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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying - Driver Excuses!

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IntegraDC5R
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SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 2, Informative) 05-22-2004 05:05
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Well this is from Pre-qual Practice2

P. No Driver Team - Engine Tyres Times Ave/Gaps Laps
1. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'14"014 162.456 Km/h 13
2. 7 TRULLI Renault M 1'14"016 + 0'00"002 16
3. 10 SATO BAR Honda M 1'14"020 + 0'00"006 20
4. 8 ALONSO Renault M 1'14"138 + 0'00"124 13
5. 3 MONTOYA Williams BMW M 1'14"212 + 0'00"198 9
6. 9 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'14"646 + 0'00"632 15
7. 5 COULTHARD McLaren Mercedes M 1'14"670 + 0'00"656 11
8. 4 R.SCHUMACHER Williams BMW M 1'14"752 + 0'00"738 12
9. 6 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'15"034 + 0'01"020 14
10. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'15"174 + 0'01"160 14
11. 11 FISICHELLA Sauber Petronas B 1'15"709 + 0'01"695 11
12. 16 DA MATTA Toyota M 1'15"861 + 0'01"847 21
13. 15 KLIEN Jaguar Cosworth M 1'16"101 + 0'02"087 19
14. 12 MASSA Sauber Petronas B 1'16"332 + 0'02"318 16
15. 18 HEIDFELD Jordan Ford B 1'16"385 + 0'02"371 12
16. 17 PANIS Toyota M 1'16"699 + 0'02"685 11
17. 19 PANTANO Jordan Ford B 1'16"700 + 0'02"686 17
18. 14 WEBBER Jaguar Cosworth M 1'17"173 + 0'03"159 4
19. 21 BAUMGARTNER Minardi Cosworth B 1'19"467 + 0'05"453 9

Looking good, but it is going to be close in just under 2 hours. Nice lap from Sato, Button was missing out on sector 2 by about .6 seconds.

Chris

HONDA FANATIC
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 05:49
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yeah BAR's struggle badly in sector 2. if they improve this, I can guarantee a poll.

one thing worth mentioning is that, at almost every circuit, BAR's post exceptional Sector 1's but then loose out in Sectors 2 and 3. I wonder why is this?? sector 1 in most cases means u need engine punch coming on back straight .. maybe aero is not good enough??

IntegraDC5R
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 2, Informative) 05-22-2004 07:35
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Qualifying 1 Results--

P. No Driver Team - Engine Tyres Times Ave/Gaps Laps
1. 4 R.SCHUMACHER Williams BMW M 1'14"483 161.433 Km/h 3
2. 6 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'14"659 + 0'00"176 3
3. 5 COULTHARD McLaren Mercedes M 1'14"728 + 0'00"245 3
4. 9 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'14"799 + 0'00"316 3
5. 11 FISICHELLA Sauber Petronas B 1'14"814 + 0'00"331 3
6. 8 ALONSO Renault M 1'14"816 + 0'00"333 3
7. 10 SATO BAR Honda M 1'14"931 + 0'00"448 3
8. 7 TRULLI Renault M 1'14"993 + 0'00"510 3
9. 3 MONTOYA Williams BMW M 1'15"029 + 0'00"546 3
10. 17 PANIS Toyota M 1'15"125 + 0'00"642 3
11. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'15"329 + 0'00"846 3
12. 12 MASSA Sauber Petronas B 1'15"436 + 0'00"953 3
13. 16 DA MATTA Toyota M 1'15"738 + 0'01"255 3
14. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'15"927 + 0'01"444 3
15. 14 WEBBER Jaguar Cosworth M 1'16"161 + 0'01"678 3
16. 15 KLIEN Jaguar Cosworth M 1'16"379 + 0'01"896 3
17. 19 PANTANO Jordan Ford B 1'17"674 + 0'03"191 3

Remember no matter where Ralf finishes in the next qualifying he moves down 10 spots. I am curious to see how the Macs will do with more fuel.

