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TOV Forums > Today's Reading Links > > Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended

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DCR
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Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2019 13:22
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Chickens coming home to roost and all that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/tesla-tanks-subaru-soars-in-consumer-reports-new-reliability-survey.html

Tesla shares fall after Consumer Reports says it will no longer recommend Model 3


Some experiences:

https://model3ownersclub.com/forums/mechanical-hardware-issues.96/

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2019 13:47
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Model 3 has been plagued with issues ever since it debuted.
MASTERNC
Profile for MASTERNC
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2019 15:41
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Nor is the RDX recommended anymore, if you read the full CR article. In fact, no Acura models are recommended.
Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2019 17:42
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More details on Consumer Reports' site:

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars-driving/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles/

The RDX is indeed out. No Acuras are recommended.

And you can always count on Fiat to be last.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2019 17:49
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Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2019 18:57
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notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.



HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2019 19:31
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I find it interesting that some people think if the problem is only the "infotainment" system, then people should quit complaining. I find this logic hard to fathom. When I pay for something, I expect it to work, or I'll be pissed.

If your house's infotainment system was a standalone TV which you purchased for $1000 and you take it home and the sound is always cutting out, would you simply live with it because, well, the picture is nice and clear, the plastic surround has a nice sheen to it and anyway it's an attractive part of your living room furniture?

Indeed, most people's direct interaction with a car IS the infotainment system. Most cars these days rarely require you to do much other than turn on the ignition and put the transmission in "drive" and go. Most likely, if you interact with anything in the car, it's the navigation system or the radio etc.

If a manufacturer is incapable of building well-functioning versions of these, then either don't put them in the damn car, or charge zero (0) dollars for them and tell the consumer if it doesn't work, it's a freebie anyway and they have nothing to complain about. Until that happens, I think CR and JDP have every right to penalize the cars that have these problems. Reliability is in the eye of the beholder.

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 00:24
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HondaForever wrote:
I find it interesting that some people think if the problem is only the "infotainment" system, then people should quit complaining. I find this logic hard to fathom. When I pay for something, I expect it to work, or I'll be pissed.


I'm with you on this one. System quirks like this piss me off just as much as mechanical ones. It may not be necessary to operate the vehicle (but in Tesla it is important), but in my previous Accord I would lose audio sometimes and I would have to shut the car off and turn it back on for the sound to come back, sometimes 2-3-4 times. That resulted in a service visit and it was never fixed. I would also get a super loud death screech from the bluetooth sometimes that would scare the shit out of me.

Like it or not, "infotainment" is now a category in your car just like anything else, and if it sucks, people absolutely have a right to complain.


Mechanic
Profile for Mechanic
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 05:01
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Go back now and re-read what notyper wrote ^. It's spot on.

And as long as we are talking about owner surveys, let's take a minute to think about the psychology at play here. For example, IMHO two things explain why Subaru and Porsche are top-ranked. In the case of 'Roo, CR loves the damn things. The initial owner surveys are simply mirroring what they've been told.

But I don't doubt that Subarus are reliable now -- now that they are no longer devouring oil. The problem with Subarus now is they are gutless. If you want to crawl around in snow, they are great. But you're gonna take your life in you hands trying to merge into traffic. (Who the hell still builds a car that can't get to 60 mph in under 10 seconds?)

And Porsche? You think the guy who just paid $130k for a new Porsche is going to tell CR (or CR's audience) that he f$%ked up? That's not gonna happen. If you want to know what new Porsche owners really think about their cars, spend a few minutes on rennlist.com.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 09:47
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TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.





These features are available in Carplay and Android Auto for a couple of years now.

There's nothing here involving "pampering", if people pay for a feature, it should just work, period. I agree with what notyper said about CR's data.

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 10:15
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Mechanic wrote:

But I don't doubt that Subarus are reliable now -- now that they are no longer devouring oil. The problem with Subarus now is they are gutless.



WRX/STi already takes care of that argument without even looking at any other model.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 12:15
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Mechanic wrote:

And Porsche? You think the guy who just paid $130k for a new Porsche is going to tell CR (or CR's audience) that he f$%ked up? That's not gonna happen. If you want to know what new Porsche owners really think about their cars, spend a few minutes on rennlist.com.


