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rev2damoon
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Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 22:24
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fishchan wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
A coworker of mine has a 2011 Mini Clubman. He recently replaced one headlight bulb. Other than that, it has been completely problem free. This is just one guy, but for what it's worth, I see Minis of all different generations running around. This includes older models as well. It ain't scientific, but I have to believe these folks are holding on to their Minis for a reason.



Someone I know who has a Mini has gearbox problem so bad the car cannot be used at all, so they now have a big paperweight.

It's quite unfortunate that the motoring world seems to be passing some folks by. They seem to be mentally stuck in 1995. Honda certainly isn't as reliable as it used to be and other automakers have made significant improvements. I don't need JD Power to show me that. There are tons of viable choices out there and it is great to have choices. Yes sir.


I don't know about you but I remember clearly the original EG9 automatics blowing up if you see VTEC too much. To their credit, they seem to fix the problem very quickly, although I am not sure how they did it. I think the point here most of us see (or at least the way I see it) is that Honda is able to solve their issues much quicker than other companies.


You should read Shawn's post above.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 23:22
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I think it is not reasonable to assume complaints against Honda and Acura products are over trivial issues, while complaints against other brands are over serious, expensive problems. Reliability survey methodologies, good or flawed, apply to all manufacturers. Given the large sample space of driving population, it is hard to imagine that by some chance Honda buyers are more demanding, or more ignorant, about Honda design or usability characteristics, and complain over small stuff.

I have been driving Acuras for 2 decades now. They used to be great as far as reliability is concerned. I used to recommend them to everybody who would ask for my opinion. This has changed recently. I bought a 2017 RDX because I wanted mature technology, but I never imagined rear shocks, hatch struts, and an AC blower would go bad within two years. I really don't need any statistical studies to tell me Something is rotten in the state of Honda.

Hondas are not terrible, but they are just an average or below average brand. At this point my advice to friends is to choose any car that checks most of the boxes for them. There is no need to sacrifice anything to get the superior Honda reliability, because the superior Honda reliability doesn't exist any more. To those who don't believe this, I wish the best of luck with their newer Acura (and Honda) products.


superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 01:20
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Sasker wrote:
I think it is not reasonable to assume complaints against Honda and Acura products are over trivial issues, while complaints against other brands are over serious, expensive problems. Reliability survey methodologies, good or flawed, apply to all manufacturers. Given the large sample space of driving population, it is hard to imagine that by some chance Honda buyers are more demanding, or more ignorant, about Honda design or usability characteristics, and complain over small stuff.

I have been driving Acuras for 2 decades now. They used to be great as far as reliability is concerned. I used to recommend them to everybody who would ask for my opinion. This has changed recently. I bought a 2017 RDX because I wanted mature technology, but I never imagined rear shocks, hatch struts, and an AC blower would go bad within two years. I really don't need any statistical studies to tell me Something is rotten in the state of Honda.

Hondas are not terrible, but they are just an average or below average brand. At this point my advice to friends is to choose any car that checks most of the boxes for them. There is no need to sacrifice anything to get the superior Honda reliability, because the superior Honda reliability doesn't exist any more. To those who don't believe this, I wish the best of luck with their newer Acura (and Honda) products.



I guess we will instead hope to have continued good luck with our relatively simple old Honda's.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 02:31
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superchg2 wrote:

I guess we will instead hope to have continued good luck with our relatively simple old Honda's.


I would hope so. I sold my 2006 TSX to someone I know. It is still going strong. Everything is still tight.

As far as I can remember these are the major non-maintenance work it has needed: Front door lock mechanisms went bad after about 6 and 8 years, some suspension parts (mainly bushings) were replaced at around 10 years, and I believe the new owner replaced the brake master cylinder last year.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 03:10
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Sasker wrote:
I think it is not reasonable to assume complaints against Honda and Acura products are over trivial issues, while complaints against other brands are over serious, expensive problems. Reliability survey methodologies, good or flawed, apply to all manufacturers. Given the large sample space of driving population, it is hard to imagine that by some chance Honda buyers are more demanding, or more ignorant, about Honda design or usability characteristics, and complain over small stuff.



How you arrived at this series of assumptions based upon the posts in this thread is perplexing.

The point is that the JDP study itself points out that most of the problems reported for all brands are relatively trivial. They are functional rather than failure related. And a substantial number of them have to do with infotainment, voice recognition and Bluetooth pairing (or exterior trim/fitment issues). Finally, the relative difference between best and worst (when not controlling for severity of problems) is about 1 problem per car over a 3 year period. 1...…..single...….problem.

