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TOV Forums > Today's Reading Links > > Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "

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Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
" The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2018 13:36
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I hope they bring 3 pedals back too.

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/12/acura-wont-launch-new-crossovers-will-focus-fixing-sedans/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1544548122

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2018 15:39
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- A thorough, well thought out and streamlined approach to their portfolio is a necessity and it seems like thatís the direction theyíre headed.
- Japan needs to give AHM more or total control of the Acura brand as Japan is the reason for Acuraís issues.
- A-Spec and Type-S trims needs to be available on ALL Acura mainstream models!
- ILX, TLX and RDX should have traditional Type-S drivetrains and upgrades focusing on the 2.0t, 3.0t and standard SH-AWD.
- RLX and MDX should have Type-S versions as well but Iím thinking they should use the 3.0t with a more powerful version of the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system.
- After they get all models revamped, introduce a CLX coupe, maybe another ZDX and a RLX 4 door coupe ala Audi A/S7 as niche models are important.
- Make a damn CDX already! Yes, I know the RDX has a good base price but this segment is HOT, very profitable and could add more volume to the brand of which it needs.

typer_801
Profile for typer_801
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2018 16:31
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Would be easier to believe when good sports sedans start filling the showroom again. I fear we'll get something closer to a Lexus ES350 F-Sport (as an equivalent of Acura's A-Spec) rather than something truly sporting (i.e. Alfa Romeo Giulia).

We'll see.....

None
Profile for None
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2018 19:04
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Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.
Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2018 19:23
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typer_801 wrote:
Would be easier to believe when good sports sedans start filling the showroom again. I fear we'll get something closer to a Lexus ES350 F-Sport (as an equivalent of Acura's A-Spec) rather than something truly sporting (i.e. Alfa Romeo Giulia).

We'll see.....



The current TLX A-Spec is much sportier vs the ES. The next gen TLX will move up in its segment. For example, the current TLX 2.4/3.5 compete with the BMW 320i/330i. The next gen will compete more the with BMW 330/M340i as the base TLX will get the 272hp 2.0t from the RDX and of course to the Type-S will get the 3.0t.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 05:57
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Indeed - a foot-operated park brake seems more fail-safe than electrickery.

MSZ
Profile for MSZ
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 06:58
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With the new M340i and C43 getting close to the 400hp mark, I just don't see how the Type-S is going to compete with those unless it's going to be 15k cheaper.
CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 09:44
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Civicb18 wrote:
- A thorough, well thought out and streamlined approach to their portfolio is a necessity and it seems like thatís the direction theyíre headed.
- Japan needs to give AHM more or total control of the Acura brand as Japan is the reason for Acuraís issues.
- A-Spec and Type-S trims needs to be available on ALL Acura mainstream models!
- ILX, TLX and RDX should have traditional Type-S drivetrains and upgrades focusing on the 2.0t, 3.0t and standard SH-AWD.
- RLX and MDX should have Type-S versions as well but Iím thinking they should use the 3.0t with a more powerful version of the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system.
- After they get all models revamped, introduce a CLX coupe, maybe another ZDX and a RLX 4 door coupe ala Audi A/S7 as niche models are important.
- Make a damn CDX already! Yes, I know the RDX has a good base price but this segment is HOT, very profitable and could add more volume to the brand of which it needs.



Or Acura could launch both a sedan and a hatch version of the ILX ala the Civic, thus offering a sportier alternative to all those small CUVs. In some respects a four-door hatch, namely a five-door, makes more sense than a small, likely cramped CUV. For that matter, a three-door named Integra - RSX if they must - would look good in the Acura range.

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 10:43
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None wrote:
Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.


Part of my reason for wanting to drop the ILX is that it limits Acuraís ability to have models like this. The TLX should be the compact option and thatís it. If the RDX can pull people up to $38,000 then why the hell canít the TLX pull buyers up to $33,000? Or $36,000?