HONDA FANATIC
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 08:30
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as always Sato has wasted it. BAR's luck suck big time. they cant do laps when matter.
HONDA FANATIC
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 08:37
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yo baby front row. plz rakka dun do it
IntegraDC5R
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 2, Informative) 05-22-2004 08:44
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P. No Driver Team - Engine Tyres Times Ave/Gaps Laps
1. 7 TRULLI Renault M 1'13"985 162.519 Km/h 3
2. 9 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'14"396 + 0'00"411 3
3. 8 ALONSO Renault M 1'14"408 + 0'00"423 3
4. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'14"516 + 0'00"531 3
5. 6 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'14"592 + 0'00"607 3
6. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'14"716 + 0'00"731 3
7. 10 SATO BAR Honda M 1'14"827 + 0'00"842 3
8. 5 COULTHARD McLaren Mercedes M 1'14"951 + 0'00"966 3
9. 3 MONTOYA Williams BMW M 1'15"039 + 0'01"054 3
10. 11 FISICHELLA Sauber Petronas B 1'15"352 + 0'01"367 3
11. 14 WEBBER Jaguar Cosworth M 1'15"725 + 0'01"740 3
12. 17 PANIS Toyota M 1'15"859 + 0'01"874 3
13. 15 KLIEN Jaguar Cosworth M 1'15"919 + 0'01"934 3
14. 16 DA MATTA Toyota M 1'16"169 + 0'02"184 3
15. 12 MASSA Sauber Petronas B 1'16"248 + 0'02"263 3
16. 18 HEIDFELD Jordan Ford B 1'16"488 + 0'02"503 3
17. 19 PANTANO Jordan Ford B 1'17"443 + 0'03"458 3
18. 21 BAUMGARTNER Minardi Cosworth B 1'20"060 + 0'06"075 3
19. 20 BRUNI Minardi Cosworth B 1'20"115 + 0'06"130 3

Well Sato came in hot and hit the gator to his right in braking upsetting the car enough that he lost about .3-.4seconds. So they start 2 and 7. Not so bad. I hope Trulli pits kind of early, because that was the fastest lap all weekend!!!!

IntegraDC5R
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 2, Informative) 05-22-2004 09:10
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The top 8 finishers sector times---

JT 19.5 36.7 17.7
RS 19.5 36.9 17.9
JB 19.4 37.0 17.8
FA 19.5 36.8 18.0
MS 19.4 37.0 18.0
KR 19.6 36.9 17.9
RB 19.4 37.1 18.0
TS 19.3 37.4 17.9

As you can see Sato lost it in sector 2 coming out of the tunnel, breaking too late and then hitting the curbing. He may of been starting from possibly P2, but oh well, shit happens, ask Button from the last race. Still the team is looking good, but so is that damn Renault. At least MS is starting from 4th, that is wonderful news for F1, since it is almost impossible to pass at Monaco, and I think even Ferrari might be one of the earlier pitters tomorrow. Most definitely is going to be an interesting race. Hopefully nothing happens into turn 1, well at least nothing till after P8 gets through.

Neilap
Profile for Neilap
Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 09:13
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Button in typical style remained calm and put in a good lap. Trulli I would assume is running pretty light and the Renault must have been built for this track! Damn good job by that team.

Am I the only one pissed at Sato? He was quicker than JB in the first sector. If he had kept his sh!t together there could have been two BAR's in the press conference. Anyway, still a great job by BAR Honda. The car seems to handle better than most!! Even Hobbs was praising the new motor too. I have to say he has accepted that Honda has one of the best motors in F1 today.

It was kinda funny what he said about Trulli looking like a poodle!! Also what he said about the Williams team concerning RS was pretty funny too.

Sato! Got get it together man. You had possibly your best qualifying to date in your hands and let it slip away. I want to see Honda do well if replacing him makes them better then do so. Ant, was going pretty well!!

IntegraDC5R
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 09:27
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Neil come on with the Sato smashing. Yeah I am one of his biggest supporters and I yelled PHUCK with his mistake. Nobody slammed Button when he screwed up last race and ended up 14th on the grid instead of possibly on the first or second row. Sato is still starting from 7th tomorrow. He has been brilliant all weekend, I will continue to stand by him as will Honda and BAR. It was a minor mistake that cost him dearly, but as I said SHIT HAPPENS, just move on, your life is not going to be altered for the worse or better anyways, no matter what happens.
Stephen
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 10:49
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Yeah, I was disappointed in Sato but still he recovered well to finish 7th/8th. He also had the fastest 1st sector time.

I think the Ferraris are running heavy....MS ran a 14.0 earlier, and the team looked happy with his 14.5. We'll see! Maybe Ferrari are pulling a crazy 1 stop?

Best of luck to our boys tomorrow...lets hope Trulli was running on fumes...