As such, to make assertions of quality or dependability (the latter being the term of art used by JDP) is problematic at best, and downright disingenuous at worst.

This applies to all manufacturers and is, at the most elemental level, a condemnation of the JDP study for being little more than a shotgunned opinion piece that they can sell to some automakers for marketing purposes. I make no assertions about the quality of Honda vs. other manufacturers. I simply say that you shouldn't look to products from companies like JDP as being much more useful than anecdotal stuff (as so many have posted here) when it comes to quality and dependability assessments.

SC

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 03:12
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Sasker wrote:
I think it is not reasonable to assume complaints against Honda and Acura products are over trivial issues, while complaints against other brands are over serious, expensive problems. Reliability survey methodologies, good or flawed, apply to all manufacturers. Given the large sample space of driving population, it is hard to imagine that by some chance Honda buyers are more demanding, or more ignorant, about Honda design or usability characteristics, and complain over small stuff.



How you arrived at this series of assumptions based upon the posts in this thread is perplexing.

The point is that the JDP study itself points out that most of the problems reported for all brands are relatively trivial. They are functional rather than failure related. And a substantial number of them have to do with infotainment, voice recognition and Bluetooth pairing (or exterior trim/fitment issues). Finally, the relative difference between best and worst (when not controlling for severity of problems) is about 1 problem per car over a 3 year period. 1...…..single...….problem.

As such, to make assertions of quality or dependability (the latter being the term of art used by JDP) is problematic at best, and downright disingenuous at worst.

This applies to all manufacturers and is, at the most elemental level, a condemnation of the JDP study for being little more than a shotgunned opinion piece that they can sell to some automakers for marketing purposes. I make no assertions about the quality of Honda vs. other manufacturers. I simply say that you shouldn't look to products from companies like JDP as being much more useful than anecdotal stuff (as so many have posted here) when it comes to quality and dependability assessments.

SC

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 06:49
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I guess I look at reliability as more black and white. If the car is rendered undriveable more than once I'd say it's unreliable.

My TLX was in the shop 4 or 5 times related to the transmission. No matter how much I hated that transmission I couldn't honestly call the car unreliable because of it.

My BMW has been in the shop 3 times for trim pieces inside incessantly clicking during temperature transitions (and a couple other minor things). Would it be unreliable according to JDP? Annoying, sure. Unreliable, no.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 08:25
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notyper wrote:
Sasker wrote:
Statistics is a real science. People are experiencing real problems with Hondas and Acuras, and that is being reflected in "data point" after "data point". Most surveys I have seen in the past several years have been consistent about Honda and especially Acura's sinking reliability scores.

A decade ago fans of German and American car companies used to come up with excuses about why their favourite manufacturer got low reliability scores: "only small things go wrong", "my car has never stranded me", "my car is very complex", "drivers don't understand the technology", "drivers don't maintain their cars properly", etc.

Honda fans used to glow when seeing those rankings. Now they are coming up with similar excuses, as if cars from other brands experience catastrophic failures left and right, but Hondas and Acuras only have a little bit of rough shifts from the 9-speed transmission and a little bit of problem with the infotainment systems.



You know I actually taught statistics in grad school, and I still subscribe to the "lies, damn lies and statistics" school of thought. The problem isn't the numbers or the way we process them. That is a science/math and very easy to prove/disprove/replicate.

Rather, the problem lies in how we obtain the numbers and the meaning we assign to them (see climate change models and historical temperature proxies for a very powerful example of how to mislead with statistics).

In the case of the JD Power 3 year quality study, there are numerous issues when it comes to assessing what it means. To name just a few:

1) Self reporting - any sample which requires a respondent to self-report is subject to problematic bias. In particular in this case the bias may be related to perceived reliability expectations of the brand. Additionally, how problems are handled by dealers may also create respondent bias.

2) Definition of a problem - I reviewed the report for the JDP 3year study for 2014, 2015, and 2018. Some key quotes that should jump out at you from these reports:

-6 of the top 10 reported problems are design related rather than defects or malfunctions
-30% of powertrain complaints are related to transmission hesistation and/or rough shifting
-The most frequently reported problems are related to exterior
-The top 2 problems in 2015 reported by owners were bluetooth pairing/connectivity and voice recognition errors.

