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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit

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CB77
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Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 12:30
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I feel that this is an unfair judgment against Honda. The seatbelt system in this Odyssey met all Federal Safety Requirements...and is the exact same design as all other vans from other makers. The woman was simply too lazy to put on her shoulder belt...only fastening the lap belt. I hope it will be overturned on appeal.

Here is the article:



The lawsuit was filed by Sarah Milburn, a 27 year-old woman who was paralyzed from the neck down in a car accident on November 15, 2015.

She sat in the third-row middle seat of a 2011 Honda Odyssey on her way home after a night out with friends in Dallas. Her Uber driver, Arian Yusufzai, ran a red light while speeding and was T-boned by a Ford F-150 pickup truck.

The seatbelt was a two-part system that required her to connect a shoulder strap on the ceiling to the seat and then pull the belt across her hips and buckle it.

The seatbelt failed to restrain Milburn in the rollover accident, allowing her head to fly forward into the seat in front of her. She suffered severe injuries to her neck.

Neither Yusufzai nor the pickup truck driver were seriously injured.

The jury awarded $37.6 million in compensation, including nearly $20 million in future medical expenses.

Honda was found 63% responsible for her injuries, Yusufzai was 32% responsible, and Milburn was 5% responsible for not putting on the seatbelt correctly.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 13:28
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CB77 wrote:


I feel that this is an unfair judgment against Honda. The seatbelt system in this Odyssey met all Federal Safety Requirements...and is the exact same design as all other vans from other makers. The woman was simply too lazy to put on her shoulder belt...only fastening the lap belt. I hope it will be overturned on appeal.

Here is the article:



The lawsuit was filed by Sarah Milburn, a 27 year-old woman who was paralyzed from the neck down in a car accident on November 15, 2015.

She sat in the third-row middle seat of a 2011 Honda Odyssey on her way home after a night out with friends in Dallas. Her Uber driver, Arian Yusufzai, ran a red light while speeding and was T-boned by a Ford F-150 pickup truck.

The seatbelt was a two-part system that required her to connect a shoulder strap on the ceiling to the seat and then pull the belt across her hips and buckle it.

The seatbelt failed to restrain Milburn in the rollover accident, allowing her head to fly forward into the seat in front of her. She suffered severe injuries to her neck.

Neither Yusufzai nor the pickup truck driver were seriously injured.

The jury awarded $37.6 million in compensation, including nearly $20 million in future medical expenses.

Honda was found 63% responsible for her injuries, Yusufzai was 32% responsible, and Milburn was 5% responsible for not putting on the seatbelt correctly.




Yep. I figure so.

Just like Grand Juries will indict a ham sandwich, juries will award damages based on emotion.

The fault was not Honda's, if anything it was the driver who ran the red light. It was also Milburn's for not putting on her seatbelt properly.

Or, if the jury felt the seatbelt was inadequate then it should sue the US Government.

Personally, I like the way it works. Otherwise you'd have a mostly unused seatbelt hanging in the way.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

This country is turning into an idiocrazy with too many lawyers.


vh2k
Profile for vh2k
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 13:34
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A better article. If 90% of people donít know how to use something thatís an essential safety device, itís a design flaw.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2019/02/14/jury-awards-376-million-dallas-woman-sued-honda-seat-belt-design-after-crash

vh2k
Profile for vh2k
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 13:35
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An expert showed the jury during a trial that fewer than 10 percent of people who are unfamiliar with the type of seat belt were able to use it properly, Milburn's attorneys said.

"Sarah put the seat belt on the same way 50 out of 53 people in our studies did and wearing it that way was actually more dangerous than having no seat belt at all," attorney Charla Aldous said in a prepared statement.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 13:40
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vh2k wrote:
An expert showed the jury during a trial that fewer than 10 percent of people who are unfamiliar with the type of seat belt were able to use it properly, Milburn's attorneys said.

"Sarah put the seat belt on the same way 50 out of 53 people in our studies did and wearing it that way was actually more dangerous than having no seat belt at all," attorney Charla Aldous said in a prepared statement.



The seatbelt was approved by the US Government...

How about the competition?

CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 13:52
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The apportioning of responsibility for this is, in my opinion, unbelievable...should have been: Her 50%...the Uber driver 50%...Honda 0%. Besides being too lazy to put on the shoulder belt, she quite likely was drunk.

