swan of them all.

The new Accord Coupe incorporates the best features of the RSX (the greenhouse), the S2000 (aggressive cat-eyes), the Prelude (distinctive chiseled slab-sides), and the Mercedes SLK (rear lights). None of the above cars look dated even after years of release (except the RSX), so I am pretty sure that the Accord Coupe will still look subtly attractive for years to come.

I think the general opinion is that the new Accords are definitely not works of art, but they are dependable machines that offer the BEST compromise between design and function relative to its competition. Look at the Camry: the interior is so trendy-wannabe that it offers little in way of warmth; it doesn't feel like you are WITH the car but rather just IN the car. Then the Altima: rather daring for a Japanese sedan, and in this case, design came over function. Again, look at the interior. Even the exterior is pretty hideous (when will the Altezza-light fad end? And when it does, people will be fighting to change those lights back).

Just my two cents =).

P.S.: Who can honestly say that the 98-02 Accord was beautiful or exciting? Yet it has been the best-selling car for much of its life-cycle. Why? Because consumers DON'T just focus on styling in this family-sedan segment. Now can we just stop all the whining and appreciate the uncountable advantages of this new generation? I know I can't wait to test drive one!

Xtrema
Profile for Xtrema
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2002 22:33
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I've been a nay sayer ever since the first photo released Sunday night (28th).

But as better and bigger pics show up, I started to like the front. The interior I like right the way, look like good material and layout. It's not perfect but better than anyone else in class. And after reading all the improvement on canadianautoreview.com, thing such as body more rigid than any car except S class and improved air dynamic and all. I now started to like the car.

I really like the coupe but I need a sedan. And the rear half of the sedan I still need to get over. But given other upgrades and 250HP and if the price stay the same or lower. I'm certian I'll be a proud owner of a 03 Accord

Babingatron
Profile for Babingatron
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 01:27
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250hp refrigerator with premium gas. :-)
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 04:03
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Well, I really cannot understand why magazins just speak about design in cars. Everyone should be able to determined by himself if he likes or not a car's shape. Do you guys need somebody else to say you :"Oh,this car is ugly, this one is beautiful" ..

Anyway, you could like or dislike the Accord, but I don't think this is a conservative design...

ted k
Profile for ted k
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 04:30
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The sedan, now that I see some decent photos, has a very Euro look, like it's the sedan you'd see in some upscale BBC mystery series been driven to the country house. Quite charming, really, in a big, slightly overstuffed way.
LEMONed
Profile for LEMONed
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 05:36
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the NSX may not sell in record numbers, but it is understandable. how many cars does lotus or ferarri sell every year? the S2000 is different. i guess its not commonly known that the S2000 is made in very limited quantity? was it 5000 units a year for north america? this is miniscule in comparison to the endless numbers of Z3s, boxsters and miatas that are on the road. you can rest assured that each and every S2000 made every year finds an owner within that year.
donnydjr
Profile for donnydjr
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 08:00
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Honda is very businesslike, as they ARE a business.

Making statements like "now Honda only focuses on maintaining market share and won't take calcuated risks to capture new opportunities" is ridiculous. Have you seen or heard of the '03 Element?

This is a completely new vehicle for Honda and very different from anything in it's class. Honda spent tons of time researching what the youth market wants and came up with this new vehicle, of which they hope to sell 50,000 units a year. The original goal for CR-V sales in the U.S. was only 20,000 units a year.

Soon enough we will all get to actually see the Accords in person and see how the sales numbers add up.


JesusNme4evr
Profile for JesusNme4evr
Re: I'm actually getting hooked on the design! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 14:29
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I agree!!! It should be what most everyone is hoping it to be, a great vehicle with great reliability and great resale!!! I can not wait to sell them!1
evanskhan
Profile for evanskhan
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 15:40
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likewise... i was a naysayer from day one, but not for the reasons many on the board profess. unfortunately, i'm not swayed by looks. i am however, swayed by the promise of a sporty car with euro influences, but alas, honda did not deliver by a long shot. many people in my demographic cannot afford two cars, so must compromise between a 4dr and a sports car. honda STILL has not addressed the issue with the lack of a manual in their V6. from what the reviews are saying, there still is the body roll. if i want body roll i can get a 4 strut camry. honda was successful in developing a family sedan the likes of a refined camry. it is a far throw from anything euro. to end the rant. the first alleged "altezza" lights were on the lexus rx300. they looked as good then as they do now, and i severly believe they will hold well into the future. they are as much a fad as honda loyalty is. fortunately, from what is just rumors now, the tsx should fill the gaping hole honda has left in their lineup.
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Define PASSION [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 22:29
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You say Hondas lack pasion in FORM and FUNCTION! Well, you must have a really good definition.

