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TOV Forums > Accord > > Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #

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danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2019 09:13
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garoto wrote:
owequitit wrote:
FlanaganID wrote:
garoto wrote:
Well, they give you the shit trim with an MT. They arenít selling because MT drivers donít want the shit trim.

Yeah, no. The 2.0T Sport is an EX+, and it's a great package. Only things it's missing from the EX-L are leather (obviously), sound system, mirror turn signals, memory seat, power passenger seat, and an auto-dimming mirror. Everything else is there, and the mirror is available as an accessory. The only major things missing are leather and the upgraded audio system, and let's be honest: Honda's top-end audio systems aren't great anyway.



That pretty much proves Garoto's point. In fact, all of those "missing" features you just listed are precisely why I am not currently driving an Accord Sport and have instead decided to put a new clutch, timing belt, tires, etc on my 2013 Accord instead.

Porsche and BMW have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the enthusiasts who will intentionally seek out a stick generally want it in a top model if it is offered. Honda is backwards in thinking that only "poor" people want a stick because they can't afford an automatic. If the Sport trim on the Accord were a Touring with appearance package and slightly more aggressive chassis tuning, with a 2.0T and MT, I would be driving one.

Don't get me wrong, I do really like the Sport and the Accord in general, but I don't see the logic in having to step backward in features in order to keep the stick.



That's what I was thinking, he proved my point there. The accord is beautiful, but no leather on that kind of car? I generally prefer cloth, but with the dish-wash shit material, And in an accord? Leather please. Today MT equals enthusiast. Enthusiasts want the nicest.

Because MT = enthusiast, you just can't cripple enthusiasts cars. So those MT need to have an LSD.

Regarding the $37K unmitigated disaster, the problem isn't a manual $37k car. think about it, the whole Accord, MT or not costs that much, and that's not a small ask from Honda.


The truth is that, among any kind of population (including so called enthusiasts), you always have a broad range of opinions. You could find the enthusiasts willing to have a Touring MT trim, and those that would complain about all the gimmicky and extra weight of the loaded trims, none of which they have use for.

In the end, it is obvious that the more MT trims they make the more they would sell, but it remains a market fact that there is so little demand overall that it'd be dumb for them as a company to offer them. So you guys may well not fit among those that were happy with Honda's market research, but there are a few thousands that were. Who knows, maybe if they had make the trim you wanted you'd be in the hundreds instead of thousands. Myself I sure would tend to think that a company like Honda has the resources to be better at estimating those things than us.


PS: I am the first to complain about Honda not matching my needs/tastes with the cars I'd like to buy, and yet still think they shall know better than me how to run their business.

FlanaganID
Profile for FlanaganID
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2019 11:24
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owequitit wrote:

Porsche and BMW have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the enthusiasts who will intentionally seek out a stick generally want it in a top model if it is offered. Honda is backwards in thinking that only "poor" people want a stick because they can't afford an automatic. If the Sport trim on the Accord were a Touring with appearance package and slightly more aggressive chassis tuning, with a 2.0T and MT, I would be driving one.

Don't get me wrong, I do really like the Sport and the Accord in general, but I don't see the logic in having to step backward in features in order to keep the stick.


The only vehicle currently on the market that can be ordered with a manual transmission and Accord Touring levels of features (HUD, ventilated seats, etc) is the BMW M6 Gran Coupe, and that's going away for the 2020 model year. So before you go blaming Honda, blame the entire market.

In fact, as of MY2020, the only BMW you'll be able to get with a manual is a 2-series, and the only Porsches will be the 718s and the 911 GT3 with Touring Pkg (cloth seats only!) if they keep that around while they're making the 992 gen.

The point is, the 2.0T Sport is not some bargain basement "shit trim" for "poor" people, and it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The combo of price, features, and transmission you want simply does not exist in a new vehicle, anywhere. You have to give up something. And IMO, this trim level requires you to give up very little. I think the closest you're gonna get elsewhere is the Genesis G70, which is more expensive than the equivalent Accord and still doesn't offer leather with the manual.

White98LS
Profile for White98LS
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2019 12:10
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FlanaganID wrote:
In fact, as of MY2020, the only BMW you'll be able to get with a manual is a 2-series, and the only Porsches will be the 718s and the 911 GT3 with Touring Pkg (cloth seats only!) if they keep that around while they're making the 992 gen.

The point is, the 2.0T Sport is not some bargain basement "shit trim" for "poor" people, and it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The combo of price, features, and transmission you want simply does not exist in a new vehicle, anywhere. You have to give up something. And IMO, this trim level requires you to give up very little. I think the closest you're gonna get elsewhere is the Genesis G70, which is more expensive than the equivalent Accord and still doesn't offer leather with the manual.