The deep "pocket doctrine" says he who has the money pays the bill. I have seen suits where Honda was only 5% responsible but paid all the bill because the other defendants had no money (insurance).

Yeah...I guess in today's world and in a situation like this, expecting "fairness" is pretty naive on my part. I would have had a very hard time if I had been assigned to Honda's Product Liability Dept. during my days at Honda.


garoto
Profile for garoto
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 14:13
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I disagree. This is a Honda forum, and you know Honda cars. For a lot of people, cars are just like a refrigerator, you use it and thatís it. Given that what, 1% of seatbelts or less are a two part system, there was no reasonable way for the woman to know that it was two part when youíre in the middle. Especially in a car that you donít own, and are just in it for the ride. There should be clear signage for these people stating that the seatbelt on top is required. Or, the mechanism shouldnít latch successfully without the upper part of the seatbelt. Or a light indicator stating that part of it is missing. Why does not putting the seatbelt in the front beep, and not the rear, they are all just as important. The reason is greed, no ODPS or any indicators in rear seats.

Punishment well deserved on automakers.

My CTRs seatbelt proudly wears the fucking Takata brand, I can see it on the label at the bottom. As a matter of principle Honda should have conducted zero further business with those guys, even if seatbelts have no known issues. But greed prevails. Very unfortunate.

CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 14:19
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No...the motivation was not greed. This design was required, to allow that rear seat to fold flat for carrying cargo. And I am quite certain that there was a warning label stating that the shoulder belt must also be fastened. Perhaps something that the Uber driver should have assured happened.


notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 18:52
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garoto wrote:
I disagree. This is a Honda forum, and you know Honda cars. For a lot of people, cars are just like a refrigerator, you use it and thatís it. Given that what, 1% of seatbelts or less are a two part system, there was no reasonable way for the woman to know that it was two part when youíre in the middle. Especially in a car that you donít own, and are just in it for the ride. There should be clear signage for these people stating that the seatbelt on top is required. Or, the mechanism shouldnít latch successfully without the upper part of the seatbelt. Or a light indicator stating that part of it is missing. Why does not putting the seatbelt in the front beep, and not the rear, they are all just as important. The reason is greed, no ODPS or any indicators in rear seats.

Punishment well deserved on automakers.

My CTRs seatbelt proudly wears the fucking Takata brand, I can see it on the label at the bottom. As a matter of principle Honda should have conducted zero further business with those guys, even if seatbelts have no known issues. But greed prevails. Very unfortunate.



Nope, stupid people sometimes end their lives stupidly. I don't care what some ambulance chasing personal injury attorney ginned up to win his case.

Some people drive without seatbelts and then try and sue when their airbag doesn't completely prevent injury to them - which is how we ended up with high powered airbags because they had to be able to stop stupid people from becoming meat frisbees in a collision.

Honda's seatbelt passed all federal standards. It was fully functional according to everything I've seen. It just wasn't used right. And that is solely on the person using the seatbelt. As a functional adult in today's world, if you're too dumb to figure out the seatbelt, you ask the vehicle owner. And if he doesn't know how you change seats or say, "I'm not riding in this vehicle".

The fucking liability circus in our courts is enough to make one start slitting attorney's throats in a cull of biblical proportions.

SC

CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 19:29
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Same thing happened to Honda in the late '80s and early '90s with their ATCs (3 wheeled All Terrain Vehicles). People would ride them 2-up (although the owners manual and numerous warning stickers said not to), drunk, and with no helmet. And then when they crashed, they would sue Honda...and win.


ledebuhr1
Profile for ledebuhr1
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 19:42
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The bigger question should go to the jury. Why would they show Honda liable when they did nothing wrong? Sure it seem like your automatically liable if you have millions in assets. The jury members must be very easily brainwashed by attorneys who are waiting for their 33% of the "hush money".
Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 21:10
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Because 90% of humanity is too stupid to use a seatbelt and someone has to be at fault.


notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2019 22:04
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CB77 wrote:

Same thing happened to Honda in the late '80s and early '90s with their ATCs (3 wheeled All Terrain Vehicles). People would ride them 2-up (although the owners manual and numerous warning stickers said not to), drunk, and with no helmet. And then when they crashed, they would sue Honda...and win.