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 10:51
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CarmB wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
- A thorough, well thought out and streamlined approach to their portfolio is a necessity and it seems like thatís the direction theyíre headed.
- Japan needs to give AHM more or total control of the Acura brand as Japan is the reason for Acuraís issues.
- A-Spec and Type-S trims needs to be available on ALL Acura mainstream models!
- ILX, TLX and RDX should have traditional Type-S drivetrains and upgrades focusing on the 2.0t, 3.0t and standard SH-AWD.
- RLX and MDX should have Type-S versions as well but Iím thinking they should use the 3.0t with a more powerful version of the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system.
- After they get all models revamped, introduce a CLX coupe, maybe another ZDX and a RLX 4 door coupe ala Audi A/S7 as niche models are important.



Or Acura could launch both a sedan and a hatch version of the ILX ala the Civic, thus offering a sportier alternative to all those small CUVs. In some respects a four-door hatch, namely a five-door, makes more sense than a small, likely cramped CUV. For that matter, a three-door named Integra - RSX if they must - would look good in the Acura range.



What I would like to see Acura attack the CUV segment with a performance version of a TLX Sport Wagon. I would like to see it standard with some form of AWD, the 2.0T and a 10-speed automatic. I think you could probably also give it slightly more ground clearance.

Is there a market for that? I think there is. My wife and I are empty nesters and while we loved our MDX, we got tired of it's bulk and mass. So we downsized to a TSX Sport Wagon and have not looked back. It's going on seven years old, and you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands--unless there were a TLX Sport Wagon (or hatch) we could move to.


KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 10:58
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None wrote:
Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.


Yes to this and Hondatalover saying "I hope they bring 3 pedals back too."

You make a manual hatchback/sportback versions of the ILX and/or the TLX you get driving enthusiasts/press cred with great practicality bonuses in one swoop. Instead of flocking to SUVs the enthusiast who enjoys manual can shuttle some extra cargo in a five door compact or midsize car without massive sacrifices of transmission choice or utility.

Make the manual versions lower volume like they seem to be doing for the Accord 2.0T 6MT. I'm good to wait a month or three to get a car like this while the automatic ones sell as as fast as they're ordered. Acura, you have the best manuals do not deny us the pleasure! We won't be driving ourselves much longer!!

None
Profile for None
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 11:48
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KaySee wrote:
None wrote:
Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.


Yes to this and Hondatalover saying "I hope they bring 3 pedals back too."

You make a manual hatchback/sportback versions of the ILX and/or the TLX you get driving enthusiasts/press cred with great practicality bonuses in one swoop. Instead of flocking to SUVs the enthusiast who enjoys manual can shuttle some extra cargo in a five door compact or midsize car without massive sacrifices of transmission choice or utility.

Make the manual versions lower volume like they seem to be doing for the Accord 2.0T 6MT. I'm good to wait a month or three to get a car like this while the automatic ones sell as as fast as they're ordered. Acura, you have the best manuals do not deny us the pleasure! We won't be driving ourselves much longer!!



It would be so easy for Acura. Take the Civic Type R, get rid of the fast and furious aftermarket looking kit, sell as the Integra Type R.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 11:55
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None wrote:
KaySee wrote:
None wrote:
Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.


Yes to this and Hondatalover saying "I hope they bring 3 pedals back too."

You make a manual hatchback/sportback versions of the ILX and/or the TLX you get driving enthusiasts/press cred with great practicality bonuses in one swoop. Instead of flocking to SUVs the enthusiast who enjoys manual can shuttle some extra cargo in a five door compact or midsize car without massive sacrifices of transmission choice or utility.

Make the manual versions lower volume like they seem to be doing for the Accord 2.0T 6MT. I'm good to wait a month or three to get a car like this while the automatic ones sell as as fast as they're ordered. Acura, you have the best manuals do not deny us the pleasure! We won't be driving ourselves much longer!!



It would be so easy for Acura. Take the Civic Type R, get rid of the fast and furious aftermarket looking kit, sell as the Integra Type R.



Seems obvious, would be akin to Nissan/Infiniti's 350Z/G35, which of course means that Acura won't do it.

Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 12:24
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Look I am a fan of sedans, but come on how is a baby Acura suv not here already? CDX or whatever they want to call it. The market is demanding SUV/CUV type of vehicle. I can just see the person checking out the RDX but thinking too big or too expensive. Or checking out the ILX/TLX and wanting more of a small crossover. It is so obvious it is not even funny.

