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TOV Forums > RSX > > Re: Hondata

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jes98gsr
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RSXS rev limiter    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2002 01:44
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I heard the RSXS has a "smart" rev limiter so that the engine can only be wound up to ~5krpm w/clutch in, but in gear? I'm not sure if a 5krpm clutch drop is beneficial for a good launch, but it would be neat if the ECU were that smart. Or maybe it's intrusive. Can't decide.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
yes, it does have one    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2002 09:15
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I'm not sure if it's strictly related to the state of the clutch, because the limiter will also engage if you're stopped, with the car out of gear. Our tl-s does the same thing. the cl-s 6-speed did not do this, however.

As for the benefits of a 5k rpm launch, at the strip it was no problem overwhelming the front tires with only a few thousand rpms on the tach. The motor mounts were also easily overwhelmed, as there was a lot of ugly axle hop and motor slap on hard launches. I blame this for the mediocre 15.3 sec 1/4 mile times we worked to achieve. The CL-S 6-speed crushed it time after time on the strip. In normal street conditions these two cars were virtually side by side, with the CL-S just slightly edging it. It's amazing how much difference a good launch can make.

jes98gsr wrote:
I heard the RSXS has a "smart" rev limiter so that the engine can only be wound up to ~5krpm w/clutch in, but in gear? I'm not sure if a 5krpm clutch drop is beneficial for a good launch, but it would be neat if the ECU were that smart. Or maybe it's intrusive. Can't decide.


RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: yes, it does have one    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2002 12:38
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I believe it's related to the state of the transmission. If the car is in neutral, the limiter is 5500 RPM. I think you can exceed this if it's in any gear. If I remember in a few minutes during lunch I'll try it out. The tires could use a good scrub. ;-)

Yes, launching at 5500 RPM would result in a nice display of smoke. Although I haven't brought it to the strip (or even drag raced it much, for that matter), a grippy concrete surface launch is nice at ~4000 RPM with a slip. This engine has considerably more torque than the Integra.

Ryan

RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: yes, it does have one    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2002 14:20
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Well, I guess it is dependent on the clutch position (or maybe vehicle speed?). In either neutral or 1st gear at a dead stop, a "soft" limiter at 5500 RPM is initiated. I don't know about moving, or trying to launch with it -- I somehow managed to evade a cop clocking me at 80+ in a 60 minutes before trying this and didn't want to press my luck. (I wasn't even trying to outrun him! It honestly looked like he just gave up. That's good, since my previous ticket is still floating around in the system.)

Ryan

floundericiousMI
Profile for floundericiousMI
Re: yes, it does have one    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2002 17:01
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I'd think it would light up pretty quick! My prelude was able to light up and spin if you dumped at 3000! :) :) :) Not that I ever DID, of course! ;)
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: we were trying to get more controllable wheelspin    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2002 17:32
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Launching at lower rpms it would just grip and slip alternately causing a huge amount of axle hop. It was nasty. With a higher rpm launch I was trying to get a little clutch slip and more controllable spin (spin is o.k., its when the tires grip for a moment that axle hop shows up). That's when I found the 5500 rpm soft limiter at the line.

If we had been able to slip in from a decent rpm without wheelhop, we would have knocked 3-5 tenths off of our ET.

SC

floundericiousMI wrote:
I'd think it would light up pretty quick! My prelude was able to light up and spin if you dumped at 3000! :) :) :) Not that I ever DID, of course! ;)


flash27
Profile for flash27
Re: How will the limiter/launches be affected by upgrades?    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2002 19:56
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5500RPM is a high number, but add Z rated tires with 17" rims. Upgrade the suspension, motor mounts, etc. and will the limiter become intrusive to performance? What's the purpose of having that type of limiter on there, anyway? I mean, step on the gas in neutral and rev it to the 8000RPM limiter: What's the difference between that and bringing it 8 grand in first while moving? A good device would be one that automatically kicks in the clutch in the event of an accidental mis-shift from, let's say, 3rd at redline to 2nd.
jes98gsr
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Um, thanks for testing so thoroughly...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2002 01:12
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Inquisitive minds are benefitting from you letting your license flap in the wind. :-)

So, um, say, have you ever tried a front-first fwd spin like the one in the Altima ad? I think it's digital hooey personally, but maybe one of us (you) should give it a shot. ;-)

RyanDL wrote:
Well, I guess it is dependent on the clutch position (or maybe vehicle speed?). In either neutral or 1st gear at a dead stop, a "soft" limiter at 5500 RPM is initiated. I don't know about moving, or trying to launch with it -- I somehow managed to evade a cop clocking me at 80+ in a 60 minutes before trying this and didn't want to press my luck. (I wasn't even trying to outrun him! It honestly looked like he just gave up. That's good, since my previous ticket is still floating around in the system.)