Also note that for the 2015 study JDP changed the categories/reporting criteria to better reflect new tech in cars and overall problems reported jumped. In fact, since 2013 the industry average has been bouncing around 130 problems per 100 cars. Honda has been suffering more since then as well, perhaps due to their dependence on outside suppliers for their IVE.

3) Significance of results. Keep in mind that even over a 3 year period we're talking about an average of 1.3-1.4 problems per vehicle for the industry. Since problems are integers, not fractions, that means we're generally talking about between 0 and 2 problems for most of the vehicles on the road. Over a 3 year period. And over half of these problems are related not to actual failures/faults, but just how the cars work from day one. What does this mean? It means that on the whole cars are extremely reliable, of high quality, and owners are subject to very few issues regardless of brand. Much like how the EPA keeps chasing ever lower emissions targets, the aftermarket quality assessments are chasing ever lower (and less significant) numbers of issues with cars and we're now in the area where noise plays a big role (or brand bias, or dealer service, etc.).

When you start trying to measure a sketchy sample and draw conclusions about changes that are within the noise, you're not helping anyone. I'm not saying that Honda doesn't have issues to deal with. All manufacturers do. I'm just saying that focusing on the JDP garbage doesn't really tell us anything meaningful. That a difference of 0.2-0.5 problems per car should probably not be a top 5 or even a top 10 selection criteria as defined. That complaints about how a car drives after 3 years, and has driven since day one, imply some serious lack of awareness by owners who in many cases should have been able to discern the issues on a test drive (some may take more than a short drive I admit).

If we want to measure quality and dependability properly, you have to do it a helluva a lot differently than what JDP does. In fact, I would suggest that if someone were interested in this business, they could put JDP on the trailer pretty quick by undertaking a more expensive, but more accurate means of measuring and providing it as an alternative to manufacturers who feel like they aren't getting good effect from JDP.
SC



I'm bumping Shawn's post because I think everyone in this thread should read it. Read the whole thing and pay particular attention to #3. There are tons of viable choices out there for people in the auto market to select from and at the end of the day stand a reasonable chance of landing a problem free vehicle. It's a good situation for us consumers. That is, unless you simply abhor choice and for what ever reason want to see only your preferred brand being driven. Being loyal to a particular brand today is fine, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking anything outside of our preferred brand, Honda or otherwise, is automatically utter crap and falls apart like a Lego model the moment you first hit the gas.

CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 16:34
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A Mike-Drop moment...apparently.


NSXman
Profile for NSXman
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 21:06
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I remember reading an article that quoted an American Honda official, I want to say it was when the Gen 1 MDX came out, that said something something to the effect that all cars are good so now auto makers are forced to up their game and make great cars.

The competition is sort of a funny thing, when bad cars became good cars, then that forced automakers into using tons and tons of tech that may or may not be reliable long term. But in general, it is a good thing for consumers. Particularly if the carmaker of your choice doesn't make the vehicle you want/need. You can step away from Honda for a full size truck or for a sub NSX class sports car and end up with a good car. That's Honda's problem, not ours.

xsr
Profile for xsr
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 22:40
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Very much a Honda problem. Our core group of family and friends, who owned multi generation of Honda/Acura products, have moved on to Audi, BMW, Subaru and MB. Not one currently owns a Honda or Acura and this is after YEARS of buying exclusively Honda/Acura. I no longer recommend Honda/Acura above others. Used to be Honda's trait but no longer, there are just too many great options out there. Honda is not what I remember them to be.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 23:35
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notyper wrote:
Sasker wrote:
I think it is not reasonable to assume complaints against Honda and Acura products are over trivial issues, while complaints against other brands are over serious, expensive problems. Reliability survey methodologies, good or flawed, apply to all manufacturers. Given the large sample space of driving population, it is hard to imagine that by some chance Honda buyers are more demanding, or more ignorant, about Honda design or usability characteristics, and complain over small stuff.



How you arrived at this series of assumptions based upon the posts in this thread is perplexing.

The point is that the JDP study itself points out that most of the problems reported for all brands are relatively trivial. They are functional rather than failure related. And a substantial number of them have to do with infotainment, voice recognition and Bluetooth pairing (or exterior trim/fitment issues). Finally, the relative difference between best and worst (when not controlling for severity of problems) is about 1 problem per car over a 3 year period. 1...…..single...….problem.

As such, to make assertions of quality or dependability (the latter being the term of art used by JDP) is problematic at best, and downright disingenuous at worst.

