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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Sunny came home with a mission

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Hondatalover
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The Happening    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 18:43
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;)



Hondatalover
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Re: The Happening    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 17:09
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Sent it away


[/url]


NealX
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Re: The Happening    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 17:20
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Forever?
superchg2
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Re: The Happening    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 17:47
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So, what is The Happening?
superchg2
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Re: The Happening    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 20:16
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superchg2 wrote:
So, what is The Happening?

A Vigor Mystery Tour perhaps?
:)

Hondatalover
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Re: The Happening    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 21:03
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Guys! I bought a replacement engine with 112K miles from the '94 GS donor. Guaranteed to be a good engine with a 30 day warranty but now that I saw under the exhausts manifold.... Looks like residue from maybe a blown head gasket? It's not coming from the valve cover but from where the head meets the block.

The oil wasn't milky and the coolant level was normal. There was some milkiness-chocolate looking oil in the spark plug tubes but I believe it was from sitting out in the open with the hood up and moisture mixing with the leaky tube seal oil.


Coolant was clean and green, oil in the block was clean, valve cover didn't have any milk/ foam in/under the cap. I didn't suspect anything until I saw the residue on the back of the block.

I guess it is possible it overheated? Though the damage didn't bust the radiator from my inspection and it wouldn't have stopped the car form driving anything else could have caused it to overheat like a stuck thermostat or a kinked rad hose or jammed fans.



we'll see. The swap should be done by Friday so I'll know more then I guess. If it comes down to it, I can have the head and block resurfaced and throw on a new head gasket and get some of my money back.

(not me talking)






superchg2
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Re: The Happening    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-15-2019 14:54
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Good Luck!
Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-05-2019 22:16
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Things are finally moving, conveniently after my 30 day warranty expires.

Hondatalover
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Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-11-2019 22:54
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None of you really care but this whole shop experience has been complete SHIT.

Gah, lets see.

1/14, car was brought to shop #1.

1/16, car was moved to shop #2 (Shop 1 was shut down by Fire Marshall)

1/16, shop #2 tells me if car was delivered by Thursday or Friday (17 or 18th) they could have it ready by the following Friday or Tuesday the latest (25th/ 29th)

1/24, I inquire about car. No progress, have not touched it. I become infuriated. Explain engine warranty expires on the 2-5-19 and something needs to be done. They assure it will get started on by the following Monday.

I remain patient.

2/5, shop has fly wheel ready for resurfacing. I have it resurfaced. Shop tells me "ready by Friday".

2/8, I call shop, shop does not answer. I leave voice mail asking about my car. Never got a phone call back.

2/11, I have a missed call, a voicmail from the shop. Asking to bring in a intake manifold gasket. ((?????why)

I bring in the manifold gasket (hoarder) and ask we it is needed, then I see why. They removed the 112K mile manifold from the 112K mile engine and were in the process of installing my 223k mile, metal debris contaminated manifold to the new engine.


I'm standing there with my box of Honda parts and ask why they had swapped the manifolds. "To reinstall your starter, sir".

I explain that 1, it didn't need to be removed to install the starter, especially while out of the car, and 2, that manifold is full of metal debris due to intake vacuum after cylinder 2's intake valve head obliterated the piston.

Their response? "Oh don't worry, I cleaned it out!"

My response? opens camera, films inside the manifold. And once I stopped recording he HEARD IT FROM ME.


I got pretty aggressive but not mental. Definitely enough to get his attention to understand the severity of what was going on. While making him look into the manifold I explained to him how that would have ruined the valve seats and scored the cylinder walls on my new engine.

He was shitting himself, couldn't find any words to explain himself but admitted he was sorry. Yay? That makes it ok right, all because I caught your fuck up? Yeah? No.

So I tell him to remove that shit, and get my good manifold out and back on the engine it was removed from. WHERE DOES HE GO? OUTSIDE. TO A PILE. OF. USED. ENGINE. JUNK. And picks my manifold up off the top and pours rain water out of it. Brings it into the shop and proceeds to blow the water out with an air hose.


