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TOV Forums > Civic > > Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?

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KaySee
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Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 08:45
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With the Civic refresh updates coming in and those small spoiler CTR mules we've seen pictures of I wanted to gauge peoples thoughts on the odds of an "SiR" hatch releasing. I've seen a few other members put forward their ideas on how this car could be configured. Everything seems to be along the same lines which would make for a great middle ground between the Si and the Type R.

A hatch with the detuned Type R powertrain from the accord. Maybe making 255-265hp on premium gas. The smaller Si looking spoiler and it can run with the HFP Si suspension or even the stock Si suspension without the more expensive Type R components. In Canada it can be another variant of the touring trim since the Si is already running with a bunch of touring options. I have a few other specifics in mind but that's the gist of it.

In Canada there is a 10-12K gap between the Si and CTR so there is room for a model like this. This would be great to go against a car like the Veloster N for example.

I'd prefer a well equipped SiR to a stripped down Type R personally. But that's me. What do people think the odds are on something like this happening? 0%? 60%? 100%? For me, I feel since they may be testing a different variant of the hatch and with new gens of the GTI, plus the Veloster N on the way, something cheaper and higher volume than the CTR with higher performance than the Si with hatch functionality could be a good look. I'd say the odds are 15-20% from what I know. I really REALLY hope the odds are better than this but it's hard to say.

NorCalSales
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 10:19
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0%
s2ktaxi
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 10:59
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Honda can't even produce enough CTR to satisfy demand - hence the markups that many dealers are still getting. That said, I think an Si-R wouldn't be a bad idea.


LudegarH22A7
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 11:10
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My gut is telling me we will see nothing of the sort until CTR production wraps (or the final run/special edition is announced). Understandably so...

KaySee
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 11:24
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s2ktaxi wrote:
Honda can't even produce enough CTR to satisfy demand - hence the markups that many dealers are still getting. That said, I think an Si-R wouldn't be a bad idea.




I hear you. I see it more as another hatchback variant more closely related to the Si than to the Type R except for the engine. So it should be a high volume product like the current hatchbacks that are available. I know it's wishful thinking though.

KaySee
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 11:59
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LudegarH22A7 wrote:
My gut is telling me we will see nothing of the sort until CTR production wraps (or the final run/special edition is announced). Understandably so...



This could be how it goes for sure. I feel like they already have the capacity and parts to put the car together without taking anything away from the CTR. Put the Si chassis, LSD, dampers etc. in to a hatchback. Throw in the exact same accord powertrain in there as well and it's done. If they are feeling saucy throw in the HFP upgrades, but that is not necessary.

The main reason my mind went this way was because of the small spoiler Type R mules we saw. But those could easily be some wing delete option versions or maybe cheaper Type R variants. I don't think they should bother doing that for the R since it is designed with the extreme aero in mind. But it is what it is. Maybe the odds are like 2% now lol.

vh2k
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 13:19
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0% it will happen as there is no significant market demand for such a vehicle.
rev2damoon
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 14:46
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I think deep down we all know the answer to this question.
A better idea would be for Honda to make the Si the way it should have been in the first darn place...lol.

It should have been the little brother to the CTR sporting somewhere in the range of 240-250 HP. Instead it turned out being some second cousin or something with an econo/non-performance-oriented engine (don't care what the aftermarket is doing with the engine either)...
A decent sporty little ride, but lacking all character an Si should have out the box.

I truly wonder if Honda will even bother producing the Si next gen. To this day, I've seen (3)...THREE 10th gen Si on the road. I can tell you, that is simply mind boggling for the region I live in. I only started seeing them when Honda ran that lease special a while back and since then, sightings have dried up again. Makes me wonder if Honda's choking them off. The 8th gen was hugely popular here and can still be seen around in relative abundance.

But anyway...I digress...



KaySee
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 15:14
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rev2damoon wrote:
I think deep down we all know the answer to this question.
A better idea would be for Honda to make the Si the way it should have been in the first darn place...lol.

It should have been the little brother to the CTR sporting somewhere in the range of 240-250 HP. Instead it turned out being some second cousin or something with an econo/non-performance-oriented engine (don't care what the aftermarket is doing with the engine either)...
A decent sporty little ride, but lacking all character an Si should have out the box.

