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TOV Forums > Civic > > Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down

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Fester
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2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2018 12:08
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Did any one notice that the MPG for the 2019 Civic is down 4mpg highway and 3 city? Would this be to counteract contamination or did the calculation change again?
Cory
Profile for Cory
Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2018 11:40
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Where did you see this. That's not what it shows on the Honda website.

According to Honda's website the mileage is identical between 2018 and 2019 models...

LX models
2wd = 26/32/28
AWD = 25/31/27

EX and above
2wd = 28/34/30
AWD = 27/33/29

JeffX
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2018 13:27
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Cory wrote:
Where did you see this. That's not what it shows on the Honda website.

According to Honda's website the mileage is identical between 2018 and 2019 models...

LX models
2wd = 26/32/28
AWD = 25/31/27

EX and above
2wd = 28/34/30
AWD = 27/33/29



Subject line says Civic, but it (was) posted in the CR-V forum. I'm going to move it over to the Civic forum after responding here.

Assuming 'Fester' meant Civic, here are the 2018 vs 2019 numbers

LX 2.0 6MT - 2018: 28/40/32 2019: 25/36/29
LX 2.0 CVT - 2018: 31/40/34 2019: 30/38/33
EX/EX-L 1.5T CVT - 2018: 32/42/36 2019: 32/42/36
Touring 1.5T - 2018: 32/42/36 2019: 30/38/33

Looks like the 2.0 is the one that took a big hit, and also the Touring.




Last edited by JeffX on 11-14-2018 15:51
silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2018 19:27
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Whaaaat?

I am not aware of any new EPA tests standards. Nor am I aware of additional engine/emission equipment changes for 2019 Civic.

Perhaps Honda inflated the numbers in the past and many OEM are being sued and fined for bogus numbers. Could it be that Honda is now coming clean to limit their liability?

s2ktaxi
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2018 19:57
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this seems to be consistent with the Insight EX vs Insight Touring difference. I suspect the curb weight difference is a contributor.
chhan02
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2018 20:10
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I would say it's the wheel size. This is why I think the Insight Touring is a waste. You can get a better packaged Accord for the same price. Bigger better, and same MPG.
JeffX
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2018 20:40
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chhan02 wrote:
I would say it's the wheel size. This is why I think the Insight Touring is a waste. You can get a better packaged Accord for the same price. Bigger better, and same MPG.


This is exactly it. I had forgotten about the new 18" wheels on the touring trim.

Also it looks like the LX and Sport are both showing nearly the same mpg numbers, even though the sport gets 18" wheels, vs 16s in the LX. I will say that it was more difficult to achieve the sticker MPGs in the past 2.0 civics that I've driven, so maybe they decided to rerate it.

MSZ
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2018 08:44
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My sister has a 2.0 LX, and I drive a 1.5T Accord now, after 3 months of owning the Accord I have to say that Accord is far superior when it comes to fuel economy.
JeffX
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2018 10:13
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MSZ wrote:
My sister has a 2.0 LX, and I drive a 1.5T Accord now, after 3 months of owning the Accord I have to say that Accord is far superior when it comes to fuel economy.


when i tested the 2.0 Civic EX (back when they still had it) and immediately switched into a 1.5T version the difference in fuel economy was quite apparent. You can get the sticker numbers (and better) with the 2.0 but you really have to be conscientious about how you drive the car, whereas with the 1.5T it's much easier to achieve and surpass the sticker figures.

As I've noted before, in our Si (which has a sticker rating of 28/38/32), I almost have to TRY to get the highway MPG down to 38. I can cruise at 80 and it's 41-42mpg all day long. If I can bring myself to just set the cruise at 72 and relax it's easy 45+mpg.

In the 2.0 Civics, you really have to chill to hit or surpass the sticker number. It can be done but it takes a lot of patience.

s2ktaxi
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2018 21:14
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chhan02 wrote:
I would say it's the wheel size. This is why I think the Insight Touring is a waste. You can get a better packaged Accord for the same price. Bigger better, and same MPG.

wheel/tire width could make a difference the Civic Sedan Sport or the Civic Hatch Sport/Touring as examples. Didn't think that just the diameter of the wheel being larger would result in such a large difference