This applies to all manufacturers and is, at the most elemental level, a condemnation of the JDP study for being little more than a shotgunned opinion piece that they can sell to some automakers for marketing purposes. I make no assertions about the quality of Honda vs. other manufacturers. I simply say that you shouldn't look to products from companies like JDP as being much more useful than anecdotal stuff (as so many have posted here) when it comes to quality and dependability assessments.

SC



I definitely am not supporting JD Power's assertions, but I have seen a general uptick in issues with our Honda's starting circa 2000 under Yoshino, and precisely when he was pushing for quality cuts to keep Honda "cost competitive."

Our newer ones have been better, but have all still had a litany of small issues. Some of the stuff like paint runs, etc erodes my confidence in the brand.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 13:29
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Sasker wrote:
Statistics is a real science. People are experiencing real problems with Hondas and Acuras, and that is being reflected in "data point" after "data point". Most surveys I have seen in the past several years have been consistent about Honda and especially Acura's sinking reliability scores.

A decade ago fans of German and American car companies used to come up with excuses about why their favourite manufacturer got low reliability scores: "only small things go wrong", "my car has never stranded me", "my car is very complex", "drivers don't understand the technology", "drivers don't maintain their cars properly", etc.

Honda fans used to glow when seeing those rankings. Now they are coming up with similar excuses, as if cars from other brands experience catastrophic failures left and right, but Hondas and Acuras only have a little bit of rough shifts from the 9-speed transmission and a little bit of problem with the infotainment systems.



No, not quite true. From a scientific analysis, the "real problems" need to be weighted.

As others have noted, a serious engine problem does not have the same "real problem" statistical numeric value as problems pairing a phone. Those complaints need to be weighted and then a real statistical number calculated from it.

The FAA knows this, that's why it issues different kinds of failure values. A Level E value will not impede the operation of the aircraft in a safe manner ( ie: Apple Airplay ) while a Level A means you catastrophically fall out of the sky ( ie: Lucas Electronics ). Even an airbag equivalent problem would be considered at best a Level B... most likely a Level C only since it doesn't affect the operation of the car.

Look at it from this point of view... my Ridgeline's NAVI menus drive me nuts, so pretty much I ignore it... whenever my wife uses the truck, it messes up the pairing of my phone... so I pretty much ignore it. I start the calls with my phone and then I'll transfer it -if I so wish.

But, the truck drives very well and is very reliable. The only issue I've had so far were the brakes that were pulsating slightly and the dealer resurfaced the front rotors... but it never left me stranded and the issue got fixed quickly.

Every day, when I need to drive the car, if I push that dash button, the engine starts, the AC/heater work, the lights works, the wipers work, the transmission works, etc, etc...

And that, is what JC Power is not measuring right.

Once upon a time, a Decade Ago, when an in car entertainment unit was called a radio with cassette or CD player and cell phone were analog (hey never mind before when a "mobile phone" was either a radio phone or a public phone) we never had "real problems" with foo foo stuff that does not affect the reliability of the vehicle.

But then, I used to own an Alfa Romeo, and two of my coworkers had Jaguars, so I understand the meaning of "reliability".

So, as it now stands, JC Power is measuring as if it were still in the '80s and every problem was serious then. They need to implement an FAA DO-178B/C like approach and take into account the seriousness of the failure with regards to the safe operation of the car.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 13:35
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Sasker wrote:
superchg2 wrote:

I guess we will instead hope to have continued good luck with our relatively simple old Honda's.


I would hope so. I sold my 2006 TSX to someone I know. It is still going strong. Everything is still tight.

As far as I can remember these are the major non-maintenance work it has needed: Front door lock mechanisms went bad after about 6 and 8 years, some suspension parts (mainly bushings) were replaced at around 10 years, and I believe the new owner replaced the brake master cylinder last year.



I think you just hit on something that would truly measure the quality of a car:

Would you sell your car to a family member, friend, coworker?

I've sold my used cars to my family, friends and coworkers. With full disclosure and history. Those cars have never left anyone stranded.

Heck, I also sell my used cars to the used car managers at the dealerships, and they all give me top price, fast, in a matter of half an hour. So, that tells you something... Used Hondas sell well.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 13:54
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CB77 wrote:

One of my fellow Honda retirees, an engineer for both the Auto and M/C divisions, responded to me on this topic:

"When I was still working at Honda, results like this would have resulted in a good ass chewing and requests for immediate countermeasures by upper management.

Today is a great day to be retired from Honda"



I do know that the ashtrays would be flying this morning, if Soichiro was still alive. Of course we would not be ranked 18th and 26th, if he were still alive.




