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TOV Forums > RDX > > Re: I have an RDX service loaner

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NSXman
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I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 19:50
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I have a 2019 RDX for a service loaner while I have my MDX worked on.

Funny to me, the car mags say the 14 MDX is faster (even if marginally so) in every measurable category than the 2019 RDX. But by the seat of the pants the RDX feels much, much faster. I know the turbo vs NA might account for some of that "feel", but otherwise, what gives on that?

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 19:56
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NSXman wrote:
I have a 2019 RDX for a service loaner while I have my MDX worked on.

Funny to me, the car mags say the 14 MDX is faster (even if marginally so) in every measurable category than the 2019 RDX. But by the seat of the pants the RDX feels much, much faster. I know the turbo vs NA might account for some of that "feel", but otherwise, what gives on that?



I'm assuming it's FWD? If so, that's probably why. I don't think anybody's formally tested a FWD 2019 RDX yet. I've been told by Acura engineers that it's a blast (and most of them told me it was their 'favorite') to drive. I've only ever driven the SH-AWD versions. (Side note: I've never had the chance to drive a FWD MDX because they don't put them in the press fleets.)

I remember when they finally released the 1st gen RDX in FWD config. It felt SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than any of the SH-AWD versions I had driven.



Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 20:23
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This seems be a common issue for Acura to much drivetrain loss with SHAWD, same issue with TL was faster in FWD spec. I suspect its a gearing issue to protect the rear differential but if you are going to claim SHAWD as performance it must show, other companies who offer AWD usually dont take a hit on performance, look at the beast M5. Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 20:44
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Mikeydred wrote:
Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?

Can't imagine a bit of extra front weight bias would have much effect, if you're using AWD for traction? Blame it on trying to protect the rear diff, which in Honda's case is understandable, they don't have your American propensity for focusing on drag race numbers, they would be more focused on circuit track times, where the lower weight of a "lightweight" rear diff would be more important.

Will be interesting to see how they resolve it going forward, with the high torque numbers the new TTV6 will have?

Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 21:04
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sadlerau wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?

Can't imagine a bit of extra front weight bias would have much effect, if you're using AWD for traction? Blame it on trying to protect the rear diff, which in Honda's case is understandable, they don't have your American propensity for focusing on drag race numbers, they would be more focused on circuit track times, where the lower weight of a "lightweight" rear diff would be more important.

Will be interesting to see how they resolve it going forward, with the high torque numbers the new TTV6 will have?


Im hoping for a rear bias system in the future similar to quattro. Hopefully software programing could allow it to happen. Will not fix the moving parts issues but I am sure they will beef those up for the added power and torque of the V6 turbo.

NSXman
Profile for NSXman
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 21:12
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JeffX wrote:
NSXman wrote:
I have a 2019 RDX for a service loaner while I have my MDX worked on.

Funny to me, the car mags say the 14 MDX is faster (even if marginally so) in every measurable category than the 2019 RDX. But by the seat of the pants the RDX feels much, much faster. I know the turbo vs NA might account for some of that "feel", but otherwise, what gives on that?





I'm assuming it's FWD? If so, that's probably why. I don't think anybody's formally tested a FWD 2019 RDX yet. I've been told by Acura engineers that it's a blast (and most of them told me it was their 'favorite') to drive. I've only ever driven the SH-AWD versions. (Side note: I've never had the chance to drive a FWD MDX because they don't put them in the press fleets.)

I remember when they finally released the 1st gen RDX in FWD config. It felt SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than any of the SH-AWD versions I had driven.





Yep, the loaner is FWD and my MDX is SHAWD. I suppose thatís it.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 21:38
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Mikeydred wrote:
Im hoping for a rear bias system in the future similar to quattro. Hopefully software programing could allow it to happen. Will not fix the moving parts issues but I am sure they will beef those up for the added power and torque of the V6 turbo.


