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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers

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gofast182
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F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-19-2018 07:23
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This weekend Formula 1 returns to the Hockenheimring for the German Grand Prix. Despite once being a staple on the calendar beginning in 1977, the venue has recently had an on-again off-again relationship with Formula1 with the last races here being held in 2014 and 2016. The Hockenheimring only took on its current layout after a thorough [Tilke] redesign in 2002. The layout has a little bit of everything and is difficult to classify as either a downforce or power track.

Toro Rosso Honda enter the weekend with some uncertainty with respect to expectations. With an engine that they still cannot run at full power, a recent aero update which did not correlated to CFD results, and one driver lacking pace, they will hope to put one of the cars in the points but probably are not so sure themselves. Nevertheless, the team will aim for the best possible result.

Elsewhere on the grid, it appears Ferrari has an ever-so-slight advantage over Mercedes; however, Mercedes will be pulling out all stops to dominate at their home grand prix. Red Bull should be in the mix and this could be a race where they split the top two teams. Renault and Haas will be battling for the next positions with the former needing better reliability and the latter needing better luck. The next battle should be a three way fight between Force India, McLaren, and Sauber as they hunt for the last points-paying position. Expect Williams to round out the order.

For more, including TV times, stats, standings, and video, click over to TOV-M!
https://motorsports.vtec.net/blog/213/f1-2018-german-grand-prix/

sennaFAN
Profile for sennaFAN
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-19-2018 08:39
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It will be interesting to see if Honda do push the engines if the Red Bull stories are to be believed. I think it is common sense to use the rest of this season as a rolling test bed for the PU. In 2019 both STR and Red Bull would benefit from a really aggressive push on the PU.
Or maybe they will split it, let Gasley run a more conservative approach but use Hartley as a PU development driver.
F1 has become more and more about the big teams using the lesser teams as development tools. It is also obvious how the 'same' PU teams jump out of the way of the mother teams cars. Look at Force India in Monaco it was hilarious !!
It's a shame in the way as teams like STR used to be able to compete with a competent chassis to fight but they simply cannot when the PU makes such a huge difference these days, made worse by the fact that the huge grip they generate means that corners, as were, are now taken flat lending even more importance to the PU and in particular energy recovery.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-19-2018 19:45
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We all know how fiendishly complicated these PU power plants are in F1, and Ferrari's recent resurgence at power circuits is a timely reminder that it's not just about the ICE, or any one component for that matter!

This latest story on Autosport I find very interesting, if a little nebulous for me to grasp the intricate ideas on how it all works. Perhaps one the more engineering minded posters on here can explain it in simpler terms for my basic mind?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/8362/is-free-energy-trick-the-key-to-ferrari-surge

CafeDelMar90
Profile for CafeDelMar90
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 04:39
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This isn't F1 related but close enough. So Aston Martin entering DTM ( German Touring Cars) next year with, get this, an Aston Martin on the outside, A Honda engine on the inside and Red Bull sponsorship. Had to quickly check it wasn't April the 1st. Its customer based only, but still, the Honda/ Red Bull relationship goes further and further.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018/07/18/aston-martin-set-customer-team-entry-2020/


bigblue
Profile for bigblue
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 06:04
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Wow didn't see that Aston / Honda / Red Bull thing coming, sounds like April 1st !
gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 08:52
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Not a great showing in FP1. Let's see what they can do in FP2.
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 09:06
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bigblue wrote:
Wow didn't see that Aston / Honda / Red Bull thing coming, sounds like April 1st !


Looks like they would be leveraging Honda's SuperGT drivetrain.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 11:57
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gofast182 wrote:
Not a great showing in FP1. Let's see what they can do in FP2.


No dramas in FP1 or FP2... consitency with the number of laps by both drivers and interestingly, lap times very similar for both Gasly (1:14.793s) and Hartley (1:14.830s) - that's just over 1.7s behind the fastest time of the day by Verstappen (1:13.085s)... with good reliability and lots of laps (finally, needed for the Spec 2 PU after issues in the last few races)... so lots of data to look at prior to FP3, qualifying and the race. Nothing extraordinary... just a good, steady and diligent start by the STR team.

Let's see what happens for the rest of the weekend...

Go Toro Rosso-Honda! Go! Go! Go!

bigblue
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 12:08
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Interesting speed-trap figures.



Hartley's engine turned right up ? Different set-up ? Both ?

