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TOV Forums > HondaJet > > Re: HondaJet Elite just announced

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owequitit
Profile for owequitit
HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 15:31
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Looks like you opened this forum just in time JeffX!

First refinement to the HondaJet just announced.

Several big ticket improvements, namely the galley and the additional range. It looks like Honda's market research agrees with me in that the original range was a little bit short.

I think the additional 200-300nm miles will greatly increase its appeal and lead to much better sales. It doesn't seem like much, but operationally, it will give it about an extra 30-45 minutes of gross range, but more importantly, it will make a HUGE difference when the weather is bad and they have to carry alternate or hold fuel. In those cases, it could add about an hour to useful trip range.

The galley will make it more comfortable, and the other refinements will make it nicer to spend time in as well. It is interesting that the cabin audio is generated the same way the Ridgeline's bed system works.

Gfn8r
Profile for Gfn8r
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 18:12
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But no panoramic moonroof!

Better exhaust finishers though!

And I’ll bet the landing lights are all-LED, and not those yellow halogens!

How ‘bout that gauge package—angle-of-attack, no less! (Seems to be missing a HID, though! ;-) )

This has got it all over those Gulfstreams, for sure!

None
Profile for None
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 19:14
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Still too much front overhang.
Gfn8r
Profile for Gfn8r
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 20:37
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Runway-Keep Assist and Autothrottle included in the FADEC for the first time this year?!

They finally included de-icing equipment on jets to be registered in the US!

And I’ll bet someone will be stupid enough at delivery to be conned into taking the VIN etching and an alarm system that messes with the avionics! And the wheel locks, with “FAA-approved” nitrogen in the tires! (Just like everything else, there’s probably no sidewall on the tires! Don’t bounce on landing, and better hope there’s no potholes on the runways!)

Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 21:31
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Pardon my lack of jet knowledge, but is this a trim line? Like, the base HondaJet doesn't have the upgraded engine and the full service galley? If so, how much the price difference with the base trim and is it a lot? I imagine jets only have a single engine trim and plethora of personal customisation, definitely not an engine choice.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 23:17
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I guess the retractable sunroof is out of the question?!?
Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 23:35
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Glad they are pushing updates through. Seems like they are building as many as they can and selling all of them. Here's hoping this increases their order backlog.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 01:08
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Midi_Amp wrote:
Pardon my lack of jet knowledge, but is this a trim line? Like, the base HondaJet doesn't have the upgraded engine and the full service galley? If so, how much the price difference with the base trim and is it a lot? I imagine jets only have a single engine trim and plethora of personal customisation, definitely not an engine choice.


A choice of engines on business jets is not usual. However, at many other levels of aviation, it actually is fairly common. Especially at the airline level where an airline might have a choice of 3 different engine makers (typically Pratt & Whitney, GE and Rolls-Royce) or some combination of those companies making competing engines (for instance, the Airbus A320 family can have either GE power or Pratt/RR power on older ones, or Pratt power on newer ones). Then within the engine type, they may have a choice of up to 5 or 6 thrust levels. This is usually achieve with a software "plug" and can be changed with an update.

Specifically though, this particular aircraft is just a detail refinement of the current aircraft.

https://www.hondajet.com/news/article?articleType=pressrelease&categoryType=9b69b8fb-eba7-47fd-be9d-5300b6dfb491

HONDA AIRCRAFT COMPANY UNVEILS THE HONDAJET ELITE

Honda's Newest State-of-the-Art, Environmentally Responsible Aircraft Features Increased Range, Updated Avionics Suite and Enhanced Cabin Amenities

GENEVA - May 27, 2018 - Honda Aircraft Company today revealed a new upgraded aircraft, the "HondaJet Elite," at a special hangar event ahead of the 2018 European Business Aviation Convention and Exhibition (EBACE) in Geneva, Switzerland.