Are we after a hole-shot champion, or a great handling sports sedan? Yes it will be nice to be able to put down heaps of torque and win stop light drags, but do we expect Honda to give us that??

For me, much as I like winning, give me a car that's light on it's feet, like the RLegendo was. Keep in mind my experience was with the Euro/Japanese iteration of the 2006 Legend, but I found that with just changing the tyre pressures it transformed the handling characteristics that car gave. Back when I was choosing my next vehicle in 2012, I tried the A5 with the torque vectoring AWD, and for me, it didn't handle as well as my Legend with a simple tweak of tyre pressures. No it wasn't my imagination, at the time I was spending a lot of time on race tracks honing my perception skills.

As for the standard Quattro's handling [as in my A6], clunky at best. Sure it gives that RWD tail out attitude, and allows you to put down all 580Nm of torque really well, but that's traction, not handling.

I'm sure IF Honda set their mind to it, they can build an awe-inspiring Sports Sedan, I give you exhibit A, the CTR as evidence............ Just wish they would!!

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 23:39
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Mikeydred wrote:
This seems be a common issue for Acura to much drivetrain loss with SHAWD, same issue with TL was faster in FWD spec. I suspect its a gearing issue to protect the rear differential but if you are going to claim SHAWD as performance it must show, other companies who offer AWD usually dont take a hit on performance, look at the beast M5. Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?



Not likely a driveline drag issue.

I am pretty sure it is that they limit the torque in the lower gears to protect the durability of the drivetrain, i.e. in 1st through say 3rd gear, you aren't really getting full rated power because the ECU is not giving you 100%. That limitation doesn't apply on FWD because it will just easily melt the front tires off and the excess torque isn't going to destroy expensive components.

RMTRADER
Profile for RMTRADER
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 00:35
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owequitit wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
This seems be a common issue for Acura to much drivetrain loss with SHAWD, same issue with TL was faster in FWD spec. I suspect its a gearing issue to protect the rear differential but if you are going to claim SHAWD as performance it must show, other companies who offer AWD usually dont take a hit on performance, look at the beast M5. Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?



Not likely a driveline drag issue.

I am pretty sure it is that they limit the torque in the lower gears to protect the durability of the drivetrain, i.e. in 1st through say 3rd gear, you aren't really getting full rated power because the ECU is not giving you 100%. That limitation doesn't apply on FWD because it will just easily melt the front tires off and the excess torque isn't going to destroy expensive components.



I think it is just in first because second gear rips. Evidenced by my trouncing of an X3 this evening on a roll.

Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 12:55
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sadlerau wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
Im hoping for a rear bias system in the future similar to quattro. Hopefully software programing could allow it to happen. Will not fix the moving parts issues but I am sure they will beef those up for the added power and torque of the V6 turbo.


Are we after a hole-shot champion, or a great handling sports sedan? Yes it will be nice to be able to put down heaps of torque and win stop light drags, but do we expect Honda to give us that??

For me, much as I like winning, give me a car that's light on it's feet, like the RLegendo was. Keep in mind my experience was with the Euro/Japanese iteration of the 2006 Legend, but I found that with just changing the tyre pressures it transformed the handling characteristics that car gave. Back when I was choosing my next vehicle in 2012, I tried the A5 with the torque vectoring AWD, and for me, it didn't handle as well as my Legend with a simple tweak of tyre pressures. No it wasn't my imagination, at the time I was spending a lot of time on race tracks honing my perception skills.

As for the standard Quattro's handling [as in my A6], clunky at best. Sure it gives that RWD tail out attitude, and allows you to put down all 580Nm of torque really well, but that's traction, not handling.

I'm sure IF Honda set their mind to it, they can build an awe-inspiring Sports Sedan, I give you exhibit A, the CTR as evidence............ Just wish they would!!


