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TOV Forums > Type R > > Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like

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JeffX
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Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 09:28
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https://www.topgear.com/car-news/hot-hatch/heres-what-seven-months-living-honda-civic-type-r

Conclusion after 10,500 miles in the TG CTR? Still the best hot hatch on Earth

“But you wouldn’t actually have one, would you?” “I really might, actually.” “But… look at it.” That’s what every exchange over 10,523 miles and seven months with Top Gear’s 2017 Car of the Year has boiled down to. Folks will accept the 316bhp, Nürburgring-bred, multi-lap-record-breaking, £300/month Type R is an enormous amount of performance for not a massive amount of money. That it’s a honed driving tool, yet more liveable everyday than its predecessor. But people just can’t get beyond the Sonic/Lego/Halfords/Transformer/Elephant Man looks. Pick your metaphor. I’ve heard ’em all.

silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 13:02
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The praise on this car and and the criticisms on its styling has been consistent amongst all reviews. What is troubling is that Honda styling team and the senior leadership is either blind to this or rationalized it is ok to release a top performing sport compact that looks like a complete turd.

And to those that think it doesn't matter because they are selling everything they can build, that is short sighted because the vehicle is on the verge of greatness if only the styling team worked as passionately as the chassis /powertrain team. For that, some will still think it is an absurd looking car priced for adults who has teenager taste in style

For Honda, it is the opportunity lost in more sales. For owners, a good looking CTR would be like marrying a practical woman that you connect heart and soul with and has supermodel looks.

Some just won't spend $38k out the door for something that is ugly.



Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 13:10
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Nearly all reviews have been very positive when it comes to the CTR's handling. On the negative side, other than the busy looks, It has traction issues at launch. With AWD, this car would do 0-60 in low 5s (if not high 4s) rather than high 5s or low 6s.

It would be great if Honda offer more variants, to 1) tone down the looks and offer higher profile tires, 2) have AWD (they seem to have designed the car around AWD), and 3) have more features, such as HomeLink (costs them a few dollars?).

Of course they'd have to increase production so fans can buy them without hassles.



Sasker
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Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 13:18
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If Honda offers a more "mature" version of the CTR, I think the current version will lose its value. Most buyers get this car in spite of the looks, not because of it. This is reminding me of the 2009-2011 TL, which had that weird beak, even though it was a good car otherwise.

RMTRADER
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Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 14:20
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Sasker wrote:
Nearly all reviews have been very positive when it comes to the CTR's handling. On the negative side, other than the busy looks, It has traction issues at launch. With AWD, this car would do 0-60 in low 5s (if not high 4s) rather than high 5s or low 6s.

It would be great if Honda offer more variants, to 1) tone down the looks and offer higher profile tires, 2) have AWD (they seem to have designed the car around AWD), and 3) have more features, such as HomeLink (costs them a few dollars?).

Of course they'd have to increase production so fans can buy them without hassles.





C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 16:40
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silverf16 wrote:
The praise on this car and and the criticisms on its styling has been consistent amongst all reviews. What is troubling is that Honda styling team and the senior leadership is either blind to this or rationalized it is ok to release a top performing sport compact that looks like a complete turd.

And to those that think it doesn't matter because they are selling everything they can build, that is short sighted because the vehicle is on the verge of greatness if only the styling team worked as passionately as the chassis /powertrain team. For that, some will still think it is an absurd looking car priced for adults who has teenager taste in style

For Honda, it is the opportunity lost in more sales. For owners, a good looking CTR would be like marrying a practical woman that you connect heart and soul with and has supermodel looks.

Some just won't spend $38k out the door for something that is ugly.


I do not think that the styling was a major consideration when they created the current CTR, and drivers of other FWD performance cars will mostly be seeing the rear spoilers as it passes them on the track.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 17:53
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RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.

Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 19:18
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Might happen if you look at the product lifecycles, Honda is surely intending cost effective running of that one production line in UK, they just added the CRV, with marketing efforts on expensive hybrid options, so that will make up some high margin demand for 1-2 years, thereafter a new ILX / entry Acura is due.
Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 20:22
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Sasker wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.


Lol
0-60 is not a measure to take into account. Check lap times, this is faster than a 5.0 L Mustang on track.

Well faster than many cars that are faster on the 0-60 challenge.