The HondaJet Elite has achieved an extended range of an additional 17% (+396km) and is equipped with a newly developed noise attenuating inlet structure that lines each engine and greatly reduces high frequency noise to enhance cabin quietness. Additionally, the new aircraft's advanced avionics system incorporates additional performance management functions for optimum flight planning and automatic stability and protection functions to enhance safety of flight.

The HondaJet Elite also protects the environment by offering the best fuel efficiency in its class while also featuring best-in-class speed, altitude and range. The aircraft is type certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The HondaJet Elite will be displayed for the first time to the public at EBACE from May 28th through May 31st.

Honda Aircraft Company's President and CEO Michimasa Fujino introduced the aircraft at the event. "The HondaJet Elite represents Honda Aircraft's continued commitment to performance, efficiency and environment creating new value in business aviation," he said. "The result of innovation, design and engineering, our new aircraft features several performance and comfort enhancements that, once again, set a new standard in aviation. We are excited to share Honda Aircraft's latest technological feat with the world at EBACE.

The new aircraft was designed to provide the user the best experience by utilizing Honda Aircraft's pioneering advanced technologies coupled with the best performance and comfort enhancements. The HondaJet Elite is more fuel efficient than any other aircraft in its category and emitting less greenhouse gases than similar sized business jets.

The HondaJet Elite has inherited the aeronautical breakthroughs developed by Honda Aircraft, including the Over-The-Wing Engine Mount (OTWEM) configuration, Natural Laminar Flow (NLF) fuselage nose and wing and composite fuselage. The aircraft continues to be the most efficient, quietest, fastest and highest-flying as well as the furthest-flying in its category.

- Key features of the HondaJet Elite -

- Range: 1,437 nautical miles* Longer range makes it the furthest-flying aircraft in its class

- Noise Attenuating Engine Inlets: Advanced inlet technology created to reduce exterior and interior noise

- Performance Management: Provides optimized performance planning for all phases of flight such as airspeed / cruise altitude, fuel flow, etc

- Takeoff/Landing Distance (TOLD) Management: Automatic computation of the required runway length, V-speeds, climb/approach gradients, etc

- Stability and Protection with Roll and AoA Functions**: Provides enhanced safety features for manual flying that will deter aircraft operation outside the normal flight envelope

- AFCS Coupled Go-Around with Underspeed Protection**: The aircraft’s autopilot remains connected, enhancing aircraft safety and reducing pilot workload

- New Exterior Colors with Signature Paint Scheme**: Three premier signature paints, Ice Blue / Ruby Red / Monarch Orange

- Bongiovi Audio System**: An industry first speaker-less in-cabin sound system that provides immersive audio experience throughout the entire cabin

- New Interior Equipment Options:

> Belted Lavatory

>Galley with Coffee Brewer

>Two-toned Executive Leather Seats

* NBAA IFR Range

**Optional

For more information, visit hondajetelite.com.

Honda Aircraft Company has established a worldwide dealer and authorized sales network to provide unsurpassed service and support for HondaJet customers. The HondaJet authorized network spans territories in North America, Latin America, Europe and Asia. An advanced light jet, the HondaJet was the most delivered aircraft in its category in 2017 and has been certified and delivered in countries around the globe.


Here is the specific site for the update:

http://www.hondajetelite.com

I'm not sure how Garmin is achieving the stability and protection stuff, but by guess would be some combination of display/audio alerts. I'll have to look into that. But considering that loss of control accidents are currently one of the hot button items from a safety standpoint, I support it fully. Garmin has typically been on the leading edge of this stuff with synthetic vision, etc.

I am also all for AOA (angle of attack) inclusion because it really the one performance item that you really need to be 100% certain what is going on at the wing. Since a wing always stalls at a specific angle of attack, and this angle can occur in any attitude or position, it is a huge safety benefit, especially on a high performance wing where feedback may be limited. It always keeps you in the loop on how much performance you have left in the wing. Especially since a lot of HondaJets are probably owner flown by people who may not have a ton of jet time.

I also thought it was interesting that Bongiovi Acoustic Labs is responsible for the sound system as that is the cousin of acclaimed Jon Bon Jovi. Sort of cool.