True, but then Honda would likely not put up with that Infotainment system. Why can't Honda have a uniform user interface across the product line?

And Odysseys would have ashtrays in the middle and back rows.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 14:18
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xsr wrote:
Very much a Honda problem. Our core group of family and friends, who owned multi generation of Honda/Acura products, have moved on to Audi, BMW, Subaru and MB. Not one currently owns a Honda or Acura and this is after YEARS of buying exclusively Honda/Acura. I no longer recommend Honda/Acura above others. Used to be Honda's trait but no longer, there are just too many great options out there. Honda is not what I remember them to be.


Aaaah.... the Rose Colored Glass Syndrome.

Look, do you remember how Civics, CRXs, Integra hatches all had those loud RATTLING rear parcel shelves? I kid you not, I used to wrap the male black plastic pins with black electrical tape so they would snap better into their female slots. It sort of helped, but still those contraptions tended to rattle, and I hate rattles!

The thing is that cars were much simpler then. Or rather, the USER INTERFACE was much simpler. I used to put aftermarket Sony/Concord/Kenwood/ADS systems in my old Hondas, about $1500 per car easy, but they were straightforward to use. The car proper was a simple as it could be... even when I got the GSR with power windows and door locks.

Heck, I remember when I went from the 84 Civic S to an 85 Integra LS with power steering. Yikes!

If I had a different source of cars, I would still hesitate to get a German car, even though my sister and mother seem to be doing fine... but they put very low miles in their cars. I'm the one that has a tendency to get on the road for 1200 miles at a pop, so I want something beyond reliable, I want it easy to drive!

I do like Subarus, not fast, but likely great for a long distance drive and safe enough with their AWD. We've had the RDXs for a while but somehow the Subaru wagon feel more of a road car ( If only AHM had brought us an SH-AWD TSX Sport Wagon!)...

You comment about Honda not being the "old Honda" applies to all. How else can you reconcile today's Benzes and BMWs?

Things change. Don't put on your nostalgia inducing rose color glasses.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 14:30
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TonyEX wrote:

No, not quite true. From a scientific analysis, the "real problems" need to be weighted.

As others have noted, a serious engine problem does not have the same "real problem" statistical numeric value as problems pairing a phone. Those complaints need to be weighted and then a real statistical number calculated from it.

The FAA knows this, that's why it issues different kinds of failure values. A Level E value will not impede the operation of the aircraft in a safe manner ( ie: Apple Airplay ) while a Level A means you catastrophically fall out of the sky ( ie: Lucas Electronics ). Even an airbag equivalent problem would be considered at best a Level B... most likely a Level C only since it doesn't affect the operation of the car.

Look at it from this point of view... my Ridgeline's NAVI menus drive me nuts, so pretty much I ignore it... whenever my wife uses the truck, it messes up the pairing of my phone... so I pretty much ignore it. I start the calls with my phone and then I'll transfer it -if I so wish.

But, the truck drives very well and is very reliable. The only issue I've had so far were the brakes that were pulsating slightly and the dealer resurfaced the front rotors... but it never left me stranded and the issue got fixed quickly.

Every day, when I need to drive the car, if I push that dash button, the engine starts, the AC/heater work, the lights works, the wipers work, the transmission works, etc, etc...

And that, is what JC Power is not measuring right.

Once upon a time, a Decade Ago, when an in car entertainment unit was called a radio with cassette or CD player and cell phone were analog (hey never mind before when a "mobile phone" was either a radio phone or a public phone) we never had "real problems" with foo foo stuff that does not affect the reliability of the vehicle.

But then, I used to own an Alfa Romeo, and two of my coworkers had Jaguars, so I understand the meaning of "reliability".

So, as it now stands, JC Power is measuring as if it were still in the '80s and every problem was serious then. They need to implement an FAA DO-178B/C like approach and take into account the seriousness of the failure with regards to the safe operation of the car.


I agree with most of your points. However, what I meant was, irrespective of any given survey's methodology strengths or problems, they treat Honda like other brands. I have first hand experience with Honda and Acura problems which are beyond software glitches (I have no issues with the two screen design, or any infotainment-related design and functionality). Friends with a 2018 MDX, and a 2018 CR-V both had their batteries completely drained after a few days of inactivity. That is a drivability issue. The friend with the CR-V had to deal with the gasoline/oil dilution and smell. The friend with the the MDX had weird drivability issues on a trip to the mountains a while back, which he couldn't reproduce when at the dealership. Both bought their crossovers in a large part because of my recommendation.