So I guess these competitors mean nothing:
NX 5,622 +4%
GLA 2,411 +5.4%
X2 2,283
MKC 2,263 +11.1%

My guess is that Acura could easily get to 3+ thousand in CDX type sales. Acura is already pushing nearly 6000 in RDX. I would say the 1000+ sales in ILX could easily be 3000+ in a CDX-type.

Also discussed here:
https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1372544&news_item_id=1372110

B.


Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 12:41
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CarPhreakD wrote:
None wrote:
KaySee wrote:
None wrote:
Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.


Yes to this and Hondatalover saying "I hope they bring 3 pedals back too."

You make a manual hatchback/sportback versions of the ILX and/or the TLX you get driving enthusiasts/press cred with great practicality bonuses in one swoop. Instead of flocking to SUVs the enthusiast who enjoys manual can shuttle some extra cargo in a five door compact or midsize car without massive sacrifices of transmission choice or utility.

Make the manual versions lower volume like they seem to be doing for the Accord 2.0T 6MT. I'm good to wait a month or three to get a car like this while the automatic ones sell as as fast as they're ordered. Acura, you have the best manuals do not deny us the pleasure! We won't be driving ourselves much longer!!



It would be so easy for Acura. Take the Civic Type R, get rid of the fast and furious aftermarket looking kit, sell as the Integra Type R.



Seems obvious, would be akin to Nissan/Infiniti's 350Z/G35, which of course means that Acura won't do it.



So Honda+ is OK now?

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 12:49
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Sedans are out because of their inherent utility problems, but hatchbacks and wagons can be saved, so there is a way to reconcile both opinions here.

Look at the Mercedes GLA, Hyundai Niro, or Toyota C-HR, etc., which are small hatchbacks, sold as crossovers. Apparently people will buy anything called an SUV/CUV, whether or not it is actually one. The important thing here is the presence of a hatch and some design optics, not ground clearance or even AWD.

Honda/Acura can have a sporty hatch or wagon marketed as a CUV (maybe raise it 2 cm and add some cladding here and there). Enthusiasts will buy it because of it true nature (utility, good handling, MT?, etc.), and the masses will buy it because it is _called_ a CUV.


99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 14:06
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But when? Are we going to see an early 2020 model that hits the lots in March/April?

CanTeX
Profile for CanTeX
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 15:40
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Brutus wrote:
Look I am a fan of sedans, but come on how is a baby Acura suv not here already? CDX or whatever they want to call it. The market is demanding SUV/CUV type of vehicle. I can just see the person checking out the RDX but thinking too big or too expensive. Or checking out the ILX/TLX and wanting more of a small crossover. It is so obvious it is not even funny.

So I guess these competitors mean nothing:
NX 5,622 +4%
GLA 2,411 +5.4%
X2 2,283
MKC 2,263 +11.1%

My guess is that Acura could easily get to 3+ thousand in CDX type sales. Acura is already pushing nearly 6000 in RDX. I would say the 1000+ sales in ILX could easily be 3000+ in a CDX-type.

Also discussed here:
https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1372544&news_item_id=1372110

B.



I donít trust The Donald on tariffs on Chinese goods. Acura could bring in the CDX from China and then get slammed with big $$$ tariffs. Like Ford announced the Focus CUV, whatever itís called, then backed off when the trade business came up. Canít blame them. So Iíd be quite surprised to see the CDX, unless AHM can figure a way to downsize an existing crossover (CR-V, not the HR-V hopefully.) on the cheap.

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2018 21:39
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CanTeX wrote:
Brutus wrote:
Look I am a fan of sedans, but come on how is a baby Acura suv not here already? CDX or whatever they want to call it. The market is demanding SUV/CUV type of vehicle. I can just see the person checking out the RDX but thinking too big or too expensive. Or checking out the ILX/TLX and wanting more of a small crossover. It is so obvious it is not even funny.

So I guess these competitors mean nothing:
NX 5,622 +4%
GLA 2,411 +5.4%
X2 2,283
MKC 2,263 +11.1%

My guess is that Acura could easily get to 3+ thousand in CDX type sales. Acura is already pushing nearly 6000 in RDX. I would say the 1000+ sales in ILX could easily be 3000+ in a CDX-type.

