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Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 12:58
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Poor OP. Why donít we move this whole lease vs buy argument to a whole new post, it is off the original topic.

I think it is a valuable debate. They both have their plus and minuses.

B.

RMTRADER
Profile for RMTRADER
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 13:04
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Yeah. Sorry.

I wonít reply about leasing again on this thread.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 15:11
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notyper wrote:
TonyEX wrote:


No kidding.

I still recall buying a Civic for $11K including the AC. And I thought that was expensive.

Part of the reason we went for the Ridgeline vs. the Pilot was cost too. The Pilot gives up some seats but it costs a lot more too.

Then you got those Big Two and Fiat full sized trucks. Costing almost 100K nowadays.

How do people do it? Are they rich or do just owe more than I do?



Very few people pay anywhere close to list Tony. If you're not getting $10-$15k off a new full size truck from the big3 then you're not doing it right. Maybe some of the special edition diesels will command list, but those are not the majority of sales.

As for the whole lease vs. buy thing, I've discovered that there are very few cars I like enough to keep for long, so I sample as many as I can in various ways that cost me little to nothing, and then buy the ones I really like and keep em forever (S2000, CTS-V, and when I find my dream Porsche that will be a keeper too I think).

SC




True, but even so, people are paying upwards of $40K and $50K on those big trucks. And much, much more still.

What is their resale value then?

Perhaps it runs in my genes... I spend money but I always look for value. In the past, we've done well buying our own vehicles coming off lease or buying low mileage used vehicles. Of course, we have the inside line, so we pay less but the idea is always the same.

Indeed, the only cars that I will own long enough to replace the windshield wipers tend to be the ones that we never, ever bought new.

Even the S2K, we had the opportunity to buy one, used, but that was a "press car" and it had some 5000 bucks of track damage repair (yep, those "car" guys are not necessarily such good drivers) so we passed.

My wife is making noise about retiring... so she now only wants to lease cars that we will consider buying off lease. For some reason, that means it all has to be AWD.

I may have to learn how to replace the windshield wipers.

My retirement cars would be a CTR and perhaps an Acura Sport Wagon with SH-AWD.


notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 15:29
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The high end trucks, particularly the heavy duty models tend to do very well. According to KBB (as opposed to looking at lease residuals) most of them will retain low 60% value after 3 years and still be in the low to mid-50s after 5 years. Even the more pedestrian models (non-diesel, 1500 lbs rating) still retain close to 60% after 3 and 50% after 5 years.

Comparatively KBB states that an Accord is at 50% after 3 years and 35% after 5 years (and apparently Accord is tops in its class according to KBB).

https://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-resale-top-10-cars/

SC

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 16:00
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notyper wrote:
The high end trucks, particularly the heavy duty models tend to do very well. According to KBB (as opposed to looking at lease residuals) most of them will retain low 60% value after 3 years and still be in the low to mid-50s after 5 years. Even the more pedestrian models (non-diesel, 1500 lbs rating) still retain close to 60% after 3 and 50% after 5 years.

Comparatively KBB states that an Accord is at 50% after 3 years and 35% after 5 years (and apparently Accord is tops in its class according to KBB).

https://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-resale-top-10-cars/

SC



Wow, the Ridgeline is the top resale Honda vehicle! 60% after three years...

I could make a Ridgeline BE my retirement vehicle if they fix the rear door swing, add three inches to the cab, put a locking tailgate and fix the interference between the OEM tonneau and the trunk lid. My feels much more comfortable when we drive the truck on our winter trips up the mountain passes.

RMTRADER
Profile for RMTRADER
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 16:23
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TonyEX wrote:
notyper wrote:
The high end trucks, particularly the heavy duty models tend to do very well. According to KBB (as opposed to looking at lease residuals) most of them will retain low 60% value after 3 years and still be in the low to mid-50s after 5 years. Even the more pedestrian models (non-diesel, 1500 lbs rating) still retain close to 60% after 3 and 50% after 5 years.

Comparatively KBB states that an Accord is at 50% after 3 years and 35% after 5 years (and apparently Accord is tops in its class according to KBB).

https://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-resale-top-10-cars/

SC



Wow, the Ridgeline is the top resale Honda vehicle! 60% after three years...