RolledaNsx
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 12:26
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CafeDelMar90 wrote:
This isn't F1 related but close enough. So Aston Martin entering DTM ( German Touring Cars) next year with, get this, an Aston Martin on the outside, A Honda engine on the inside and Red Bull sponsorship. Had to quickly check it wasn't April the 1st. Its customer based only, but still, the Honda/ Red Bull relationship goes further and further.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018/07/18/aston-martin-set-customer-team-entry-2020/



AM/RB Valkyrie Cosworth/Honda 6.5L V12 and AM/RB Valkyrie JR(488 Comp) Cosworth/Honda 3.5L V6?

Honda wants to be in the sports car business but the CEO knows they do not know the business and the customers are elites that buy image/brand and teaming with AM/RB would solve this problem.


Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 12:38
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RolledaNsx wrote:
CafeDelMar90 wrote:
This isn't F1 related but close enough. So Aston Martin entering DTM ( German Touring Cars) next year with, get this, an Aston Martin on the outside, A Honda engine on the inside and Red Bull sponsorship. Had to quickly check it wasn't April the 1st. Its customer based only, but still, the Honda/ Red Bull relationship goes further and further.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018/07/18/aston-martin-set-customer-team-entry-2020/



AM/RB Valkyrie Cosworth/Honda 6.5L V12 and AM/RB Valkyrie JR(488 Comp) Cosworth/Honda 3.5L V6?

Honda wants to be in the sports car business but the CEO knows they do not know the business and the customers are elites that buy image/brand and teaming with AM/RB would solve this problem.




Any chance Honda would be smart enough to buy a controlling interest in AM (which was a private company last time I checked) and help them develop their brand as well as other interesting concepts that could pollinate the rest of Honda?

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 13:37
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Bullwinkle wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
CafeDelMar90 wrote:
This isn't F1 related but close enough. So Aston Martin entering DTM ( German Touring Cars) next year with, get this, an Aston Martin on the outside, A Honda engine on the inside and Red Bull sponsorship. Had to quickly check it wasn't April the 1st. Its customer based only, but still, the Honda/ Red Bull relationship goes further and further.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018/07/18/aston-martin-set-customer-team-entry-2020/



AM/RB Valkyrie Cosworth/Honda 6.5L V12 and AM/RB Valkyrie JR(488 Comp) Cosworth/Honda 3.5L V6?

Honda wants to be in the sports car business but the CEO knows they do not know the business and the customers are elites that buy image/brand and teaming with AM/RB would solve this problem.




Any chance Honda would be smart enough to buy a controlling interest in AM (which was a private company last time I checked) and help them develop their brand as well as other interesting concepts that could pollinate the rest of Honda?



Honda been thinking about it since the 80's(Rover).But I think MB(AMG) is a private investor with AM.So AMG engines for AM GT's and Cosworth engines(Honda) for RB design MR's.

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 15:40
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
CafeDelMar90 wrote:
This isn't F1 related but close enough. So Aston Martin entering DTM ( German Touring Cars) next year with, get this, an Aston Martin on the outside, A Honda engine on the inside and Red Bull sponsorship. Had to quickly check it wasn't April the 1st. Its customer based only, but still, the Honda/ Red Bull relationship goes further and further.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018/07/18/aston-martin-set-customer-team-entry-2020/



AM/RB Valkyrie Cosworth/Honda 6.5L V12 and AM/RB Valkyrie JR(488 Comp) Cosworth/Honda 3.5L V6?

Honda wants to be in the sports car business but the CEO knows they do not know the business and the customers are elites that buy image/brand and teaming with AM/RB would solve this problem.




Any chance Honda would be smart enough to buy a controlling interest in AM (which was a private company last time I checked) and help them develop their brand as well as other interesting concepts that could pollinate the rest of Honda?



Honda been thinking about it since the 80's(Rover).But I think MB(AMG) is a private investor with AM.So AMG engines for AM GT's and Cosworth engines(Honda) for RB design MR's.



I was thinking that since AMG has not done a lot lately with AM and AMG has developed into an AM competitor ....

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2018 20:19
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Bullwinkle wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
CafeDelMar90 wrote:
This isn't F1 related but close enough. So Aston Martin entering DTM ( German Touring Cars) next year with, get this, an Aston Martin on the outside, A Honda engine on the inside and Red Bull sponsorship. Had to quickly check it wasn't April the 1st. Its customer based only, but still, the Honda/ Red Bull relationship goes further and further.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018/07/18/aston-martin-set-customer-team-entry-2020/



AM/RB Valkyrie Cosworth/Honda 6.5L V12 and AM/RB Valkyrie JR(488 Comp) Cosworth/Honda 3.5L V6?

Honda wants to be in the sports car business but the CEO knows they do not know the business and the customers are elites that buy image/brand and teaming with AM/RB would solve this problem.




Any chance Honda would be smart enough to buy a controlling interest in AM (which was a private company last time I checked) and help them develop their brand as well as other interesting concepts that could pollinate the rest of Honda?