Finally, the automatic calculation of TOLD (Takeoff and Landing Distance) data, C.G. data, etc would be a huge and convenient time savings for every owner regardless of pilot experience level. It simply saves time from having to do it manually, which means you can probably be in the air on average 10-15 minutes faster than if you had to do it manually.

Glad to see Honda investing in keeping the airplane at the top of its game.

HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 13:27
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owequitit wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
Pardon my lack of jet knowledge, but is this a trim line? Like, the base HondaJet doesn't have the upgraded engine and the full service galley? If so, how much the price difference with the base trim and is it a lot? I imagine jets only have a single engine trim and plethora of personal customisation, definitely not an engine choice.


A choice of engines on business jets is not usual. However, at many other levels of aviation, it actually is fairly common. Especially at the airline level where an airline might have a choice of 3 different engine makers (typically Pratt & Whitney, GE and Rolls-Royce) or some combination of those companies making competing engines (for instance, the Airbus A320 family can have either GE power or Pratt/RR power on older ones, or Pratt power on newer ones). Then within the engine type, they may have a choice of up to 5 or 6 thrust levels. This is usually achieve with a software "plug" and can be changed with an update.

Specifically though, this particular aircraft is just a detail refinement of the current aircraft.

https://www.hondajet.com/news/article?articleType=pressrelease&categoryType=9b69b8fb-eba7-47fd-be9d-5300b6dfb491

HONDA AIRCRAFT COMPANY UNVEILS THE HONDAJET ELITE

Honda's Newest State-of-the-Art, Environmentally Responsible Aircraft Features Increased Range, Updated Avionics Suite and Enhanced Cabin Amenities

GENEVA - May 27, 2018 - Honda Aircraft Company today revealed a new upgraded aircraft, the "HondaJet Elite," at a special hangar event ahead of the 2018 European Business Aviation Convention and Exhibition (EBACE) in Geneva, Switzerland.

The HondaJet Elite has achieved an extended range of an additional 17% (+396km) and is equipped with a newly developed noise attenuating inlet structure that lines each engine and greatly reduces high frequency noise to enhance cabin quietness. Additionally, the new aircraft's advanced avionics system incorporates additional performance management functions for optimum flight planning and automatic stability and protection functions to enhance safety of flight.

The HondaJet Elite also protects the environment by offering the best fuel efficiency in its class while also featuring best-in-class speed, altitude and range. The aircraft is type certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The HondaJet Elite will be displayed for the first time to the public at EBACE from May 28th through May 31st.

Honda Aircraft Company's President and CEO Michimasa Fujino introduced the aircraft at the event. "The HondaJet Elite represents Honda Aircraft's continued commitment to performance, efficiency and environment creating new value in business aviation," he said. "The result of innovation, design and engineering, our new aircraft features several performance and comfort enhancements that, once again, set a new standard in aviation. We are excited to share Honda Aircraft's latest technological feat with the world at EBACE.

The new aircraft was designed to provide the user the best experience by utilizing Honda Aircraft's pioneering advanced technologies coupled with the best performance and comfort enhancements. The HondaJet Elite is more fuel efficient than any other aircraft in its category and emitting less greenhouse gases than similar sized business jets.

The HondaJet Elite has inherited the aeronautical breakthroughs developed by Honda Aircraft, including the Over-The-Wing Engine Mount (OTWEM) configuration, Natural Laminar Flow (NLF) fuselage nose and wing and composite fuselage. The aircraft continues to be the most efficient, quietest, fastest and highest-flying as well as the furthest-flying in its category.