At this point I am removing my old manifold myself, putting it to the side and helping him hold the good one while he blows it out. The whole time I'm asking myself what kind of payment he's going to dare demand after this is finally over.


We get that manifold cleaned up and the old gasket off and ready to install. I ask about the other work I requested done while looking all over the engine myself. The T belt, water pump, rear main seal, new clutch disc, thermostat, sensors, fluids, hose clamps etc. Everything I gave him a bullet point list of when I dropped the car and parts off. He assures me it was all done. Really not sure how I am feeling about his word.

I'll for sure take the car to an Acura dealer and have it looked over if they get this thing finished without killing it on the first start up.








Ya'll. Pray for me and this damn car or something. We needing it....

INCORRECT manifold being removed after I found the issue.


JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-11-2019 23:34
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Hondatalover wrote:
None of you really care but this whole shop experience has been complete SHIT.

Gah, lets see.

1/14, car was brought to shop #1.

1/16, car was moved to shop #2 (Shop 1 was shut down by Fire Marshall)

1/16, shop #2 tells me if car was delivered by Thursday or Friday (17 or 18th) they could have it ready by the following Friday or Tuesday the latest (25th/ 29th)

1/24, I inquire about car. No progress, have not touched it. I become infuriated. Explain engine warranty expires on the 2-5-19 and something needs to be done. They assure it will get started on by the following Monday.

I remain patient.

2/5, shop has fly wheel ready for resurfacing. I have it resurfaced. Shop tells me "ready by Friday".

2/8, I call shop, shop does not answer. I leave voice mail asking about my car. Never got a phone call back.

2/11, I have a missed call, a voicmail from the shop. Asking to bring in a intake manifold gasket. ((?????why)

I bring in the manifold gasket (hoarder) and ask we it is needed, then I see why. They removed the 112K mile manifold from the 112K mile engine and were in the process of installing my 223k mile, metal debris contaminated manifold to the new engine.


I'm standing there with my box of Honda parts and ask why they had swapped the manifolds. "To reinstall your starter, sir".

I explain that 1, it didn't need to be removed to install the starter, especially while out of the car, and 2, that manifold is full of metal debris due to intake vacuum after cylinder 2's intake valve head obliterated the piston.

Their response? "Oh don't worry, I cleaned it out!"

My response? opens camera, films inside the manifold. And once I stopped recording he HEARD IT FROM ME.


I got pretty aggressive but not mental. Definitely enough to get his attention to understand the severity of what was going on. While making him look into the manifold I explained to him how that would have ruined the valve seats and scored the cylinder walls on my new engine.

He was shitting himself, couldn't find any words to explain himself but admitted he was sorry. Yay? That makes it ok right, all because I caught your fuck up? Yeah? No.

So I tell him to remove that shit, and get my good manifold out and back on the engine it was removed from. WHERE DOES HE GO? OUTSIDE. TO A PILE. OF. USED. ENGINE. JUNK. And picks my manifold up off the top and pours rain water out of it. Brings it into the shop and proceeds to blow the water out with an air hose.


At this point I am removing my old manifold myself, putting it to the side and helping him hold the good one while he blows it out. The whole time I'm asking myself what kind of payment he's going to dare demand after this is finally over.


We get that manifold cleaned up and the old gasket off and ready to install. I ask about the other work I requested done while looking all over the engine myself. The T belt, water pump, rear main seal, new clutch disc, thermostat, sensors, fluids, hose clamps etc. Everything I gave him a bullet point list of when I dropped the car and parts off. He assures me it was all done. Really not sure how I am feeling about his word.

I'll for sure take the car to an Acura dealer and have it looked over if they get this thing finished without killing it on the first start up.








Ya'll. Pray for me and this damn car or something. We needing it....

INCORRECT manifold being removed after I found the issue.