I could make a Ridgeline BE my retirement vehicle if they fix the rear door swing, add three inches to the cab, put a locking tailgate and fix the interference between the OEM tonneau and the trunk lid. My feels much more comfortable when we drive the truck on our winter trips up the mountain passes.



Whatís the issue with the rear door swing?

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 23:36
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RMTRADER wrote:
owequitit wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:
owequitit wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:
DCR wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

Indeed. However, you would still have some equity that would be growing with each payment made with the financing and this would have to be taken into consideration. To your point, I lost out on some gains paying cash. I roll like that.


You can also have equity in a lease.



No you cannot because a lease agreement is a rental agreement. If you are suggesting buying it out, that is a different discussion because at that point it ceases being a lease.



You, again, are factually incorrect.

A lease is not strictly the same as renting. That is a fallacy pushed by people who either don't understand it, or got burned by it because they didn't know what they were doing.

It is a fixed agreement wherein you pay X amount in payments on a car that cost Y at the beginning and are left with an agreed upon residual Z when you are done. If the actual value of the car is more than the contractual residual, then you do, in fact, have "equity" in the car in that you can use that additional value in any way you see fit, as you BOUGHT that equity by paying down to the residual.

That was actually the singular factor that kept me from ever being upside down on my 2009 Si when I bought it off lease because Honda had nothing I wanted. The car was worth about $6K more than the residual at the end of the lease, but I only had to pay the residual for it. That means that $6K was mine the same way it would have been had I purchased the car outright.

Further, if I had been in a position where the car was worth LESS than the residual, that would have been Honda's problem and not mine (assuming it wasn't because I trashed the car, which leases also include some protections from). Had the car been purchased in this case, that negative equity is the owner's problem. In fact, this is the very reason that leasing makes sense for a lot of people because cars always depreciate, which means you always paid more than it was worth. At the end of a lease, I have a residual which I can pay and own the car (whether the car is worth more or less) or I can walk away from it if it isn't advantageous for me.

Further, on a lease, the lessee is usually not more than 3 years away from a new car, which allows for more flexibility, better maintenance coverage, etc.

Personally, I see CPO as the best of both worlds if you don't fit the profile of a lease.





No, a lease agreement is a rental agreement.

You only have 'equity' in the lease if you buy out the residual and get lucky enough that the car you have is popular, there are decent market prices, or the residual was too low on the lease. Otherwise you walk away at the end of the term and close the operating lease.

But this isn't lease v.s. financing. I am arguing against long term leasing v.s. financing as I said much earlier on. In your example, after say 3 years you have only paid for the depreciation and can walk away. True. However, you will need another car and if you lease for another 3 years and then walk away you have now paid 6 years of depreciation with no equity. If you had financed the original car over say 6 years, you not only would have paid for the depreciation but you would have equity in the asset. From an enthusiast perspective, this is fine. From a financial perspective, it is somewhat obtuse.

In addition, I could argue that the vast majority of people who lease do so because the payments are lower and they can get into a car that they normally could not afford. Given that, most people who lease never buy out the residual because they cannot afford it and would have to finance the residual anyway. So they lease again. And piss in the wind.

; )



www.leaseguide.com

You sir, are factually incorrect.

In a rental agreement, I pay a fixed amount per period of time and then walk away empty handed with nothing. Not the same as a lease (potentially) or a loan and we both know it.

According to your definition, someone who has a house but pays it off or sells the house before the loan is mature is also "renting" and we both know that is patently false because the pre-negotiated terms make that untrue. Just like a car loan and just like a lease. This is especially true of closed end leases. Also by your definition, the leases Sears has on property that have slowly been auctioned off over the last 10 years have no value, even though their market value in the 10's of billions factually disagrees with you.

As for auto leasing, the main difference is that it is a depreciating asset (which also applies to financing), so you ALWAYS end up behind where you started financially because the object is ALWAYS worth less than you paid. And you are correct. When I lease a new car, I am paying depreciation over 6 years. But I am also never out of warranty (even big routine maintenances can exceed $1000 on your average Honda these days), and the same car doesn't just magically depreciate down to zero. Every time I reset the payments, I also reset the value of the vehicle I am driving. As for total cost of ownership, go spend some time digging around on a place like Truecar where they will breakdown the expected costs of ownership over 5 years and you will see that even Honda's see a big increase in maintenance costs around the 5 year mark. From 3-10 years, you are going to pay thousands in maintenance and upkeep (from tire replacement to other consumables) that won't apply to your average lease. I suspect with the latest "mighty might" turbo Hondas, maintenance will even be a little bit more.

