[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
All-New 2019 Honda Passport Starts Adventure with Global Debut in Los Angeles
More.......................
2019 CR-V goes on sale with few changes, nominal price increase
More.......................
2019 Honda Civic Type R and Civic Hatchback Accelerate into Dealerships
More.......................
American Honda Reports October Sales
More.......................
Honda Rugged Open Air Vehicle Concept Debuts at 2018 SEMA Show
More.......................
SEMA: Graham Rahal Injects Style, Power and Performance to Custom Acura RDX A-Spec
More.......................
NSX GT3 Evo To Compete Globally in 2019
More.......................
2019 Acura ILX Arrives with Dynamic New Styling, Major Technology Upgrades and New A-Spec Treatment
More.......................
CR-V --> Re: Oil Contamination in CRV's and Civic's with the 1.5T
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: 2020 Corolla Revealed
Join Discussion......
Fuel Cell Technology --> Re: Hydrogen Power coming back into focus?
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: 2019 Acura/Honda Debuts
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Honda' new BEV
Join Discussion......
Fuel Cell Technology --> Re: Unexpected Low Coolant warning/service
Join Discussion......
Civic --> Re: 2019 Civic MPG Down
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Interview Max Verstappen on F1 and Watches & the new TAG Heuer Verstappen Edition
Join Discussion......
CR-Z --> Re: Honda's Biggest Mistake? Why Now Is The Time To Buy The Misunderstood CR-Z
Join Discussion......
RDX --> Re: 2019 Advance Squeaks and Camera Issues
Join Discussion......
CR-V --> Re: CR-V Hybrid
Join Discussion......
TSX --> Re: TSX Sportwagon - rear washer not squirting
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Hyundai Veloster N starts at $27,785
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: 2019 Mazda CX-5 Turbo
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: F1 - 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Spoilers
Join Discussion......
2019 Acura NSX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura ILX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura ILX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Honda Pilot
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Pilot PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Honda Insight
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > Strictly Technical > > Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1]
Author
  Post New Thread
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2018 15:06
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
For the 2000-2005 S2000s, as I understand it the 'hacked' K-series ECUs available on the market are Hondata's KPro (utilizing a PRB ECU from a RSX Type-S) and Doctronic's ProECU-S2K unit from Austria.

Obviously on our side of the pond, Hondata has more clout but their solution requires either a conversion harness/board or swapping out the crank and TDC sensor/wheels whereas the Doctronic kit is complete plug and play including correct output for ECTs. I am also unfamiliar with Doctronic's software.

Maybe this is more of a question for Shawn and other vehicle calibrators out there, but I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations on which one to go for or personal experience using both.

typer_801
Profile for typer_801
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2018 17:24
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I'm not an expert on this, but have been researching on my own too, so curious the feedback....considering options as a I contemplate a Kraftwerks blower install :)

My own cursory investigation has led me to understand the plug-n-play KPro is a really good option, but is exceedingly expensive IMO at $2499. The Doctronics is considerably cheaper at $1399, but I'm told has much more primitive software. Still does the stuff you need, but not as advanced as Hondata, maybe be a little more limited.

There are the standby's too, AEM EMS and Infinity. The EMS V2 has a PnP version which is roughly the same cost at the Doctronics (~$1499) and the Infinity is that PLUS a $350 harness.

There's also the AEM EMS V4 which is only $600 and with a Boomslang harness (another $500) can bring you in a little cheaper than the V2.

My biggest concern honestly, is the inability to use the simple, but very effective Hondata Traction Control system with anything other than the pricey Hondata system. With over 400 whp (in a Kraftwerks blown S2K), I think that would be a very, very nice mod to prevent me from making my YouTube debut crashing after leaving a cars-n-coffee or something similar.


notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2018 02:10
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I have the kpro in my AP1. And I have tuned a few Doctronix ECUs.

The Doc is undoubtedly cheaper and easier. The software is several generations behind Hondata's though. And the feature set is more limited.

If you're planning on paying a professional to tune your car, and you have a relatively simple setup (moderate boost - especially supercharged, stock engine, street ap), then the Doc setup is perfectly acceptable.


If you're going for something more advanced (and/or planning to do it yourself) like a high boost setup, multi-fuels, ITBs, etc then the feature set of the Hondata and quality of the sw is worth it.


For a dedicated race car I would also think strongly about the AEM Infinity, or, if you have a big budget, MoTeC.


SC

RTypezCivic
Profile for RTypezCivic
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2018 09:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I've been running an AEM series 2 in my 01 for about 3 years now. I had the car tuned by Evans Tuning. I do drive this car on the street. I live in NJ so every 2 years I have to swap my factory ECU back into the car drive it for 50 miles or so get it inspected and swap the AEM back in. I can tell you this, once the car is warmed up I can's tell there's a stand alone. But when starting it has extended crank times especially in weather colder then 50*. Its not really a major problem for me because I don't really drive the car past November and don't start driving the car again till March.