Type R is a race car for the road, just drive one and you will forget everything negative.

This is the best track car for the money. Punkt an de lijn.

RMTRADER
Profile for RMTRADER
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 21:04
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Sasker wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.



Right. This is why I said buy a beater for the winter.

Growing up on RWD V8 cars in the snow I lived to tell about it.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 02:28
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Mikgtir wrote:
Sasker wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.


Lol
0-60 is not a measure to take into account. Check lap times, this is faster than a 5.0 L Mustang on track.

Well faster than many cars that are faster on the 0-60 challenge.

Type R is a race car for the road, just drive one and you will forget everything negative.

This is the best track car for the money. Punkt an de lijn.



Actually it's not faster than a Mustang. Not even close.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2018

That's a full 10 seconds/lap _slower_ than the Mustang.

Mind you the CTR has appeal beyond the numbers, but let's not pretend its a world beater. It's the best handling FWD car out there, but there are lots of cars that go a lot faster. In reality, it's about as quick as a V6 Camaro 1LE, which also happens to sell for about the same money.

The world has changed a lot since the last time we got a real Type-R world car. Other makers have figured out how to do fast 4cyl cars, the American's have made their muscle cars into sports cars, and tire technology is the key determinant to speed these days.

Appreciate the CTR for what it is, rather than worrying about whether or not other cars do something different/faster/etc.

SC

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 07:06
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notyper wrote:
Mikgtir wrote:
Sasker wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.


Lol
0-60 is not a measure to take into account. Check lap times, this is faster than a 5.0 L Mustang on track.

Well faster than many cars that are faster on the 0-60 challenge.

Type R is a race car for the road, just drive one and you will forget everything negative.

This is the best track car for the money. Punkt an de lijn.



Actually it's not faster than a Mustang. Not even close.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2018

That's a full 10 seconds/lap _slower_ than the Mustang.

Mind you the CTR has appeal beyond the numbers, but let's not pretend its a world beater. It's the best handling FWD car out there, but there are lots of cars that go a lot faster. In reality, it's about as quick as a V6 Camaro 1LE, which also happens to sell for about the same money.

The world has changed a lot since the last time we got a real Type-R world car. Other makers have figured out how to do fast 4cyl cars, the American's have made their muscle cars into sports cars, and tire technology is the key determinant to speed these days.

Appreciate the CTR for what it is, rather than worrying about whether or not other cars do something different/faster/etc.

SC



Average Joe will be faster with a CTR than with a Mustang.

Not even mentioning "car and coffee s" meets were the pony cars lie to make the public dance and twist...

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 07:14
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And you are talking Mustang performance pack 2, not the base one..

With the on paper 10 k + catalog price you can push the Type R performance up to 420 + hp and improve rubber.

Stock Type R is faster on track than a stock with no upgrade package Mustang 5.0

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 08:18
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Mikgtir wrote:
And you are talking Mustang performance pack 2, not the base one..

With the on paper 10 k + catalog price you can push the Type R performance up to 420 + hp and improve rubber.

Stock Type R is faster on track than a stock with no upgrade package Mustang 5.0



Lol, you said 5.0 liter. Didn't realize you were going to have to pick the slowest one from 3 years ago to make your point.....And do you really think the extra 40 hp (more at the wheels) and chassis refinements Ford has made since 2015 aren't going to make even the base GT noticeably faster? It was only 1 second down 3 years ago....

And if you look at the Mustang PP1 times going back to 2015 they're faster than the CTR as well, even without the stickier rubber of the PP2. And let's be honest, unless you're putting drag slicks on a Civic, you're not going to match the acceleration of any 2018 Mustang GT. That motor is incredible and that's why its more expensive than the Civic.

Sorry, the CTR just isn't _that_ fast in the grand scheme of things. It's fast for its competitive set (pretty much right there with the Focus RS and just a touch ahead of the STI RA), but turbo 4cyl hot hatches are bottom rung these days on the performance tree, only ahead of the NA 4cyl sports coupes (miata, FT86, etc.) when it comes to sporting vehicles.

Focus on how it drives and interacts with the driver. Don't worry about the lap times or acceleration because you'll have to tie yourself in knots to justify spending $35k on a Civic if you do.