The problem with this conversation is that you aren't really considering the total cost of ownership. You are fixated solely on having to give the car back and not on the costs associated with keeping it.

That said, we have leased about a dozen Honda products and the ONLY one that didn't have any equity in it at the end of the lease term (all 36 months except 1) was our 2006 Accord and that was based solely on the soft market in 2009 when everything was having trouble. Even still, the car was only worth about $300 less than the residual at trade in, so we walked away and started from scratch. Time permitting, we could have sold it private party and probably had a couple grand. Every other Honda we have traded in had around $1000-1500 of equity in the lease, which essentially paid for TTL on the new car. The Si was also an outlier because I got a good deal on it in 2009 (also due to the soft market) and it held its value unlike any car I have ever seen due to it being the last high revving Honda.

As an example, my parents paid cash for their 2013 Accord because they planned on keeping it long term and didn't want a payment as they prepare for retirement. The break-even on that just from a payments perspective is about 10 years and that doesn't include maintenance on the car, which has already made it substantially longer. Before long, it is going to need a timing belt and other high mileage service, which will tip the balance a little further.

Leasing isn't nearly as expensive as you think it is if you actually compute the total system costs, which I suspect you are not doing.



An auto lease is an operating lease, not a capital lease. Once you make the lease payments you do not own the car. The only way to own the car is to payout an assumed market value (residual).

So no, I am absolutely not incorrect. You are renting the car for the term of the lease.

And no, having a mortgage is not the same thing. You are not renting a house in this case because you technically own the house. The lender has simply put a security charge against your house in exchange for funding to purchase the asset. If you sell it before you pay off the loan you may have equity (in most cases real estate appreciates over time; cars don't). With a car lease you do NOT have title to that asset. The leasor has ownership.

This is a case of perhaps you searching the internet for an answer. Unfortunately, both from a legal perspective and a finance perspective you are wrong.

If you chose to lease, then great. But as a long term proposition, leasing is still pissing away more money than financing / owning.



You missed the simple analogies. I am aware of the techical differences. But that doesn't change the fact that your statements have been patently false.

So let's simplify down even more.

Putting ANY money on a car is "pissing into the wind" because you lose money when leasing and financing. But like electronic consumables it is a necessary cost of doing business.

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 09:55
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We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.


Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 10:03
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gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats! Sounds like itís exactly what you want.

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 10:21
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Fitdad wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats! Sounds like itís exactly what you want.


Yes but it's bittersweet like I said. Performance Center Delivery was actually her suggestion, don't have to twist my arm!

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 10:38
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gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats man the X5 is a very nice ride! What put it over the edge for you among the other lux utes in the class? I've tried an X6 and that drove pretty nicely. Can't remember what year it was though. Have fun with it.


Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 10:45
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Well - Honda got your money exclusively for 14 years. Thatís a good run.

You just found something else that you like more. The timing of the MDX FMC just didnít work for your life timing. Bound to happen eventually over 2 decades.

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 11:05
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KaySee wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats man the X5 is a very nice ride! What put it over the edge for you among the other lux utes in the class? I've tried an X6 and that drove pretty nicely. Can't remember what year it was though. Have fun with it.



It's almost hard to explain just how nice this new model is to experience in person, both in terms of just being in it and driving it. The exterior doesn't do much for me. My wife fell in love with the pickup it has and the cool tech./luxury features.
2018 X5: Nice enough but nothing really special about it
Q7: Drove big, it didn't wow her like she thought it would with the digital cockpit.
RDX: Very nice but it can't tow and although she liked it she pronounced that I would be unhappy having to pick and drive the vehicle that can tow on a daily basis and didn't want to take that chance
GLE: Interior looked like a minivan, infotainment looked and functioned like it was 10 years old
X3 M40i: Very nice, fast, just didn't have the wow factor the X5's interior/features did
Atlas: Disappointing powertrain, infotainment not as easy to use as it should be
Velar: Super stylish but it felt like a heavy tank and the touchscreens are a liability not an asset when it comes time to make adjustments while driving.