I have sampled enough of SHAWD daily driver is 09 TL and wifes is 17 MDX, its nice to have that extra punch off the line especially when trying to get ahead of traffic. Over the years I have been able to defy the laws of the 5 AT in my car by really getting down on the medal, but I certainly feel like I have certainly lost a few ponies or maybe its just cars are getting faster. I am not an agressive driver by any means, but when you have Corolla's trying to cut you off on a merging lane I want my vechicle to be able to respond, they dont call us Massholes for no reason. When I drove the S5 sportback there was no hesistation whatsoever, thats what I want from Acura.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 19:29
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Mikeydred wrote:
.... but when you have Corolla's trying to cut you off on a merging lane I want my vechicle to be able to respond, they dont call us Massholes for no reason. When I drove the S5 sportback there was no hesistation whatsoever, thats what I want from Acura.


Get the Ridgeline BE.

That wimpy Corolla will get out of your way.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 19:39
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owequitit wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
This seems be a common issue for Acura to much drivetrain loss with SHAWD, same issue with TL was faster in FWD spec. I suspect its a gearing issue to protect the rear differential but if you are going to claim SHAWD as performance it must show, other companies who offer AWD usually dont take a hit on performance, look at the beast M5. Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?



Not likely a driveline drag issue.

I am pretty sure it is that they limit the torque in the lower gears to protect the durability of the drivetrain, i.e. in 1st through say 3rd gear, you aren't really getting full rated power because the ECU is not giving you 100%. That limitation doesn't apply on FWD because it will just easily melt the front tires off and the excess torque isn't going to destroy expensive components.



I can believe that.

In our '16 TLX V6 SH-AWD, even when I put it on Sport II (manual) mode, turning OFF the traction nannies and using the paddles, there was NO way I could lose traction off the line. Given that the car has enough power to melt those tires, the only explanation is that the computer manages traction ALL the time.

OTOH, it was a very easy car to drive up off the line. The proverbial step on it until you figure you should not go so fast...

The same with our RDX AWDs (non SH-AWD) and our Ridgeline. For all intents and purposes, traction control is undefeatable.

Which, it sort of makes sense. After all, the reason for getting an AWD is for TRACTION.

I suppose I ought to try the traction modes in the Ridgeline. Will "gravel" allow wheel spin?


Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-12-2019 02:42
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The K20C4 is quite powerful. I have seen people doing 13.1@109mph in the accord 10at with other ,downpipe, and intake.
RMTRADER
Profile for RMTRADER
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-12-2019 03:18
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I just drove my wife's SH-AWD RDX this evening and tried a couple of off the line hard launches. The issue with this drvetrain is that there is about half a second of nothing and then what feels like full boost. And then it legitimately flies. Too bad it doesn't have launch control.
wanga
Profile for wanga
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-12-2019 19:59
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NSXman wrote:
I have a 2019 RDX for a service loaner while I have my MDX worked on.

Funny to me, the car mags say the 14 MDX is faster (even if marginally so) in every measurable category than the 2019 RDX. But by the seat of the pants the RDX feels much, much faster. I know the turbo vs NA might account for some of that "feel", but otherwise, what gives on that?



we have a 2019 rdx A spec and 2018 MDX techno,both of then 4wd , we race them ,the RDX is way faster than the MDX, we switch drivers ,same result.RDX smoke the MDX



Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-13-2019 21:30
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Mikeydred wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?

Can't imagine a bit of extra front weight bias would have much effect, if you're using AWD for traction? Blame it on trying to protect the rear diff, which in Honda's case is understandable, they don't have your American propensity for focusing on drag race numbers, they would be more focused on circuit track times, where the lower weight of a "lightweight" rear diff would be more important.

Will be interesting to see how they resolve it going forward, with the high torque numbers the new TTV6 will have?


Im hoping for a rear bias system in the future similar to quattro. Hopefully software programing could allow it to happen. Will not fix the moving parts issues but I am sure they will beef those up for the added power and torque of the V6 turbo.