Honda been thinking about it since the 80's(Rover).But I think MB(AMG) is a private investor with AM.So AMG engines for AM GT's and Cosworth engines(Honda) for RB design MR's.



I was thinking that since AMG has not done a lot lately with AM and AMG has developed into an AM competitor ....



Future auto business will be only two sectors......BEV or HEV People Mover(middle class and below) and Luxury/Halo(rich people).So it would be smart for Honda to buy AM or be partner because the Luxury/Halo will be big money makers in the future and the cars that the masses will dream about but can't have.

Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2018 02:24
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Back to F1 discussions...

Quote from Motorsport article on Gasly's penalty in the British GP:

“It is part of racing and I think people are quite excited to see when it happens in F1.”
The Frenchman reiterated that he sought a more consistent approach to F1 stewarding, having felt after Britain that manoeuvres similar to his Perez move had gone unpenalised in the past.
“It is not only for my case, just to have something clear for everyone,” he said.
“Just to know where the line is exactly, because from one weekend to another it seems to change a bit.
“It is important to have some clear feedback on what the limit is.”


Link: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasly-hamilton-vettel-briefing-silverstone-penalty-1062042/

Some people say (and will continue to say) he is just whinging and a cry-baby...

Well, personally I disagree with those sentiments... there has been controversy in this area of F1 racing for a very long time and there needs to be, hopefully, better clarification and 'fairer' consistency of how penalty/reprimands are decided for the sake of everyone (drivers, teams, administrators, promoters, sponsors and the fans)!

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2018 08:04
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Damp squib of a session for Practice 3. Torro Rosso chassis showed its not very good in the wet........
Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2018 09:21
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Unfortunately both Gasly and Hartley out in Q1 in 17th and 18th position... retrograde step!
Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Qualy Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2018 09:23
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So one Mercedes loses hydraulic pressure and the gears won't shift. And it looks like Hamilton kneels next to his car behind the fence to give thanks for his big new contract.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Qualy Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2018 09:28
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Grace141 wrote:
So one Mercedes loses hydraulic pressure and the gears won't shift. And it looks like Hamilton kneels next to his car behind the fence to give thanks for his big new contract.



That's how the cookie starts to crumble...

Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Qualy Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2018 10:28
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That's it... Vettel takes pole! Congratulations!

Haas best of the rest... and Renault (just behind Haas) has found 'something'...

Well, onto the race...

It will be interesting and fun to follow Hamilton and Ricciardo 'gradually' (?) move up through the field...

Let's see what race pace STR has tomorrow (points seem most unlikely for their two drivers).

Anyway, go Toro Rosso-Honda! Go! Go! Go!

bigblue
Profile for bigblue
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Qualy Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2018 14:56
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Pretty poor from STR, seem to be going backwards compared to everyone else. At least no engine issues so far. Seems like the recent-ish aero upgrades didn't bring much ?

Also Ferrari's engine upgrade a few races ago really helped Haas and Sauber, and the Haas chassis/aero upgrade from a couple of races ago was quite successful. McLaren are perplexed as to why Vandoorne's car has less downforce than Alonso's, and don't yet have updates to start to address their issues, some are due in the next race.

Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Qualy Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 08:51
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Power unit change on Gasly's car.

Statement from Honda Racing F1 (about 4 hrs ago):

"Good morning from Hockenheim!
Prior to today’s race, for tactical reasons, we are changing all PU elements with the exception of battery-related components on Pierre's car."

I suppose, all to gain and nothing to lose!

All the best wishes for the Red Bull teams in the German GP - starting in about 20 minutes time.

Go Toro Rosso-Honda! Go! Go! Go!

Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 09:06
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So with Gasly's PU change - Hartley now starts 16th, Ricciardo 19th and Gasly 20th.

Let us see how much they move up by the end of the race.

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 09:53
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Ricciardo had climbed to 6th position, however...

Trouble with his 'new' PU and has to stop...

Great Renault (Un-)Reliability!!!

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 09:58
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And the spanner in the works...

Rain is predicted in 10-15 minutes! We will see if it really happens...

Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 10:04
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Vandoorne retires with another Renault PU related problem...
Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 10:09
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Everyone waiting for the rain... but still no rain!
Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 10:13
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Vxtec wrote:
Vandoorne retires with another Renault PU related problem...


UPDATE:

Vandoorne did not retire, still running but at the back of the field.

And some rain has arrived at the hairpin! Woohooooo!

Grace141
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 10:18
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Huge mistake by TR with going with full wets for Gasly.
Vxtec
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Re: F1 - 2018 German Grand Prix - Race Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2018 10:19
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Gasly gamble of putting full wets was a very bad call... he is running last!

 
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