I was reading an interview with BMW's CEO some years ago. It was in a German magazine, either Stern or Spiegel. When asked about their low reliability scores at the time, his response was that BMW customers are very demanding and report every small problem, skewing the results.

Porsche drivers are usually very strict about their cars being in top shape, so it may be the other way around. A Honda or Mazda customer may not bother to report rattles or intermittent problems because they think they get what they pay for.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 17:00
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HondaForever wrote:
I find it interesting that some people think if the problem is only the "infotainment" system, then people should quit complaining. I find this logic hard to fathom. When I pay for something, I expect it to work, or I'll be pissed.

If your house's infotainment system was a standalone TV which you purchased for $1000 and you take it home and the sound is always cutting out, would you simply live with it because, well, the picture is nice and clear, the plastic surround has a nice sheen to it and anyway it's an attractive part of your living room furniture?

Indeed, most people's direct interaction with a car IS the infotainment system. Most cars these days rarely require you to do much other than turn on the ignition and put the transmission in "drive" and go. Most likely, if you interact with anything in the car, it's the navigation system or the radio etc.

If a manufacturer is incapable of building well-functioning versions of these, then either don't put them in the damn car, or charge zero (0) dollars for them and tell the consumer if it doesn't work, it's a freebie anyway and they have nothing to complain about. Until that happens, I think CR and JDP have every right to penalize the cars that have these problems. Reliability is in the eye of the beholder.



That is NOT what we are writing.

We are writing that "consumer complaints" need to be weighted in order of value.

Treating your valves with a walnut shell wash every 30K miles should be a bigger issue than not liking how your iPhone connects to your car.

One is a failure, the other one is a design.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 17:08
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CarPhreakD wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.





These features are available in Carplay and Android Auto for a couple of years now.

There's nothing here involving "pampering", if people pay for a feature, it should just work, period. I agree with what notyper said about CR's data.



People bitch and moan and then useful things are dropped.

Like the dual screen display. I loved it. I was able to display the NAVI screen on top while my wife played with the rest of the stuff. And if someone called my wife, the warning came up on the touchscreen, NOT the NAVI screen.

You have no idea how many times we have been driving up a mountain pass in the winter when I was interested on the NAVI when my wife would receive a rapid fire set of text messages and I suddenly lose the NAVI because it gets overwritten by the texts.

Really?

No, bad user interface design is often an inconvenient annoyance but not a fatal fault. You want to throw the crap out the window, but the car runs fine, HVAC works, brakes work, etc...

BTW, most of the interface with the moving/HVAC parts of the car are NOT within the NAVI itself. Nor with its myriad of stupid menus.... If you want to make that claim, then look at a Tesla, not a Honda.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 17:12
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HondaForever wrote:
I find it interesting that some people think if the problem is only the "infotainment" system, then people should quit complaining. I find this logic hard to fathom. When I pay for something, I expect it to work, or I'll be pissed.

If your house's infotainment system was a standalone TV which you purchased for $1000 and you take it home and the sound is always cutting out, would you simply live with it because, well, the picture is nice and clear, the plastic surround has a nice sheen to it and anyway it's an attractive part of your living room furniture?

Indeed, most people's direct interaction with a car IS the infotainment system. Most cars these days rarely require you to do much other than turn on the ignition and put the transmission in "drive" and go. Most likely, if you interact with anything in the car, it's the navigation system or the radio etc.

If a manufacturer is incapable of building well-functioning versions of these, then either don't put them in the damn car, or charge zero (0) dollars for them and tell the consumer if it doesn't work, it's a freebie anyway and they have nothing to complain about. Until that happens, I think CR and JDP have every right to penalize the cars that have these problems. Reliability is in the eye of the beholder.



The problem with the infotainment is that its dependent on Apple, Android, Microsoft and Google to work in most cases.

How often do you have to do a hard reset on your phone? How often do you reboot your windows PC because its running slow? How often does a firmware update screw up one of your apps? I use an iPhone, my SO a Samsung, I have multiple windows platforms for work and home. And none of them have the robustness of a Linux platform let alone a fault tolerant system like some of the stuff I worked with dealing with military and aerospace clients years ago. Hell, even bluetooth that I use for my credit card reader, my keyboard/mouse and some other applications isn't particulary robust and fails all the time.

