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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans

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bnilhome
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First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 13:53
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So Ford announced they were getting out of the sedan market in the US a while back, and now Nissan plans to do the same starting in Europe in Russia. With an abundance of data showing consumers are moving away from sedans in favor of SUVs, should Honda/Acura ditch SOME sedans in favor of more SUVs?

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/09/nissans-ford-gets-passenger-car-game-europe/

Fitdad put together some excellent stats below on the trend lines for sedans and SUVs. Thanks Fitdad for that research.

Total Passenger Car Sales 2010-2017:

2010: 5.6 million
2011: 6.1 million
2012: 7.2 million
2013: 7.5 million
2014: 7.6 million
2015: 7.5 million
2016: 6.8 million
2017: 6.1 million

Total Light Truck Sales 2010-2017:

2010: 5.9 million
2011: 6.6 million
2012: 7.2 million
2013: 8.0 million
2014: 8.8 million
2015: 9.9 million
2016: 10.6 million
2017: 11.1 million

longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 13:58
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I have stated before, some here may not like what the Accord morphs into in one or two generations if trends continue.
lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 15:12
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This does not mean anything and is nowhere near the same as Ford dropping US sedans. Nissan is dropping 2 compact car sales in Europe/Russia, the Euro Pulsar is a compact hatchback, the Almera is a POS compact sedan that went into production in 2013 and never caught on. It is not like they are dropping traditional family sedans which they never had success with in Europe or Russia in the first place. Nissan sedan sales in Europe have always sucked and have been basically non existent for a while, they don't make cars/sedans Europeans want, they haven't in decades so this is not some trend. Infiniti is pretty much non existent in Europe too, Lexus barely sells in Europe. Totally different markets.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 15:39
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This might be the last Accord.

Next Civic expanding(Si getting 2.0t).Next Civic is being designed in Japan instead of Ohio.

TLX will be in the 3.0t class.

RLX in Tesla class.


rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 16:47
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Given the current trends, it wouldn't surprise me if the Accord indeed went away. Sad, but totally possible. I don't think it would 'morph' into anything as someone above suggested. Honda has the Pilot, CRV, HRV and also the upcoming new crossover. The Civic is selling better, and therefore probably stands a better chance of sticking around.
None
Profile for None
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 17:39
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Who buys Nissan sedans other than Hertz?
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 18:30
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RolledaNsx wrote:
This might be the last Accord.

Next Civic expanding(Si getting 2.0t).Next Civic is being designed in Japan instead of Ohio.

TLX will be in the 3.0t class.

RLX in Tesla class.




First Accord was back in '76.

It was INSTANT CREDIBILITY for Honda.

Dropping the Accord name will be infinitely worse than dropping the Legend name.

KyDave95
Profile for KyDave95
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 18:30
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RolledaNsx wrote:
This might be the last Accord.

Next Civic expanding(Si getting 2.0t).Next Civic is being designed in Japan instead of Ohio.

TLX will be in the 3.0t class.

RLX in Tesla class.




Hey Rolled,

I would be pretty stunned if the Accord name went away anytime soon. The name alone has so much positive recognition associated with it! I forget how many times that car has made C&D's 10 Best list...

Even if we ever got to the point where it seemed like almost no one wanted what we traditionally think of as a "car", I would think Honda would try to find a way to keep the Accord name. But also, it's hard for me to imagine that there won't continue to be a meaningful portion of buyers that do want a more traditional car. Even if the number of competitors in the sedan segments are reduced, I just can't imagine the names Accord, Civic, Camry, or Corolla not being in there somewhere! :)

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 18:35
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KyDave95 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
This might be the last Accord.

Next Civic expanding(Si getting 2.0t).Next Civic is being designed in Japan instead of Ohio.

TLX will be in the 3.0t class.

RLX in Tesla class.




Hey Rolled,

I would be pretty stunned if the Accord name went away anytime soon. The name alone has so much positive recognition associated with it! I forget how many times that car has made C&D's 10 Best list...

Even if we ever got to the point where it seemed like almost no one wanted what we traditionally think of as a "car", I would think Honda would try to find a way to keep the Accord name. But also, it's hard for me to imagine that there won't continue to be a meaningful portion of buyers that do want a more traditional car. Even if the number of competitors in the sedan segments are reduced, I just can't imagine the names Accord, Civic, Camry, or Corolla not being in there somewhere! :)



Hmm, a somewhat tall -not too tall- CUV like station wagon with SH-AWD and a 2.0T with DCT.

I could go for that.

Then the TLX could be just a little bit bigger with the 3.0T.



KyDave95
Profile for KyDave95
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 18:45
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TonyEX wrote:

Hmm, a somewhat tall -not too tall- CUV like station wagon with SH-AWD and a 2.0T with DCT.

I could go for that.

Then the TLX could be just a little bit bigger with the 3.0T.





Perhaps a better-executed version of the Crosstour???

