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TOV Forums > Civic > > Re: 2005 Corolla XRS

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99SI
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2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2004 21:43
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Anybody driven one? Seems like to me that it stacks up well with the SI, and plus it uses unleaded regular. Jeff once the new civc comes out it might be nice to compare this car, the protege S, and the Civic in a head to head. Honda needs to step up and quick.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2004 23:31
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Yeah, I need to figure out how to convince the local Toyota and Mazda PR reps to loan us those cars for some honest heads up comparos. Even if I could convince those guys, I'm sure it's a hell of a tough sell to their bosses, though :)

The XRS is pretty ballsy for Toyota though. It's like a modern day GS-R sedan, right down to the hp rating. I didn't realize it only required regular unleaded, but to be fair that's not that huge of a deal. It really only results in a savings on the order of $100/year (assuming a 20 cents/gallon difference, 30mpg and ~15000 miles/year, or more simply, 10 gallons per week).


99SI wrote:
Anybody driven one? Seems like to me that it stacks up well with the SI, and plus it uses unleaded regular. Jeff once the new civc comes out it might be nice to compare this car, the protege S, and the Civic in a head to head. Honda needs to step up and quick.




Last edited by JeffX on 07-14-2004 23:32
mlody
Profile for mlody
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 09:33
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The more I hear about competition (Toyota, Nissan, domestics) the more I hate Honda for such lousy marketing, and R&D. For Godís sake, why they do not put anything decent in the Civic engine wise? On a span of 15 years, civic is only getting worst and worst performance. Letís see. 15 years ago civic LX had 92hp and weight around 2300lb. todayís LX has 115hp and weight more than 2500lb. WOW a whopping 23 hp bump over 14-15 years! Also what upsets me is that Honda is the slowest to react to the market changes. It takes them always few years to catch up on competition.
constructicon
Profile for constructicon
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 10:26
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Spec-wise, it's pretty impressive. Basically, thake the motor from a Celica GT-S and drop it into your Corolla. The only thing I don't like about it is that goofy aero package, but I can look past it.
99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 11:11
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Not to mention you can pick one up for 17 and some change. I see dealers that already have 1500 off on them ( and this is an 05). I would jump, but I am going to give honda the chance on the next civic. If they miss I will probably end up in a mazda 3, xrs, or the new twin turbo Mazda 6. The beauty of Mazda is that I can buy them at the S-plan price which means a fully loaded 3 is around 18.
anysia
Profile for anysia
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 13:01
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performane sector may be a little lacking on the civic's, but come on isn't there something to be said for being a responsible company as well? too many of us drive like jack a$$es already, so why keep adding fuel to that fire??

personally i never had any issue with the small hp numbers in either of my civic's (2000 and 2003). those cars handled better and didn't fight me in acceleration as much as an altima with 160 hp and a sentra with over 130 hp. they both also reacted better to me than the corolla i was stuck with as a rental when someone rearended my 00 civic. someitmes numbers mean squat. (ps-all of these cars are at's)

i am now a proud owner of an 04 ex accord coupe mt, 4 cyl and i have to question why in the heck anyone would actually NEED a v6 for everyday driving?? i'm as guilty as the next person is for speeding and road rage and all and i know how deadly and dumb that can be. i personally wouldn't trust myself with a v6. besides the 4cyl has about 100 times more than enough power.

i don't think it's honda that needs revamped and reprimanded for not responding to the market, i think it's the companies who keep pushing the hp limits and essentialy are advocating us to continue to go faster and faster on public roads. mod your car if you want to race and please, save it for the race tracks!

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 16:21
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I honestly think that the avg SUV driver is apt to cause more harm than anyone driving a 160-200Hp car. Now I do agree that these 300hp cars such as the STI and EVO are a bit crazy, but look at the low volume of these. I agree on the 4vs 6 for the accord sedan, no need for the extra hp. Now if Honda were to offer a tighter suspension, and a few other gooides for the 4dr with the v-6 it would be a winner. My whole problem is that Honda is not responding (yet) to a market it has dominated. Word is there is a 200hp si coming this year, which I think is a good response. I think it will be a much nicer car than say a srt-4. I would take quality over quantity. My 99 civic si does not even have so much as a rattle after over 5 years.
anysia
Profile for anysia
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 17:22
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i definitely agree that the average suv driver is apt to cause ALOT more damage. first off bigger vehicle. second off, bigger egos.... third-the sense of false confidence they get in their own driving, especially in the winter... (i bust out laughing everytime i pass one in a ditch during a snow storm!! just because you have awd and a large vehicle doesn't mean you can safely do 50mph on top of snow and ice and expect to be able to stop at the drop of a hat any better than anyone else on the road!)