So not only is infotainment secondary to the primary purpose of the car (to get you from place to place quicker than you can walk), but its saddled by a bunch of constantly updating consumer electronics bullshit that is designed for rapid obsolescence and designed and built with the "we'll fix it with an update" attitude. You'll never have consistent, solid performance in this area as long as it works this way.

SC

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 17:33
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TonyEX wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.





These features are available in Carplay and Android Auto for a couple of years now.

There's nothing here involving "pampering", if people pay for a feature, it should just work, period. I agree with what notyper said about CR's data.



People bitch and moan and then useful things are dropped.

Like the dual screen display. I loved it. I was able to display the NAVI screen on top while my wife played with the rest of the stuff. And if someone called my wife, the warning came up on the touchscreen, NOT the NAVI screen.

You have no idea how many times we have been driving up a mountain pass in the winter when I was interested on the NAVI when my wife would receive a rapid fire set of text messages and I suddenly lose the NAVI because it gets overwritten by the texts.

Really?

No, bad user interface design is often an inconvenient annoyance but not a fatal fault. You want to throw the crap out the window, but the car runs fine, HVAC works, brakes work, etc...

BTW, most of the interface with the moving/HVAC parts of the car are NOT within the NAVI itself. Nor with its myriad of stupid menus.... If you want to make that claim, then look at a Tesla, not a Honda.


Car reviewers bitched and moaned or made jokes at all the physical buttons in Acura vehicles so Honda/Acura stupidly over reacted and got rid of most physical buttons for that awful two screen touchscreen deal which also made the interiors look extremely cheap with the outdated graphics, made everything much worse. It made using functions needlessly difficult and irritating. It had hardly any fans and is one of the main reasons Acura vehicles have taken such a big tumble in CR ratings and are even not recommended.

They can use a smaller second screen for readouts/information on temp, media, texts, etc that is not a touchscreen and have physical buttons and switches for all functions that are commonly used. No need to have to use a touchscreen/menu for seat heaters, changing radio stations, pre sets, climate adjustments, other adjustments, etc.

Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 17:56
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lexusgs wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.





These features are available in Carplay and Android Auto for a couple of years now.

There's nothing here involving "pampering", if people pay for a feature, it should just work, period. I agree with what notyper said about CR's data.



People bitch and moan and then useful things are dropped.

Like the dual screen display. I loved it. I was able to display the NAVI screen on top while my wife played with the rest of the stuff. And if someone called my wife, the warning came up on the touchscreen, NOT the NAVI screen.

You have no idea how many times we have been driving up a mountain pass in the winter when I was interested on the NAVI when my wife would receive a rapid fire set of text messages and I suddenly lose the NAVI because it gets overwritten by the texts.

Really?

No, bad user interface design is often an inconvenient annoyance but not a fatal fault. You want to throw the crap out the window, but the car runs fine, HVAC works, brakes work, etc...

BTW, most of the interface with the moving/HVAC parts of the car are NOT within the NAVI itself. Nor with its myriad of stupid menus.... If you want to make that claim, then look at a Tesla, not a Honda.


Car reviewers bitched and moaned or made jokes at all the physical buttons in Acura vehicles so Honda/Acura stupidly over reacted and got rid of most physical buttons for that awful two screen touchscreen deal which also made the interiors look extremely cheap with the outdated graphics, made everything much worse. It made using functions needlessly difficult and irritating. It had hardly any fans and is one of the main reasons Acura vehicles have taken such a big tumble in CR ratings and are even not recommended.

They can use a smaller second screen for readouts/information on temp, media, texts, etc that is not a touchscreen and have physical buttons and switches for all functions that are commonly used. No need to have to use a touchscreen/menu for seat heaters, changing radio stations, pre sets, climate adjustments, other adjustments, etc.



Honda owns 4.5% of Pioneer Corporation (which is why I have Pioneer in my Accord). Perhaps they should take the plunge and just buy them outright or a controlling stake to handle ICE and interfaces for Honda products and make them like Keihin, a Honda company that still supplies other manufacturers.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 18:19
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The two screen solution by itself wasn't bad, for the reasons covered by TonyE. That being said, Honda did go too far in removing physical buttons. I wish they had followed a nice, balanced approach.