Laenra
Profile for Laenra
Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 11:40
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It is awesome to be on the front row, but I am thinking that Button will move backwards tommorrow. I see both Renaults getting to the first corner before our man which means Jens runs third through the first stint. Because passing is impossible the pit stops become more important and BAR has been bad in that area this year. Every time they pit Button could drop a spot or two, leaving him finishing back in 5th or 6th. I hope I am wrong.

Anything can happen so starting near the front puts you in good position. Hopefully the Renaults pit early and get stuck behind slow cars for several laps while Button blisters the track and takes the lead after the stops. I can hardly wait!

I am thrilled with Ferrari starting back on the 2nd and 3rd rows. I will be happy to see anything but a red car cross the line first. Ferrari dominance is getting boring.

After suffering through 3 horrid seasons this year has been fantastic. I can't believe how well we are doing. This is great!

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 11:42
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Yeah and also note that despite his mistake and loss of time/pace, he is still faster than JPM, Coulthard, both the Jaguars, all of whom got in their optimum laps (without a mistake) !
Neilap
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 12:31
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But guys, he could have been in the top two or three!! Maybe my expectations are too high but I dont have much tolerance for mental errors. Sato hit the brakes while on the curb and messed up what could have been a great lap. Yeah, I was pissed when Button messed up too but there was speculation that there was a tire issue so I held my tongue. Also, JB has been bringing the goods all year. Sato has had bad luck and then when the opportunity arrised he messed up. No, I wont lose sleep over it but it still sucks. Does anyone think the team is telling Sato its ok. No, they are telling him where is messed up and how he needs to stay focused. Yes, he did amazingly well to recover the car. I thought he had lost it for sure. I am not bashing him but I think people are too easy on him here. The man is as fast as JB over one lap but does not seem mentally at his level. I am not a Sato or JB fan, I like Honda. If anyone is costing the team points then I dont have a problem saying so.

To give him credit, he has been much better than I had expected. The whole team has been better. However, with the improved performance comes higher expectations. Maybe I am alone in feeling like that, thats fine. Like I said my blood pressure is not up, trust me ;). I just expect drivers to be at their best. Its their job. If a mechanic forgot to tighten a bolt that cost Sato 5 tenths he would be in the dog house!

As for the race, I hope JB gets the best start of his career. The Renault is not faster than the BAR but he will not be able to pass Trulli. If JB gets the lead I expect him to leave the field behind.

Great to see the strenght of the motor up hill!!

Neilap
Profile for Neilap
Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 2, Informative) 05-22-2004 12:37
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Even Sato is not forgiving himself!!
"It's a great shame because I was on a really good lap until I had a moment in sector two coming off the kerb. I wasn't able to pick up grip straight away so I locked up into the chicane after the tunnel. Everything locked up - the front and the rears and I lost a lot of time. This unsettled me in sector three also. I'm not very happy because I could have been closer to the front row today, but I have to be positive and rely on what I think will be a strong strategy for tomorrow's race."

I think I sound too angry when I write. I dont mean to. Now I feel like I have to use a lot of :) and ;) to show I am easy like Sunday morning. ;), ;), :)...

soniccar
Profile for soniccar
Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 12:46
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I don't think MS is running a 1 stop, but running hard tires, he probably is going out on a long first stint to get good laps in without traffic. If he averages 0.8-1.0 laps / second faster while everyone else is pitting, and he stays out 5-8 laps more, he will probably gain a few positions there, maybe P1. However, no matter what fuel load Renault had, 1:13's is absolutely crazy. I'll bet anything he made it up by going flat out through swimming pool.

Trulli just mashed the gas at the start of Imola, drag race style. If he is not careful, he may "red light" one day.

Neilap
Profile for Neilap
Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 13:05
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Quote from DR...

Of course where you start here is critical, but the first round of stops will I am sure spring a few surprises


Wonder what he means by that?

notyper
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 13:18
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IMO Neil, your entire post was spot on. Not often that I have nothing to add ;)

SC

Neilap wrote:
But guys, he could have been in the top two or three!! Maybe my expectations are too high but I dont have much tolerance for mental errors....


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Roger1
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying - Driver Excuses!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 13:59
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Holy crap... I drag and dropped a sentence by accident and the first paragraph completely screwed up (incomprehensible). No way to edit a post it seems. So let me repost (1st paragraph corrected)...