We both love the MDX and what a good car it has been over the last 7 years and I'm confident that if Acura was earlier with the new model (using the RDX interior) we'd be in one. The current model's interior is kind of dated IMO (touchscreen) and it reminded us both a bit too much of our TLX experience. We'll be back though.



gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 11:14
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Fitdad wrote:
Well - Honda got your money exclusively for 14 years. Thatís a good run.

You just found something else that you like more. The timing of the MDX FMC just didnít work for your life timing. Bound to happen eventually over 2 decades.


That's with at least one of us owning one. The stretch is actually longer. I was exclusively H/A from 2000-2016 (many cars) and my wife was in them from 2006-2019.

ME:
'97 Civic (where my love started)
'02 RSX 5MT
'04 RSX Type-S
'05 Civic 5MT (a low point)
'05 Accord 5MT
'06 Civic Si
'07 Accord V6 6MT
'06 S2000
'10 Accord 5MT (a low point)
'12 TSX
'14 TLX (a low point)

HER:
'97 Integra
'07 Accord
'10 CR-V
'11 MDX

(the model years v. ownership years may make look some of these look weird)


superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 11:32
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gofast182 wrote:
Fitdad wrote:
Well - Honda got your money exclusively for 14 years. Thatís a good run.

You just found something else that you like more. The timing of the MDX FMC just didnít work for your life timing. Bound to happen eventually over 2 decades.


That's with at least one of us owning one. The stretch is actually longer. I was exclusively H/A from 2000-2016 (many cars) and my wife was in them from 2006-2019.

ME:
'97 Civic (where my love started)
'02 RSX 5MT
'04 RSX Type-S
'05 Civic 5MT (a low point)
'05 Accord 5MT
'06 Civic Si
'07 Accord V6 6MT
'06 S2000
'10 Accord 5MT (a low point)
'12 TSX
'14 TLX (a low point)

HER:
'97 Integra
'07 Accord
'10 CR-V
'11 MDX

(the model years v. ownership years may make look some of these look weird)



Congrats on your new BMW.

You still have the S2000?

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 11:45
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gofast182 wrote:
Fitdad wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats! Sounds like itís exactly what you want.


Yes but it's bittersweet like I said. Performance Center Delivery was actually her suggestion, don't have to twist my arm!



I forgot about that, the X5 is made in NC. It would have been nice if you had chosen one of the European made models, so you could throw in a free Euro vacation as well, but all of BMW's SUVs are actually made in the USA. The PCD option sounds like a good alternative though. Congratulations on the purchase.

Hondu
Profile for Hondu
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 12:16
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CarPhreakD wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
Fitdad wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats! Sounds like itís exactly what you want.


Yes but it's bittersweet like I said. Performance Center Delivery was actually her suggestion, don't have to twist my arm!



I forgot about that, the X5 is made in NC. It would have been nice if you had chosen one of the European made models, so you could throw in a free Euro vacation as well, but all of BMW's SUVs are actually made in the USA. The PCD option sounds like a good alternative though. Congratulations on the purchase.



Slight correction, they are made in SC (Greenville-Spartanburg area)

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-14-2019 12:50
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superchg2 wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
Fitdad wrote:
Well - Honda got your money exclusively for 14 years. Thatís a good run.

You just found something else that you like more. The timing of the MDX FMC just didnít work for your life timing. Bound to happen eventually over 2 decades.


That's with at least one of us owning one. The stretch is actually longer. I was exclusively H/A from 2000-2016 (many cars) and my wife was in them from 2006-2019.

ME:
'97 Civic (where my love started)
'02 RSX 5MT
'04 RSX Type-S
'05 Civic 5MT (a low point)
'05 Accord 5MT
'06 Civic Si
'07 Accord V6 6MT
'06 S2000
'10 Accord 5MT (a low point)
'12 TSX
'14 TLX (a low point)

HER:
'97 Integra
'07 Accord
'10 CR-V
'11 MDX

(the model years v. ownership years may make look some of these look weird)



Congrats on your new BMW.

You still have the S2000?