The newest version in the RDX is already more rear biased when pressed. The system in my TL is rear biased also when I need to corner aggressively but the newest system is even more rear biased per Acura.

RMTRADER
Profile for RMTRADER
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-13-2019 23:19
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Civicb18 wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?

Can't imagine a bit of extra front weight bias would have much effect, if you're using AWD for traction? Blame it on trying to protect the rear diff, which in Honda's case is understandable, they don't have your American propensity for focusing on drag race numbers, they would be more focused on circuit track times, where the lower weight of a "lightweight" rear diff would be more important.

Will be interesting to see how they resolve it going forward, with the high torque numbers the new TTV6 will have?


Im hoping for a rear bias system in the future similar to quattro. Hopefully software programing could allow it to happen. Will not fix the moving parts issues but I am sure they will beef those up for the added power and torque of the V6 turbo.



The newest version in the RDX is already more rear biased when pressed. The system in my TL is rear biased also when I need to corner aggressively but the newest system is even more rear biased per Acura.



The reference to Quattro is funny because all 'Quattro' systems are not the same. Some are bloody Haldex.

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 22:53
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RMTRADER wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?

Can't imagine a bit of extra front weight bias would have much effect, if you're using AWD for traction? Blame it on trying to protect the rear diff, which in Honda's case is understandable, they don't have your American propensity for focusing on drag race numbers, they would be more focused on circuit track times, where the lower weight of a "lightweight" rear diff would be more important.

Will be interesting to see how they resolve it going forward, with the high torque numbers the new TTV6 will have?


Im hoping for a rear bias system in the future similar to quattro. Hopefully software programing could allow it to happen. Will not fix the moving parts issues but I am sure they will beef those up for the added power and torque of the V6 turbo.



The newest version in the RDX is already more rear biased when pressed. The system in my TL is rear biased also when I need to corner aggressively but the newest system is even more rear biased per Acura.



The reference to Quattro is funny because all 'Quattro' systems are not the same. Some are bloody Haldex.



The Haldex systems are in the lower end products that are on the VW based MQB platform, so the Q3, A3, TT all use the Haldex system. The MLB Audiís use Quattro, the Sport diff is optional on all S Audiís with the RSí getting it standard.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: I have an RDX service loaner    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 14:54
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TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
This seems be a common issue for Acura to much drivetrain loss with SHAWD, same issue with TL was faster in FWD spec. I suspect its a gearing issue to protect the rear differential but if you are going to claim SHAWD as performance it must show, other companies who offer AWD usually dont take a hit on performance, look at the beast M5. Is it because of the laws of physics with FWD to much mass up front to overcome?



Not likely a driveline drag issue.

I am pretty sure it is that they limit the torque in the lower gears to protect the durability of the drivetrain, i.e. in 1st through say 3rd gear, you aren't really getting full rated power because the ECU is not giving you 100%. That limitation doesn't apply on FWD because it will just easily melt the front tires off and the excess torque isn't going to destroy expensive components.



I can believe that.

In our '16 TLX V6 SH-AWD, even when I put it on Sport II (manual) mode, turning OFF the traction nannies and using the paddles, there was NO way I could lose traction off the line. Given that the car has enough power to melt those tires, the only explanation is that the computer manages traction ALL the time.

OTOH, it was a very easy car to drive up off the line. The proverbial step on it until you figure you should not go so fast...

The same with our RDX AWDs (non SH-AWD) and our Ridgeline. For all intents and purposes, traction control is undefeatable.

Which, it sort of makes sense. After all, the reason for getting an AWD is for TRACTION.

I suppose I ought to try the traction modes in the Ridgeline. Will "gravel" allow wheel spin?





Back when you could get a 6MT TL SH-AWD, you could see that torque management was a major issue, as sidestepping the clutch in 1st would result in a SMOKY FWD burnout. Nothing seemingly going to the rear axle, so thus no sub 5-second 0-60 like most would expect.


 
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