SC

(and don't assume a noob will go faster in the Civic - it's very neutral which can be scary for inexperienced average joes. The Mustangs are actually very forgiving and require stupid behavior to get out of shape)

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 08:25
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Sasker wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.



What would keep you from enjoying a fwd car all year round? I'm in southern Ontario and I've driven through decades of blizzards and record breaking snowfall. I've had integras, accords, a neon a few civics and they have given me no issues. There are challenges in that type of weather for sure, but I've seen plenty of subarus and suvs stuck in ditches or spin out. Unless your commute is an ice road trucker level you should be fine.

I feel people think they need awd for winter when I talk to them about new cars I'm looking at. With winter tires a good fwd car is more than enough to tackle winter.

If they gave awd to the ctr platform I hope it's an Acura. I feel the spirit behind the ctr is doing more with less. Things have changed obviously but keeping it fwd shows Honda's engineering ability as they take out awd and rwd competition on the track with less power in many cases. Making it awd would remove some of this specialness and add weight and complexity.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 10:08
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KaySee wrote:
Sasker wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.



What would keep you from enjoying a fwd car all year round? I'm in southern Ontario and I've driven through decades of blizzards and record breaking snowfall. I've had integras, accords, a neon a few civics and they have given me no issues. There are challenges in that type of weather for sure, but I've seen plenty of subarus and suvs stuck in ditches or spin out. Unless your commute is an ice road trucker level you should be fine.

I feel people think they need awd for winter when I talk to them about new cars I'm looking at. With winter tires a good fwd car is more than enough to tackle winter.

If they gave awd to the ctr platform I hope it's an Acura. I feel the spirit behind the ctr is doing more with less. Things have changed obviously but keeping it fwd shows Honda's engineering ability as they take out awd and rwd competition on the track with less power in many cases. Making it awd would remove some of this specialness and add weight and complexity.


The main limitation with our FWD's (or AWD for that matter) on decent tires in snow is ground clearance. Once the chassis is high centered on deeper snow, traction is gone.

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 10:40
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KaySee wrote:

What would keep you from enjoying a fwd car all year round? I'm in southern Ontario and I've driven through decades of blizzards and record breaking snowfall. I've had integras, accords, a neon a few civics and they have given me no issues. There are challenges in that type of weather for sure, but I've seen plenty of subarus and suvs stuck in ditches or spin out. Unless your commute is an ice road trucker level you should be fine.

I feel people think they need awd for winter when I talk to them about new cars I'm looking at. With winter tires a good fwd car is more than enough to tackle winter.

If they gave awd to the ctr platform I hope it's an Acura. I feel the spirit behind the ctr is doing more with less. Things have changed obviously but keeping it fwd shows Honda's engineering ability as they take out awd and rwd competition on the track with less power in many cases. Making it awd would remove some of this specialness and add weight and complexity.


I've been driving FWD cars with winter tires in ice and snow for a long time too. I've lived in Saskatchewan, southern and northern Ontario, BC, and Alberta, so yes it can be done, but it is not as convenient as AWD. The main problem for me is starting or accelerating in uphill situations, where depending on the conditions, can result in sliding and moving sideways, all the way to simply getting stuck or sliding back. Even in Vancouver, which doesn't have a Winter by Canadian standards, it is easy to spin the wheels on a steep incline when it is raining (and I would make regular visits to Whistler all Winter long, so snow and ice traction was an issue there too).

I know the CTR's thing is to be a great handling FWD car, that is why my wish is to have a variant with AWD. The CTR checks major boxes for me, mainly great handling, hatchback, and a good manual, and if I were living in a milder climate I would not mind the drivetrain layout, but the fact is, FWD cars are traction limited when accelerating, and that is magnified in uphill and low traction situations like ice and snow.

I don't track my cars and I want to have one car for commuting, grocery shopping, and mountain roads driving. I am looking for the goodness of the CTR but with a more winter-friendly setup. an AWD CTR may not be as nimble as a FWD one in dry conditions, but where I live performance cars are neutralized for several months unless they have AWD.