No, this is quite interesting. I would love to take on a project like this but I don't possess the intestinal fortitude to wonder about what degree of expense may be lurking around the next corner.

Over the years, I've had fleeting thoughts of acquiring a beat up S2000, so that I can "tinker", drive the shit out of it on track, and leave mine in its current fine condition. I'm mostly scared of getting something that will cost way more to fix than I had anticipated, and then ending up having it sit on a lift somewhere indefinitely with a half populated engine bay, awaiting the next cash infusion to come around.


I always loved the zero-bullshit Nippon Seiki gauge clusters of Hondas from the '90s and early '00s. Perfect.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 00:10
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This is the type of project that works best if you DIY. I understand his reasoning, but the labor costs on this whole thing alone are going to probably be way more than getting the books and going the DIY route (even with a few mess ups).

Honestly, as far as "old" project cars go, Hondas are about the best place to start because they are relatively free of vices as they age. There can be big costs, but typically even major stuff like engine/tranny replacement aren't super crazy and the odds of it are pretty low. If they usually have a problem it is normally blatantly obvious.

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 00:40
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owequitit wrote:
This is the type of project that works best if you DIY. I understand his reasoning, but the labor costs on this whole thing alone are going to probably be way more than getting the books and going the DIY route (even with a few mess ups).

Honestly, as far as "old" project cars go, Hondas are about the best place to start because they are relatively free of vices as they age. There can be big costs, but typically even major stuff like engine/tranny replacement aren't super crazy and the odds of it are pretty low. If they usually have a problem it is normally blatantly obvious.



I really wished I had a paved driveway. If i did I would have quickly set up a tent, bought an engine hoist and a air tool set. But. Engine hoists don't roll too well on rocks.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 05:35
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I don't know about your 'zoning' regulations, but some ply flooring & batons might give you a 'tent base' that no-one would notice.

I agree with the others, basically. If you cannot find a decent mechanic, you'd be better off fucking it up yourself.

Since it's a project car, you'd probably find that more satisfying in the end.

You might need to 'bench-run' the engine, before the warranty explodes. Means pulling a lot of wiring out of the car, though.


Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 06:35
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Not a bad idea going with ply flooring. If you were closer I could probably snag you some snap together hard rubber/plastic flooring that'd probably work. Either way, I agree with the others, I'd do this one yourself. I rented garage space for beer from a coworker when I rebuilt my CRX years ago. Maybe you can score a similar agreement.
Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 07:34
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That seems par for the course for most of the independent shops I've encountered. My guess is the shop guy usually sees owners of old Hondas and Acuras ask him to just get their cars running as cheaply as possible. It doesn't make anything right. It maybe explains his work a bit though.

It's not the 1st or 3rd repair tab of $1000 which gets you down. It's the 10th or 20th tab and you realize what you've spent on a car which still looks like a used car. Like others here, I'd say do as much of the work yourself as you can, which is what you've been doing. It's an ambitious project and it's been cool reading your posts here. And each time I've seen an old TSX on CL I've thought, hmm, that could be a nice Track Night car.

After 30 or 40 years of needing your daily driver every day, you don't blink an eye at a routine Honda dealership service tab for your older Honda.

superchg2
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Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 14:06
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When I was looking at your pictures, the manifold looked unusual. I didn't realize that the I-5 Vigor has a dual-stage intake.

Too bad you can't find a competent Honda/Acura Mechanic that works on cars at home.

superchg2
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Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 14:16
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Hondatalover wrote:


I got pretty aggressive but not mental. Definitely enough to get his attention to understand the severity of what was going on. While making him look into the manifold I explained to him how that would have ruined the valve seats and scored the cylinder walls on my new engine.