I'd link the dyno on Evan's Tuning site but he still hasn't set up his tuning database. But just FYI the car made 222HP at 8500rpm and 144 lbft at 6400rpm. it has BC stage 2 cams. 74mm throttle body with port matched manifold, Ballade sports Header and cat delete. Putting a 2.4 stroker kit over this winter. so hopefully ill see somewhere around 280hp and 200 lbft of torque after that.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2018 12:05
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I have heard that the K-ecu based solutions start like stock, which isn't something guaranteed for the standalone models.

So all that being said, it sounds like mild NA or supercharged applications can utilize the Doctronics solution, whereas if you're doing something more extensive you might as well do the Hondata solution since there is a good chance you're going to be working on the cylinder head/front engine cover anyways (and if you're putting that much work in, dropping $200 for a used PRB ecu isn't really tough). You'll probably also be utilizing a wideband sensor as a secondary at least?

I am looking at the Kpro adapter harness solution from Ballade and am wondering why Hondata does not officially support it (at least on their website)? It appears similar in concept to the Doctronic adapter harness with a mag to hall effect adapter.

Cyisalwayshungry
Profile for Cyisalwayshungry
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2018 12:25
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
At what point (bolt on modifications) would tuning for a NA be worth it?
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2018 12:31
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CarPhreakD wrote:
I have heard that the K-ecu based solutions start like stock, which isn't something guaranteed for the standalone models.

So all that being said, it sounds like mild NA or supercharged applications can utilize the Doctronics solution, whereas if you're doing something more extensive you might as well do the Hondata solution since there is a good chance you're going to be working on the cylinder head/front engine cover anyways (and if you're putting that much work in, dropping $200 for a used PRB ecu isn't really tough). You'll probably also be utilizing a wideband sensor as a secondary at least?

I am looking at the Kpro adapter harness solution from Ballade and am wondering why Hondata does not officially support it (at least on their website)? It appears similar in concept to the Doctronic adapter harness with a mag to hall effect adapter.



It's probably just a case of resources/return on investment. The S2000 market is pretty saturated, with a huge number of cars already modified. Most would probably choose a stand alone system if they're going for serious mods, and Honda probably doesn't sell all that many S2000 Kpros anymore anyways. They're very busy working on all the turbo applications right now.

SC

Cyisalwayshungry
Profile for Cyisalwayshungry
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2018 16:02
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
notyper wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
I have heard that the K-ecu based solutions start like stock, which isn't something guaranteed for the standalone models.

So all that being said, it sounds like mild NA or supercharged applications can utilize the Doctronics solution, whereas if you're doing something more extensive you might as well do the Hondata solution since there is a good chance you're going to be working on the cylinder head/front engine cover anyways (and if you're putting that much work in, dropping $200 for a used PRB ecu isn't really tough). You'll probably also be utilizing a wideband sensor as a secondary at least?

I am looking at the Kpro adapter harness solution from Ballade and am wondering why Hondata does not officially support it (at least on their website)? It appears similar in concept to the Doctronic adapter harness with a mag to hall effect adapter.



It's probably just a case of resources/return on investment. The S2000 market is pretty saturated, with a huge number of cars already modified. Most would probably choose a stand alone system if they're going for serious mods, and Honda probably doesn't sell all that many S2000 Kpros anymore anyways. They're very busy working on all the turbo applications right now.

SC



Is doctronics worth it on a mostly stock AP1? I just got an AP1 w/ low miles (50k) and deciding if tuning it and some minor bolt ons (HFC etc) would be worth it.


CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Pre-DWB S2000 Engine Management    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-17-2018 16:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Define "worth". Naturally aspirated bolt-ons on the F20/22 aren't going to give you many gains. I think maybe 20hp with a properly paired intake and exhaust header, with lowered VTEC point and some driveability improvements is all you can expect. Not really worth the $2000 or so in my opinion since that doesn't move the needle much beyond the regular S2000 "experience" for potential downsides like annoying droning during cruise and the like.

Forced induction on the other hand, makes the car substantially different- though the more power you make, the more stuff you need to buy to support that power level (axles, brakes, diff, etc. where DWB cars and standalone ECUs start to make sense). A mildly supercharged kit sounds to me like the best compromise for ease, enjoyment and reliability.

Unfortunately the S2K engine doesn't have as much room in it as the K-series (with VCT) for simple big power bolt-on gains.


 
Thread Page - [1]
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
29 mobile: 0