RMTRADER
Profile for RMTRADER
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 13:44
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Sasker wrote:
KaySee wrote:

What would keep you from enjoying a fwd car all year round? I'm in southern Ontario and I've driven through decades of blizzards and record breaking snowfall. I've had integras, accords, a neon a few civics and they have given me no issues. There are challenges in that type of weather for sure, but I've seen plenty of subarus and suvs stuck in ditches or spin out. Unless your commute is an ice road trucker level you should be fine.

I feel people think they need awd for winter when I talk to them about new cars I'm looking at. With winter tires a good fwd car is more than enough to tackle winter.

If they gave awd to the ctr platform I hope it's an Acura. I feel the spirit behind the ctr is doing more with less. Things have changed obviously but keeping it fwd shows Honda's engineering ability as they take out awd and rwd competition on the track with less power in many cases. Making it awd would remove some of this specialness and add weight and complexity.


I've been driving FWD cars with winter tires in ice and snow for a long time too. I've lived in Saskatchewan, southern and northern Ontario, BC, and Alberta, so yes it can be done, but it is not as convenient as AWD. The main problem for me is starting or accelerating in uphill situations, where depending on the conditions, can result in sliding and moving sideways, all the way to simply getting stuck or sliding back. Even in Vancouver, which doesn't have a Winter by Canadian standards, it is easy to spin the wheels on a steep incline when it is raining (and I would make regular visits to Whistler all Winter long, so snow and ice traction was an issue there too).

I know the CTR's thing is to be a great handling FWD car, that is why my wish is to have a variant with AWD. The CTR checks major boxes for me, mainly great handling, hatchback, and a good manual, and if I were living in a milder climate I would not mind the drivetrain layout, but the fact is, FWD cars are traction limited when accelerating, and that is magnified in uphill and low traction situations like ice and snow.

I don't track my cars and I want to have one car for commuting, grocery shopping, and mountain roads driving. I am looking for the goodness of the CTR but with a more winter-friendly setup. an AWD CTR may not be as nimble as a FWD one in dry conditions, but where I live performance cars are neutralized for several months unless they have AWD.



You say you want the goodnesswoukd of the Type R but then want to remove a lot of it by adding AWD and weight, complexity. You dull what makes it special in the first place. You don’t want a Type R. You want a TLX.

I live in Alberta North so understand winter driving very well. The only thing AWD is going to give you is traction off the line. Otherwise, a FWD car with a good LSD and snow tires will be just as good when moving. I have an AWD car now and while it is fun to slide around parking lots in the snow, I am not doing that on the street.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 14:38
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Sasker wrote:
KaySee wrote:

What would keep you from enjoying a fwd car all year round? I'm in southern Ontario and I've driven through decades of blizzards and record breaking snowfall. I've had integras, accords, a neon a few civics and they have given me no issues. There are challenges in that type of weather for sure, but I've seen plenty of subarus and suvs stuck in ditches or spin out. Unless your commute is an ice road trucker level you should be fine.

I feel people think they need awd for winter when I talk to them about new cars I'm looking at. With winter tires a good fwd car is more than enough to tackle winter.

If they gave awd to the ctr platform I hope it's an Acura. I feel the spirit behind the ctr is doing more with less. Things have changed obviously but keeping it fwd shows Honda's engineering ability as they take out awd and rwd competition on the track with less power in many cases. Making it awd would remove some of this specialness and add weight and complexity.


I've been driving FWD cars with winter tires in ice and snow for a long time too. I've lived in Saskatchewan, southern and northern Ontario, BC, and Alberta, so yes it can be done, but it is not as convenient as AWD. The main problem for me is starting or accelerating in uphill situations, where depending on the conditions, can result in sliding and moving sideways, all the way to simply getting stuck or sliding back. Even in Vancouver, which doesn't have a Winter by Canadian standards, it is easy to spin the wheels on a steep incline when it is raining (and I would make regular visits to Whistler all Winter long, so snow and ice traction was an issue there too).

I know the CTR's thing is to be a great handling FWD car, that is why my wish is to have a variant with AWD. The CTR checks major boxes for me, mainly great handling, hatchback, and a good manual, and if I were living in a milder climate I would not mind the drivetrain layout, but the fact is, FWD cars are traction limited when accelerating, and that is magnified in uphill and low traction situations like ice and snow.

