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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars

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HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-16-2018 20:55
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"The findings, among the more bearish ones around, show that while electric cars are emission-free on the road, they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide that conventional cars do.

Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74 percent more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it’s made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls’ findings.

Yet regulators haven’t set out clear guidelines on acceptable carbon emissions over the life cycle of electric cars, even as the likes of China, France and the U.K. move toward outright bans of combustion engines."



Hmmm, maybe the TOV skeptics were right all along. LoL


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/the-dirt-on-clean-electric-cars

qingcong
Profile for qingcong
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 11:14
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What the article also mentions is the possibility that electric cars can get cleaner with the use of renewables to manufacture the car. Gas cars don't have the potential to be zero emissions in the entire life cycle, while there is at least a ghost chance with electric cars. I mean, that's really the battle we are facing - can we produce clean energy to solve our issues quickly enough?
Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 11:40
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HondaForever wrote:
"The findings, among the more bearish ones around, show that while electric cars are emission-free on the road, they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide that conventional cars do.

Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74 percent more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it’s made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls’ findings.

Yet regulators haven’t set out clear guidelines on acceptable carbon emissions over the life cycle of electric cars, even as the likes of China, France and the U.K. move toward outright bans of combustion engines."



Hmmm, maybe the TOV skeptics were right all along. LoL


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/the-dirt-on-clean-electric-cars



Pretty big caveat.

And...I mean...DUH.

But electric cars aren’t as clean as they could be. Just switching to renewable energy for manufacturing would slash emissions by 65 percent, according to Transport & Environment. In Norway, where hydro-electric energy powers practically the entire grid, the Berylls study showed electric cars generate nearly 60 percent less CO2 over their lifetime, compared with even the most efficient fuel-powered vehicles.

So - here is what is dumb: leave out global warming - just forget about it and answer this question:

Why isn't the US positioning itself as a leader in battery production (and clean energy)?

It's an obvious growth opportunity - instead we're going to let China and Thailand and Poland make all these batteries?

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 13:50
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The US is actually doing OK on clean energy: wind power (second only to China), natural gas and actually one of the highest levels of battery exports- second only to the ASEAN and actually a bit ahead of China. Although the issue is more of the raw materials like lithium.

China, however, is the undisputed leader in solar panel production and the US cannot compete strictly because of costs (I think that's OK). And if the US cedes lithium deposits to China this will be troublesome in the future.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 13:55
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HondaForever wrote:
"The findings, among the more bearish ones around, show that while electric cars are emission-free on the road, they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide that conventional cars do.

Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74 percent more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it’s made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls’ findings.

Yet regulators haven’t set out clear guidelines on acceptable carbon emissions over the life cycle of electric cars, even as the likes of China, France and the U.K. move toward outright bans of combustion engines."



Hmmm, maybe the TOV skeptics were right all along. LoL


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/the-dirt-on-clean-electric-cars



This article was already discussed by Jeff:

https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1368598

And it's pretty simple to see what the effect on total vehicle lifecycle emissions is when you use the car in clean energy places:



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 14:40
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HondaForever wrote:
"The findings, among the more bearish ones around, show that while electric cars are emission-free on the road, they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide that conventional cars do.

Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74 percent more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it’s made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls’ findings.

Yet regulators haven’t set out clear guidelines on acceptable carbon emissions over the life cycle of electric cars, even as the likes of China, France and the U.K. move toward outright bans of combustion engines."



Hmmm, maybe the TOV skeptics were right all along. LoL


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/the-dirt-on-clean-electric-cars



Let me guess... the Socialist Totalitarian Governments want to control the movement of their population.

What better way to do so than by pushing everyone to mass transit and short range vehicles.

"May I see you travel papers?"

This has NOTHING to do with the environment, it has everything to do with CONTROL.

The top 0.001% of the population, the Party heads, control everything, the rest get oily gin.

1984.



CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 15:10
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There's currently no border checks within the current Schengen zone, which means if I want to, I can travel between Germany, Switzerland, France, and Italy within the span of a few hours (tolls/vignette of course, are a separate cost).