Which is why we don't have 3-wheelers anymore. Yeah, quad's are cool, but trikes have some advantages as well. Children have no problem riding trikes, but drunk adults with sub 90 IQs, that's a different story.

The legal profession and our court system (whose juries are filled with people who probably hope sometime they'll get a chance to try for their lottery ticket court ruling) are why we just can't have so many nice things these days.

SC

BG
Profile for BG
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 09:19
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The uber drive ran a red light, clearly he's to blame and furthermore for not ensuring his passengers were properly belted in.
ledebuhr1
Profile for ledebuhr1
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 16:01
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But the Uber driver doesn't have a pot to piss in. Honda is only "liable" because they have deep pockets. I hope they appeal.
garoto
Profile for garoto
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 23:51
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notyper wrote:
garoto wrote:
I disagree. This is a Honda forum, and you know Honda cars. For a lot of people, cars are just like a refrigerator, you use it and thatís it. Given that what, 1% of seatbelts or less are a two part system, there was no reasonable way for the woman to know that it was two part when youíre in the middle. Especially in a car that you donít own, and are just in it for the ride. There should be clear signage for these people stating that the seatbelt on top is required. Or, the mechanism shouldnít latch successfully without the upper part of the seatbelt. Or a light indicator stating that part of it is missing. Why does not putting the seatbelt in the front beep, and not the rear, they are all just as important. The reason is greed, no ODPS or any indicators in rear seats.

Punishment well deserved on automakers.

My CTRs seatbelt proudly wears the fucking Takata brand, I can see it on the label at the bottom. As a matter of principle Honda should have conducted zero further business with those guys, even if seatbelts have no known issues. But greed prevails. Very unfortunate.



Nope, stupid people sometimes end their lives stupidly. I don't care what some ambulance chasing personal injury attorney ginned up to win his case.

Some people drive without seatbelts and then try and sue when their airbag doesn't completely prevent injury to them - which is how we ended up with high powered airbags because they had to be able to stop stupid people from becoming meat frisbees in a collision.

Honda's seatbelt passed all federal standards. It was fully functional according to everything I've seen. It just wasn't used right. And that is solely on the person using the seatbelt. As a functional adult in today's world, if you're too dumb to figure out the seatbelt, you ask the vehicle owner. And if he doesn't know how you change seats or say, "I'm not riding in this vehicle".

The fucking liability circus in our courts is enough to make one start slitting attorney's throats in a cull of biblical proportions.

SC



The issue is that these cars are designed for the stupid. Often times, they're priced for the stupid, just ask all the dummies who have paid $10,000 for the "protection package" without having a clue that they did: two alarm systems, paint protection, wheel locks and all season mats.

As cars designed for the stupid, signage is important. I still can't reconcile why a beeping seatbelt sound is present in the front and not the rear seat belts.

wedgecon
Profile for wedgecon
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2019 10:30
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I think there is a good chance Honda gets this reversed on appeal. But if the court does uphold this it will also means that other manufacturers will also be liable.

The reason for the lawsuit is simple, there is no universal healthcare in the United States and this is the only way the victim can ever pay their medical bills.

But I also believe that Honda does a design flaw that will lead to much bigger lawsuits, the new push button design for the automatic transmissions. These are unique to Honda and are sure to cause accidents, especially as they become more common.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2019 13:16
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wedgecon wrote:
I think there is a good chance Honda gets this reversed on appeal. But if the court does uphold this it will also means that other manufacturers will also be liable.

The reason for the lawsuit is simple, there is no universal healthcare in the United States and this is the only way the victim can ever pay their medical bills.

But I also believe that Honda does a design flaw that will lead to much bigger lawsuits, the new push button design for the automatic transmissions. These are unique to Honda and are sure to cause accidents, especially as they become more common.



So liability for stupid people should be spread across all taxpayers? No. Healthcare has nothing to do with this issue, nothing. It's about the lowest common denominator juries perpetuating the idea of lottery payouts if you stub your toe because they hope to be there one day too.

As for push button transmissions, been around since the 50's at least. GM currently has one too. And let's not forget that virtually no automatic transmission today actually has a shifter connected to the trans. Everything is electronic, so whether its a column shifter, BMW's giant thumb shifter stalk, a rotary knob or something else, they're all just sending an electrical signal to the TCU.