BTW Consumer Reports used to recommend the gen 2 RDX, in spite of its design issues. It is the new, single-screen 2019 RDX that is the target of their wrath.

HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 18:19
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notyper wrote:
HondaForever wrote:
I find it interesting that some people think if the problem is only the "infotainment" system, then people should quit complaining. I find this logic hard to fathom. When I pay for something, I expect it to work, or I'll be pissed.

If your house's infotainment system was a standalone TV which you purchased for $1000 and you take it home and the sound is always cutting out, would you simply live with it because, well, the picture is nice and clear, the plastic surround has a nice sheen to it and anyway it's an attractive part of your living room furniture?

Indeed, most people's direct interaction with a car IS the infotainment system. Most cars these days rarely require you to do much other than turn on the ignition and put the transmission in "drive" and go. Most likely, if you interact with anything in the car, it's the navigation system or the radio etc.

If a manufacturer is incapable of building well-functioning versions of these, then either don't put them in the damn car, or charge zero (0) dollars for them and tell the consumer if it doesn't work, it's a freebie anyway and they have nothing to complain about. Until that happens, I think CR and JDP have every right to penalize the cars that have these problems. Reliability is in the eye of the beholder.



The problem with the infotainment is that its dependent on Apple, Android, Microsoft and Google to work in most cases.

How often do you have to do a hard reset on your phone? How often do you reboot your windows PC because its running slow? How often does a firmware update screw up one of your apps? I use an iPhone, my SO a Samsung, I have multiple windows platforms for work and home. And none of them have the robustness of a Linux platform let alone a fault tolerant system like some of the stuff I worked with dealing with military and aerospace clients years ago. Hell, even bluetooth that I use for my credit card reader, my keyboard/mouse and some other applications isn't particulary robust and fails all the time.

So not only is infotainment secondary to the primary purpose of the car (to get you from place to place quicker than you can walk), but its saddled by a bunch of constantly updating consumer electronics bullshit that is designed for rapid obsolescence and designed and built with the "we'll fix it with an update" attitude. You'll never have consistent, solid performance in this area as long as it works this way.

SC


Your point about the outside supplier problems is well taken. I had in mind the systems that Honda for example sourced itself. On my 16 Pilot, there were numerous problems with the infotainment system that were not related to Microsoft, Apple etc.

It started out with the music on the USB always playing from the first song no matter what song you were playing when you stopped the vehicle. After about 9 months, they finally issued a software update for it. During that period, my wife let me know how upset she was every time the first song got replayed. Another glitch, which has still not been fixed is that the Blue Ray player also doesn't know to stop the video at the point where the car stopped. When you start the car it always starts at the beginning and you have to wind it back to where it had stopped every time you stop and start the car.

Are these the same as being stranded on the side of the road with a leaking radiator, no. But on the other hand, at least the leaky radiator will get fixed once and for all. Having your wife or 2 year old yelling in your ears for 9 months because of a software glitch does not a happy driver make. The joys of owning you $50,000 ride can dissipate in a hurry.



wooderson79
Profile for wooderson79
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2019 18:28
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lexusgs wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.





These features are available in Carplay and Android Auto for a couple of years now.

There's nothing here involving "pampering", if people pay for a feature, it should just work, period. I agree with what notyper said about CR's data.



People bitch and moan and then useful things are dropped.

Like the dual screen display. I loved it. I was able to display the NAVI screen on top while my wife played with the rest of the stuff. And if someone called my wife, the warning came up on the touchscreen, NOT the NAVI screen.

You have no idea how many times we have been driving up a mountain pass in the winter when I was interested on the NAVI when my wife would receive a rapid fire set of text messages and I suddenly lose the NAVI because it gets overwritten by the texts.

Really?

No, bad user interface design is often an inconvenient annoyance but not a fatal fault. You want to throw the crap out the window, but the car runs fine, HVAC works, brakes work, etc...

BTW, most of the interface with the moving/HVAC parts of the car are NOT within the NAVI itself. Nor with its myriad of stupid menus.... If you want to make that claim, then look at a Tesla, not a Honda.