Come on guys, NO EXCUSES!!! Stop with this "it's only his 3rd year, 2nd year as driver, blah blah blah". Fine, I accept that, and I have given him a lot of support and cheering and understanding. But race after race Takuma either drives really slow or makes mistakes everywhere. Sato was the only driver to make a serious driver error in all of qualifying at Monaco. He needs to shape up or ship out. There are millions and millions of dollars being spent here, and a lot of things at stake at BAR, and at Michelin, and at Honda, etc. This is not exactly training ground for rookies. We are a top team and need the top drivers.

Jenson's mistake at Spain qualifying was also a real waste for BAR Honda. The rest of the lap was good enough for pole position or at the very least 2nd on the grid. No one else made a serious driver error during qualifying there either to my recollection. Come on, we need some great drivers at BAR Honda. Jenson is consistent enough most of the time, so I'm glad we have him on board. Takuma on the other hand needs to improve, and he needs to improve NOW.

Imagine what someone like Kimi Raikkonen could do in the current BAR Honda.

We are now a top performing car, as good as Ferrari. If only we had top drivers. If Michael Schumacher was driving the BAR006 instead of the F2004, we would be on pole and winning races (and the championship). I find this to be a very annoying thought.

Fingers crossed for Jenson Button victory at Monaco tomorrow! Starting on 2nd row, he has a good chance! If Jarno Trulli is on a lighter fuel load, Jenson can put in some blistering fast laps before he goes into the pits, and then hopefully come out in front of Jarno. That is assuming BAR can actually do a fast pit stop for once :(

magueto
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying - Driver Excuses!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 14:16
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Roger1 wrote:
[I
Fingers crossed for Jenson Button victory at Monaco tomorrow! Starting on 2nd row, he has a good chance!


Jense will star in the second position, first row!!!!

magueto
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 14:42
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My opinion of Taku in this moment, at least that he show me the contrary in the future, is that he is showing his second driver character. He is showing to the team that he is not a driver the team can trust in the critical moments and the team needed most. Taku is great tester, a really hard worker, but he is not mentally strong enough to support the pressure of moments like today or in Spain, with his third position.

Today, I donít expect him on pole, but at least in front of the Ferraris or between them, but not behind. Taku was fast today, faster than Jense in the practices, because was not a really pressure, but whit pressure, Taku is different driver.

The drivers are responsible of his fortunes and Taku show today to everybody, including Honda, his big supporter, that he is not good enough to receive the same support than Jense because he make mistake to often, unfortunately for him.

For Taku, something is clear, he is the best Japanese driver of all times, bu he needs to raise his game big time, if he wants to continue driving in F1 next year.


All my hopes are intact for a possible win tomorrow.

h4lf
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 17:36
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Moving on from the driver bashing..

Renault have the fastest launch control on the grid and usually overtake at least one car. Alonso is starting from behind Jenson. If Alonso gets in front of Jenson he can and will control the pace (and is slower than Trulli at this track) and Trulli will be off, out of sight.

Jenson better try his damned hardest to keep Alonso behind him or there ain't gonna be a big ass BAR party tonight :)

Karl O.
Profile for Karl O.
Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 18:11
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We must all be patient with Taku. I seem to remember a time when a certain younger Schumacher brother could not make it past the third lap of a race without ramming his Jordan into somebody else. The commentators seemed to think that he had no chance to stay in F1. Compare Taku now with the early days of RS or a Michael Andretti and clearly TS looks like a champion in the making.


Roger1
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 19:07
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Both Ralf Schumacher and Michael Andretti are total losers in the F1 arena. Michael was the classic failed driver, and Ralf will never win a championship. If Takuma needs another 1 or 2 years to learn, he needs to do it at Jordan or Jaguar or some lesser team. BAR is almost ready to win the championship, and we need top drivers to give us consistent results. Renault have 2 very fast and consistent drivers... BAR Honda has only 1. We need constructors points!
IntegraDC5R
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 20:25
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We need? Again as I stated early, your life changes neither better nor worse depending on how or where Honda finishes. Yeah inside of us all, we are big supporters and fans, but even if they win the championship what will it actually bring you? Think, think, think oh yeah NOTHING actually.

I was really pissed and upset at his mistake, I think moreso because I knew that he was going to take a bashing just like this. And Roger he constantly drives slow? Please explain that one. His lap times in the race are comparable to JBs.