Scary Stuff!

superchg2
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Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 14:28
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Hondatalover wrote:

We get that manifold cleaned up and the old gasket off and ready to install. I ask about the other work I requested done while looking all over the engine myself. The T belt, water pump, rear main seal, new clutch disc, thermostat, sensors, fluids, hose clamps etc. Everything I gave him a bullet point list of when I dropped the car and parts off. He assures me it was all done. Really not sure how I am feeling about his word.



Ask to see the old T belt and water pump.

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Finally    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2019 21:55
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superchg2 wrote:
When I was looking at your pictures, the manifold looked unusual. I didn't realize that the I-5 Vigor has a dual-stage intake.

Too bad you can't find a competent Honda/Acura Mechanic that works on cars at home.


It is what gives it that "vtec snarl" at 5,000rpm!

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-13-2019 23:37
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The bill was a lot more than I expected, but I had to bring it home to continue my mission.


Pictures of my car, now back in my possesion is great running order and my brothers Mustang. Ignore his front bumper damage. He hit a skunk and lost a foglight.









Impressions:

"New" 112K mile engine runs butter smooth, does not smoke or leak. They proved they did all of my requested services by keeping all of the old items they removed and putting them in the car (fine by me, the interior is DONE anyway). I am a lot more at ease now. Especially knowing the engine is fine.

The "new" 60K mile transmission is a tad bit notchy but it's getting better, especially once it warms up. Trying to remember that it sat 13+ years in a VA warehouse. It currently has fresh 10w40 engine oil in it but I'll be replacing that with some Honda MTF to see if it helps improve the shift feel. The BEST thing about the new trans is that it does not pop out of gear ever unlike my old one would with any sudden throttle input or sharp cornering. It also no longer has that mysterious "clacking" under deceleration. The clutch grabs so much better now too.

Overall workmanship: Ignored the manifold oopsie (not forgiven) the quality of work is actually pretty damn good. He put everything exactly back where it goes and put brackets and nuts+washers where they belong. I didn't expect it to be that well buttoned up.


Now for some concerns. I still have the 5,000+ rpm bogging out issue. I will remove the catalytic converter, replace the ECU, Fuel Injector Resistor pack and ignition coil and retest. My friend is lending me his wideband oxygen sensor off his Integra so I can monitor my fuel to air ratio, I just have to get a bung welded onto the pipe somewhere so I can mount it. I suspect a intermittent fuel pressure issue but finding why or if hasn't proved easy. I noticed the coolant reservoir is slowly going down. I believe the coolant system is just leveling out but will keep an eye on it. There aren't any leaks under or around the car and there are no signs of an internal head gasket leak... yet. Had a very small amount of yellow/ milky oil residue under the oil cap but I cleaned it off, drove about 30 miles and it hasn't came back, oil in the block is clean as a whistle, so probably no issue there. Coolant doesn't have any bubbles in it either.


Trying to get the windshield wipers back working sometime this week I hope. I'm due for an inspection by the end of the month, soooo yeah.






superchg2
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Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 00:24
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Quite a Project!
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 02:01
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Agreed quite the project. And your persistence and dedication is to be admired Hondatalover! :)
Nick GravesX
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Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 06:16
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Urgh - get some MTF in it quickly.

At least you've got it back and running - well done!

That bogging issue needs urgent tracing - nothing kills an engine like leaning-out, if that is the cause.

Can you get a paintless dent guy to improve the driver's door a bit - it's the only real blemish as the rest can be called 'patina'.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 13:02
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When I was a youngster (about 20), I had an Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 455 that needed to be rebuilt.

A friend of mine did the rebuild at his shop. After we re-installed the engine in the Cutlass it ran horribly. Turned out that they had the V-8's spark plug wires set up for a Chevy firing pattern.
Turned out, the Oldsmobile had a different firing pattern!


Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 16:10
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This morning I replaced the ignition coil with a new NGK unit and the injector resistor pack. Did a 2000rpm+ pull in second gear and right after about 5,000rpm I could feel it start to fall on its face progressively and then at 5,600 it bogged. Let off and coasted in neutral for a while and then into the and just cruised around gently for a while and didn't ever have any problems with normal driving.