I can also do the same thing via airplane or train, both of which are functional and typically more or less on time.

I can also speed however much I want in certain A-class sections of roadway, and 130 km/h elsewhere.

Meanwhile, I have to show my Nexus card (and occasionally, my passport and visa; very occasionally, I get pulled in for a 'compliance check') twice a day to get to and from work. Top speed in Michigan is 70 mph with cops littering the only good highway sections in Metro-Detroit, where people are not artificially slowed down by creaking infrastructure. This is exacerbated by poorly trained drivers- but, everybody needs a car, because there is no such thing as public transit. Who is free, exactly?


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 17:28
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CarPhreakD wrote:
There's currently no border checks within the current Schengen zone, which means if I want to, I can travel between Germany, Switzerland, France, and Italy within the span of a few hours (tolls/vignette of course, are a separate cost).

I can also do the same thing via airplane or train, both of which are functional and typically more or less on time.

I can also speed however much I want in certain A-class sections of roadway, and 130 km/h elsewhere.

Meanwhile, I have to show my Nexus card (and occasionally, my passport and visa; very occasionally, I get pulled in for a 'compliance check') twice a day to get to and from work. Top speed in Michigan is 70 mph with cops littering the only good highway sections in Metro-Detroit, where people are not artificially slowed down by creaking infrastructure. This is exacerbated by poorly trained drivers- but, everybody needs a car, because there is no such thing as public transit. Who is free, exactly?




My point is reacting to the calls by the UK, France and China to ban ICE powered cars. If they do, kiss goodbye using those roads.

With an ICE powered car and cash I can pretty much go anywhere. I may have to do the speed limit and deal with those corrupt Oregon State Police troopers ( "compliance checks on California licences") but pretty much I can go 1200 miles in one long day.

I have the FREEDOM of getting in my car and driving it. At my choice and discretion.

If we were to ban ICE powered cars, having only BEVs with piss poor range, then you would not have the FREEDOM of driving long distances at your discretion.

Getting into mass transit is inconvenient and easily controlled. Have you ever been patted down simultaneously by overzealous TSA agents because you forgot to pull your RFI shielded wallet from your pants? "Sir, please hold up your pants"... no shoes, no belt, pants falling... Thank God I have good taste in boxer shorts.

TSA check points are a very good way to controlling the movement of the population.

Sure, ICE powered automobiles are not the most efficient for long distances, but we have them.

Questions:
Why do you get pulled over for 'compliance check'?
Why do you need to provide you Nexus card twice a day?

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 17:31
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Because I live in Canada and work in the US.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-19-2018 17:39
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Because I live in Canada and work in the US.


Then, I suggest you move to Michigan or get a job in Canada.

If you move to Michigan, you will be able to drive non stop from Michigan to Calimexistan without worrying about showing your ID to the Authorities.

If you stay in Canada, you will be able to drive to BC also without need to show ID to the authorities.

If they ban ICE in the UK, France and China, the only way to travel from London to Liverpool, Paris to Biarritz, etc... will be by TSA-like controlled mass transit... since your BEV won't have nowhere the range.

It will be no longer a matter of traversing across "nation states", but of travelling within a single nation state.



Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-20-2018 07:00
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With cameras everywhere and a move towards toll roads, we here are apparently the most surveilled nation on Earth.

Anyway, the gridlock means it's difficult to run away from Big Brother's henchmen.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-22-2018 20:38
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Nick GravesX wrote:
With cameras everywhere and a move towards toll roads, we here are apparently the most surveilled nation on Earth.

Anyway, the gridlock means it's difficult to run away from Big Brother's henchmen.



Ingsoc

Kiss your cars goodbye.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-23-2018 04:20
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TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
With cameras everywhere and a move towards toll roads, we here are apparently the most surveilled nation on Earth.

Anyway, the gridlock means it's difficult to run away from Big Brother's henchmen.



Ingsoc

Kiss your cars goodbye.



George Orwell got the date slightly wrong, but yes.


 
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