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  TOV News > Report from Detroit Day 1: The 2004 NAIAS > > Re: Honda vs. The Rest

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Profile for TonyEX
Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2004 14:13
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I posted this in the general discussion thread... but that's so general, that I'd think I'd post here too.... Maybe Jeff et al can ruminate on this while they freeze their butts over there

At the LA Auto show, one of the things that really stood out clearly.... at least from my engineer's and cheap skate's point of view is that Honda and Toyota are really way out there in product quality.

Sit in an MDX after trying the X5 and Jeepsters and you'll immediately realize that you got elbowroom and footroom, plus incredibly NATURAL ERGONOMICS. Ditto for Toyota.

Also, I noticed that every Honda product offers tremendous VALUE when compared to the competition. Not even Toyota can match this. Every Honda car sells for 15% less or so than the competition when similarly outfitted. The MDX and TL beat BMW, Audi, VeeDub, Benz, etc.... not only on value for also on far, FAR superior ergonomics.

Don't even get me going on the hybrid and fuel cell technologies. The LPG Civic is now available to the public. Sure it costs 23K, but you can get a home refueling station and YOU CAN RIDE THE CAR POOL LANES SOLO.... Now, I'd pay 50K for a car in which I could ride in the car pool lanes by myself. If you've driven in the LA Basin.... that car is worth it's weight in "lost time in gridllock" gold.

The Hondacars -Honda and Acura-, in particular stood out as rather staid, but there were people all over them because once you put the price, performance, quality and reliability together, well.... there will always be enough clowns to buy a car on how it looks from the outside.... but there are enough people in this world that have money AND brains and HMC could easily double or triple its worlwide run rate in ten years.

Which leads me to believe that ten years hence the big European brands are really gonna be hurt by the Japanese.

In the last ten years, Honda and Toyota have moved solidly into the 20K and the 30K fields. The Lexus brand has really beat Benz and Bimmer all over, and it's only a matter of time before AHM markets Acura into the 50K and 60K price range, even if the beancounters have to browbeat the engineers into producing a RWD V8 (with IMA I'd bet). That'd be a change, huh? The beancounters making the engineers spend money!.

Anyhow, I'll post a more complete report about the LA Auto show.

And, the only German car that will survive?.... The Maybach... I want mine in the LWB form....

btw, the weather in LA was in the 50s....brrr...we had to wear jackets, long pants and sun glasses

Profile for ChthonicPowers
Re: Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2004 15:51
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With all due respect TonyE, I believe Honda produced very good quality cars earlier on (late 80's-early 90's) but now I see more and more people complaining about Honda's quality.

I own a third generation Accord, and have no problems with paint chips at all but I hear new cars having severe paint problems. And this problem is not model specific rather across the board. I have a few rattles in the sunroof but even those are confined to cold morning starts when the engine revs fall below 1K mark. And you'd expect that from such an old car, anyway. Other than that, no problem at all.

Now, I was reading a thread on one of the message forums for TL, and from the response of the owners of TL and ES, it was quite obvious they feel that TL is still a few notches below the ES in terms of material quality, ride quality and sound deadning. It was really disheartening to see a 2004 Acura falling behind a 2001/02? Lexus in these critical areas. I think there is some definite room for improvement in those areas.

The most encouraging part of it all is that the new Honda CEO has emphasised quality over quantity. Yoshino belived in the opposite and thus the quality suffered. So much so, even TOV criticised him for that! I really hope Honda breaks new grounds in terms of quality under Fukui.
Thats my opinion on the matter.

Profile for shingles
Re: Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2004 17:12
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The one thing you have to keep in mind is that in the 80's and 90's, there were no internet forums for comsumers to post. If you look at strick numbers... Honda is just as reliable as ever, if not more so. Reading forums to gauge quality will ALWAYS be inaccurate. People DO NOT post when there's nothing wrong with their cars! If you sure www.s2ki.com for S2000 problems, you would think that the S2000 is just a poorly engineered car.... but the truth is, I've had zero problems with mine and there are just as many others that do not have issues as well.

Profile for SandroF1
Re: Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2004 20:28
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Keep in mind that Honda is selling more vehicles now than ever, thus there are more people that have something to say about the vehicle then ever.
Profile for retired
Re: Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2004 00:16
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I concur. Making conclusions from a forum about a
manufacturer's level of quality is unscientific and
subjective. I also do not trust the anecdotal,
word-of-mouth types of stories. My family's Hondas
have never had any quality/reliability/durability issues,
but this statement is anecdotal. What do I conclude?

As an aside...
There is no doubt that each's experience is valuable
for that individual and for those he can influence.
I remember reading a book about Honda motors.
Mr. Honda said that a product may have a defect rate
of, say, one in a hundred. However, for the one who
bought that one-in-a-hundred defective product, all
products from that company are defective.

The conclusion is that a smart company will keep working
at it. In the meantime, no other motor company fits
my personal ethos like Honda does.

Have a nice day.

Profile for RoadRunner
Re: Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2004 15:09
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i agree a 100000%
it's not just honda, it's the philosophy itself....
and this is what the germans will never understand...
they are just too selfish and egoistic, and you can see this mentality on their cars... nice from the outside but nothing in the inside.

Profile for AcuraSM
Re: Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2004 18:35
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You may look at the people posting the TL is marketed for the performance luxury crowd, not the old geezer who thinks road feel is a bad thing. As far as interior quality I think those Lexus buyers are just trying to justify there lack of value in their car. I've been in both and the Acura is equal to the Lexus. Don't get me wrong Lexus has had nice interiors for a long time but you paid big bucks for them. What you supposedly lack in ride quality in the Acura is far out weighed by the performance of this PERFORMANCE luxury car.
Profile for OHV
Re: Honda vs. The Rest [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2004 22:01
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i have 3 words for you... buick grand national..... lol jk, but i have to agree, lexei feel like boats (not sure why but they do) acuras have tighter all around suspensions, HOWEVER, most "average" people prefere a soft ride to a more performance oriented one hence people buying souless lexus (even their "sports" models, IS300 and SC430 have quiet exhaust tones and a severely lacking sports feel)

now then i personally prefere sporty, but i prefere my cars a bit rough in the engine room (you know for a "funner" ride :-)) which acura just doesnt deliever (which isnt a bad thing for most people) heh

anyways, people pay big bucks for lexus because they think its the best out there, but hello stupid "sheepies", welcome to the 2000s it ISNT.

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