Magueto he can't take the pressure, funny watching him at Suzuka last year, jumping in the car at the last minute and holding his ground on MS in the final chicane. Or the few times he has been pressured from other drivers this season and he has held his ground and looked like a strong driver. I will give that up with the error in Bahrain with JB following, though JB wasn't pressuring him, it was definitely a mistake.

Maybe I am alone in my thoughts about Taku and his driving abilities. If that is the case then so be it, but I know this guy has what it takes, you all shall see. Keep the bashing coming and I won't take it personally anymore, as I should follow my own typing, it doesn't impact my life actually if people bash him left and right and whether or not Honda win.

Good day to all, well night I guess, it is early morning here.

Chris

BAR006
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying - Driver Excuses!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 20:46
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Roger1 wrote:
Holy crap... I drag and dropped a sentence by accident and the first paragraph completely screwed up (incomprehensible). No way to edit a post it seems. So let me repost (1st paragraph corrected)...

No excuses Roger1 ...... this is a top line forum that is gunning for a world championship now. This isn't a training ground for rookies .... we can't afford to carry people like yourself around if you can't make the grade. You need to post at a lesser forum like motorsport.com, get your act together and come back here to post :)
On a serious note, I have to admit to being frustrated by Sato as he had looked so good all week. Still, at least he didn't plant it into the barriers and neither did he make as complete a mess of qualifying as Alonso and Button have done this year (with both these gents having a shot at pole). Looks like he was driving on the limit and made a mistake ..... Button has said that BAR are fighting some understeer all week. At least he made a mistake having a red hot go, not holding back and being ultra conservative.

BAR006 better than the F2004? Big call given the thrashing Ferrari have given everyone else on the grid prior to this race. One race does not make a season and I bet if you asked JB which car he would drive if he had a choice, it would be the F2004. I know everyone is impatient for results but BAR have not won a race yet so a championship is not even on the radar from where I sit.

Maybe the 006 could have won a race or two with MS on board but would this be an achievement for BAR, Honda or MS? Doing it the easy way was not on the drawing board for Honda this time around, otherwise they would not have gone with BAR in the first place. That makes the improvement all the more satisfying.

BAR have improved because they have made their mistakes, learnt from them and worked damn hard to improve. Its easy to forget JB's dark days at Benetton/Renault in his 2nd and 3rd years but he came out of them an undoubtedly better driver. I'll cut Sato some slack and assess him at the end of the season.





IntegraDC5R
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying - Driver Excuses!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 20:56
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BAR006 wrote:
No excuses Roger1 ...... this is a top line forum that is gunning for a world championship now. This isn't a training ground for rookies .... we can't afford to carry people like yourself around if you can't make the grade. You need to post at a lesser forum like motorsport.com, get your act together and come back here to post :)




That was great! Made me chuckle a little.

Isamu
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 20:57
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I hear ya Integra. Some in here are very eager to punce on Sato. I think the guy is performing ok but he is showing signs of brilliance. I hope he puts it all together soon so some of you will revise your thoughts. Sato is the goods and this is coming from someone who would prefer Villeneuve in the seat
BAR006
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 21:04
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No Chris, you are not alone. There is at least one other person that thinks like you.

We're probably as popular as Dracula at the blood bank right now but Sato has that intangible something about him. I understand his style does lean towards overdriving in finding the limits of a car. However, once he gets a handle on where that limit is, he flies. The only problem with this is that, unlike British F3, you don't often get a chance to learn in F1 ..... every race is a showcase of your ability/potential. Like I said in a previous post, I'll cut the guy some slack and make my mind up at the end of the season.

Roger1
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Re: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER MonacoGP Qualifying - Driver Excuses!    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2004 22:37
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Next time I hope you know how to read or comprehend. Another poster who completely lacks logic and rationality.

First of all I don't appreciate that insult. My mouse button clicks on its own, so I blame mechanical error. :) But seriously, that was stupid.

I never said the BAR006 is better than the F2004. I said if Michael was driving the BAR006 instead of the F2004, he would be getting pole positions and race wins. There is a difference, unless you have the logic of a small rodent.

It's not a matter of who's achievement it was or would be. It is a matter of the entire package, including the driver. Takuma is a weak spot in the package, and certainly a driver like Kimi Raikkonen or Fernando Alonso would be doing a significantly better job than he is. Constructors points are at stake here, and each race that is a "learning opportunity" for Takuma, is more points lost for BAR Honda in the constructors.


 
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