I truly wonder if Honda will even bother producing the Si next gen. To this day, I've seen (3)...THREE 10th gen Si on the road. I can tell you, that is simply mind boggling for the region I live in. I only started seeing them when Honda ran that lease special a while back and since then, sightings have dried up again. Makes me wonder if Honda's choking them off. The 8th gen was hugely popular here and can still be seen around in relative abundance.

But anyway...I digress...





A lot of people share your opinions for sure. As opinions go, it is definitely one of those. I'm more curious about speculation on the mule we saw being a different hatchback variant. If you don't think it is an SiR do you have any guesses? Maybe a decontented Type R? Why would they go with that smaller spoiler? All the complaints they've been getting? Seems weird to back down on that based on how successful the car has been. But I dunno maybe they got sheepish somehow. Maybe it's for an Acura product! I'm interested to see what people think still.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 15:25
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KaySee wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
I think deep down we all know the answer to this question.
A better idea would be for Honda to make the Si the way it should have been in the first darn place...lol.

It should have been the little brother to the CTR sporting somewhere in the range of 240-250 HP. Instead it turned out being some second cousin or something with an econo/non-performance-oriented engine (don't care what the aftermarket is doing with the engine either)...
A decent sporty little ride, but lacking all character an Si should have out the box.

I truly wonder if Honda will even bother producing the Si next gen. To this day, I've seen (3)...THREE 10th gen Si on the road. I can tell you, that is simply mind boggling for the region I live in. I only started seeing them when Honda ran that lease special a while back and since then, sightings have dried up again. Makes me wonder if Honda's choking them off. The 8th gen was hugely popular here and can still be seen around in relative abundance.

But anyway...I digress...





A lot of people share your opinions for sure. As opinions go, it is definitely one of those. I'm more curious about speculation on the mule we saw being a different hatchback variant. If you don't think it is an SiR do you have any guesses? Maybe a decontented Type R? Why would they go with that smaller spoiler? All the complaints they've been getting? Seems weird to back down on that based on how successful the car has been. But I dunno maybe they got sheepish somehow. Maybe it's for an Acura product! I'm interested to see what people think still.


I'm guessing that mule with the smaller spoiler is probably a lower trimmed CTR. I believe there was talk of that a while back if I'm not mistaken. Who knows? If it is testing for an Acura product, that would be a good thing. I've been a proponent for Acura throwing the CTR's bones under something in the compact CUV segment.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 15:40
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I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.

Impossible Dream
Profile for Impossible Dream
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 15:47
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KaySee, in general I agree.... I just wish they made the SI available in a Civic Sport Hatch version. I think it's sad that they waste the Si on the Coupe and Sedan when the Hatchback is the best iteration of this generations Civic (gaudy styling and all).

I just want an affordable hot hatch... why do I have to spend $40K+ CAD in order to enter that market?

The Civic Sport Hatch Touring is great and all but throw in the LSD and at least the Si engine.... Yes the Si engine isn't the best in comparison to its peers but honestly the Si Sedan/Coupe is a blast to drive. Feels more powerful than the 205 HP suggest and the nimble handling and tight steering provide for a fun little drivers car.

HONDA, make an SI Hatch!!!



Fishbulb
Profile for Fishbulb
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 21:39
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NorCalSales wrote:
0%


I wouldn't go that high.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-21-2018 22:54
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Impossible Dream wrote:
KaySee, in general I agree.... I just wish they made the SI available in a Civic Sport Hatch version. I think it's sad that they waste the Si on the Coupe and Sedan when the Hatchback is the best iteration of this generations Civic (gaudy styling and all).

I just want an affordable hot hatch... why do I have to spend $40K+ CAD in order to enter that market?

The Civic Sport Hatch Touring is great and all but throw in the LSD and at least the Si engine.... Yes the Si engine isn't the best in comparison to its peers but honestly the Si Sedan/Coupe is a blast to drive. Feels more powerful than the 205 HP suggest and the nimble handling and tight steering provide for a fun little drivers car.

HONDA, make an SI Hatch!!!