Ryan



RyanDL
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Re: Um, thanks for testing so thoroughly...    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2002 10:31
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Anything I can do to help you out! =-)

That Altima add is nuts. I really have no idea how they did it. I can't imagine that if they did manage to get the car into such a spin that they did it on such a narrow road -- that has to be digital. But there is tire smoke, and if memory serves, I think the rear tire even "chatters" a bit, making me think it actually did spin. Very cool!

By the way, the "soft" limiter must rely on the VSS (vehicle speed sensor). As long as the car is moving, you can rev the engine as high as you'd like.

Ryan

RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: How will the limiter/launches be affected by upgrades?    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2002 10:33
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I don't think the limiter will ever affect a launch -- that would be a very high RPM to launch this car from, IMO.

The limiter is there to prevent the engine from engaging VTEC when it's not needed (i.e. - some kid revving his engine up and down for 5 minutes at a traffic light). Don't know if that's bad or not.

Ryan

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: How will the limiter/launches be affected by upgrades?    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2002 10:43
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Not on slicks, or even drag radials. And a proper FWD launch sometimes requires slipping from an rpm point right around where teh limiter is.

On my old GS-R I'd drop the clutch at 8000 rpm on slicks. On my CRX, I drop between 4500-5500. Drag radials can't take quite so much shock, but they still require high rpms.

I'm sure Hondata will take care of this though :-)

SC

RyanDL wrote:
I don't think the limiter will ever affect a launch -- that would be a very high RPM to launch this car from, IMO.

Ryan



flash27
Profile for flash27
Re: Hondata    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2002 00:25
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Would you consider Hondata a valuable investment as an only modification? Or being one of the only modifications (maybe just an I/H/E)? Providing it was dyno tuned, of course. I know it's still tough to tell with the new K20, but everyones been saying it's sooo held back, in part possibly, by it's fuel mapping/ECU programming. They're are other advantages of the Hondata like the elimination of the speed limiter (well, maybe an advantage).
notyper
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Re: Hondata    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2002 23:07
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Well, it isn't done yet, but I think it will be very worthwhile. I was over at Hondata's offices yesterday and Doug showed me the cam timing tables for the i-VTEC. It would appear that Honda is really messing with the cam timing on the top end and holding back power. There are also some weird things going on elsewhere. I think that with an ECU on this car, you'll probably see 10 hp at least. There's no reason why a tuned and bolt-ons RSX-S on stock internals shouldn't be able to do 195-200 whp.

SC

flash27 wrote:
Would you consider Hondata a valuable investment as an only modification? Or being one of the only modifications (maybe just an I/H/E)? Providing it was dyno tuned, of course. I know it's still tough to tell with the new K20, but everyones been saying it's sooo held back, in part possibly, by it's fuel mapping/ECU programming. They're are other advantages of the Hondata like the elimination of the speed limiter (well, maybe an advantage).


Leo95se
Profile for Leo95se
Re: Hondata    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-28-2002 10:23
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I'm curious to know more about the ecu.. it seems that timing is retarded across the rpm band, esp between 5-6k, and the upper revs..
can you share anything else with us about the ecu?
how about fuel mappings, etc? does it run as rich as it seems, with all these ppl complaining about blackened exhaust tips?
thx

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Hondata    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-28-2002 10:31
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The guys at Hondata haven't finished deconstructing all the code yet so all the details aren't known. But its clear that there is more performance in the ECU. Honda appears to be building their current crop of engines with lots of headroom left in them for future upgrades. That makes it easier for them to get more power in new model releases, and its great for the aftermarket. See, Honda does look our for us :-)

As soon as I get an RSX on my dyno, I'll let you all know what the A/F readings look like.

SC

Leo95se wrote:
I'm curious to know more about the ecu.. it seems that timing is retarded across the rpm band, esp between 5-6k, and the upper revs..
can you share anything else with us about the ecu?
how about fuel mappings, etc? does it run as rich as it seems, with all these ppl complaining about blackened exhaust tips?
thx




 
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