I don't track my cars and I want to have one car for commuting, grocery shopping, and mountain roads driving. I am looking for the goodness of the CTR but with a more winter-friendly setup. an AWD CTR may not be as nimble as a FWD one in dry conditions, but where I live performance cars are neutralized for several months unless they have AWD.



Looks like we've been through similar conditions during our winter driving careers. I personally have more fun on the roads during winter with my cars than during the warmer seasons. All the scenarios you mentions can be overcome with a fwd drive car and a little clutch / throttle modulation but I'm sure you've been through that. For all weather performance, I'd agree that awd is major plus. But for all weather fun and enjoyment fwd is just fine. Awd is more of a performance perk than an inclement weather perk. You may have to be a bit more attentive but fwd can get you through the vast majority of situations. However, awd helps you get that launch traction in the dry and helps retain some of that pull in the bad weather too. I've tracked my current car just this weekend and I got groceries the same day and it's been through a hefty winter. I've had blast with having two wheel drive and even though awd has its benefits I think it gets over hyped for bad weather.

Like you though, I'd love to see an shawd variant in an Acura product with a 6MT. I'd take that over the current ctr. But the awd would be more for the performance benefits to me, rather than the bad weather perks. Again that's part of the reason why the ctr gets props, because it's handicapped in a way by the issues with performance fwd layouts. But with Honda sorcery it comes out tops in its class. And even against cars it shouldn't beat with awd or rwd layouts.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 15:06
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I want to be clear that I do feel awd has the advantage in bad weather situations for sure. Just not to a massive extent in the majority of situations average people face. In the extremes where awd is truly beneficial I doubt people would be driving an awd hot hatch around there anyway.

In my area during the first snowfalls it's usually audis, subarus and big SUVs I see getting bailed out by tow trucks. Thats not awds fault per se. But I feel like people get a false sense of confidence as well. My preference is for two wheel drive cars. But if Acura makes what I want in shawd I'll bite. A lot has changed with the type r formula as well so I wouldn't rule out an awd version of that either. If they did make one I think I'd still take the fwd one as that best represents the spirit of why you are buying a type r.

Sasker
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Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-21-2018 20:59
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An AWD CTR (or an Acura variant) is not impossible because Honda seems to have reserved space for a rear differential. We'll have to see how it performs if and when it is offered. If it is an Acura, I really hope they offer a manual, because CVTs and automatics with torque converters are annoying to me.

If Honda doesn't offer a manual AWD I'll have to look at Porsche's PDK in something like a Macan, but I am really hoping for a Honda/Acura manual hatch. I had an automatic car for a while and it took away most of the driving fun.


Hondarulez
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Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 01:27
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Hmmm to be fair the CTR isn't just faster than the NA 4 cyl sports coupes, but it's also comparable to other sporting vehicles like the RS5 and RS3.

Yup, I tracked my CTR when it's 100% stock, and also tracked it with some Toyo R888R, huge difference. So ya, no doubt the Mustang GT PP2 that is $10k more expensive with a bunch of track mods and Sport Cup 2's would run circles around an econobox.

Mikgtir said the Type R is the best track car for the money. I agree, but would also add that it's the best track car for $35k along with a few other cars like the Camaro 1LE V6. But the CTR does more than just being a really good track car in its price range. It can seat 4 people comfortably. It can carry a lot more cargo than a camaro or mustang. It's probably more fuel efficient in the real world. It's also almost just as comfortable as a regular Civic in comfort mode.

For the styling, I don't think it's the Type R team that is responsible for that. The regular Civic hatchback already looks like that with the fake vents. The stuff that the Type R are pretty much all functional. I'm not sure if they could change too much about the bodywork that is already standard on the car while keeping the costs down.

It would be lovely to have homelink in this car. Otherwise, features wise, it's great. Granted, I'm in Canada, so our version does come with wireless phone charger, lane watch camera, and heated mirrors. IIRC, US models don't have those.

I drove mine last winter with a set of 18" winter wheels and had no issue in our hilly surroundings.

Most of the tests put the CTR in the low 5's for 0-60mph, including C/D, Motor Trend, Road and Track.


notyper
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Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 08:46
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Hondarulez wrote:

Yup, I tracked my CTR when it's 100% stock, and also tracked it with some Toyo R888R, huge difference. So ya, no doubt the Mustang GT PP2 that is $10k more expensive with a bunch of track mods and Sport Cup 2's would run circles around an econobox.