Car reviewers bitched and moaned or made jokes at all the physical buttons in Acura vehicles so Honda/Acura stupidly over reacted and got rid of most physical buttons for that awful two screen touchscreen deal which also made the interiors look extremely cheap with the outdated graphics, made everything much worse. It made using functions needlessly difficult and irritating. It had hardly any fans and is one of the main reasons Acura vehicles have taken such a big tumble in CR ratings and are even not recommended.

They can use a smaller second screen for readouts/information on temp, media, texts, etc that is not a touchscreen and have physical buttons and switches for all functions that are commonly used. No need to have to use a touchscreen/menu for seat heaters, changing radio stations, pre sets, climate adjustments, other adjustments, etc.


LexusGS - sometimes you're still living five years in the past. I have a 2018 TLX ASpec and the two screen system is fantastic. Believe it or not, they do update things. The buttons on the lower screen function the same as a physical button. When you push the 'button' on the screen it performs the function. You don't have to go to multiple screens anymore, unless you want to. The top screen is set back in the dash, large and clearly visible in any lighting conditions. It does exactly what it's supposed to - provides a great navigation function. The system has been flawless to date.
The single screen setup in our 2018 Odyssey Touring is horrendous. Its sticks out from the dash like it was installed by a rookie car audio dude. The functionality is bad. By the time they try to cram all the other crap on the screen, the navigation portion is about the size of a cell phone screen. The whole system is very glitchy. Often times it says the radio is not available. I have to scroll through audio setting to get it to work. This happens daily. It also locks out on 'security' constantly. Various other glitches as well.
The two screen setup in the TLX is far superior in my opinion. You mention how the reviewers dissed all the physical buttons and Acura made some bad decisions. The same scenario is happening with the two screen setup.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2019 14:30
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
wooderson79 wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.





These features are available in Carplay and Android Auto for a couple of years now.

There's nothing here involving "pampering", if people pay for a feature, it should just work, period. I agree with what notyper said about CR's data.



People bitch and moan and then useful things are dropped.

Like the dual screen display. I loved it. I was able to display the NAVI screen on top while my wife played with the rest of the stuff. And if someone called my wife, the warning came up on the touchscreen, NOT the NAVI screen.

You have no idea how many times we have been driving up a mountain pass in the winter when I was interested on the NAVI when my wife would receive a rapid fire set of text messages and I suddenly lose the NAVI because it gets overwritten by the texts.

Really?

No, bad user interface design is often an inconvenient annoyance but not a fatal fault. You want to throw the crap out the window, but the car runs fine, HVAC works, brakes work, etc...

BTW, most of the interface with the moving/HVAC parts of the car are NOT within the NAVI itself. Nor with its myriad of stupid menus.... If you want to make that claim, then look at a Tesla, not a Honda.


Car reviewers bitched and moaned or made jokes at all the physical buttons in Acura vehicles so Honda/Acura stupidly over reacted and got rid of most physical buttons for that awful two screen touchscreen deal which also made the interiors look extremely cheap with the outdated graphics, made everything much worse. It made using functions needlessly difficult and irritating. It had hardly any fans and is one of the main reasons Acura vehicles have taken such a big tumble in CR ratings and are even not recommended.

They can use a smaller second screen for readouts/information on temp, media, texts, etc that is not a touchscreen and have physical buttons and switches for all functions that are commonly used. No need to have to use a touchscreen/menu for seat heaters, changing radio stations, pre sets, climate adjustments, other adjustments, etc.


LexusGS - sometimes you're still living five years in the past. I have a 2018 TLX ASpec and the two screen system is fantastic. Believe it or not, they do update things. The buttons on the lower screen function the same as a physical button. When you push the 'button' on the screen it performs the function. You don't have to go to multiple screens anymore, unless you want to. The top screen is set back in the dash, large and clearly visible in any lighting conditions. It does exactly what it's supposed to - provides a great navigation function. The system has been flawless to date.
The single screen setup in our 2018 Odyssey Touring is horrendous. Its sticks out from the dash like it was installed by a rookie car audio dude. The functionality is bad. By the time they try to cram all the other crap on the screen, the navigation portion is about the size of a cell phone screen. The whole system is very glitchy. Often times it says the radio is not available. I have to scroll through audio setting to get it to work. This happens daily. It also locks out on 'security' constantly. Various other glitches as well.
The two screen setup in the TLX is far superior in my opinion. You mention how the reviewers dissed all the physical buttons and Acura made some bad decisions. The same scenario is happening with the two screen setup.