I do agree that honda will need to keep up in order to survive in the performance segment because there's too many power hungry drivers. i don't think they'll let you down on that one in the coming years though. they aren't that naive.

i think in general there should be a law to limit to the amount of hp allowed in cars on public roads. you could still own a car with higher than the determined hp, but it would only be allowed on tracks and private property. i'm willing to bet plenty of people would be able to bypass the law simply by modding their car though since i doubt any law enforcement officer would really have the tools to find out anything more than the stock hp for a car. but atleast it would help end the crazy hp wars between manufacturers. the manufacturers are the ones , who in my opinion, need to be given some restrictions for the cars they are offering to the consumer.


sbrown23
Profile for sbrown23
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 18:08
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So it's the fault of the car manufacturers that people abuse the products they produce? Sounds like a recycled gun control argument to me and I disagree with the premise. Prevent the manufacturers from making anything that might hurt someone. It undermines any sense of personal responsibility and encourages dictatorship by legislation.

If a person determines that they want to drive a 300hp Mustang, then they should be held responsible and accountable for how they drive it. But they should be allowed to obtain a 300hp car if they want one.

Also, if you are going to legislate engine power, then what's next? Handling/suspensions? After all, no road car really NEEDS to hit 1.0g on a 300-ft skidpad. That just encourages people to take turns too fast and drive unsafely cutting in and out of traffic. Outlaw all stock sport suspensions and suspension upgrades on road cars.

Then what... no luxury cars over 3000 lbs. After all, no one NEEDS a Mercedes S-class or Cadillac Escalade that has a bunch of excess luxuries and a big v-8 engine. People should be able to get by with smaller, less powerful cars that don't lead to speeding and distracted driving with all the creature comforts.

Then what... wheels? 17" wheels are not needed on road cars, especially when you get better mileage on 15's. Outlaw any wheels 16" or larger in order to save the environment and prevent unsafe driving.

Slippery slope. It becomes like the state government here in California, wanting to run people's lives more and more through laws. They already tried to pass an SUV tax to stop people from buying SUVs. A fast food tax to try and stop people from eating fast food. Higher cigarette taxes. More alcohol taxes. Soda taxes. They have tried to control people thru taxes and laws. Luckily public outrage has stopped these ones so far. But the day will come when one passes. Then another. Then legislation controlling engine output, and so on... government already tells us how to live too much.

brittho
Profile for brittho
Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2004 22:17
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Nice post. I was waiting for a "W in '04" at the end of the post but no luck. ;-) Maybe the Governator will help to turn things around for you guys on the West Coast! hehe


***Politics are probably not allowed so I will offer my apology in advance for displaying such behavior!***


anysia
Profile for anysia
Re: Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 07:47
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it could turn into a dictatorship like state if you aren't careful, BUT someone has to start exuding some control here. whether it's the people who blatanly disregard traffic laws on public roads deciding it's time ot actually obey them or someone else finds a way to better control them,i don't care. fine, let the hp stick, lower the rev/speed limiters on cars to match the highest speed limit for you country. why do we even need a car that can go 120+mph in the us?? there are no public roads in this country where that is a legal speed limit. sometimes public safety should come first over the individual's need for speed and power. i think that is the point that is being missed here.

i don't know how many times i hear ofsomeone being killed by some punk flying down a 35 mph road at 60 or better (and usually the deceased is NOT the punk. it's some poor driver who was cruising along at 35 when the idiot lost control by flying around a bend and ended up in oncoming traffic.) or how about the guy weaving in and out of heavy traffic on the highway when traffic is moving between 55-65mph and he's flying thru at 90 or better? (yes, i have actually tried to catch up to these people before in my own stupidity and desire to find out exactly how fast they were going.)

my accord coupe attracts so much attention from every single idiot on the road it's insane. i've had the car for a month and every souped up car on the road will pull up next to me and rev their engine at a light and try to race me down the road. (i never drew this attention in my civic sedan... maybe that's a clue here.) is trying to prove your car is better than my car really neccessary in rush hour traffic people? is it neccessary in ANY traffic or on any public road? (and for the record, i have not raced any of these people. i am trying to be a more responsible driver. usually road rage gets the best of me, but i am really working on controlling that.)