Mikgtir said the Type R is the best track car for the money. I agree, but would also add that it's the best track car for $35k along with a few other cars like the Camaro 1LE V6. But the CTR does more than just being a really good track car in its price range. It can seat 4 people comfortably. It can carry a lot more cargo than a camaro or mustang. It's probably more fuel efficient in the real world. It's also almost just as comfortable as a regular Civic in comfort mode.



Yeah, but you don't need a PP2 to equal the CTR, the regular GT is right there now for similar money. I would agree that the CTR is more track focused, and you're getting some excellent steering, body control and the feeling of lightness you don't get in the Mustang. With the Mustang you're getting a 50% more power, RWD acceleration and a very different style/vibe.

That's why I said, don't try and justify a CTR purchase with track times or acceleration. Look at the subjective things instead. It's like comparing a Porsche GT3 to a McLaren. The McLaren is hugely fast, especially in a straight line, but the GT3 offers some very special things in terms of feel and character that you can't get in the McLaren (including the manual trans option) while offering similar lap times - which is why you buy the GT3.

BTW, I'd argue that a Miata or FRS at $25k-$27k are also right there for B4B in terms of track cars. $10k less and they open up a whole range of dynamic vistas that the CTR can't (by dint of being RWD). They're wonderful training tools that grow with the driver.

It's nice that we have options these days for track ready production vehicles.

$25k Miata
$28k FRS
$35k CTR, Camaro 1LE
$41k Focus RS
$45k Camaro SS 1LE, Mustang GT PP2
$55k Mustang GT350 (if you can find one)
$60k Camaro ZL1, BMW M2 (I've driven both, and while the ZL1 is immensely fast, the M2 is far more satisfying at mortal speeds)

SC

typer_801
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Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 09:39
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True, BUT 99% of Mustang GT (5.0L) aren't PP2 equipped. I've still never seen one in person or at a dealership, they're hard to find. There are more, but still not huge percentages of the PP1 (original Performance Package) and the CTR is 4 seconds per lap faster than those (2015 fixed rate dampers). And it will be considerably faster than a base trim car (no brembos, no torsen, narrow wheels/tires, taller final drive, softer springs/shocks).

notyper wrote:
Mikgtir wrote:
Sasker wrote:
RMTRADER wrote:

C&D got one at 4.9 seconds. I hope they don't make this AWD - just adds weight and takes away from handling. If you need to drive one in the snow, buy a beater.


Yes, but that 4.9s is an outlier among the times I've seen. Aside from perfect-weather acceleration, I drive on ice and snow 4 to 5 months of the year. With a car like the CTR, I'd like to enjoy it all year round, hence the interest in AWD.


Lol
0-60 is not a measure to take into account. Check lap times, this is faster than a 5.0 L Mustang on track.

Well faster than many cars that are faster on the 0-60 challenge.

Type R is a race car for the road, just drive one and you will forget everything negative.

This is the best track car for the money. Punkt an de lijn.



Actually it's not faster than a Mustang. Not even close.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2018

That's a full 10 seconds/lap _slower_ than the Mustang.

Mind you the CTR has appeal beyond the numbers, but let's not pretend its a world beater. It's the best handling FWD car out there, but there are lots of cars that go a lot faster. In reality, it's about as quick as a V6 Camaro 1LE, which also happens to sell for about the same money.

The world has changed a lot since the last time we got a real Type-R world car. Other makers have figured out how to do fast 4cyl cars, the American's have made their muscle cars into sports cars, and tire technology is the key determinant to speed these days.

Appreciate the CTR for what it is, rather than worrying about whether or not other cars do something different/faster/etc.

SC



notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 15:56
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typer_801 wrote:
True, BUT 99% of Mustang GT (5.0L) aren't PP2 equipped. I've still never seen one in person or at a dealership, they're hard to find. There are more, but still not huge percentages of the PP1 (original Performance Package) and the CTR is 4 seconds per lap faster than those (2015 fixed rate dampers). And it will be considerably faster than a base trim car (no brembos, no torsen, narrow wheels/tires, taller final drive, softer springs/shocks).


I'm sorry, but I'm laughing pretty hard right now.