An Si hatch would have been great right off the bat. I'm closer to your opinion of the current Si as I enjoy driving that car. A hatch version would have been excellent. At least we get the sport touring in 6MT. But an Si obviously would have been better.

Honda could really make good on that omission with an SiR but the consensus seems to be there is essentially no chance. Welp, it would have been fun. I'm still looking forward to see what they do with the rest of the updates. And I'm very curious about this potential different ctr variant.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-22-2018 07:33
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KaySee wrote:
I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.


'Strongly dislike'...That's a rather odd comment. I'm assuming you mean that you'd rather see them do a hatchback/sedan "before" any CUV using the CTR chassis and engine. Understandable if that's the case.

I've gone to the dark side myself driving a compact CUV...lol. Family changes dictated as such. I've seen discussions on here recently questioning the need for these types of vehicles. Some have gone as far as asserting that cars are more than adequate and provide all the utility needed. Sorry, but nope...Not for everybody. The one thing people seem to fail to realize is that everyone's needs are different. You can't assume that all situations and needs are created equal. In my case I need a hatch and I need something slightly larger than a simple hatchback car. However, I do not NEED a midsize or large SUV. Thus, I'm in the compact CUV class.

So yeah, if Acura can match or better the driving dynamics of an X1, that would be a good thing. They have the tools readily available. It'll be interesting to see how and if they enter this class.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-22-2018 11:00
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rev2damoon wrote:
KaySee wrote:
I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.


'Strongly dislike'...That's a rather odd comment. I'm assuming you mean that you'd rather see them do a hatchback/sedan "before" any CUV using the CTR chassis and engine. Understandable if that's the case.

I've gone to the dark side myself driving a compact CUV...lol. Family changes dictated as such. I've seen discussions on here recently questioning the need for these types of vehicles. Some have gone as far as asserting that cars are more than adequate and provide all the utility needed. Sorry, but nope...Not for everybody. The one thing people seem to fail to realize is that everyone's needs are different. You can't assume that all situations and needs are created equal. In my case I need a hatch and I need something slightly larger than a simple hatchback car. However, I do not NEED a midsize or large SUV. Thus, I'm in the compact CUV class.

So yeah, if Acura can match or better the driving dynamics of an X1, that would be a good thing. They have the tools readily available. It'll be interesting to see how and if they enter this class.



Yeah I didn't want to say hate or despise so I thought that would get the point across lol. I actually do not care if they use the CTR powertrain in a CUV at any point, they can do what they want with their products. Again, the thought of a vehicle like that trying to inject some "fun" in to such an inherently unfun package I do not see the point. If you are just talking about going the RDX route, sure put a 2.0T in another CUV, the more the merrier I suppose. The RDX package seems like a great product. But for me, trying to add CTR performance to a heavier, higher centre of gravity, softer sprung, AUTOMATIC package strips so much of the character from driving a sporty car for me it is pointless. Some people may be able to derive enjoyment from that set up, even though that sounds terrible to me I understand that other people have different preferences. Like I said though, if they put a manual in something like that, having that added engagement in driving would offset enough of the character and dynamic downfalls with CUVs that I would definitely give it a chance. I was even looking at a 2011 6MT Porche Cayenne for a bit. Manuals make everything better for me(for the most part).

After a recent new addition, I am up to two kids myself. My wife drives a coupe and I drive a sedan. Like you said everyone's needs are different. My priority is still enjoying my car over its utility. We are looking to replace my wife's coupe with something with four doors once we're done going through the options. My dad drove a Prelude and then an Integra GS coupe throughout my childhood so i figure some of his family car priorities rubbed off on me. At least I'm looking at four doors tho! At this point I am not willing to sacrifice my driving enjoyment so it is easier to fit a stroller in my trunk. I'll do everything in my power to avoid purchasing a CUV/SUV. A more car like wagon/hatch would be a great compromise. And even though it would be kinda small an Si/SiR hatch would be great as well. The Accord 2.0T 6MT actually has more interior room than many of the CUV/SUVs I've tested but it would be better as a wagon with an LSD. G70 is kinda small but an option as well. I'd prefer a manual Honda with a hatch at this point(CTR is too extreme for my use case sadly, maybe if I was single with a better commute). No car is perfect, but a sports oriented Honda/Acura hatch would be pretty close to me.


rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-22-2018 12:06
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KaySee wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
KaySee wrote:
I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.