typesean
Profile for typesean
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 08:29
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mlody wrote:
The more I hear about competition (Toyota, Nissan, domestics) the more I hate Honda for such lousy marketing, and R&D. For Godís sake, why they do not put anything decent in the Civic engine wise? On a span of 15 years, civic is only getting worst and worst performance. Letís see. 15 years ago civic LX had 92hp and weight around 2300lb. todayís LX has 115hp and weight more than 2500lb. WOW a whopping 23 hp bump over 14-15 years! Also what upsets me is that Honda is the slowest to react to the market changes. It takes them always few years to catch up on competition.


If you look at the HP gain in percentage terms (92HP to 115HP). It comes out to 25%.

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 08:57
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I am not sure that putting a limiter on cars would do any good unless you limit it to 35-40mph. If you were to limit a car to 70mph you would still have the idiot doing 70 in a 35. The only thing that will work is increased enforcement. Cops in my area know where and when street racing takes place and they bust the hell out of people every weekend. I think if every decen city built a car park, ie had a racetrack, drag strip, and autocross setup it would kill alot of this. I am not going to say that I have not had a little fun w/ somebody at a stoplight, but I never go so far as to endanger myself or the public. It is just really nice that you are able to pass people on two lane roads w/o fear of being hit. If the gov't needs to intervene anywhere it is fuel economy, and emissions. These days of 13mpg SUV's with one driver are nuts. I would suggest an excess gas/emissions/road use tax on any vehicle over 5000 lbs unless one can prove that they have something to tow, (ie documented ownership of a boat, trailer etc...) and also have an exemption for trucks used in a business. Or if the vehicle can manage 22+mpg hwy it should be exempt. Maybe this would deter demand of people who really don't need a full blown SUV. I do understand there are many people who do. I vote for the station wagon days to come back. I would not be ashamed to drive a Mazda6 wagon.
mlody
Profile for mlody
Re: Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 09:23
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I believe that the only thing that government/state should control is stricter exams and road test to obtain driverís license. Come on everyone knows that to obtain DL in US is just a joke. Tests are made in few languages so people without knowing English can pass tests, but on the road they do not know what does (ďDO NOT TURNĒ) mean, but they are authorized to drive any car (up to certain weight limit I believe) That is insane. Then on the other hand, you have people who borrow someoneís car to pass a road test (letís say small car), but the next day, they go and buy a big a** SUV and have no clue how that thing behaves under different road conditions. US tests do not mention anything about different cars' characteristics (books only mention that it takes longer to stop on snow than on a dry road! Wow what a brainstorm), but nothing about accidental maneuvers etc. It is harder to get a bike license then a car license in the US, and normally people who drive bikes know more than just average car drivers about driving etc. At least they know how to drive manual cars! I just really wish that DL wasnít that easily attainable. It should at least take half a year to master driving skills to become a driver. In addition, state should enforce required maintenance checkup on every car every year, just like most countries in Europe do. Here, you see cars left and right with burned lights, bumpers/mufflers being dragged on streets, broken windows taped etc. It is just insane.
sbrown23
Profile for sbrown23
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 11:01
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Good point typesean. The 1989 Civic LX had a power to weight ratio of 24.0 lbs/hp (2211 lbs and 92 hp). The 2004 has a power to weight ratio of 22.6 lbs/hp (2560 lbs and 115hp). How can you complain about the car getting heavier, when power has increased and a quicker rate?

Also, consider that the 1989 LX got 31mpg in the city and 36 on the highway. The 2004 gets 32 in the city and 38 on the highway.

So the new Civic is a larger, more powerful, heavier car, with a BETTER power to weight ratio, with more features, better safety and the engine STILL gets better gas mileage! Why exactly is mlody complaining again???

sbrown23
Profile for sbrown23
Re: Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 11:37
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99SI wrote:
If the gov't needs to intervene anywhere it is fuel economy, and emissions. These days of 13mpg SUV's with one driver are nuts. I would suggest an excess gas/emissions/road use tax on any vehicle over 5000 lbs unless one can prove that they have something to tow, (ie documented ownership of a boat, trailer etc...) and also have an exemption for trucks used in a business. Or if the vehicle can manage 22+mpg hwy it should be exempt. Maybe this would deter demand of people who really don't need a full blown SUV. I do understand there are many people who do. I vote for the station wagon days to come back. I would not be ashamed to drive a Mazda6 wagon.