Let's more specifically parse what you're trying to say here:

Because a PP1 Mustang from 2015, was 3.4 seconds faster than a GT from _2011_ and 1.3 seconds slower than a Civic Type-R today, then by definition a base Mustang GT today will be slower than a CTR because a PP2 Mustang GT is only 10.1 seconds faster than the CTR today.

Am I getting that all straight?

Never mind that a GT PP1 is about 3-4 sec/lap slower on a 2 min track lap than a PP2 (and was also about 3.5 sec/lap slower than a 18 Camaro SS 1LE - The CTR is 6 sec/lap slower than a GT PP2 on a 1:30 lap). Even if you extrapolate that to 5-6 sec/lap on a 3 min lap, the non race tire (and much smaller tired), non-splitter PP1 is still 4-5 sec lap faster than a CTR, which is an eternity.

I suppose you could argue though that a base GT on all-season tires might be 5 seconds/lap slower. I guess I could give you that one - maybe (it might not be, 5 seconds is a long time). But since every lap time comparison I've seen with a Mustang (including every time quoted in this thread) at least includes the basic performance options, does it really matter?

Again, the CTR is not going to light the world on fire with its lap times and such because its still just a 300 hp, 3100 lbs FWD car. It can only go so fast. Its beauty is in the _way_ it drives and communicates with the driver. The way the chassis is so well integrated and the parts all work together is special (and something that Mustangs tend to lack until you get to the GT350 and maybe the PP2 car, but reviews are mixed on the latter). But in the end, it is what it is.

SC

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 17:30
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https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/the-honda-civic-type-r-smashes-new-record-this-time-at-silverstone-ar181690.amp.html
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 17:50
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I WANT MINE

I'LL TURN 60 SOON. (*)

I don't need/want a new wife, family, (**)...

I WANT A CIVIC TYPE R. In RED.

My wife just mentioned that we currently don't have a stick shift, and we just sold the Civic Hybrid.

(*) Fuck, I'm getting old! My cousin in law, only 57, just got himself a Miata Hard Top (powered targa top), but he got it with the paddle shifters. Nice, but it doesn't have a wing or a clutch.

(**) OK a Lingo 3 power supply and a pair of low miles Pass Aleph 2s would be nice too.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 17:58
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silverf16 wrote:
The praise on this car and and the criticisms on its styling has been consistent amongst all reviews. What is troubling is that Honda styling team and the senior leadership is either blind to this or rationalized it is ok to release a top performing sport compact that looks like a complete turd.

And to those that think it doesn't matter because they are selling everything they can build, that is short sighted because the vehicle is on the verge of greatness if only the styling team worked as passionately as the chassis /powertrain team. For that, some will still think it is an absurd looking car priced for adults who has teenager taste in style

For Honda, it is the opportunity lost in more sales. For owners, a good looking CTR would be like marrying a practical woman that you connect heart and soul with and has supermodel looks.

Some just won't spend $38k out the door for something that is ugly.





Who cares? I'm getting tired of sensible looking cars.

When I get mine, first thing is gonna be putting the Si's top lip spoiler so I get a Triplane.

Bring on that wing, baby, bring on that wing.

Life is too short. I've been driving nice cars with responsible spoilers all these years. Turned down the tall Type R wing available for our RSX-S (my wife wanted it).

Fuck it. Gimme me the wing and get out of the fast lane.

Burt Reynolds is dead. I want my triplane'd CTR before I get shipped to the great junkyard in the sky.



Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 18:05
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Yes it broke another FWD record, because it is a very good FWD car, but the universe expands beyond FWD.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Top Gear: Here's what seven months living with a Honda Civic Type R is like    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 18:14
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RMTRADER wrote:
....
I live in Alberta North so understand winter driving very well. The only thing AWD is going to give you is traction off the line. Otherwise, a FWD car with a good LSD and snow tires will be just as good when moving. I have an AWD car now and while it is fun to slide around parking lots in the snow, I am not doing that on the street.



I dunno, AWD with rear torque steering does a lot of interesting things.

Indeed, FWD ATTS was better than an LSD. It made an LSD pretty much into an ON/OFF affair, whereas ATTS, being proactive, was transparent and the car was always neutral.

If there were one single upgrade that I'd like to see for the CTR, is for an ATTS system instead of an LSD.



 
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