I have been rationalizing such problems for a long time, but this has gone too far. Honda and Acura are not doing well in most reliability surveys because of more serious issues, and I am getting more and more anecdotal evidence for that myself. Explaining them away based on the severity of issues just doesn't work for me any more. The same goes with the argument that all brands are pretty good and the differences are small. Under any given condition, I'd rather buy from a brand with a higher reliability rating.

I have been eyeing a mid-sized SUV for a while now, and have been following reliability reports in surveys and on forums. There is no way I'll ever buy a current-generation MDX. My wife who likes compact SUVs wanted a Q5 but I insisted on an RDX in hopes of better reliability. I am giving my RDX a little more time to see how it does. Another problem, and it is out, and I will not sell it to someone I know. There are so many better SUVs out there and life is too short to live with Acura's compromises if the reliability isn't there.

Maybe I have been unlucky, but I think statistical evidence supports my impressions.

ding
Profile for ding
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 21:06
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CB77 wrote:

One of my fellow Honda retirees, an engineer for both the Auto and M/C divisions, responded to me on this topic:

"When I was still working at Honda, results like this would have resulted in a good ass chewing and requests for immediate countermeasures by upper management.

Today is a great day to be retired from Honda"



I do know that the ashtrays would be flying this morning, if Soichiro was still alive. Of course we would not be ranked 18th and 26th, if he were still alive. My 1991 Civic wagovan is bulletproof. Even though it has only 80k on it everything still works!



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2019 22:04
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Interesting you brought up the RDX.

Our last one, a '16 Tech, developed a glitch that turned the dash into a Christmas light show.

We were in the middle of a summer trip and so this was a huge inconvenience. Since the dealer in Tacoma -a day lost- could not figure it out, we drove it 1600 miles back.

Other than the Christmas lights and the inconvenience, the car drove just fine in 100F summer weather.

Our home dealer eventually figured out the issue was with the firmware in the ABS box throwing a fault and that triggered the TCS, ABS, etc... but the vehicle was driving fine. Imagine that.

So, I think that a lot of the "faults' we see today -not all- are due to the complexity of the systems that are built around the basic functionality of the vehicle. And given the legal mentality and federal regulatory environment we live in, the firmware will throw a fault "JUST IN CASE".

Take your vehicle in, don't sue us.

So say the lawyers.

Sure, Hondas have always had issues, just like every brand. Heck our 02 Odyssey needed a new transmission at 26K miles! But at least, in my experience, these tend to be of a "hassle" nature, not an actual catastrophic nature and they don't cost that much to fix... if at all.

That is not to say, that some real issues happen every so often. The battery draining is an interesting point. Our '16 Civic Coupe had to have it first battery replaced within a month -the remote start wouldn't work. Then after a year, we replaced its battery with a non OEM brand. A much better brand. We didn't even bother to take it to the dealer under warranty because the OEM battery was not spec'd correctly.

Yet, yet... in the past, in our experience, we were lucky to have the battery in a Civic last more than three years. In an Accord class car, four years. And that was has been the case since the 80s.

At least our Hondas were not in the same league as a Bimmer or Benx where a fault would result in a repair costing in the thousands of dollars.

I should also note that in several occasions, if I could have ripped the NAVI stack off the dash, I would have tossed it out the windows.

For one thing. "voice recognition" is a sad joke. I can press a few buttons on the dash, a combination that I can learn very quickly, in a few seconds without losing attention to the road. But, with voice recognition, I might as well stop and spend an hour trying to get the damn thing to do what I want it to do.

Lawyers.


GoFaster
Profile for GoFaster
Re: Poor reliability scores for Honda and Acura    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2019 13:58
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For brand scores I wonder how much pickups hurt their scores. Taking your F-150 through construction zones every day is going to get things to rattle or break eventually. Imagine a Fit/Jazz going over ruts daily. Jeeps on average must take a beating compared to an Acura, but somehow Jeep has fewer problems? I suppose for Jeep maybe they also have less to break, but still to me their being anywhere but last is stunning.

It's also surprising that a sports car, 911, is on top. That is amazing considering they live on the bleeding edge. Is this making the NSX less special, because there is nothing better than a 911?

I would love to see the inner details of companies looking at repair data, inspecting broken components and designing better for the next year. Does Lexus do this better than everyone else? Seems like it.

With the surprises and Lexus staying on top for so long it is clear that you have to persist at improvement and when improvement isn't found then the process is broken.


 
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