Absolutely. That's why all the talk of tow capacity, I trailer it to the track.

cksi1372
Profile for cksi1372
Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-15-2019 23:45
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gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats! Sounds like a pretty good discount for a new model. Were you existing BMWCCA member or do new 3 year membership to get discount immediately? I let mine lapse but miss Roundel as well as this potential discount perk. Enjoy PCD, should be fun.

gofast182
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Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 08:14
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cksi1372 wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
We pulled the trigger on the X5; she is completely enamored with the car and I understand why. We placed a custom order and will be doing Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg. Between dealer discount and rebates we ended up getting $9,000 off (plus a $1,000 BMWCCA rebate after purchase) and they're giving us exactly what I want for the MDX. I'm sad that at least one of us won't have a H/A as a daily, first time in 14 years. We'll see what happens with me in the fall when my lease is up as I remain open to the brand I still love as long as they can produce the right product, they already have a couple candidates.




Congrats! Sounds like a pretty good discount for a new model. Were you existing BMWCCA member or do new 3 year membership to get discount immediately? I let mine lapse but miss Roundel as well as this potential discount perk. Enjoy PCD, should be fun.


Yeah we were satisfied, it will be nearly $10k at the end of the day plus a free set of all weather mats. If you sign up as a new member for 3 years ($150) you get a $1,000 rebate after delivery. You can add associate members and by virtue of their membership they/you can get $1,000 off of another. I'm excited for PCD but surprisingly my wife is more excited, maybe because it's for her.

bigblue
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Re: Drove a VW Atlas and the new BMW X5...    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 10:46
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Ultimate grille machines :

None
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BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 10:54
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bigblue wrote:
Ultimate grille machines :



It's like BMW is trying to out ugly Lexus.

NealX
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 12:06
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None
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 12:56
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The George Foreman.
JeffX
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 13:27
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NealX wrote:



styled for CHI NA (say it in your Trump voice)

Mikeydred
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 13:40
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None wrote:
bigblue wrote:
Ultimate grille machines :



It's like BMW is trying to out ugly Lexus.


Congrats gofast!
Whats amazing is other than the proportions how much the RLX lools like the 7 series, even the updated tail lights are similar to 7 series. I have no problem with these new BMW grills atleast they don't look cheap, its the detailing on the lower fascia as BMW of old didnt have to resort to this tackiness. The germans seem to have gotten stagnant on design same with Audi although they typically play it safe. Now would be a good time for Acura to come out with some attrative designs to give people other options.

gofast182
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 13:58
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Mikeydred wrote:
None wrote:
bigblue wrote:
Ultimate grille machines :



It's like BMW is trying to out ugly Lexus.


Congrats gofast!
Whats amazing is other than the proportions how much the RLX lools like the 7 series, even the updated tail lights are similar to 7 series. I have no problem with these new BMW grills atleast they don't look cheap, its the detailing on the lower fascia as BMW of old didnt have to resort to this tackiness. The germans seem to have gotten stagnant on design same with Audi although they typically play it safe. Now would be a good time for Acura to come out with some attrative designs to give people other options.


Thank you.
I happen to think the updated RLX looks pretty nice despite some fundamental issues with the proportions. While I haven't seen the X7 or 7 series yet to know if the proportion is right in real life, the grilles do look a bit big in the pics, with that said the enlarged grille on the X5 (it's not as big as the X7's) looks very well proportioned in person. Either way, you're right about this: at least it doesn't look cheap.

rev2damoon
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 14:03
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HA! I think I see what Acura's strategy is now. Hold back on releasing info on next gen stuff so that the microscope gets focused elsewhere. With the noise and focus of fans elsewhere, be 'less ugly' than the "beak generation" and the new designs will seem light years better...even if they really aren't. 😏

Ya, these BMW grilles might be gaudy, but I'll take em over the cheap-looking, 'quantum continuum', starburst nonsense Marek and Co came up with.😁

garoto
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 15:13
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They look good to me actually. Like the old Benz. I like BMWs take on it. Nothing can out ugly Lexus or Toyota. Those dudes are fucking insane.
JeffX
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Re: BMW trying to out ugly Lexus    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-16-2019 15:22
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garoto wrote:
They look good to me actually. Like the old Benz. I like BMWs take on it. Nothing can out ugly Lexus or Toyota. Those dudes are fucking insane.



yeah I don't think it's anywhere approaching the Toyota/Lexus standard of fug. These BMWs are not at all offensive, in fact.

I think the supermultispoke wheels on the 2 cars in this photo sort of exaggerate the effect of the waterfall grille, otherwise they're just sort of there.


 
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