All can be bumped or manipulated inappropriately, and its a matter of what sorts of interlocks/lockouts that the manufacturers implement to keep people from putting into reverse at 60 mph. A push button trans will have the same interlocks as a console shifter or anything else.

SC

SC

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2019 14:07
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notyper wrote:
wedgecon wrote:
I think there is a good chance Honda gets this reversed on appeal. But if the court does uphold this it will also means that other manufacturers will also be liable.

The reason for the lawsuit is simple, there is no universal healthcare in the United States and this is the only way the victim can ever pay their medical bills.

But I also believe that Honda does a design flaw that will lead to much bigger lawsuits, the new push button design for the automatic transmissions. These are unique to Honda and are sure to cause accidents, especially as they become more common.



So liability for stupid people should be spread across all taxpayers? No. Healthcare has nothing to do with this issue, nothing. It's about the lowest common denominator juries perpetuating the idea of lottery payouts if you stub your toe because they hope to be there one day too.

As for push button transmissions, been around since the 50's at least. GM currently has one too. And let's not forget that virtually no automatic transmission today actually has a shifter connected to the trans. Everything is electronic, so whether its a column shifter, BMW's giant thumb shifter stalk, a rotary knob or something else, they're all just sending an electrical signal to the TCU.

All can be bumped or manipulated inappropriately, and its a matter of what sorts of interlocks/lockouts that the manufacturers implement to keep people from putting into reverse at 60 mph. A push button trans will have the same interlocks as a console shifter or anything else.

SC

SC



I've pressed the "reverse" switch on the Clarity FCEV quite a few times. It's very easy to do when you reach for the "Sport" switch to manage brake regen and "engine braking" (*). The "result"? Nothing, Nada, Zilch.

I think I hit the reverse in the TLX once too.. Nada, the car just ignores you and makes sure the transmission doesn't turn into a big grenade.

So, those pushbutton transmissions are NOT a problem at all. Actually, once you get used to them -like in 5 minutes- they release a lot of space in the front cockpit. If you have paddleshifters, then you're set, if not, you can just relax your right arm on the console and the controls easily fall to your fingertips (**)

Many of the foofoo stuff we're stuck with today in our cars is due to people just not knowing/caring how to drive. That's why "autonomous" cars and driving services are becoming so common. People just don't WANT to drive.

IMHO, the only driving tools that make sense are ABS, traction control, and torque vectoring powertrains. As a rule of thumb, I turn off ALL Hondacare nannies -which means I'm paying for at least $3K of crap I won't ever use... but that's because it's bundled with stuff I really like.

We got too many lawyers in this country and an out of control tort system.

(*) I miss the paddles that come with the PHEV.

(**) Well, in the TLX the power modes selector is too far back so you have to lift your hand and move it back and sort of LOOK. I wish they had it forward, like in the Clarity -or maybe alongside the reverse push button, built as a longitudinal rocker switch with a raised central ridge so you could feel it by touch. But then, I'm likely in the 1% that uses the driving modes actively to manage engine braking in traffic.






CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2019 17:03
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This has nothing to do with healthcare.

I don't think the US is necessarily over-lawyered. In fact, it's promising that if someone is being fucked over, they have recourse to be compensated. What I find strange as a Canadian is the concept of jury trials in civil (i.e. non-criminal) cases.

And What IS ridiculous is the final ruling brought on by the jury.

"What Honda said is, we met all federal regulations, and guess what? They did," said Milburn's attorney Charla Aldous. But this jury found that those federal regulations were not sufficient."

I don't see how this conclusion led to 2/3 of the fault being Honda's. Maybe the lawsuit should have included NHTSA and the majority of the fault assigned to the Uber driver? I'm not exactly crying over the fact that a multinational corporation like Honda lost a case, but this actually seems ridiculous and unjust.

Mechanic
Profile for Mechanic
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 05:51
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Several thoughts: First, American Honda's lawyers had the same opportunity to beguile/persuade the jury (with nonsense?) as plaintiff's counsel, and they failed to do it. They also no doubt had the opportunity to settle the case prior to trial, and they didn't do that either. In the world of tort litigation you never want to leave it to a jury to decide how to apportion blame, much less how much you owe. All of these potential consequences clearly were known before the case went to trial. You also have to wonder whether the results would have been the same for Ford or Chevrolet before a Dallas jury.