Also discussed here:
https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1372544&news_item_id=1372110

B.



I donít trust The Donald on tariffs on Chinese goods. Acura could bring in the CDX from China and then get slammed with big $$$ tariffs. Like Ford announced the Focus CUV, whatever itís called, then backed off when the trade business came up. Canít blame them. So Iíd be quite surprised to see the CDX, unless AHM can figure a way to downsize an existing crossover (CR-V, not the HR-V hopefully.) on the cheap.



If itís for Acura, wouldnít the logical move be to downsize the RDX? If itís about cost, drop a 1.5T into the HR-V and offer it as a performance version. If, on the other hand, you want to do a CUV for Acura, do it right. Donít modify the HR-V to sell it as an Acura. Itís moves like that over the years that have made it harder for Acura to be taken seriously as a brand.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 00:20
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Brutus wrote:
Look I am a fan of sedans, but come on how is a baby Acura suv not here already? CDX or whatever they want to call it. The market is demanding SUV/CUV type of vehicle. I can just see the person checking out the RDX but thinking too big or too expensive. Or checking out the ILX/TLX and wanting more of a small crossover. It is so obvious it is not even funny.

So I guess these competitors mean nothing:
NX 5,622 +4%
GLA 2,411 +5.4%
X2 2,283
MKC 2,263 +11.1%

My guess is that Acura could easily get to 3+ thousand in CDX type sales. Acura is already pushing nearly 6000 in RDX. I would say the 1000+ sales in ILX could easily be 3000+ in a CDX-type.

Also discussed here:
https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1372544&news_item_id=1372110

B.




To me that sounds terrible on so many levels, but I do agree with you that that seems to be what the market dictates. Clearly the market doesn't dictate what is enjoyable for a good chunk of enthusiasts or we'd definitely have a different landscape of vehicles on the road today.

So what's your take on a car Acura could make that would actually be good? Definitely another CUV in the world is the smart choice for their bottom line. But what if they made something that wasn't boring, or following the crowd like another CUV? What would your ideal car from them be? If you actually want to drive a CUV then forget I asked. I'm liking some of the other suggestions I'm seeing here so if you have one other than a smaller rdx that would be cool to hear. Would you want a hatch? Wagon? Manual? Have some fun beyond NX sales figures. Again, if CUVs are fun too you please disregard, we have different priorities in vehicles. My wife would probably like me to think more like you to be honest since we have two kids. But, I stubbornly hold driving engagement/enjoyment higher than utility. To each their own.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 10:28
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KaySee wrote:
Brutus wrote:
Look I am a fan of sedans, but come on how is a baby Acura suv not here already? CDX or whatever they want to call it. The market is demanding SUV/CUV type of vehicle. I can just see the person checking out the RDX but thinking too big or too expensive. Or checking out the ILX/TLX and wanting more of a small crossover. It is so obvious it is not even funny.

So I guess these competitors mean nothing:
NX 5,622 +4%
GLA 2,411 +5.4%
X2 2,283
MKC 2,263 +11.1%

My guess is that Acura could easily get to 3+ thousand in CDX type sales. Acura is already pushing nearly 6000 in RDX. I would say the 1000+ sales in ILX could easily be 3000+ in a CDX-type.

Also discussed here:
https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1372544&news_item_id=1372110

B.




To me that sounds terrible on so many levels, but I do agree with you that that seems to be what the market dictates. Clearly the market doesn't dictate what is enjoyable for a good chunk of enthusiasts or we'd definitely have a different landscape of vehicles on the road today.

So what's your take on a car Acura could make that would actually be good? Definitely another CUV in the world is the smart choice for their bottom line. But what if they made something that wasn't boring, or following the crowd like another CUV? What would your ideal car from them be? If you actually want to drive a CUV then forget I asked. I'm liking some of the other suggestions I'm seeing here so if you have one other than a smaller rdx that would be cool to hear. Would you want a hatch? Wagon? Manual? Have some fun beyond NX sales figures. Again, if CUVs are fun too you please disregard, we have different priorities in vehicles. My wife would probably like me to think more like you to be honest since we have two kids. But, I stubbornly hold driving engagement/enjoyment higher than utility. To each their own.