Why should the government intervene on fuel economy and not hp? If the person driving the vehicle can afford the gas, then what is the problem? Here again you say "this would deter demans of people who really don't need a full blown SUV." More control of people's lives thru legislation and taxes. If you are going to go that far, why not just outright ban 5000 lb SUVs unless people can prove they need it. Why give them the illusion that they have a choice?

And why are you concentrating on SUVs only? What about the Ferrari that gets 12mpg? Or any other sports car. No one NEEDS one of those. If someone can afford to pay for the gas, then I say let them spend $100/week at the pump. I can't afford it, thus I drive a Civic and average 35+ mpg.

Do we extend it to homes next? Extra taxes on anyone with a house larger than 2000 square feet? No one needs a house that large. It takes more energy to heat and cool houses that large. Make them pay too. After all, if they have a house that large, they probably have a big car with a big V8 too.

You vote for the station wagon days to come back so people won't drive huge SUVs... well, there's one vote. I don't think enough people want them though. Should manufacturers be forced by the government to make them because they get better mileage? Why did they go away in the first place? Because people preferred SUVs and minivans as they generally didn't look as ld and dumpy compared to most station wagons.

Let's look at another government regulation that flopped. The electric car. Government in the US tried to mandate that 10% of all car sales eventually be electric cars. Only problem was, no one wanted them! Who wants a car that has to charge for hours, running up your electric bill, has a range of 80 miles or less, huge batteries that take up all your storage room, and costs anywhere from 2-5 times as much as a regular gas or diesel car? NO ONE. Electric cars are dead. Now, sales of hybrid gas-electric cars are taking off (Civic, Prius, and soon the Escape Hybrid) because the cars get great mileage, have adequate power and room, and are actually affordable. People who want to conserve gas can do it at a reasonable price, but they are not having technology that doesn't work jammed down their throats by the federal government. The marketplace has come up with solid technology that people want.

ftmjohn
Profile for ftmjohn
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 13:48
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Ok then! What about europe where gas taxes are very high, like 75% of the price, and where displacement is taxes, 1.8 Liter and 2.0 L are the only one that are not taxed, everything over that gets a additionnal tax when buying the cars and then another when registering it. But being like it is there, they have alot of exiting cars that we dont even have here CTR, ITR anyone?

HP is one thing, balance of HP and weight is another, and i would prefer something that is well balanced and fun to drive rather than big HP and awfull driving. Besides, with big HP cars, you cant even us all that power because it would cost to much for gas.

John

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 14:37
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I guess my retort would be how many ferraris are sold vs suv's? Why even bother.

Taxes on homes are already higher due to the value being related to the sq ft of the house. And once you get over say 3000sq ft the value per sqft jumps even higher. Trust me my taxes more than doubled when moving from a 2200sqft house to a 3200 sq ft house. But the electic bill did not.

The electric car deal was very premature too many kinks to work out. I bet if an electric car was made that would go 300-400 miles between charges and charge in say 30mins it would go over well. Local companies here give a discounted rate for energy used to charge an electric vehicle. something like 67% less than the std rate.

I agree gov't shouldn't have too much control, but face it, some people need someone to think for them. What would we do w/o welfare? Personally I don't care if someone wants to spend 40k oops I mean 30K after rebates on a Tahoe to haul one person in and live in a mobile home. There are always going to be people that blow money they don't have and don't care to look at the all around deal. This is a fact of life. I guess what will seal the deal is our free market. When gas goes up to 3/gal then suv sales will drop unless the mfgs start making vehicles that get better mileage (government intervention or not)

To the comment about wagons - I agree but I have to disagree on the looks. Most SUV's and wagons all look like boxes. But the newer wagons are much more stylish than any suv.