'Strongly dislike'...That's a rather odd comment. I'm assuming you mean that you'd rather see them do a hatchback/sedan "before" any CUV using the CTR chassis and engine. Understandable if that's the case.

I've gone to the dark side myself driving a compact CUV...lol. Family changes dictated as such. I've seen discussions on here recently questioning the need for these types of vehicles. Some have gone as far as asserting that cars are more than adequate and provide all the utility needed. Sorry, but nope...Not for everybody. The one thing people seem to fail to realize is that everyone's needs are different. You can't assume that all situations and needs are created equal. In my case I need a hatch and I need something slightly larger than a simple hatchback car. However, I do not NEED a midsize or large SUV. Thus, I'm in the compact CUV class.

So yeah, if Acura can match or better the driving dynamics of an X1, that would be a good thing. They have the tools readily available. It'll be interesting to see how and if they enter this class.



Yeah I didn't want to say hate or despise so I thought that would get the point across lol. I actually do not care if they use the CTR powertrain in a CUV at any point, they can do what they want with their products. Again, the thought of a vehicle like that trying to inject some "fun" in to such an inherently unfun package I do not see the point. If you are just talking about going the RDX route, sure put a 2.0T in another CUV, the more the merrier I suppose. The RDX package seems like a great product. But for me, trying to add CTR performance to a heavier, higher centre of gravity, softer sprung, AUTOMATIC package strips so much of the character from driving a sporty car for me it is pointless. Some people may be able to derive enjoyment from that set up, even though that sounds terrible to me I understand that other people have different preferences. Like I said though, if they put a manual in something like that, having that added engagement in driving would offset enough of the character and dynamic downfalls with CUVs that I would definitely give it a chance. I was even looking at a 2011 6MT Porche Cayenne for a bit. Manuals make everything better for me(for the most part).

After a recent new addition, I am up to two kids myself. My wife drives a coupe and I drive a sedan. Like you said everyone's needs are different. My priority is still enjoying my car over its utility. We are looking to replace my wife's coupe with something with four doors once we're done going through the options. My dad drove a Prelude and then an Integra GS coupe throughout my childhood so i figure some of his family car priorities rubbed off on me. At least I'm looking at four doors tho! At this point I am not willing to sacrifice my driving enjoyment so it is easier to fit a stroller in my trunk. I'll do everything in my power to avoid purchasing a CUV/SUV. A more car like wagon/hatch would be a great compromise. And even though it would be kinda small an Si/SiR hatch would be great as well. The Accord 2.0T 6MT actually has more interior room than many of the CUV/SUVs I've tested but it would be better as a wagon with an LSD. G70 is kinda small but an option as well. I'd prefer a manual Honda with a hatch at this point(CTR is too extreme for my use case sadly, maybe if I was single with a better commute). No car is perfect, but a sports oriented Honda/Acura hatch would be pretty close to me.



I do hear what you're saying and actually used to be exactly where you are. It's a delicate balance...fun vs utility. For me the X1 retains enough carlike dynamics to satisfy that need, but that obviously wouldn't hold true for everyone. It's actually more fun than my previous "car" though...lol. Crazy, but true. The engine character actually kind of reminds me of the K20Z3 from my 8th gen Si which is what I drove two cars ago. The difference is it's a boosted engine with way more torque. It'll never handle like my Si did, but that is obviously one of the tradeoffs with this type of vehicle.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-22-2018 14:19
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rev2damoon wrote:
KaySee wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
KaySee wrote:
I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.


'Strongly dislike'...That's a rather odd comment. I'm assuming you mean that you'd rather see them do a hatchback/sedan "before" any CUV using the CTR chassis and engine. Understandable if that's the case.

