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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......

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longhorn
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So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 17:43
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Interesting what they found. Pros and Cons.

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/10/tesla-model-3-dissected-batteries-electric-motor-great-chassis-not/


GoFaster
Profile for GoFaster
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2018 00:24
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great find thanks
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2018 04:11
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It's too new a company to have the capital to afford the huge, complex presses to make large, one-piece stampings. They have to do it the fiddly, labour-intensive way.

So the body production resembles a low-volume product - or a Borgward from the 1950s! It's probably a problem at the volumes they are selling, but would've been fine if the car sold in smaller quantities.

It does rather confirm what many suggested - stuffing Tesla electrickery into a body from a mainstream player would probably be optimal.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2018 15:27
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Nick GravesX wrote:
It's too new a company to have the capital to afford the huge, complex presses to make large, one-piece stampings. They have to do it the fiddly, labour-intensive way.

So the body production resembles a low-volume product - or a Borgward from the 1950s! It's probably a problem at the volumes they are selling, but would've been fine if the car sold in smaller quantities.

It does rather confirm what many suggested - stuffing Tesla electrickery into a body from a mainstream player would probably be optimal.



eneka
Profile for eneka
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2018 19:45
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Nick GravesX wrote:

It does rather confirm what many suggested - stuffing Tesla electrickery into a body from a mainstream player would probably be optimal.




sounds like our Mercedes B250e and the Toyota RAV4 EV. Too bad the powertrain refinement on the electric b-class is piss poor.

fishchan
Profile for fishchan
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2018 22:13
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"Meanwhile, the aluminum trunk is made from multiple pieces held together with rivets and weld points instead of a one-piece lighter and cheaper fiberglass design, which is how other automakers go about doing things. The rear wheel well on the Model 3 has as many as nine pieces of metal riveted, sealed or welded together, whereas the Chevy Bolt, for instance, has one stamped piece of steel."


Replace the trunk with fiberglass??? Not sure that is the better idea?

bigblue
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Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2018 07:22
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Also, software and electronics inside the Model 3 are better than what you get from other automakers. Tesla managed to reduce the amount of wiring found in the car by packing a lot of the electronics in small circuit boards the type of advantage Silicon Valley has over everyone else.
Err, what ? What magic of electronics does Silicon Valley have over Bosch or someone like that producing parts for the big automotive manufacturers ? I think that's a throwaway made-up line. Unless the incumbents are massively behind the curve, which I can't believe when everybody's squeezing out every packaging / mechanical / every other gain they can.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2018 10:37
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bigblue wrote:
Also, software and electronics inside the Model 3 are better than what you get from other automakers. Tesla managed to reduce the amount of wiring found in the car by packing a lot of the electronics in small circuit boards the type of advantage Silicon Valley has over everyone else.
Err, what ? What magic of electronics does Silicon Valley have over Bosch or someone like that producing parts for the big automotive manufacturers ? I think that's a throwaway made-up line. Unless the incumbents are massively behind the curve, which I can't believe when everybody's squeezing out every packaging / mechanical / every other gain they can.



This isn't a made up line. Bosch et al. are electronics giants, but they make systems and modules which have to adhere to the concept of "off the shelf" items that can be used in multiple types of vehicles and have to adhere to certain standards (OBD/CANBUS).

Tesla doesn't need to do any of that, so they have their own unique electronics. So a combination of proprietary ASICs, flex PCBs and the like, making the modules more phone like and compact compared to what the other OEMs are offering. It's much more integrated, and in the case of the Model 3, the majority of the powertrain costs resides in the battery pack as a result (in fact most of the powertrain, period, lies in that pack).

It's much like having a PC vs. a tablet computer; one is extremely modular while the other is integrated.

fishchan wrote:

"Meanwhile, the aluminum trunk is made from multiple pieces held together with rivets and weld points instead of a one-piece lighter and cheaper fiberglass design, which is how other automakers go about doing things. The rear wheel well on the Model 3 has as many as nine pieces of metal riveted, sealed or welded together, whereas the Chevy Bolt, for instance, has one stamped piece of steel."