So, now it's on to round two, appellate litigation. If all this pisses you off, and it should -- and if you really want tort reform -- look to the SOBs in your respective state legislatures. Hold them accountable. If that requires too much effort and you can't be bothered to take on the issue, no problem: American Honda will be more than willing to tuck the $38M verdict onto the MSRP of your next new Honda, because, on way or another, you're paying for it!

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 07:26
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^I hear what you're saying. I do, but hey, Honda can raise the prices all they want. One thing they should keep in mind however, is the fact that there are many viable options available out there to the consumer now. With the 'reliability' playing field more level than ever, they might want to tread carefully.😏
HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 09:56
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CarPhreakD wrote:
This has nothing to do with healthcare.

"What Honda said is, we met all federal regulations, and guess what? They did," said Milburn's attorney Charla Aldous. But this jury found that those federal regulations were not sufficient."



This is not addressed specifically to you, CPD, just an opportunity to make a general point. Don't you find it interesting that the very people who complain the most about government overreach and want the government out of our lives are the very first people to try and hide behind the skirt of government when there is a problem?

As far as I know, Federal regulations are meant to be the MINIMUM standards. Nothing prevents automakers, including Honda from EXCEEDING those standards. In fact, I know Honda does that all the time and often boasts about it. I recall that the rear view camera became a Federal mandate at some point, to be installed on all vehicles, I believe by MY 2018 or 2019.

Seeing the safety and PR value, Honda installed them on all their vehicles before the mandate kicked in and made sure we all knew about it.

Nothing prevents a socially conscious company and its engineers from evaluating the minimum Federal standards and exceeding them if they wanted to do so. I think that's the message the jury was sending.


notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 12:05
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HondaForever wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
This has nothing to do with healthcare.

"What Honda said is, we met all federal regulations, and guess what? They did," said Milburn's attorney Charla Aldous. But this jury found that those federal regulations were not sufficient."



This is not addressed specifically to you, CPD, just an opportunity to make a general point. Don't you find it interesting that the very people who complain the most about government overreach and want the government out of our lives are the very first people to try and hide behind the skirt of government when there is a problem?

As far as I know, Federal regulations are meant to be the MINIMUM standards. Nothing prevents automakers, including Honda from EXCEEDING those standards. In fact, I know Honda does that all the time and often boasts about it. I recall that the rear view camera became a Federal mandate at some point, to be installed on all vehicles, I believe by MY 2018 or 2019.

Seeing the safety and PR value, Honda installed them on all their vehicles before the mandate kicked in and made sure we all knew about it.

Nothing prevents a socially conscious company and its engineers from evaluating the minimum Federal standards and exceeding them if they wanted to do so. I think that's the message the jury was sending.




Were you actually making a point, or just exposing yourself as the kind of bleeding heart PI lawyers love to have on juries?

Apply your logic to any sort of product across the board and manufacturers and businesses, who met all relevant standards and regulations, will be required to pay exorbitant settlements because of "the feelz" that they could have done more.

Honda's seatbelt worked. It was fully functional and it was compliant with all the regulations in place. The only reason that it didn't protect the plaintiff in this case is because the moron didn't use it properly. It's a freakin seatbelt, its not that hard. We have the same sort of belt on the 3rd row in our QX80, I didn't even have to think about how to attach it.

As for your "hiding behind the skirt of government" argument.....Really? Your position is untenable by any standard of logic beyond that of a 4 year old. Arguing against government regulation and overreach does not preclude someone using the defense of "we obeyed the law". In fact, in my world that's pretty much the ultimate defense, but clearly we're not living the same one.

SC

gogzy
Profile for gogzy
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 12:32
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50% of population does not use this type of seat belt properly? where do they obtain this study? my 9 years old know how to latch on these shoulder/lab belt when she was 6. I bet these failed to use properly think they know how to use it (but they actually don't). the car sold to consumer with owner menu and clearly show how to use it in the handbook. its the owner's/drivers job to pass the knowledge and ensure occupant know how to wear the seat belt properly, and weather wearing or not it's up to the occupant, and the occupant bear all the responsibility and liability for their own action. like someone bought a fridge and keep the food in fridge for 1 month, ate the food and died of food poison, manufacture of fridge is not at fault (all possible reason that cause this death?)... my opinion is, Honda is only at fault IF it provide wrong instruction in owners handbook, which is not the case here.

HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 13:39
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notyper wrote:
HondaForever wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
This has nothing to do with healthcare.

"What Honda said is, we met all federal regulations, and guess what? They did," said Milburn's attorney Charla Aldous. But this jury found that those federal regulations were not sufficient."



This is not addressed specifically to you, CPD, just an opportunity to make a general point. Don't you find it interesting that the very people who complain the most about government overreach and want the government out of our lives are the very first people to try and hide behind the skirt of government when there is a problem?

As far as I know, Federal regulations are meant to be the MINIMUM standards. Nothing prevents automakers, including Honda from EXCEEDING those standards. In fact, I know Honda does that all the time and often boasts about it. I recall that the rear view camera became a Federal mandate at some point, to be installed on all vehicles, I believe by MY 2018 or 2019.

Seeing the safety and PR value, Honda installed them on all their vehicles before the mandate kicked in and made sure we all knew about it.

Nothing prevents a socially conscious company and its engineers from evaluating the minimum Federal standards and exceeding them if they wanted to do so. I think that's the message the jury was sending.




Were you actually making a point, or just exposing yourself as the kind of bleeding heart PI lawyers love to have on juries?

Apply your logic to any sort of product across the board and manufacturers and businesses, who met all relevant standards and regulations, will be required to pay exorbitant settlements because of "the feelz" that they could have done more.

Honda's seatbelt worked. It was fully functional and it was compliant with all the regulations in place. The only reason that it didn't protect the plaintiff in this case is because the moron didn't use it properly. It's a freakin seatbelt, its not that hard. We have the same sort of belt on the 3rd row in our QX80, I didn't even have to think about how to attach it.

As for your "hiding behind the skirt of government" argument.....Really? Your position is untenable by any standard of logic beyond that of a 4 year old. Arguing against government regulation and overreach does not preclude someone using the defense of "we obeyed the law". In fact, in my world that's pretty much the ultimate defense, but clearly we're not living the same one.

SC


Amazing! Whenever the insults start flying you know logical analysis has ceased! You ought to be better than this SC.

Dren
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Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 13:48
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I found it both logical and insultfully refreshing.
HondaForever
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Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 13:54
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Dren wrote:
I found it both logical and insultfully refreshing.

Then that's your problem.

I suppose you've never seen the expression "Meets OR EXCEEDS all applicable federal standards"? That is the difference between ordinary and GREAT companies.

TonyEX
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Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 15:58
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HondaForever wrote:
Dren wrote:
I found it both logical and insultfully refreshing.

Then that's your problem.

I suppose you've never seen the expression "Meets OR EXCEEDS all applicable federal standards"? That is the difference between ordinary and GREAT companies.



THAT's the problem.

If you do something that is not required, some lawyer will come along and sue you as well.

It's a no win situation, so a company is often stuck to meeting the requirement to the letter, doing no less and no more, to avoid being found liable for doing too much or too little.

Like I wrote earlier, we need serious tort reform. We DO have too many lawyers in the USA.

CB77
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Re: Honda Loses a $38 Million Liability Lawsuit    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 16:16
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TonyEX wrote:
HondaForever wrote:
Dren wrote:
I found it both logical and insultfully refreshing.

Then that's your problem.

I suppose you've never seen the expression "Meets OR EXCEEDS all applicable federal standards"? That is the difference between ordinary and GREAT companies.



THAT's the problem.

If you do something that is not required, some lawyer will come along and sue you as well.

It's a no win situation, so a company is often stuck to meeting the requirement to the letter, doing no less and no more, to avoid being found liable for doing too much or too little.

Like I wrote earlier, we need serious tort reform. We DO have too many lawyers in the USA.



Yes, TonyEX...I saw the exact thing you are talking about, first-hand when I was with Honda in the Motorcycle division. I would sometimes suggest an improvement, that might improve performance or safety, to an existing model.

I would then be told by my manager: "We can't do that, because if we did, and then we later get into a lawsuit over one of our earlier-built models (without the improvement I had suggested) Honda will be attacked by the plaintiff attorneys, saying 'Why didn't you have this safety feature on the earlier models?' "

It's a good thing that Soichiro is gone...he would have a very tough time operating in today's legal/business climate.





 
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