- Key features of the HondaJet Elite -

- Range: 1,437 nautical miles* Longer range makes it the furthest-flying aircraft in its class

- Noise Attenuating Engine Inlets: Advanced inlet technology created to reduce exterior and interior noise

- Performance Management: Provides optimized performance planning for all phases of flight such as airspeed / cruise altitude, fuel flow, etc

- Takeoff/Landing Distance (TOLD) Management: Automatic computation of the required runway length, V-speeds, climb/approach gradients, etc

- Stability and Protection with Roll and AoA Functions**: Provides enhanced safety features for manual flying that will deter aircraft operation outside the normal flight envelope

- AFCS Coupled Go-Around with Underspeed Protection**: The aircraft’s autopilot remains connected, enhancing aircraft safety and reducing pilot workload

- New Exterior Colors with Signature Paint Scheme**: Three premier signature paints, Ice Blue / Ruby Red / Monarch Orange

- Bongiovi Audio System**: An industry first speaker-less in-cabin sound system that provides immersive audio experience throughout the entire cabin

- New Interior Equipment Options:

> Belted Lavatory

>Galley with Coffee Brewer

>Two-toned Executive Leather Seats

* NBAA IFR Range

**Optional

For more information, visit hondajetelite.com.

Honda Aircraft Company has established a worldwide dealer and authorized sales network to provide unsurpassed service and support for HondaJet customers. The HondaJet authorized network spans territories in North America, Latin America, Europe and Asia. An advanced light jet, the HondaJet was the most delivered aircraft in its category in 2017 and has been certified and delivered in countries around the globe.


Here is the specific site for the update:

http://www.hondajetelite.com

I'm not sure how Garmin is achieving the stability and protection stuff, but by guess would be some combination of display/audio alerts. I'll have to look into that. But considering that loss of control accidents are currently one of the hot button items from a safety standpoint, I support it fully. Garmin has typically been on the leading edge of this stuff with synthetic vision, etc.

I am also all for AOA (angle of attack) inclusion because it really the one performance item that you really need to be 100% certain what is going on at the wing. Since a wing always stalls at a specific angle of attack, and this angle can occur in any attitude or position, it is a huge safety benefit, especially on a high performance wing where feedback may be limited. It always keeps you in the loop on how much performance you have left in the wing. Especially since a lot of HondaJets are probably owner flown by people who may not have a ton of jet time.

I also thought it was interesting that Bongiovi Acoustic Labs is responsible for the sound system as that is the cousin of acclaimed Jon Bon Jovi. Sort of cool.

Finally, the automatic calculation of TOLD (Takeoff and Landing Distance) data, C.G. data, etc would be a huge and convenient time savings for every owner regardless of pilot experience level. It simply saves time from having to do it manually, which means you can probably be in the air on average 10-15 minutes faster than if you had to do it manually.

Glad to see Honda investing in keeping the airplane at the top of its game.


A few questions for you, Owe:

1. Why does Boeing complicate things for itself by offering three different engines, from different vendors, for the same air frame?

2. Why would an airline want to specify the engine that goes on that air frame and not leave it to Boeing, presumably the experts? What difference does it make to them?

3. As a pilot, do you have to be retrained if you fly the same airplane but it has a different engine? Are the flying characteristics different with different engines?

4. Are the instruments in the cockpit different or the same with different engines?

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 15:41
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
HondaForever wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
Pardon my lack of jet knowledge, but is this a trim line? Like, the base HondaJet doesn't have the upgraded engine and the full service galley? If so, how much the price difference with the base trim and is it a lot? I imagine jets only have a single engine trim and plethora of personal customisation, definitely not an engine choice.


A choice of engines on business jets is not usual. However, at many other levels of aviation, it actually is fairly common. Especially at the airline level where an airline might have a choice of 3 different engine makers (typically Pratt & Whitney, GE and Rolls-Royce) or some combination of those companies making competing engines (for instance, the Airbus A320 family can have either GE power or Pratt/RR power on older ones, or Pratt power on newer ones). Then within the engine type, they may have a choice of up to 5 or 6 thrust levels. This is usually achieve with a software "plug" and can be changed with an update.