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2018 21:21
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Iím pretty sure the testing changes for MY2017 (so a few years ago now) put more focus on how the tires affect the efficiency of the car. I read the paper once and canít fully explain it but itís something to do with how wider tires cause more rolling resistance.
silverf16
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2018 01:27
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2017 had changes for EPA test process, not 2019. Some of it is bigger wider wheels but he LX wheels is the same size as 2018. I think Honda over inflated their rating and scared shitless of getting caught and fined they decide to stop lying..not saying they couldnt still be investigated for inflated their EPA fuel economy numbers
JeffX
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2018 01:30
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s2ktaxi wrote:
chhan02 wrote:
I would say it's the wheel size. This is why I think the Insight Touring is a waste. You can get a better packaged Accord for the same price. Bigger better, and same MPG.
ppl
wheel/tire width could make a difference the Civic Sedan Sport or the Civic Hatch Sport/Touring as examples. Didn't think that just the diameter of the wheel being larger would result in such a large difference



Overall weight tends to increase with wheel diameter so that could be enough to cause the difference. It's been pretty normal to see a negative impact on fuel economy when the wheel/tire size is the key differentiator between trim levels

s2ktaxi
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Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2018 17:25
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JeffX wrote:
s2ktaxi wrote:
chhan02 wrote:
I would say it's the wheel size. This is why I think the Insight Touring is a waste. You can get a better packaged Accord for the same price. Bigger better, and same MPG.
ppl
wheel/tire width could make a difference the Civic Sedan Sport or the Civic Hatch Sport/Touring as examples. Didn't think that just the diameter of the wheel being larger would result in such a large difference



Overall weight tends to increase with wheel diameter so that could be enough to cause the difference. It's been pretty normal to see a negative impact on fuel economy when the wheel/tire size is the key differentiator between trim levels


I will try to use a set of RSX wheels (16.5#). that should get 50 mpg :)

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2018 11:32
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s2ktaxi wrote:
JeffX wrote:
s2ktaxi wrote:
chhan02 wrote:
I would say it's the wheel size. This is why I think the Insight Touring is a waste. You can get a better packaged Accord for the same price. Bigger better, and same MPG.
ppl
wheel/tire width could make a difference the Civic Sedan Sport or the Civic Hatch Sport/Touring as examples. Didn't think that just the diameter of the wheel being larger would result in such a large difference



Overall weight tends to increase with wheel diameter so that could be enough to cause the difference. It's been pretty normal to see a negative impact on fuel economy when the wheel/tire size is the key differentiator between trim levels


I will try to use a set of RSX wheels (16.5#). that should get 50 mpg :)



Maybe. I would expect that the "city" fuel economy would see more benefit from this though, as less energy is wasted in stop and go conditions. At steady state freeway speeds, the overall wheel/tire weight probably would have less of an impact but as you point out, the different tire characteristics (primarily rolling resistance) would weigh more heavily.

Sport and Touring trims have 10mm wider tires, correct?

s2ktaxi
Profile for s2ktaxi
Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2018 21:04
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In the Civic, yes, the sport and touring have wider tires. But on the Insight, the Touring tires are the same width - that was what surprised me - same width tires with 2-3 lb heavier rims resulting in 4 mpg differences. Having used 5lbs lighter wheels per corner in other cars, I've never seen 4 mpg differences in gas mileage reduction.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2018 21:58
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s2ktaxi wrote:
In the Civic, yes, the sport and touring have wider tires. But on the Insight, the Touring tires are the same width - that was what surprised me - same width tires with 2-3 lb heavier rims resulting in 4 mpg differences. Having used 5lbs lighter wheels per corner in other cars, I've never seen 4 mpg differences in gas mileage reduction.


well, high MPG cars are far more heavily impacted by simple things like a slight headwind, or even the pressure in the tires. A milliliter of additional fuel consumption results in a greater MPG impact than it would for a vehicle that starts out with a lower MPG. For example, a 4mpg reduction from a vehicle that achieves 50mpg is rather small when you think of it in terms of gallons per 100 miles.

50mpg=.0200 gallons/mile
46mph=.0217 gallons/mile

The difference is .0017 of a gallon/mile. That works out just over 6ml/mile (just a bit more than a teaspoon)

Now let's look at a 30mpg car. A 4mpg reduction in fuel economy is a lot more in terms of actual fuel use per mile.

30mpg=0.0333 gallons/mile
26mpg=0.0385 gallons/mile

here, the 4mpg reduction is actually a difference of 0.0052 gallon/mile, which works out to over 19ml/mile increase in fuel consumption - nearly 4 teaspoons.

This is one reason some folks have been saying we need to change our mileage rating system to the inverse of mpg (like everybody else, who rates fuel economy in terms of liters/100km).


 
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