Rgist85
Profile for Rgist85
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 18:57
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Even though I haven't owned an Accord since 2014, I cannot imagine the Accord just going away.

I'll believe it when I see it. The Civic SI should have had the 2.0t regardless of the Accord getting it or not. The Civic just does not have the overall execution, materials or refinement of the Accord. Perhaps what Honda might do is offer the traditional Accord for those consumers who still prefer a sedan and then offer another version of the Crosstour (with nicer styling this time) lifted to take on the Outback and "Fusion" crossover that is rumored so the economies of scale allow Honda to continue the Accord name.

With Ford and FCA dropping out of the sedan race, Honda should be able to pick up the pieces. Afterall, the Minivan market has dropped significantly but I can't see Honda walking away from the Oddysey either.

The Accord will live on.


Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 19:10
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RolledaNsx wrote:
This might be the last Accord.

Next Civic expanding(Si getting 2.0t).Next Civic is being designed in Japan instead of Ohio.

TLX will be in the 3.0t class.

RLX in Tesla class.



Personal knowledgeable feeling, or insider info? Or a mix of both?

That would make sense why they ré started to sell the new Insight (will replace Accord Hybrid).


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 19:22
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KyDave95 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Hmm, a somewhat tall -not too tall- CUV like station wagon with SH-AWD and a 2.0T with DCT.

I could go for that.

Then the TLX could be just a little bit bigger with the 3.0T.





Perhaps a better-executed version of the Crosstour???



Interesting... I recall I was going to post my impressions of two months in a Crosstour AWD V6.

It drove really well, it didn't feel heavy, it tooks turns quite well.

It also felt extremely wide because the sides of the car were a lot wider than the width at the window beltline ( the sides stuck out ).

And it was hard to figure out where the back end was (this has been solved by the wide spread use of rear view cameras).

The rear cargo was not as big as it should have been... and the car looked like it was up on stilts.

Yes, a well executed Crosstour.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 19:30
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So, VW is killing off the Beetle. Brand icons can die. It isn't unheard of...

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 19:53
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I can assure you the Camry and Accord will be the last cars standing... They aren't going anywhere. There are plenty of people that will never want a crossover or SUV. Count me in that bunch.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 19:58
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Accord is pretty much a NA Market only model.

Civic/Accord is about the same size now too.

So in the next Gen. Civic give it 2.0t in Si and Type-R.

I thinking they are planning to have the new 3.0T TLX to replace the top models of the Accord and add a 2.0T to Civic Si to replace lower model Accords.The TLX will have a HEV version too.

HDNBenjamin
Profile for HDNBenjamin
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 21:48
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I highly doubt the Accord will ever go away. The name plate of the Accord is too valuable. It would be a huge mistake to drop the Accord.

It is true that sedan sales have been declining, but it would be a big mistake if Honda ever follow the footsteps of Ford. The answer to a shift in trend among consumers is to have a balanced portfolio of products. This would enable Honda to leverage their portfolio mix to ramp up production of higher demand models and ramp down lower demand models. At the same time, it would allow Honda to reverse order should the trend change. Ford putting all of their eggs in one basket is a risky move, especially if things change and it sure will. Also, Ford and Nissan dropping sedans would only help Honda. Less competition in the sedan market!

Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 22:11
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Accord is pretty much a NA Market only model.

Civic/Accord is about the same size now too.

So in the next Gen. Civic give it 2.0t in Si and Type-R.

I thinking they are planning to have the new 3.0T TLX to replace the top models of the Accord and add a 2.0T to Civic Si to replace lower model Accords.The TLX will have a HEV version too.


Makes sense. The European and Japanese market already missed out the Accord, and for SE Asia, sedans are used as "status symbol", so even if it didn't sell as much as MPV or SUV, aspiring middle class always want to have a sedan. The tenth generation Civic is gaining a lot of traction in my country, obviously daring design and premium content sells sedans... Hey who knew (sarcastically).

The Accord is still on the old model, and actually we didn't get any confirmation if the Accord is getting updated or not. Still, the idea of having Civic replacing the Accord is not that bad of a trade. At the very least, the Civic is quite loaded with upscale amenities.

However, with diminishing returns on sedans, especially with Acura being a limited market venture, my question would be, will Acura go global?

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 22:13
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RolledaNsx wrote:
This might be the last Accord.





MSZ
Profile for MSZ
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 22:16
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They are moving 13k Accords per month in China. 30k per month if you combine all N.American markets. I don't think Accord is going anywhere.
Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 22:19
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KyDave95 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Hmm, a somewhat tall -not too tall- CUV like station wagon with SH-AWD and a 2.0T with DCT.

I could go for that.

Then the TLX could be just a little bit bigger with the 3.0T.





Perhaps a better-executed version of the Crosstour???



I could see it being a wagon, a mix of Imprezza and Outback sort of flavor. Like you said, a better cross-trek :P.