I think the point is that there is a lot of low hanging fruit that Acura can exploit for easy profits, Brutus isn't making a commentary on "fun" vehicles that Acura can potentially make. On that note he is absolutely correct- there's an obvious hole for a subcompact SUV that Acura can exploit for profit, but they haven't done so. I feel like this slow movement should have cost a product planner their job.

As far as "good" vehicles Acura can make, that's clearly subjective. I personally have zero interest in Acura's sedans; there are a million good choices available out there and Acura's sedans aren't exactly sporting, and I don't expect them to do anything that isn't boring. A sportback non-stupid looking Type-R would be a dream, but won't solve Acura's sales issues and is too obvious for them to do.

Fitdad wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
None wrote:
KaySee wrote:
None wrote:
Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.


Yes to this and Hondatalover saying "I hope they bring 3 pedals back too."

You make a manual hatchback/sportback versions of the ILX and/or the TLX you get driving enthusiasts/press cred with great practicality bonuses in one swoop. Instead of flocking to SUVs the enthusiast who enjoys manual can shuttle some extra cargo in a five door compact or midsize car without massive sacrifices of transmission choice or utility.

Make the manual versions lower volume like they seem to be doing for the Accord 2.0T 6MT. I'm good to wait a month or three to get a car like this while the automatic ones sell as as fast as they're ordered. Acura, you have the best manuals do not deny us the pleasure! We won't be driving ourselves much longer!!



It would be so easy for Acura. Take the Civic Type R, get rid of the fast and furious aftermarket looking kit, sell as the Integra Type R.



Seems obvious, would be akin to Nissan/Infiniti's 350Z/G35, which of course means that Acura won't do it.



So Honda+ is OK now?



Do I look like LexusGS to you? I was never really into the idea of "Tier 1" Acura VEE ATE WEAR WEEL DRAIV. I'm making the point that it's yet another piece of low hanging fruit that Acura can exploit, but haven't done so.

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 11:45
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CarPhreakD wrote:
I think the point is that there is a lot of low hanging fruit that Acura can exploit for easy profits, Brutus isn't making a commentary on "fun" vehicles that Acura can potentially make. On that note he is absolutely correct- there's an obvious hole for a subcompact SUV that Acura can exploit for profit, but they haven't done so. I feel like this slow movement should have cost a product planner their job.

As far as "good" vehicles Acura can make, that's clearly subjective. I personally have zero interest in Acura's sedans; there are a million good choices available out there and Acura's sedans aren't exactly sporting, and I don't expect them to do anything that isn't boring. A sportback non-stupid looking Type-R would be a dream, but won't solve Acura's sales issues and is too obvious for them to do.

Fitdad wrote:
So Honda+ is OK now?


Do I look like LexusGS to you? I was never really into the idea of "Tier 1" Acura VEE ATE WEAR WEEL DRAIV. I'm making the point that it's yet another piece of low hanging fruit that Acura can exploit, but haven't done so.



No I don't - and my comment came off more...dickish than I had intended. I appreciate what you bring to the forums CarphreakD - I just...

I don't know what Acura is (when it comes to sedans/performance cars) and I don't know how an AWD CTR as defined (non-stupid looking CTR (which is perfect)) makes things any clearer. There is no doubt it would be an amazing vehicle and it is obvious low-hanging fruit - I've said as much before.

But the RDX shows that whatever formula Acura is now working with can move metal and I think it will translate pretty well to their sedans. We can talk about the dubiousness of the "exclusive" platform - but I think it's pretty clear that the RDX isn't just a CR-V with a V6/2.0t. And you say it yourself: a hatch Acura CTR won't solve their non-SUV sales issues. They need to take a bigger swing and really shift some paradigms.

In other words whatever performance identity Acura has in the future will/should be defined by the turbo-6. The Turbo-4 is going to be the workhorse and the sales leader - but Acura has to find a way to turn the 3.0T Type-S models into really special vehicles.

I remember right around the time Ikeda took over (maybe before or after, can't remember) Acura switched advertising agencies and when they brought new ones in to give their pitch for the job, the new ad agencies told Acura that people didn't have a negative or positive opinion of them in general...instead they had NO opinion. Acura had no identity.