A few clarifications: You will be able to get a manual with the next M3/M4, as is the case with the standard 992 in a few months - they're just making PDKs first. You can also get the current 991 GT3 in manual without the Touring Pkg.

Aero2001
Profile for Aero2001
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2019 12:48
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Unlike other areas, the MT Accord Sports aren't that hard to find around Philly. I've seen a few listed on dealers' web sites, both 1.5 and 2.0 versions, and I tested a 1.5 a few weeks ago. Heck, FWIW, Honda's display at the Philly auto show includes a 2.0 MT, so they apparently believe it's worth promoting.

Overall, I think it's an excellent package and fantastic value, but an LSD would be nice and I wish it weren't so large. I'd prefer to go no bigger than my 2010 TSX. The G70 is about the same size, but the MT hasn't gotten uniformly positive reviews and isn't as readily available. (At least from what I gather looking on line.) And the Civic Si doesn't have Sensing, which I want.

So, if I had to buy today, it probably would be an Accord Sport 2.0T despite my issues with the size. At least it doesn't feel that big from the driver's seat, thanks to the light weight and good visibility. I could definitely live with it.

xman
Profile for xman
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2019 15:11
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Aero2001 wrote:
Unlike other areas, the MT Accord Sports aren't that hard to find around Philly. I've seen a few listed on dealers' web sites, both 1.5 and 2.0 versions, and I tested a 1.5 a few weeks ago. Heck, FWIW, Honda's display at the Philly auto show includes a 2.0 MT, so they apparently believe it's worth promoting.

Overall, I think it's an excellent package and fantastic value, but an LSD would be nice and I wish it weren't so large. I'd prefer to go no bigger than my 2010 TSX. The G70 is about the same size, but the MT hasn't gotten uniformly positive reviews and isn't as readily available. (At least from what I gather looking on line.) And the Civic Si doesn't have Sensing, which I want.

So, if I had to buy today, it probably would be an Accord Sport 2.0T despite my issues with the size. At least it doesn't feel that big from the driver's seat, thanks to the light weight and good visibility. I could definitely live with it.



Well then get one! We need less talk and more people to step up. My brother has a 1.5T Sport manual and it drives fantastic. Smooth clutch, precise shift, plenty of power for FWD sedan. Almost too easy to drive. Blows away the rated mpg's too. I think EPA assumes everyone is a novice when it comes to MT ratings.

outersquare
Profile for outersquare
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2019 15:45
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When I bought my 2018 2.0T there were many manuals for both 2.0T and 1.5T in Seattle area according to cargurus.com

Availability is a small time excuse anyways. If you ever shopped luxury cars and you want a particular configuration, you have to be patient and be willing to pay a small premium. Traveling for the car is always an option if you are a real enthusiast.

This isn't a supermarket where you can go whenever you want, where ever you want and get everything for cheap. Shows you what kind of people Honda customers are at large anyways.



owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-09-2019 00:28
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garoto wrote:
owequitit wrote:
FlanaganID wrote:
garoto wrote:
Well, they give you the shit trim with an MT. They arenít selling because MT drivers donít want the shit trim.

Yeah, no. The 2.0T Sport is an EX+, and it's a great package. Only things it's missing from the EX-L are leather (obviously), sound system, mirror turn signals, memory seat, power passenger seat, and an auto-dimming mirror. Everything else is there, and the mirror is available as an accessory. The only major things missing are leather and the upgraded audio system, and let's be honest: Honda's top-end audio systems aren't great anyway.



That pretty much proves Garoto's point. In fact, all of those "missing" features you just listed are precisely why I am not currently driving an Accord Sport and have instead decided to put a new clutch, timing belt, tires, etc on my 2013 Accord instead.

Porsche and BMW have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the enthusiasts who will intentionally seek out a stick generally want it in a top model if it is offered. Honda is backwards in thinking that only "poor" people want a stick because they can't afford an automatic. If the Sport trim on the Accord were a Touring with appearance package and slightly more aggressive chassis tuning, with a 2.0T and MT, I would be driving one.

Don't get me wrong, I do really like the Sport and the Accord in general, but I don't see the logic in having to step backward in features in order to keep the stick.



That's what I was thinking, he proved my point there. The accord is beautiful, but no leather on that kind of car? I generally prefer cloth, but with the dish-wash shit material, And in an accord? Leather please. Today MT equals enthusiast. Enthusiasts want the nicest.

Because MT = enthusiast, you just can't cripple enthusiasts cars. So those MT need to have an LSD.

Regarding the $37K unmitigated disaster, the problem isn't a manual $37k car. think about it, the whole Accord, MT or not costs that much, and that's not a small ask from Honda.




I didn't mind the seats, but I would want the connectivity, wireless charging, upgraded stereo, heated/cooled seats, HUD and some of the other Touring specific features. Either way, it is a mandatory step backward from my EX-L V6, and IMO, that is backwards thinking.