Or maybe let it be a large 2/ 3 door coupe with a rear hatch? Sorta like the old Aerodeck



I don't think the Accord will die until maybe two more generations from now.

KyDave95
Profile for KyDave95
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 23:42
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TonyEX wrote:
Interesting... I recall I was going to post my impressions of two months in a Crosstour AWD V6.

It drove really well, it didn't feel heavy, it tooks turns quite well.

It also felt extremely wide because the sides of the car were a lot wider than the width at the window beltline ( the sides stuck out ).

And it was hard to figure out where the back end was (this has been solved by the wide spread use of rear view cameras).

The rear cargo was not as big as it should have been... and the car looked like it was up on stilts.

Yes, a well executed Crosstour.


The Acura ZDX just popped into my head also...did you ever get a chance to drive one of those? There aren't too many Honda or Acura models that I haven't driven at some point, but I actually never got a chance to sample either the Crosstour or the ZDX. Was the ZDX basically a really upscale version of the Crosstour??

My mom bought a Subaru Crosstrek this past spring, so I've had a chance to really experience Subaru-ness for the first time. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Honda took the dimensions of a Civic Hatchback and created a good Crosstrek competitor out of it. I guess the HR-V could also be seen as a competitor to the Crosstrek, but they feel like very different vehicles to me...


KyDave95
Profile for KyDave95
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2018 23:56
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Hondatalover wrote:

I could see it being a wagon, a mix of Imprezza and Outback sort of flavor. Like you said, a better cross-trek :P.



Are you thinking Crosstour, as in Honda, or Crosstrek, as in Subaru? :)

When I responded to Tony, I was actually thinking Crosstour, but not only would I like to see a better executed Crosstour, I would also like to see Honda offer a competitor to the Crosstrek!

giltibo
Profile for giltibo
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2018 00:35
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...Actually, the lead plant for the Civic, worldwide is... HCM (Honda Canada Mfg.) - Don't forget that the Civic has not been offered in Japan for a few years now...
NorCalSales
Profile for NorCalSales
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2018 00:35
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None wrote:
Who buys Nissan sedans other than Hertz?


Enterprise?

HDNBenjamin
Profile for HDNBenjamin
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2018 00:42
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NorCalSales wrote:
None wrote:
Who buys Nissan sedans other than Hertz?


Enterprise?


LOL! Alamo?

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2018 01:05
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giltibo wrote:
...Actually, the lead plant for the Civic, worldwide is... HCM (Honda Canada Mfg.) - Don't forget that the Civic has not been offered in Japan for a few years now...


Civic is sold in Japan.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2018 07:13
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RolledaNsx wrote:
giltibo wrote:
...Actually, the lead plant for the Civic, worldwide is... HCM (Honda Canada Mfg.) - Don't forget that the Civic has not been offered in Japan for a few years now...


Civic is sold in Japan.




Well, Civic is back in Japan. It did go away for a while, which seemed to me a shocking indication of where the market is going.

As shocking as the Accord going away. But don't confuse volume with profits - margins are generally thin/non-existent in non-premium Ds.

Since sedans tend to be 'prestige' purchases, the idea of a decent TLX (Acura?) better to compete with the true premiums, with a Civic/Insight just below might make sense.

There seems to be no end to the tendency for cars to get too big for their own market and to be dropped, whilst a new small car is slotted in below. The VW Up! being approximately the size of a MK1 Golf/Rabbit being a case in point. How long before the Passat disappears?

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2018 13:39
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I agree with the sentiment in here that the Accord should be the last Honda sedan standing if they follow the market trends of shrinking the number of sedans in the portfolio.

I am curious what this trend will do for Acura who already has a small portfolio. Perhaps just have the TLX and bring back a true flagship in the legend, and focus on building more SUVs.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: First Ford, now Nissan dropping Sedans    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2018 13:53
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Nick GravesX wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
giltibo wrote:
...Actually, the lead plant for the Civic, worldwide is... HCM (Honda Canada Mfg.) - Don't forget that the Civic has not been offered in Japan for a few years now...


Civic is sold in Japan.




Well, Civic is back in Japan. It did go away for a while, which seemed to me a shocking indication of where the market is going.

As shocking as the Accord going away. But don't confuse volume with profits - margins are generally thin/non-existent in non-premium Ds.

Since sedans tend to be 'prestige' purchases, the idea of a decent TLX (Acura?) better to compete with the true premiums, with a Civic/Insight just below might make sense.

There seems to be no end to the tendency for cars to get too big for their own market and to be dropped, whilst a new small car is slotted in below. The VW Up! being approximately the size of a MK1 Golf/Rabbit being a case in point. How long before the Passat disappears?



The Accord is still selling well over 350K cars in the US. I don't know how many more in Canada.

That's a LOT of cars.

And with the competition shriveling, it looks like the only sedans that will last are likely the best two: Accord and Camry.


 
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