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 15:46
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BTW - Has anybody driven this car yet? Politics aside.
whip
Profile for whip
Re: Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 18:15
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Thats just what we need, more laws telling us what we can or can't drive.I thought this logic was why the pilgrims came to this country in the first place.How would most people in this forum react if the government decides to ban / tax imports like Honda? Does anybody need an S2000 or a NSX?The answer is no. With your logic they should be banned or taxed.It's a free country.Drive what you want to drive and I'll do the same.
Mr.Candlestick
Profile for Mr.Candlestick
Re: Elect sbrown23 for your California Senator!    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2004 20:09
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Your idea of asserting control should also consider the posibility that the existing system is broken. 55-65 mph is ridiculously slow, virtually no one drives that slow on rural highways. The problem is that those few who do snarl up the natural flow of traffic. They cause congestion, frustration and dangerous situations - yes Im talking about those few who OBEY they speed limits on highways.

Before you argue, consider that the system in Europe works. They drive much faster than us, in much narrower lanes (in many cases) and have far fewer accidents. In as much as we need to stop reckless driving (there are already laws for that) we need to address the underlying problems that facilitate this behaviour. The system IS broken, unless you think that perhaps its intended purpose is to generate revenue instead of promote safety - in that case the system works just fine.

Do yourself and everyone else a favor, the next time you find yourself suffering from "road rage" because someone is doing 90 in a 65, just move to the right and let them pass - because thats the law. And that person is likely as annoyed by other drivers ignoring this law, as you are at them for ignoring the speed limit.

Ramp Signal
Profile for Ramp Signal
Re: XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2004 12:31
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Had a brief test drive. It comes up a bit short of being a '99 Civic Si replacement, but its heart is in the right place.

- Torque curve is basically flat--the transition to the high-lift cam generates a lot of noise (not as sweet as the old Si's) but doesn't add thrust. Still, an 8200 RPM redline is no bad thing.
- The traditional 2ZZ gear ratio problem (in a Celica GT-S, you drop out of the high-lift powerband on every shift) probably doesn't matter so much with the newly adjusted torque curve, but it still *sounds* wrong.
- Shifter is a bit vague. The clutch pedal action is the lightest I've ever encountered.
- Steering is sharper than a regular Corolla, but there's still too much body roll.
- The interior is acceptable, but nothing special. The front seats are quite comfortable.

It's a decent effort, but I'd rather see a new Celica.

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2004 16:18
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Thanks for the reply. I can't beleive Toyota geared a car so badly, I did drive the GT-S when it first came out, and ot just did not feel right for this reason. Hopefully when the 05 Civic comes out I won't have to look to Mazda and Toyota anymore for a sporty sub compact. Since I have read your review and C&D's recent review on the XRS I probably won't bother with the XRS, however the Mazda 3 still seems tempting.
dechster
Profile for dechster
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2004 23:45
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I agree with your premise that people need to take a hard look at themselves and their driving behavior instead of punishing manufacturers. But still, like John Stuart Mill believed, why not tax luxuries such as alcohol, cigarettes, big, expensive SUV's sitting on 20's, etc...They are luxuries after all, no one really needs them. No one is saying outlaw these things, just be prepared to pony up the extra money. I know I would be willing. Plus, that pesky budget crisis wouldn't be such a big deal.
anysia
Profile for anysia
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2004 17:48
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that reminds me of how uptight every single smoker gets in pa when they hike the taxes on cigarettes!! :)

they complain about how difficult it already is to squeeze the carton of cigs into their budget. well, it's not a necessity.if you don't like the cost, kick the habit! hey, i don't complain when they add/increase taxes to things that i choose to do-amusement taxes, parking taxes, alcohol taxes, etc. if i want to have a drink, i just have to pay for it. it's not a necessity that i go out and have a drink on a friday night, so if it doesn't fit into my budget, i just don't do it.

(gotta really love the people on welfare with food stamps and all who spend $40 on a carton of cigarettes atleast once a week!)

off on a tangent there! oops! :)


CivicEX00'
Profile for CivicEX00'
Re: 2005 Corolla XRS    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-04-2004 20:47
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I haven't driven one yet, but my one friend works at Toyota, and he got to drive one, he said its pretty ballsy compared to the regualr corolla. They put the same motor from the Celica GTS, but they dropped about 10 HP so it would have better low end pick up. I was reading up on it in the new Sport Compact this week. It's not a big article but it tells a little about it. It looks just like the Corolla S, But I have to agree that it will definatly stand up the the SI. Personally I would buy a corolla XRS only for the fact that its a corolla, its the same car my sister drives. But from what i've heard its pretty decent, its just not for me.

 
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