Replace the trunk with fiberglass??? Not sure that is the better idea?



It's the same thing with wheel well liners. Not only is this lighter, but it's actually better because it's much more impact and corrosion resistant than steel.

fishchan
Profile for fishchan
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-24-2018 21:42
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CarPhreakD wrote:
It's the same thing with wheel well liners. Not only is this lighter, but it's actually better because it's much more impact and corrosion resistant than steel.


I would prefer the aluminum tunk the the fiberglass. Wheel well I understand. If the car came with a stupidly heavy steel trunk or hood (like the 90s camry - you will die if the strut fail and that thing fall on top of you) , then yes maybe it would be a good idea to use fiberglass instead.

Otherwise if the car is some expensive EV then they should start thinking of ways to reduce the pieces but still keep the aluminm.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2018 04:01
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fishchan wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
It's the same thing with wheel well liners. Not only is this lighter, but it's actually better because it's much more impact and corrosion resistant than steel.


I would prefer the aluminum tunk the the fiberglass. Wheel well I understand. If the car came with a stupidly heavy steel trunk or hood (like the 90s camry - you will die if the strut fail and that thing fall on top of you) , then yes maybe it would be a good idea to use fiberglass instead.

Otherwise if the car is some expensive EV then they should start thinking of ways to reduce the pieces but still keep the aluminm.



What's wrong with composites? The Citroen DS originally had a translucent roof and the BX had a plastic tailgate, which was an impressive moulding. And I won't mention the NC NSX. Oh, I did...

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2018 09:39
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fishchan wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
It's the same thing with wheel well liners. Not only is this lighter, but it's actually better because it's much more impact and corrosion resistant than steel.


I would prefer the aluminum tunk the the fiberglass. Wheel well I understand. If the car came with a stupidly heavy steel trunk or hood (like the 90s camry - you will die if the strut fail and that thing fall on top of you) , then yes maybe it would be a good idea to use fiberglass instead.

Otherwise if the car is some expensive EV then they should start thinking of ways to reduce the pieces but still keep the aluminm.



When they say trunk, they don't mean trunk lid. They mean the actual TRUNK.

Using composites is an obvious and easy way to reduce weight and cost, especially parts of the car that don't see much UV or huge temperature fluctuations.

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2018 16:42
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Nick GravesX wrote:
fishchan wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
It's the same thing with wheel well liners. Not only is this lighter, but it's actually better because it's much more impact and corrosion resistant than steel.


I would prefer the aluminum tunk the the fiberglass. Wheel well I understand. If the car came with a stupidly heavy steel trunk or hood (like the 90s camry - you will die if the strut fail and that thing fall on top of you) , then yes maybe it would be a good idea to use fiberglass instead.

Otherwise if the car is some expensive EV then they should start thinking of ways to reduce the pieces but still keep the aluminm.



What's wrong with composites? The Citroen DS originally had a translucent roof and the BX had a plastic tailgate, which was an impressive moulding. And I won't mention the NC NSX. Oh, I did...


BX has plastic tailgate, hood/bonet, and doors. Saw a fire truck demolish one when I was a kid. Inside a familly of 4. No one was hurtled but the car was rear ended in a way that it was like a torsion dummy.

Here are the plastic parts of the BX :



Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2018 04:17
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^ Yes - it was innovative in the early 1980s.

I saw one that had had a shunt - the front looked absolutely fine, apart from the headlights/slam panel being too far back! The panel gaps were never that great from the factory anyway...

Chris David
Profile for Chris David
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2018 16:01
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Nick GravesX wrote:
It's too new a company to have the capital to afford the huge, complex presses to make large, one-piece stampings.


They have a market cap of $56B.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: So they took apart a Tesla 3 and found.......    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2018 01:30
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Chris David wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
It's too new a company to have the capital to afford the huge, complex presses to make large, one-piece stampings.


They have a market cap of $56B.



Yes, but as has been extensively discussed, their stock price is not reflective of actual cash flow size. They probably COULD have had all of those things had Musk not pissed it away trying to prove that he knew better how to build a car, but even then, their actual capital is a fraction of the larger automakers.


 
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