I bought 98 Accord when it came out, and nobody claimed it was the most stylish car. In fact, it was being blasted as a bland, boring car with ridiculous back end. Five years later, I hear a different song.

You don't have to like the new exterior, but when you say something about styling, make some sense, especially when you attach it to 'passion'.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Define PASSION and CHARACTER [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 23:18
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The auto rags say that Honda lacks Passion or character. But they don't tell you what it means. They won't tell you 'cause they know it's just a pile of BS.

IMHO:

Passion is having to call the tow truck once a month because your Alfa broke down.

Passion is exchanging chrismas gifts with your auto mechanic.

Passion is spending sunday nights getting your car running.

Character is what you build when your car breaks down all the time.

Character is what you get when your girlfriend complaints that you spend more on your car than on her.

Real character is what you get when you realize you spent all that money just to keep that pile of junk running, nevermind making it nicer or better.

Character is when your car is designed so it barely idles and has a peaky drivetrain good only good between 5000 and 5500 RPM and between 80 and 85 mph. Otherwise it vibrates like hell and makes your filling fall.

Character is when your car was designed with no creature comforts whatsoever, having been designed to run LeMans and only when supported by a sleepless crew of expresso downing Italians or a batallion of Germans.

Passion and character is what auto rag writers write about when certain auto manufacturers send then on all expenses paid to car introductions in expensive locations in Europe or Africa.

Non Passion is a Honda. When I want character, I check out the ASCII codes.

I love Non Passion.

jfunk
Profile for jfunk
Pfffft... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2002 23:26
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"honda did not deliver by a long shot"

And you would know this how exactly??

Perhaps you should drive the car before desacrating it.

1. Honda never promised the Accord would convert to a true "sports sedan", though its handling has undoubtedly improved over the previous generation (already a quite competent FAMILY car).

2. It IS a FAMILY car.

3. There will always be body roll in a non-sports sedan designed for the FAMILY, who by-in-large favor ride comfort, a decent set of aftermarket springs & shocks would limit roll significantly.

4. The Accord has always outhandled the Camry.

5. Acura IS the designated luxury/performance vehicle division of Honda for the U.S..

6. The V6 sedan may well receive a manual in time, this will be based on DEMAND, I too like a manual, MOST people in the states DO NOT.

7. Altezza lights blow.

8. Honda loyalty "A fad", good one, that's funny- I've owned six Honda vehicles since my early teens, and am now thinking about tattooing a large "H" on my ass because of you.

9. "From what is just rumors" - Honda has officially filed for the patent for the "Acura TSX", it is FACT, and NOT rumor.




Enzo
Profile for Enzo
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-04-2002 00:01
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Guess what? We can't have everything we want in life. What you just told us was that you want a car that has sporty styling, enough room for a family, no body roll, altezza styling, AND make you feel like you are 18 again. Ok, why don't you just go run over to your nearest Lexus dealer and get yourself an IS300???

It's an Accord we are talking about, a sedan that has never been a sports sedan, and never will. For that, you'd have to wait for the Acura TSX. I think many people are just wanting the Accord to be "The Car" that embodies all their wishes and desires, and now that the details have come out, they have nothing to say but to want more and more. Greed is evil. Be satisfied of what is offered to you and stop making impossible wishes like a 4 door family sports car with no body roll. The closest thing to that would be a BMW M5, and if you can afford one of those things, then I don't think you'd even bother checking out this forum anyway.

P.S.: The JDM Toyota Altezza was released earlier than the Lexus RX300, which first appeared on Earth in that namesake. The Altezza was then brought to N.A. around a year and a half later as a Lexus. So technically speaking, those white-housed tailights indeed were popularized by the Tez, not the RX. Fad or trend, we'll just have to see. For some reason, big tailfins, tall spoilers come to mind....

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-04-2002 01:18
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evanskhan,

I'm not going to jump on you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I'm trying to understand the origin of some of your comments. For example, "honda did not deliver". As you've told us styling isn't too important to you, in what way are you disappointed?