I've gone to the dark side myself driving a compact CUV...lol. Family changes dictated as such. I've seen discussions on here recently questioning the need for these types of vehicles. Some have gone as far as asserting that cars are more than adequate and provide all the utility needed. Sorry, but nope...Not for everybody. The one thing people seem to fail to realize is that everyone's needs are different. You can't assume that all situations and needs are created equal. In my case I need a hatch and I need something slightly larger than a simple hatchback car. However, I do not NEED a midsize or large SUV. Thus, I'm in the compact CUV class.

So yeah, if Acura can match or better the driving dynamics of an X1, that would be a good thing. They have the tools readily available. It'll be interesting to see how and if they enter this class.



Yeah I didn't want to say hate or despise so I thought that would get the point across lol. I actually do not care if they use the CTR powertrain in a CUV at any point, they can do what they want with their products. Again, the thought of a vehicle like that trying to inject some "fun" in to such an inherently unfun package I do not see the point. If you are just talking about going the RDX route, sure put a 2.0T in another CUV, the more the merrier I suppose. The RDX package seems like a great product. But for me, trying to add CTR performance to a heavier, higher centre of gravity, softer sprung, AUTOMATIC package strips so much of the character from driving a sporty car for me it is pointless. Some people may be able to derive enjoyment from that set up, even though that sounds terrible to me I understand that other people have different preferences. Like I said though, if they put a manual in something like that, having that added engagement in driving would offset enough of the character and dynamic downfalls with CUVs that I would definitely give it a chance. I was even looking at a 2011 6MT Porche Cayenne for a bit. Manuals make everything better for me(for the most part).

After a recent new addition, I am up to two kids myself. My wife drives a coupe and I drive a sedan. Like you said everyone's needs are different. My priority is still enjoying my car over its utility. We are looking to replace my wife's coupe with something with four doors once we're done going through the options. My dad drove a Prelude and then an Integra GS coupe throughout my childhood so i figure some of his family car priorities rubbed off on me. At least I'm looking at four doors tho! At this point I am not willing to sacrifice my driving enjoyment so it is easier to fit a stroller in my trunk. I'll do everything in my power to avoid purchasing a CUV/SUV. A more car like wagon/hatch would be a great compromise. And even though it would be kinda small an Si/SiR hatch would be great as well. The Accord 2.0T 6MT actually has more interior room than many of the CUV/SUVs I've tested but it would be better as a wagon with an LSD. G70 is kinda small but an option as well. I'd prefer a manual Honda with a hatch at this point(CTR is too extreme for my use case sadly, maybe if I was single with a better commute). No car is perfect, but a sports oriented Honda/Acura hatch would be pretty close to me.



I do hear what you're saying and actually used to be exactly where you are. It's a delicate balance...fun vs utility. For me the X1 retains enough carlike dynamics to satisfy that need, but that obviously wouldn't hold true for everyone. It's actually more fun than my previous "car" though...lol. Crazy, but true. The engine character actually kind of reminds me of the K20Z3 from my 8th gen Si which is what I drove two cars ago. The difference is it's a boosted engine with way more torque. It'll never handle like my Si did, but that is obviously one of the tradeoffs with this type of vehicle.



Are you referring to it being more fun than an 8th gen Si? If so that is high praise and I'm honestly glad you can enjoy it that much. If not the Si do you mind stating which car it is better than? How does it feel driving an automatic transmission daily with the car? I heard the current Beamer ones are pretty good. I have nothing against autos as a general technology, it's just for my use case I cannot seem to derive enjoyment from them for a long period of time. It's not about being able to select my own gears only, since autos let you do that. It's about the pleasure of executing a perfect, or flawed gear change and that added engagement that three pedals offer. Technology can help us so much and hinder at the same time. I agree with you it is a balance. I am clearly in the minority here but I still see it as a massive sacrifice to be sans manual. I saw an X2 at a gas station and it looked like a really nice looking hatch to me. And I like the X1s proportions as well but I just can't bite that bullet yet.

I'm still the guy with two baby seats in the back at the track(just the seats, not the babies lol). My hand may be forced eventually, by a combination of spousal pressures and limited amounts of practical, sporty, manual options left to choose from. That is a big part of the reason why you see me hoping this CTR mule is something I can justify.

rev2damoon
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-22-2018 14:36
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KaySee wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
KaySee wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
KaySee wrote:
I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.