Specifically though, this particular aircraft is just a detail refinement of the current aircraft.

https://www.hondajet.com/news/article?articleType=pressrelease&categoryType=9b69b8fb-eba7-47fd-be9d-5300b6dfb491

HONDA AIRCRAFT COMPANY UNVEILS THE HONDAJET ELITE

Honda's Newest State-of-the-Art, Environmentally Responsible Aircraft Features Increased Range, Updated Avionics Suite and Enhanced Cabin Amenities

GENEVA - May 27, 2018 - Honda Aircraft Company today revealed a new upgraded aircraft, the "HondaJet Elite," at a special hangar event ahead of the 2018 European Business Aviation Convention and Exhibition (EBACE) in Geneva, Switzerland.

The HondaJet Elite has achieved an extended range of an additional 17% (+396km) and is equipped with a newly developed noise attenuating inlet structure that lines each engine and greatly reduces high frequency noise to enhance cabin quietness. Additionally, the new aircraft's advanced avionics system incorporates additional performance management functions for optimum flight planning and automatic stability and protection functions to enhance safety of flight.

The HondaJet Elite also protects the environment by offering the best fuel efficiency in its class while also featuring best-in-class speed, altitude and range. The aircraft is type certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The HondaJet Elite will be displayed for the first time to the public at EBACE from May 28th through May 31st.

Honda Aircraft Company's President and CEO Michimasa Fujino introduced the aircraft at the event. "The HondaJet Elite represents Honda Aircraft's continued commitment to performance, efficiency and environment creating new value in business aviation," he said. "The result of innovation, design and engineering, our new aircraft features several performance and comfort enhancements that, once again, set a new standard in aviation. We are excited to share Honda Aircraft's latest technological feat with the world at EBACE.

The new aircraft was designed to provide the user the best experience by utilizing Honda Aircraft's pioneering advanced technologies coupled with the best performance and comfort enhancements. The HondaJet Elite is more fuel efficient than any other aircraft in its category and emitting less greenhouse gases than similar sized business jets.

The HondaJet Elite has inherited the aeronautical breakthroughs developed by Honda Aircraft, including the Over-The-Wing Engine Mount (OTWEM) configuration, Natural Laminar Flow (NLF) fuselage nose and wing and composite fuselage. The aircraft continues to be the most efficient, quietest, fastest and highest-flying as well as the furthest-flying in its category.

- Key features of the HondaJet Elite -

- Range: 1,437 nautical miles* Longer range makes it the furthest-flying aircraft in its class

- Noise Attenuating Engine Inlets: Advanced inlet technology created to reduce exterior and interior noise

- Performance Management: Provides optimized performance planning for all phases of flight such as airspeed / cruise altitude, fuel flow, etc

- Takeoff/Landing Distance (TOLD) Management: Automatic computation of the required runway length, V-speeds, climb/approach gradients, etc

- Stability and Protection with Roll and AoA Functions**: Provides enhanced safety features for manual flying that will deter aircraft operation outside the normal flight envelope

- AFCS Coupled Go-Around with Underspeed Protection**: The aircraft’s autopilot remains connected, enhancing aircraft safety and reducing pilot workload

- New Exterior Colors with Signature Paint Scheme**: Three premier signature paints, Ice Blue / Ruby Red / Monarch Orange

- Bongiovi Audio System**: An industry first speaker-less in-cabin sound system that provides immersive audio experience throughout the entire cabin

- New Interior Equipment Options:

> Belted Lavatory

>Galley with Coffee Brewer

>Two-toned Executive Leather Seats

* NBAA IFR Range

**Optional

For more information, visit hondajetelite.com.

Honda Aircraft Company has established a worldwide dealer and authorized sales network to provide unsurpassed service and support for HondaJet customers. The HondaJet authorized network spans territories in North America, Latin America, Europe and Asia. An advanced light jet, the HondaJet was the most delivered aircraft in its category in 2017 and has been certified and delivered in countries around the globe.