I still have another ECU I can swap out in place of mine to help further rule out it being electrical.


Next place I'm looking is A/F ratio and fuel pressure then inspecting or just replacing the fuel pump and filters. Not going to forget about the fuel pressure regulator.

It is possible that it's faulty and returning fuel to the tank prematurely at a lower PSI than it should and It's only noticeable when injector duty is at 100% ?


The shop reused to old fuel rail and FPR since it was never detached from the under hood filter. I may swap the FPRs tonight and retest.


I really don't want to keep retesting this though. It's so scary risking the lean condition over and over.



Also tomorrow morning I am taking it to Acura and having the wiper circuit checked and hopefully fixed. Whatever it will cost, I need these things to work.




superchg2
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Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 16:18
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Hondatalover wrote:
This morning I replaced the ignition coil with a new NGK unit and the injector resistor pack. Did a 2000rpm+ pull in second gear and right after about 5,000rpm I could feel it start to fall on its face progressively and then at 5,600 it bogged. Let off and coasted in neutral for a while and then into the and just cruised around gently for a while and didn't ever have any problems with normal driving.

I still have another ECU I can swap out in place of mine to help further rule out it being electrical.


Next place I'm looking is A/F ratio and fuel pressure then inspecting or just replacing the fuel pump and filters. Not going to forget about the fuel pressure regulator.

It is possible that it's faulty and returning fuel to the tank prematurely at a lower PSI than it should and It's only noticeable when injector duty is at 100% ?


The shop reused to old fuel rail and FPR since it was never detached from the under hood filter. I may swap the FPRs tonight and retest.


I really don't want to keep retesting this though. It's so scary risking the lean condition over and over.



Also tomorrow morning I am taking it to Acura and having the wiper circuit checked and hopefully fixed. Whatever it will cost, I need these things to work.


I would have them check for the lean condition too, before you have another catastrophe.

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-14-2019 22:18
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Drove around for an hour after work, just normal easy driving and had no issues. No funky idling, no bogging really or anything*. Drove by and stopped at a new restaurant that opened a few months back and have been noticing this 2nd gen Integra GS is always there.

I had to be a creeper and ride by to get a pick of the cars together. Sue me! lol I had to seize the opportunity.






If I ever were to unfortunately rear-end someone while in the Vigor I'd likely scoop them up over my car like a ramp!



*Ok so I did notice while on the hwy, at around 70mph or so with a steady foot and with flat road it felt like the car was maybe loosing power but if I moved the throttle any, it seemed to be normal. Could just be paranoid. Not sure.

Also while in town I have noticed a "hissing" or very very faint grinding noise from the trans, mainly in 2nd and 5th gear. I wonder if that shop put new oil in it or if the oil I selected should be swapped immediately with some Honda MTF? May have Acura do that tomorrow for me. Kinda concerning. Shifting still feels about the same, a little more notchy than my old trans but it is staying in gear at least.

superchg2
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Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 01:28
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Hondatalover wrote:
I wonder if that shop put new oil in it or if the oil I selected should be swapped immediately with some Honda MTF? May have Acura do that tomorrow for me. Kinda concerning. Shifting still feels about the same, a little more notchy than my old trans but it is staying in gear at least.


"It currently has fresh 10w40 engine oil in it"

I think that I would put Manual Transmission fluid into your manual transmission ASAP.

Nick GravesX
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Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 05:05
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If you've never changed the tank filter, that could well be the cause of the leaning-out.

It's usually a bugger of a job, so gets ignored.

I'd start with the bleedin' obvious (filters, lambda sensors), before suspecting the ECUs. They normally either work, or don't.

Dren
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Re: Sunny came home with a mission    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2019 07:14
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Agree with Nick. Start from the source and work your way back. The lines could be gummed up, too. We fought similar issues with my Uncle's outboard. It ended up being fuel filters and lines gummed up.

 
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