'Strongly dislike'...That's a rather odd comment. I'm assuming you mean that you'd rather see them do a hatchback/sedan "before" any CUV using the CTR chassis and engine. Understandable if that's the case.

I've gone to the dark side myself driving a compact CUV...lol. Family changes dictated as such. I've seen discussions on here recently questioning the need for these types of vehicles. Some have gone as far as asserting that cars are more than adequate and provide all the utility needed. Sorry, but nope...Not for everybody. The one thing people seem to fail to realize is that everyone's needs are different. You can't assume that all situations and needs are created equal. In my case I need a hatch and I need something slightly larger than a simple hatchback car. However, I do not NEED a midsize or large SUV. Thus, I'm in the compact CUV class.

So yeah, if Acura can match or better the driving dynamics of an X1, that would be a good thing. They have the tools readily available. It'll be interesting to see how and if they enter this class.



Yeah I didn't want to say hate or despise so I thought that would get the point across lol. I actually do not care if they use the CTR powertrain in a CUV at any point, they can do what they want with their products. Again, the thought of a vehicle like that trying to inject some "fun" in to such an inherently unfun package I do not see the point. If you are just talking about going the RDX route, sure put a 2.0T in another CUV, the more the merrier I suppose. The RDX package seems like a great product. But for me, trying to add CTR performance to a heavier, higher centre of gravity, softer sprung, AUTOMATIC package strips so much of the character from driving a sporty car for me it is pointless. Some people may be able to derive enjoyment from that set up, even though that sounds terrible to me I understand that other people have different preferences. Like I said though, if they put a manual in something like that, having that added engagement in driving would offset enough of the character and dynamic downfalls with CUVs that I would definitely give it a chance. I was even looking at a 2011 6MT Porche Cayenne for a bit. Manuals make everything better for me(for the most part).

After a recent new addition, I am up to two kids myself. My wife drives a coupe and I drive a sedan. Like you said everyone's needs are different. My priority is still enjoying my car over its utility. We are looking to replace my wife's coupe with something with four doors once we're done going through the options. My dad drove a Prelude and then an Integra GS coupe throughout my childhood so i figure some of his family car priorities rubbed off on me. At least I'm looking at four doors tho! At this point I am not willing to sacrifice my driving enjoyment so it is easier to fit a stroller in my trunk. I'll do everything in my power to avoid purchasing a CUV/SUV. A more car like wagon/hatch would be a great compromise. And even though it would be kinda small an Si/SiR hatch would be great as well. The Accord 2.0T 6MT actually has more interior room than many of the CUV/SUVs I've tested but it would be better as a wagon with an LSD. G70 is kinda small but an option as well. I'd prefer a manual Honda with a hatch at this point(CTR is too extreme for my use case sadly, maybe if I was single with a better commute). No car is perfect, but a sports oriented Honda/Acura hatch would be pretty close to me.



I do hear what you're saying and actually used to be exactly where you are. It's a delicate balance...fun vs utility. For me the X1 retains enough carlike dynamics to satisfy that need, but that obviously wouldn't hold true for everyone. It's actually more fun than my previous "car" though...lol. Crazy, but true. The engine character actually kind of reminds me of the K20Z3 from my 8th gen Si which is what I drove two cars ago. The difference is it's a boosted engine with way more torque. It'll never handle like my Si did, but that is obviously one of the tradeoffs with this type of vehicle.



Are you referring to it being more fun than an 8th gen Si? If so that is high praise and I'm honestly glad you can enjoy it that much. If not the Si do you mind stating which car it is better than? How does it feel driving an automatic transmission daily with the car? I heard the current Beamer ones are pretty good. I have nothing against autos as a general technology, it's just for my use case I cannot seem to derive enjoyment from them for a long period of time. It's not about being able to select my own gears only, since autos let you do that. It's about the pleasure of executing a perfect, or flawed gear change and that added engagement that three pedals offer. Technology can help us so much and hinder at the same time. I agree with you it is a balance. I am clearly in the minority here but I still see it as a massive sacrifice to be sans manual. I saw an X2 at a gas station and it looked like a really nice looking hatch to me. And I like the X1s proportions as well but I just can't bite that bullet yet.