As far as Flanagan's comment about Honda's radios not being great to begin with, that is probably true, but A) They are still better than the lower end stereos and B) the days of just ripping the old system out and replacing it with a DIN unit are done. So that makes an automatic incentive to upgrade to the less shitty radio even if it still isn't an amazing system.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-09-2019 00:41
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danielgr wrote:
garoto wrote:
owequitit wrote:
FlanaganID wrote:
garoto wrote:
Well, they give you the shit trim with an MT. They arenít selling because MT drivers donít want the shit trim.

Yeah, no. The 2.0T Sport is an EX+, and it's a great package. Only things it's missing from the EX-L are leather (obviously), sound system, mirror turn signals, memory seat, power passenger seat, and an auto-dimming mirror. Everything else is there, and the mirror is available as an accessory. The only major things missing are leather and the upgraded audio system, and let's be honest: Honda's top-end audio systems aren't great anyway.



That pretty much proves Garoto's point. In fact, all of those "missing" features you just listed are precisely why I am not currently driving an Accord Sport and have instead decided to put a new clutch, timing belt, tires, etc on my 2013 Accord instead.

Porsche and BMW have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the enthusiasts who will intentionally seek out a stick generally want it in a top model if it is offered. Honda is backwards in thinking that only "poor" people want a stick because they can't afford an automatic. If the Sport trim on the Accord were a Touring with appearance package and slightly more aggressive chassis tuning, with a 2.0T and MT, I would be driving one.

Don't get me wrong, I do really like the Sport and the Accord in general, but I don't see the logic in having to step backward in features in order to keep the stick.



That's what I was thinking, he proved my point there. The accord is beautiful, but no leather on that kind of car? I generally prefer cloth, but with the dish-wash shit material, And in an accord? Leather please. Today MT equals enthusiast. Enthusiasts want the nicest.

Because MT = enthusiast, you just can't cripple enthusiasts cars. So those MT need to have an LSD.

Regarding the $37K unmitigated disaster, the problem isn't a manual $37k car. think about it, the whole Accord, MT or not costs that much, and that's not a small ask from Honda.


The truth is that, among any kind of population (including so called enthusiasts), you always have a broad range of opinions. You could find the enthusiasts willing to have a Touring MT trim, and those that would complain about all the gimmicky and extra weight of the loaded trims, none of which they have use for.

In the end, it is obvious that the more MT trims they make the more they would sell, but it remains a market fact that there is so little demand overall that it'd be dumb for them as a company to offer them. So you guys may well not fit among those that were happy with Honda's market research, but there are a few thousands that were. Who knows, maybe if they had make the trim you wanted you'd be in the hundreds instead of thousands. Myself I sure would tend to think that a company like Honda has the resources to be better at estimating those things than us.


PS: I am the first to complain about Honda not matching my needs/tastes with the cars I'd like to buy, and yet still think they shall know better than me how to run their business.



Sounds like you are making apologies. Most of the MT models that sell in this day and age are relatively loaded. When you are dealing with a car that is well over 3,000lbs the amount of weight added by things like power windows and heated seats is not as significant as it was in 1985. Plus, let's be honest with ourselves. Nobody is buying something like an Accord MT because they want to track it to the point where the extra 30lbs matters. They want a fun, sporty, comfortable and performance oriented street car.

This assertion that enthusiasts can only enjoy maximum attack race prepped sports cars is just silly. Yes, there is a market for those cars, but it is not the only market.

That said, is this market research you reference the same research that told Honda the ZDX, RLX, ILX, Crosstour, Insight, CRZ, and Element were fantastic ideas? The problem with "market research" is that you can ultimately make it say whatever you want to hear, whether true and accurate or not.


NorCalSales
Profile for NorCalSales
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-09-2019 09:17
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MT take is actually pretty much in the sweet spot on the Accord right now... I get pretty much what I ask for every time without having to wait a month or two to get what I want (which was normal on the V6 6MT, if I couldn't order it one month I could get it the next usually sort of thing)

I have yet to have a buyer ask me once for a Touring MT or when it is coming and people love to share opinions with me in my position.

vh2k wrote:
In recent years, a dealer would have a couple of V6-6MT Accords and they would sit on the lot for six months. They just donít sell.


That's not true... V6 6MT had a great turn, it was every other coupe that was utter garbage inventory.

skapig
Profile for skapig
Re: Factoid: 2018 Accord Manual Transmission Sales #    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-09-2019 10:29
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NorCalSales wrote:
vh2k wrote:
In recent years, a dealer would have a couple of V6-6MT Accords and they would sit on the lot for six months. They just donít sell.


That's not true... V6 6MT had a great turn, it was every other coupe that was utter garbage inventory.



It wasn't true everywhere, but it was the case for the Northeast from mid 2017 to early 2018.


 
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