I understand the desire for a manual in the V6 Sedan. Point taken. But body roll? How much body roll is too much? And how far off is the Accord? Have you driven a Passat? Is that the right amount of body roll? Dynamically the sources that have driven it say its improved over the previous car. How good it is for each of us will have to wait for a test drive. But I do like the idea of keeping the weight and size static, quickening up the steering, adding more power, etc. These are all good things in my book that are relatively objective.

Just trying to understand what you're basing your disappointment on.

SC

hybrid_crx
Profile for hybrid_crx
Re: Define PASSION and CHARACTER [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-04-2002 02:50
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i'll second that
doctor_rick
Profile for doctor_rick
Re: Not good enough [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-04-2002 17:15
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I Disagree. Honda should not and will not change the design philosophy of the Accord and the Civic. What they should do is add new models to the line-up - and they have already been doing this in the last five years with the revamped Odyssey, CR-V, the Pilot (and MDX), forthcoming Element, the in-development pickup, etc.

If you want performance, you have the RSX-R, TL-S, CL-S to chose from.

IvoG
Profile for IvoG
Re: Define PASSION and CHARACTER [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-05-2002 06:54
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tonyEsporma wrote:
The auto rags say that Honda lacks Passion or character. But they don't tell you what it means. They won't tell you 'cause they know it's just a pile of BS.

IMHO:

Passion is having to call the tow truck once a month because your Alfa broke down.
Passion is exchanging chrismas gifts with your auto mechanic.
Passion is spending sunday nights getting your car running.
Character is what you build when your car breaks down all the time.
Character is what you get when your girlfriend complaints that you spend more on your car than on her.
Real character is what you get when you realize you spent all that money just to keep that pile of junk running, nevermind making it nicer or better.
Character is when your car is designed so it barely idles and has a peaky drivetrain good only good between 5000 and 5500 RPM and between 80 and 85 mph. Otherwise it vibrates like hell and makes your filling fall.
Character is when your car was designed with no creature comforts whatsoever, having been designed to run LeMans and only when supported by a sleepless crew of expresso downing Italians or a batallion of Germans.
Passion and character is what auto rag writers write about when certain auto manufacturers send then on all expenses paid to car introductions in expensive locations in Europe or Africa.

Non Passion is a Honda. When I want character, I check out the ASCII codes.

I love Non Passion.



Nice piece of proza man! What do you do for a living?

I live in the Netherlands, and the Honda Accord is nowhere near as popular here as it is in the American continents. Those who have seen the Accord light (like myself) are very loyal and Honda owners in general rate highest for brand loyalty (return costumers).
At work I used to have daily discussions with colleagues who swear by their Golf's, Alfa's, Passat's, and Megane's. They would always say something like 'I tought we were talking cars, not lawnmowers' or osmething to that extent. It wasn't until I started hitting them with facts that this behaviour stopped. I would hear al sorts of failure stories, and just sit there smiling.
I once showed a colleague the crash test ratings for my Accord and a few other Honda's, and when he checked out his own car it turned out that it was not rated as well (see http://www.euroncap.com). That was the last time I ever heard any bad comment from him.

Am I passionate about Honda's? Damn right I am! I treasure my Accord, and will defend it against anyone, anywhere. So I guess Honda can generate passion of the right kind.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Define PASSION and CHARACTER [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-05-2002 13:28
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I write software for a living. The embedded stuff.

To me passion is what got us my wife and I two kids. Other than that, passion gets you high blood pressure ;-)

And yeah, many years ago, in the late 70s and early 80s a lot of american folks would disaparage Hondacars. I worked with one guy that went to school in Ohio and all of his buddies used to pick on his 1980 Accord until they realized that he was the one that gave them rides to the GM and Ford dealers when their cars broke down.

I used to get picked on a lot in High School in the late 70s with my little Civic CVCC.... it only stopped when those yahoos in their 4X4's realized that my little FWD station wagon could climb all kinds of snowy and rainy roads, get some real mileage and simply blow away their Trucks/Novas/Vegas/LeMans'/Challengers (etc) when the road got twisty.

Q: What's the first question an Alfa Romeo owner asks another one when they first meet?

A: "Who's your mechanic" ;=)))))

HondaJet
Profile for HondaJet
Right!. . . [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-05-2002 15:31
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PASSIONABLY UGLY ! ! !
. . .
should I have said FASHIONABLY?

Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
To danielgr [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2002 22:58
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Where in the world do you get your facts! The Civic was never the best selling car in the U.S!!!! The Camry was the best selling car in the U.S until last year, when the Accord edged it out through incentives and low rate financing.

 
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