Here is the specific site for the update:

http://www.hondajetelite.com

I'm not sure how Garmin is achieving the stability and protection stuff, but by guess would be some combination of display/audio alerts. I'll have to look into that. But considering that loss of control accidents are currently one of the hot button items from a safety standpoint, I support it fully. Garmin has typically been on the leading edge of this stuff with synthetic vision, etc.

I am also all for AOA (angle of attack) inclusion because it really the one performance item that you really need to be 100% certain what is going on at the wing. Since a wing always stalls at a specific angle of attack, and this angle can occur in any attitude or position, it is a huge safety benefit, especially on a high performance wing where feedback may be limited. It always keeps you in the loop on how much performance you have left in the wing. Especially since a lot of HondaJets are probably owner flown by people who may not have a ton of jet time.

I also thought it was interesting that Bongiovi Acoustic Labs is responsible for the sound system as that is the cousin of acclaimed Jon Bon Jovi. Sort of cool.

Finally, the automatic calculation of TOLD (Takeoff and Landing Distance) data, C.G. data, etc would be a huge and convenient time savings for every owner regardless of pilot experience level. It simply saves time from having to do it manually, which means you can probably be in the air on average 10-15 minutes faster than if you had to do it manually.

Glad to see Honda investing in keeping the airplane at the top of its game.


A few questions for you, Owe:

1. Why does Boeing complicate things for itself by offering three different engines, from different vendors, for the same air frame?

2. Why would an airline want to specify the engine that goes on that air frame and not leave it to Boeing, presumably the experts? What difference does it make to them?

3. As a pilot, do you have to be retrained if you fly the same airplane but it has a different engine? Are the flying characteristics different with different engines?

4. Are the instruments in the cockpit different or the same with different engines?



1 + 2)In order to maintain market share, airplane companies that build transport category airplanes have to keep the product as relevant to as many people as they can, and it has to do with trying to reconcile conflicting requirements. For instance, Southwest uses their 737 fleet in a much different way than United, Delta or AA do (they do a LOT more short distance, high frequency flying). So the airplane has to be good at both missions.

In the case of engines, it just depends. Again, different needs for different companies. In some cases, fuel efficiency is primary, in others, reliability is more important, and still in others, short field performance characteristics may be most important, so different engines may have different advantages. Using the A320 as an example, the GE CFM-56 is a little bit lighter and simpler (cheaper to maintain) than the IAE V2500. But the IAE V2500 will return slightly better fuel economy on longer legs, so they both have advantages and disadvantages and it depends on the what the company wants. The 737 doesn't offer an engine choice other than thrust level differences whereas Airbus has 2 engine choices. It really just depends. I believe Boeing talked about offering more engines, but customer demand overwhelmingly favored the GE choices, so the other engine companies backed out.

Ironically, this has changed from back in the day (circa 1930's) where companies would build entire bespoke airplanes for companies. McDonnell-Douglas (and Douglas) REALLY tailored airplanes for customers, as I have seen MD-80s with all sorts of flight deck and equipment configurations. Boeing does some of that, and Airbus does very little.

As for engines, it is interesting that you ask this because technologically, we are working toward a future where engines are just parts that can be interchanged. For instance, on the 787 Dreamliner, it is the first airplane where if the original customer bought GE engines, and the company that buys it wants Rolls-Royce, they can be "swapped out" as all of the mountings are the same. That is a first and was not previously possible.

Finally, politics always plays a roll. When British Airways ordered the GE-90 for their first batch of 777's, it was a major political issue because they have traditionally been a loyal British based Rolls-Royce customer. Of course, subsequent BA 777 orders had Rolls-Royce engines on them.

3) In that case, we would go through what is called "differences training" which essentially just educates us on the differences that are created for that setup from a systems and operational standpoint. This can apply to airplanes in the same family, but with a common Type Rating as well (737-700/800/900/Max 7/8/9 etc). Basically, a Type Rating is an airplane specific rating and then the "differences training" takes care of differences within the family that that type rating covers. You would also see this with the A320 family type rating as the differences between the way an A318 and an A321 fly can be significantly different, even though the airplanes are largely the same and have the same type rating.