No, I am living in what works and know what is needless changing just to be new/different that does not work, makes things more difficult.

My family has/had TLX's for a couple years and the touchscreen is the one thing we hate and wish were different, wish it had physical buttons like in the TL. You can't operate those touchscreen functions with gloves on for one thing, so in order to change a station/function or even turn on the heated seats we have to take attention off the road and hands off the wheel to remove gloves, then have to take attention off the road to hit the touchscreen seat heater button and also look at the screen to hit what level we want it on, then have to take focus off the road again and hands off the wheel to put the glove back on. Then there are the ugly fingerprints all over the stupid screen that look terrible. The screen is laggy too, not immediate like physical buttons and the displays look cheap and low rent.

Just because the system in the Odyssey is bad, it does not make the system in the TLX any better. Replacing physical buttons and switches with touchscreen or mouse controls has only made simple intuitive tasks more difficult, buggy, and annoying. Nothing has been gained unless you are a really weird OCD person who hates the site of physical buttons. Interiors look more boring and dull now that most buttons and switches have been take away, they look less luxurious and more like the very basic econo car interiors of the 70's and 80's that had very few buttons because they had so little features.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2019 14:15
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Sasker wrote:
The two screen solution by itself wasn't bad, for the reasons covered by TonyE. That being said, Honda did go too far in removing physical buttons. I wish they had followed a nice, balanced approach.

BTW Consumer Reports used to recommend the gen 2 RDX, in spite of its design issues. It is the new, single-screen 2019 RDX that is the target of their wrath.



The User Interface was confusing (still is).

In the Dual Screen system, there were input selections that could be made directly from the keyboard on the touchscreen OR by the "mouse" and the options on the upper screen.

That was confusing. There was no real reason for having two ways to input data. Three if you counted the stupid voice. (*)

Another problem was, still is, that Honda can not seem to settle on a STANDARD menu design across their car line. If you are in a one car all the time, this doesn't bother you, but if you swap cars often enough it drives you nuts.

The AutoPorn writers are fools. Honda should have ignored them and simply upgraded and standarized their User Interface.

(*) This is what I think is the most dangerous part. The LAWYERS affecting the usefulness of the embedded NAVI system. Voice commands are much more attention intensive than just pressing a few buttons in a touchscreen.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2019 14:32
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(1) The heater seating buttons in our '16 TLX had FIVE settings... and they could be accessed immediately and quickly.

(2) Take off your mittens before you use a touchscreen.

(3) The Two Screen design is superior. To top it off, the TLX has a 3rd display on the dash which is awesome. I used to use the mileage and SH-AWD displays on the dash (alternating), the NAVI up on top and whatever my wife wanted on the touchscreen.

BTW, has anyone tried to use the current NAVI to find something? It wants to go to the Internet and then it tells me it can't. It's really a PITA. So we get the address from our Smart Phones and then enter that into the NAVI as destination. I mean, it used to have a built in database, but that went away.

Fools.

You know, with a 10 inch tablet, a 2A USB connection and a smart phone providing a connection to the Internet, you would have a very good NAVI. Plus stereo source.... Sure, it would be clunky, but it would work much better and it would not be hampered by the Lawyers.

Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2019 17:33
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I am able to use the touchscreen in my tlx with gloves on. Mind you I am not wearing gigantic ski gloves just normal winter gloves.

My biggest issue with the touchscreen is not the screen itself it is the backend slowness. If I get in car turn it on, then hit the mind you hard button for getting to the nav screen it seemingly takes forever to make a change, to the point I press it multiple times. The entire system needs a much faster processor and the code needs to be written to go faster. Too damn slow.

This is what kills it. I think if the screen behaves at the speed of say an iPad no one would complain, but instead it feels like you are sending a miniature runner who climbs a ladder to the above screen and starts changing the channel.

B.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Consumer Reports Strikes Again - Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-27-2019 00:30
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TonyEX wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
Did you notice why the Odyssey isn't recommended anymore? Infotainment screen lockup. Yeah, makes the car very unreliable (and they do make comments that the fastest growing area of complaints is infotainment and electronics.