I'm still the guy with two baby seats in the back at the track(just the seats, not the babies lol). My hand may be forced eventually, by a combination of spousal pressures and limited amounts of practical, sporty, manual options left to choose from. That is a big part of the reason why you see me hoping this CTR mule is something I can justify.


lol...Nah KaySee. More fun than my 'last' car. The Si was "two" cars ago like I said. Do the math man.:-)
Last car was Fusion BTW.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-22-2018 15:14
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Just checking! Wasn't sure if you had a fever or not. Can never be too careful. :P
Design
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-23-2018 11:51
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NorCalSales wrote:
0%


I agree. The new trim arrangement suggests the Si will remain right where it is. Only now it will be the only couple/sedan available with the 1.5T & 6MT. Smart move by Honda to eliminate trim confusion, IMHO.

I think the hatch trims will remain the same. Though we still might see a "base" CTR creep into the mix.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-28-2018 16:15
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Design wrote:
NorCalSales wrote:
0%


I agree. The new trim arrangement suggests the Si will remain right where it is. Only now it will be the only couple/sedan available with the 1.5T & 6MT. Smart move by Honda to eliminate trim confusion, IMHO.

I think the hatch trims will remain the same. Though we still might see a "base" CTR creep into the mix.



What would a base type r look like? 18inch wheels? Halogen lights? No navigation and downgraded stereo? I'm trying to think of all the things they could take away to reduce costs without changing the core of the car. I might be interested in a base CTR as well depending on how it's packaged. My wife axed that car mainly based on the wing. But with the subdued spoiler I might be able to take another crack at it. I wonder if it'll be higher volume as well?

Design
Profile for Design
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-30-2018 17:29
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The wing alone would net significant savings. Pair with halogens, non-navi, and possibly 19" cast spun wheels... probably $2-3K less.
Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2018 17:20
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KaySee wrote:
I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.


Track CTR, like naked inside out, no A/C, no radio. It is called Group N by FIA, these Type R s exist in Europe, last gen, were tracked or prepped for Rally, same existed for the Ep3.

Perhaps US will get these naked versions?

But noche only, not for drive-in McDonald/Burger Koing/nachos tortillas, CTR drive by buyers.

LOL

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2018 17:23
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https://auto.honda.fr/cars/new/civic-type-r/challenge.html


Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2018 17:27
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https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2yc5zl
Mikgtir
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Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2018 17:34
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https://m.rally24.fr/make/Honda-rallye-voitures-a-vendre/


sivikvtec
Profile for sivikvtec
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-01-2018 18:03
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I think removing the wing, changing the wheels, and toning down a little bit of the styling would really increase demand. Subaru tried this 10 years ago with the STI Limited, always liked those...not sure how well they sold.

But maybe Honda has no interest in increasing sales? Do they even have the production capacity?




KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-02-2018 10:26
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Mikgtir wrote:
KaySee wrote:
I still don't get the point of a trimmed down CTR. Would it still be low volume? Would it just to be to give consumers a cheaper entry point or would it be marketed as a light weight hardcore variant with worse aero? Maybe if it sees the light of day it'll make sense to me then.

I strongly dislike the idea of a CUV with Type R bones. Unless it comes in manual, that would make me interested(below a 0% chance). Otherwise that makes me sad and bored thinking about that prospect. That is the reality of the market though, and it is definitely possible.

A manual ILX hatch/sedan with FWD or SHAWD would be truly amazing in so many ways. But, I may only experience that thanks to the power of my dreams.


Track CTR, like naked inside out, no A/C, no radio. It is called Group N by FIA, these Type R s exist in Europe, last gen, were tracked or prepped for Rally, same existed for the Ep3.

Perhaps US will get these naked versions?

But noche only, not for drive-in McDonald/Burger Koing/nachos tortillas, CTR drive by buyers.

LOL



Yeah man I was thinking that too. Like I mentioned I just thought it would be weird to make a hardcore variant with worse areo than the regular car. But yeah maybe that it the plan. I'd be curious how they'd explain giving the track focused variant less downforce though.


DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Odds of a hatchback SiR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2018 01:17
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They don't need to change shit. Drive one, then come back here.

 
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