As for characteristic differences, there is usually a huge change associated with engines because the thrust levels are typically on par with each other. You would have a much larger difference going from an A319 to an A321 in terms of performance and flying qualities than you probably would going from IAE to GE. In fact, American flies large numbers of both engines on their A320 family and it isn't a big deal. For instance, an A319 is a little rocket ship compared to an A321, even when fully loaded on the A319 and especially when fully loaded on the A321, which relatively performs like a dog.

4) The instruments will vary somewhat as the engine limits will vary somewhat. Things like max EGT will usually not be the same with different engine families. Sometimes, you will also have additional gauges on one engine type. For instance, on some engines, the main power indicator is Engine Pressure Ratio or EPR and on others it is fan speed or N1. GE typically likes to use N1 and Rolls and PW usually like to use EPR, so if you transition from a GE powered plane to a PW or RR one, then you would have the same gauges as the GE, plus an EPR gauge.

As for the HondaJet, I am assuming that Honda achieved the additional range by putting more fuel somewhere, as the engines don't seem wildly different, nor were there any other significant changes. I hope they release more details soon.



Gfn8r
Profile for Gfn8r
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 20:36
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Wow! Interesting Q&A!

And some of my smart-assery in my above comments had at least a tiny morsel of truth! (Wish I could go for a Single-Engine VFR rating, but am on two medications which are “grounders,” as even with the new rules, I’d still have to pass a third-class medical, and I’m not comfortable getting into a plane with a JetSki engine (light sport category).)

So the engines on the heavies had different mounts, etc.! Does that require a different type certificate from the FAA? Or is that where 747s, for example, are shown as a 740? (Or does the “type” signify a family of aircraft, e.g., the A320 variants you mentioned, or DC-9/MD-80/Boeing 719?)

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-20-2018 01:32
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Gfn8r wrote:
Wow! Interesting Q&A!

And some of my smart-assery in my above comments had at least a tiny morsel of truth! (Wish I could go for a Single-Engine VFR rating, but am on two medications which are “grounders,” as even with the new rules, I’d still have to pass a third-class medical, and I’m not comfortable getting into a plane with a JetSki engine (light sport category).)

So the engines on the heavies had different mounts, etc.! Does that require a different type certificate from the FAA? Or is that where 747s, for example, are shown as a 740? (Or does the “type” signify a family of aircraft, e.g., the A320 variants you mentioned, or DC-9/MD-80/Boeing 719?)



Not a different type certificate. In fact, the term "type certificate" is pretty broad and since certification is so expensive and time consuming (witness Honda's years long process to get type certificated), it is beneficial to the manufacturers to "amend" a type certificate with a new variant.

As an example, everything in the DC-9 family, which includes the -10 through -50, the MD-80 family, the MD-90 family and the MD-95/Boeing 717 all have the same type certificate, even though there are at least 3 families of different engines, multiple thrust levels within engines, and some FADEC and some non-FADEC engines. In fact, if you compare a DC-9-30 with a 717 (which is approximately the same size as the DC-9-30) you would find more differences than similarities. But in the eyes of the FAA, the 717 is still a DC-9 and still carries the same type certificate and type rating as a DC-9-10 does, with a bunch of differences training. The 737 is another good example. A 737MAX has very little in common with a 737-100, but it is still the same "type" of airplane, though I have heard that the type certificate is not the same as the older ones on the -MAX (I haven't verified that).

GA works the same and the Cessna "172" has had every iteration from A to S or T. For Piper, almost everything they make is considered a "PA28" of some form. Doing this greatly streamlines the cost and complexity of the certification process and that is why airplane families tend to be around for decades. It is also part of the reason why R&D and sales prices are so expensive and why companies no longer tailor make airplanes for small batch orders. It is easier and cheaper to just slightly modify an existing design.



Gfn8r
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Re: HondaJet Elite just announced    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-20-2018 12:56
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Ahh..now I get it! Thanks!

 
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