I think that taking a CTR and turning it into an Acura, while a great and obvious idea, only makes that non-identity more of a problem (same with bringing over the Chinese built CDX). Yes Acura has holes in the lineup, yes the ILX is garbage - but how they execute their vehicles in the future should be about what Acura wants to do than what Honda has already done.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 11:46
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CarPhreakD wrote:
KaySee wrote:
Brutus wrote:
Look I am a fan of sedans, but come on how is a baby Acura suv not here already? CDX or whatever they want to call it. The market is demanding SUV/CUV type of vehicle. I can just see the person checking out the RDX but thinking too big or too expensive. Or checking out the ILX/TLX and wanting more of a small crossover. It is so obvious it is not even funny.

So I guess these competitors mean nothing:
NX 5,622 +4%
GLA 2,411 +5.4%
X2 2,283
MKC 2,263 +11.1%

My guess is that Acura could easily get to 3+ thousand in CDX type sales. Acura is already pushing nearly 6000 in RDX. I would say the 1000+ sales in ILX could easily be 3000+ in a CDX-type.

Also discussed here:
https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1372544&news_item_id=1372110

B.




To me that sounds terrible on so many levels, but I do agree with you that that seems to be what the market dictates. Clearly the market doesn't dictate what is enjoyable for a good chunk of enthusiasts or we'd definitely have a different landscape of vehicles on the road today.

So what's your take on a car Acura could make that would actually be good? Definitely another CUV in the world is the smart choice for their bottom line. But what if they made something that wasn't boring, or following the crowd like another CUV? What would your ideal car from them be? If you actually want to drive a CUV then forget I asked. I'm liking some of the other suggestions I'm seeing here so if you have one other than a smaller rdx that would be cool to hear. Would you want a hatch? Wagon? Manual? Have some fun beyond NX sales figures. Again, if CUVs are fun too you please disregard, we have different priorities in vehicles. My wife would probably like me to think more like you to be honest since we have two kids. But, I stubbornly hold driving engagement/enjoyment higher than utility. To each their own.



I think the point is that there is a lot of low hanging fruit that Acura can exploit for easy profits, Brutus isn't making a commentary on "fun" vehicles that Acura can potentially make. On that note he is absolutely correct- there's an obvious hole for a subcompact SUV that Acura can exploit for profit, but they haven't done so. I feel like this slow movement should have cost a product planner their job.

As far as "good" vehicles Acura can make, that's clearly subjective. I personally have zero interest in Acura's sedans; there are a million good choices available out there and Acura's sedans aren't exactly sporting, and I don't expect them to do anything that isn't boring. A sportback non-stupid looking Type-R would be a dream, but won't solve Acura's sales issues and is too obvious for them to do.



That's cool. I also agreed with Brutus that a CUV makes sense in a lot of ways. That was a fair point to make (which, again, I agreed with) but I was asking about his ideas for cars that are fun and driver oriented as opposed to dealing with another CUV on the road. I'm sure he has his own wishlist of a car beyond the yawnfest of fruits to exploit that are possible. That's from my perspective clearly, but I'm not sure if there is a driving enthusiast who could drive the Type R and the RDX back to back and not have way more fun driving the Type R. That is purely from a driving enjoyment and engagement perspective. If there are people out there who would prefer the RDX they are probably looking for things other than pure driver involvement and joy. Fine for them, but I'm not interested. When I say good I'm talking in terms of my criteria.

I would take an Accord Sport 6MT 2.0 over any of acuras current sedans right now. I'm also not to interested in their current sedan products. If I had to sacrifice manual and the fun of a sport oriented car I'd may as well settle for an RDX so I can at least get the utility out of it.

Aside from the stuff you repeated from Brutus that I already acknowledged, the slight detail you provided about a sportback Type R based car looks to be inline with other peoples thoughts as well. I don't care about sales for this specific question, but I do agree it may be to obvious for acura to do. I wonder if his ideas would be similar too. Honda has the CDX and a Type R I don't see why they can't execute on a good car for drivers and a bean counter special that can drive sales.