Also, if you read through all the cars that dropped off the recommended list, notice how many makers state "we haven't received any feedback on this issue from our customers". Maybe they're all lying, or is what CR hearing different than what the customers are telling the OEMs?

And BTW, how does CR know what cars a member owns? Is it self reported? Do they check vins?

Ahh, I'm just beating a dead horse. None of these companies is providing accurate data right now. Good or bad (notice how much worse Toyota is in this than in the JDP stuff).

SC



People are pampered nowadays.

They complain about their cars like they complain about their smart phones.

IMHO, car companies should STOP offering build it entertainment/navi firmware. Instead, offer a USB-C connection that exports the display as a remote keyboard/display for a cell phone, tablet etc.

Maybe offer a simple built in audio mode, and of course access to some of the car's built in controls, but NO ENTERTAINMENT other than an AM/FM/XM radio. No built in Navi.

Just plug in your phone/tablet, hit that big button to the right, go into split screen mode and there you go. Now your phone/tablet is has a bigger screen.





These features are available in Carplay and Android Auto for a couple of years now.

There's nothing here involving "pampering", if people pay for a feature, it should just work, period. I agree with what notyper said about CR's data.



People bitch and moan and then useful things are dropped.

Like the dual screen display. I loved it. I was able to display the NAVI screen on top while my wife played with the rest of the stuff. And if someone called my wife, the warning came up on the touchscreen, NOT the NAVI screen.

You have no idea how many times we have been driving up a mountain pass in the winter when I was interested on the NAVI when my wife would receive a rapid fire set of text messages and I suddenly lose the NAVI because it gets overwritten by the texts.

Really?

No, bad user interface design is often an inconvenient annoyance but not a fatal fault. You want to throw the crap out the window, but the car runs fine, HVAC works, brakes work, etc...

BTW, most of the interface with the moving/HVAC parts of the car are NOT within the NAVI itself. Nor with its myriad of stupid menus.... If you want to make that claim, then look at a Tesla, not a Honda.



I don't seem to recall you running around the board dismissing BMW's iDrive based complaints in the mid 2000's, but here you are... So very odd... In fact, as I recall, back then it was "proof" of what piles of shit they were compared to the almighty and infallible Acura, even though it was also then stated that much of the complaints sourced from infotainment issues. Nevermind Honda's own menagerie of transmission grenades in that era, which apparently didn't exist because you never experienced them (but hey, pay no attention to the multiple class action lawsuits and recalls).

P.S. I only partly agree with you and Shawn about the ICE integration. Does it ruin the car or do I magically get stranded every 10 seconds on the highway? No. Does it affect my user experience in a negative way and make my operation of the car more difficult? Yes. As we get more and more shit going through those systems, the integration gets more important. Does it leave me stranded while I wait for 30 seconds EVERY_SINGLE_TIME I start my car to wait for the system to boot up? No. Does it strand me on the not very rare occasion that it just randomly doesn't pair to my phone or pairs to someone else's forcing me to go through a bunch of menus to get it back to where I want it? Not to mention the times when it just won't pair at all and I have to variously reboot the ICE system, the phone, or both and have even occasionally had to shut the car off and wait 5 minutes to make sure everything cleared so I could restart it and try again? Does sound a lot like gremlins with Alfa that keep from driving it though. And it pisses me off and wastes my time.

Not to mention the unintended consequences of having already distracted drivers trying to do shit on their non-functioning ICE system while being hobbled by lawyer functionality and still trying to take that call... Don't know about you, but it is becoming validly statistically apparent that ANYTHING that aids distracted driving is actually a much BIGGER threat than being stranded on the road. Just saying...

Not to say that I disagree with the JDP or CR observations, just that, as usual, you are the king of double standards. When this crap was dragging BMW, Merc and Audi down, it was proof positive of them being junk. Now? "The data is rigged! RIGGED I tell you!"

The longer term silver lining in all of this though, is that just like DIN etc, the manufacturer's are starting to realize the importance of this stuff and are actually starting to standardize it, which longer term will hopefully (and likely) make it more robust and seamless. I can say for sure that after quite a few years of mega-sucking infotainment, the recent Honda products have gotten a lot better. And we don't have 75 different languages, programs, interfaces, etc running around.



 
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