KaySee
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Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 11:58
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Fitdad wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
I think the point is that there is a lot of low hanging fruit that Acura can exploit for easy profits, Brutus isn't making a commentary on "fun" vehicles that Acura can potentially make. On that note he is absolutely correct- there's an obvious hole for a subcompact SUV that Acura can exploit for profit, but they haven't done so. I feel like this slow movement should have cost a product planner their job.

As far as "good" vehicles Acura can make, that's clearly subjective. I personally have zero interest in Acura's sedans; there are a million good choices available out there and Acura's sedans aren't exactly sporting, and I don't expect them to do anything that isn't boring. A sportback non-stupid looking Type-R would be a dream, but won't solve Acura's sales issues and is too obvious for them to do.

Fitdad wrote:
So Honda+ is OK now?


Do I look like LexusGS to you? I was never really into the idea of "Tier 1" Acura VEE ATE WEAR WEEL DRAIV. I'm making the point that it's yet another piece of low hanging fruit that Acura can exploit, but haven't done so.



No I don't - and my comment came off more...dickish than I had intended. I appreciate what you bring to the forums CarphreakD - I just...

I don't know what Acura is (when it comes to sedans/performance cars) and I don't know how an AWD CTR as defined (non-stupid looking CTR (which is perfect)) makes things any clearer. There is no doubt it would be an amazing vehicle and it is obvious low-hanging fruit - I've said as much before.

But the RDX shows that whatever formula Acura is now working with can move metal and I think it will translate pretty well to their sedans. We can talk about the dubiousness of the "exclusive" platform - but I think it's pretty clear that the RDX isn't just a CR-V with a V6/2.0t. And you say it yourself: a hatch Acura CTR won't solve their non-SUV sales issues. They need to take a bigger swing and really shift some paradigms.

In other words whatever performance identity Acura has in the future will/should be defined by the turbo-6. The Turbo-4 is going to be the workhorse and the sales leader - but Acura has to find a way to turn the 3.0T Type-S models into really special vehicles.

I remember right around the time Ikeda took over (maybe before or after, can't remember) Acura switched advertising agencies and when they brought new ones in to give their pitch for the job, the new ad agencies told Acura that people didn't have a negative or positive opinion of them in general...instead they had NO opinion. Acura had no identity.

I think that taking a CTR and turning it into an Acura, while a great and obvious idea, only makes that non-identity more of a problem (same with bringing over the Chinese built CDX). Yes Acura has holes in the lineup, yes the ILX is garbage - but how they execute their vehicles in the future should be about what Acura wants to do than what Honda has already done.



I think there is a way to leverage some of the lessons and R&D they've done with Honda to help make Acura's products more compelling. If your sister company has the fastest FWD car on Earth, or another region sells a market friendly ute, there are opportunities there to build from. It doesn't have to be exactly the same platform at all. But if done right, you can build up Acura to the point where tech is trickling down to Honda instead of the other way around.

CarPhreakD
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Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 12:59
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Other than 'Honda+', I don't think Acura has ever had a solid identity. To be honest, Honda+ isn't necessarily a bad thing but they've failed on that front over the last decade. Acura itself was essentially born as a marketing exercise; since then there has been further marketing rebrands for Acura so we're left with no clear company message and a forgettable vehicle lineup. So I would agree that a combo of AWD and a great V6 would help them get some semblence of an identity... And reason to buy.

I think the RDX is a huge step in the right direction. It brings in that great mix of features, content and dynamics that was similar in many ways to the 3G TL and TSX. Acura needs a product offensive and investment to keep going.

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 14:14
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I think reskinning a Civic Type R and slapping an Acura badge on it is precisely the sort of approach that has caused Acura all manner of headaches re image management. If the Type R is so awesome, overlook the questionable exterior treatment, and just get the Type R Civic. Donít wait in vain for Honda to basically sell it as an Acura with a classier exterior.
None
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Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 14:20
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CarmB wrote:
I think reskinning a Civic Type R and slapping an Acura badge on it is precisely the sort of approach that has caused Acura all manner of headaches re image management. If the Type R is so awesome, overlook the questionable exterior treatment, and just get the Type R Civic. Donít wait in vain for Honda to basically sell it as an Acura with a classier exterior.


Acura version should have SH-AWD and a DCT to distinguish from Honda Civic.

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 14:21
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None wrote:
KaySee wrote:
None wrote:
Not interested in a sedan, but I'd love to see an Acura competitor to Audi's A5 sportback and or A7.


Yes to this and Hondatalover saying "I hope they bring 3 pedals back too."

You make a manual hatchback/sportback versions of the ILX and/or the TLX you get driving enthusiasts/press cred with great practicality bonuses in one swoop. Instead of flocking to SUVs the enthusiast who enjoys manual can shuttle some extra cargo in a five door compact or midsize car without massive sacrifices of transmission choice or utility.

Make the manual versions lower volume like they seem to be doing for the Accord 2.0T 6MT. I'm good to wait a month or three to get a car like this while the automatic ones sell as as fast as they're ordered. Acura, you have the best manuals do not deny us the pleasure! We won't be driving ourselves much longer!!



It would be so easy for Acura. Take the Civic Type R, get rid of the fast and furious aftermarket looking kit, sell as the Integra Type R.



No more rebadging Hondaís as Acuraís. The ILX actually has some potential. Not the current car but the next gen as many components are already or will be developed by the time the next ILX debuts.

Acura should use a smaller variation of the upcoming Acura sedan platform which isnít Honda based and build upon that. 2.0tís, SH-AWD, better materials, A-Spec, Type-S, TrueTouch etc etc....

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 14:39
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CarmB wrote:
I think reskinning a Civic Type R and slapping an Acura badge on it is precisely the sort of approach that has caused Acura all manner of headaches re image management. If the Type R is so awesome, overlook the questionable exterior treatment, and just get the Type R Civic. Donít wait in vain for Honda to basically sell it as an Acura with a classier exterior.


It doesn't have to be a straight reskin. In fact it shouldn't be. But why can't Acura take lessons learned and technology from such a formidable car and apply their own Acura tech to it and give people something more luxurious, more features with some real engaging performance. The Audi S3 is just an Audi version of the Golf R. The bare bones are the same but built upon and given the luxury treatment. The Golf R was a great product that got adapted and made better in some ways to become an audi.

The new RDX did not come out of thin air. It has the Accord/Type R powertrain. It is not an Acura exclusive 2.0T and it doesn't have to be if it's done right. And even though the platform is unique, it's not like Acura threw out decades of experience from Honda developing the new plank. They built upon what they had and made something great. They don't need to use the exact civics platform but they can have a quicker turnaround time enhancing the tech they already have as a foundation. ILX class car, SHAWD, DCT with optional 6MT and a nice tune for the 2.0T. In sportback form it could take on the S5 sportback and S3 as well.

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: " The Sedans are coming, the Sedans are coming! "    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-13-2018 14:58
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KaySee wrote:
CarmB wrote:
I think reskinning a Civic Type R and slapping an Acura badge on it is precisely the sort of approach that has caused Acura all manner of headaches re image management. If the Type R is so awesome, overlook the questionable exterior treatment, and just get the Type R Civic. Donít wait in vain for Honda to basically sell it as an Acura with a classier exterior.


It doesn't have to be a straight reskin. In fact it shouldn't be. But why can't Acura take lessons learned and technology from such a formidable car and apply their own Acura tech to it and give people something more luxurious, more features with some real engaging performance. The Audi S3 is just an Audi version of the Golf R. The bare bones are the same but built upon and given the luxury treatment. The Golf R was a great product that got adapted and made better in some ways to become an audi.

The new RDX did not come out of thin air. It has the Accord/Type R powertrain. It is not an Acura exclusive 2.0T and it doesn't have to be if it's done right. And even though the platform is unique, it's not like Acura threw out decades of experience from Honda developing the new plank. They built upon what they had and made something great. They don't need to use the exact civics platform but they can have a quicker turnaround time enhancing the tech they already have as a foundation. ILX class car, SHAWD, DCT with optional 6MT and a nice tune for the 2.0T. In sportback form it could take on the S5 sportback and S3 as well.




Well from what I gathered, the powers that be in Japan wouldnít give Acura the resources to produce solid, competitive vehicles. AHM wants more control over Acura and theyíve gained a bit more power but I still donít think its enough as many of the Japanese and shareholders donít understand why Acura needs a V6 turbo and other higher end components.


 
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