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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers

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gofast182
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WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 07:09
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Perhaps the pinnacle of all motorsport, every June cars, drivers, and fans descend on Le Mans France for the 24 hour endurance classic. But don't let the name fool you, over the years the Le Mans has turned from an endurance race to a 24 hour sprint race with the best manufacturers bringing their best engineering and their best drivers to fight for ultimate bragging rights.

Some of this year's story lines include: Fernando Alonso going for another element of the "triple crown" by racing with Toyota Gazoo Racing (LMP1), Alonso's former teammate, Jenson Button, will be driving for SMP Racing (LMP1), Jackie Chan DC Racing will look to defend its 2017 title with 4 cars entered (both Oreca and Ligier), and in GTEPro the BMW M8 GTE will make its Le Mans debut!

US TV COVERAGE:
Saturday June 16th, 8:00AM EST, Velocity
(Entire race will be broadcast on Velocity or streaming at motortrend.com or through the MotorTrend app)

CIRCUIT DETAILS:
Length: 8.469 miles
Turns: 38
Full throttle: 85%
Longest flat out section: 1.2mi
Average race speed (LMP1): 140mph
Laps completed (2017 LMP1): 367
Total distance (2017 LMP1): 3,108 miles
Lap record: 3:14.791s, Kamui Kobiashi, Toyota Gazoo Racing, 2017, LMP1

2018 GRID:
LMP1: 10
LMP2: 20
LMGTE Pro: 17
LMGTE Am: 13
Total: 60

2017 WINNERS:
LMP1-H: Porsche LMP Team, Porsche 919 Hybrid
LMP2: Jackie Chan DC Racing, Oreca07/Gibson
LMGTE Pro: Aston Martin Racing, Aston Martin Vantage GTE
LMGTE Am: JMW Motorsport, Ferrari 488 GTE


Dren
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 08:29
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Alonso's car is on provisional pole. The two Toyotas are neck and neck lap time wise. The best non-hybrid LMP1 car is 2 seconds a lap back.
gofast182
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 09:10
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I saw some of those lap times last night. As much as I love endurance racing, LMP1 is horseshi...poop. Leave it to the ACO to have a class where manufacturers are fleeing and only 2/10 entrants have a chance to win (barring unforeseen circumstances).
Midi_Amp
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 10:10
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So what's the point? With Porsche out, the Toyota will win... Perhaps Alonso would love the win, but I don't know, it's sort of given to him.
Dren
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 10:29
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Midi_Amp wrote:
So what's the point? With Porsche out, the Toyota will win... Perhaps Alonso would love the win, but I don't know, it's sort of given to him.


Well, they are clear favorites. They were the faster cars last year and didn't win. There's a chance they'll bin it again this year.

CarPhreakD
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 10:41
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It would be pretty shameful to lose to the "spec racer" LMP2 cars, even though I love the idea of "JACKIE CHAN DC RACING".

For those in the know... how did WEC end up like this? My dream was a Porsche/Peugeot/Audi/Toyota throwdown in LMP1 but it's a one horse race now.

gofast182
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 12:41
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CarPhreakD wrote:
It would be pretty shameful to lose to the "spec racer" LMP2 cars, even though I love the idea of "JACKIE CHAN DC RACING".

For those in the know... how did WEC end up like this? My dream was a Porsche/Peugeot/Audi/Toyota throwdown in LMP1 but it's a one horse race now.


A lot of it has to do with the ACO (and FIA) allowing enviro-political issues to influence motor racing. Those bodies became so desirous that the higher-tech, more environmentally-friendly cars be showcased that they made it nearly impossible for gas-powered cars to compete, much less win. And with the high technology came extremely high cost which limited the [hybrid portion of the] class to just a few manufacturers. Then when the ACO announced that it intended to essentially double-down on the hybrid/fuel saving aspects of the class, some of the players couldn't or didn't want to justify the cost. They've since showed some signs of recanting but the damage was already done.

RolledaNsx
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 12:41
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CarPhreakD wrote:
It would be pretty shameful to lose to the "spec racer" LMP2 cars, even though I love the idea of "JACKIE CHAN DC RACING".

For those in the know... how did WEC end up like this? My dream was a Porsche/Peugeot/Audi/Toyota throwdown in LMP1 but it's a one horse race now.



To win Le Mans it took a big factory effort$$$$$$$(costs more than F1).
So with 2 or more factory teams there are only going to be only one winner and the losers will have a very hard time explaining to the board why they spent $250 million to come first/second/third loser.Also even if you are winning it will still be hard to keep the board to fund the program longer than a few years.

WEC is like Indycar....only one race means anything to the public and manufacturers.

gofast182
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 12:42
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CarPhreakD wrote:
It would be pretty shameful to lose to the "spec racer" LMP2 cars, even though I love the idea of "JACKIE CHAN DC RACING".

For those in the know... how did WEC end up like this? My dream was a Porsche/Peugeot/Audi/Toyota throwdown in LMP1 but it's a one horse race now.


A lot of it has to do with the ACO (and FIA) allowing enviro-political issues to influence motor racing. Those bodies became so desirous that the higher-tech, more environmentally-friendly cars be showcased that they made it nearly impossible for gas-powered cars to compete, much less win. And with the high technology came extremely high cost which limited the [hybrid portion of the] class to just a few manufacturers. Then when the ACO announced that it intended to essentially double-down on the hybrid/fuel saving aspects of the class, some of the players couldn't or didn't want to justify the cost. They've since showed some signs of recanting but the damage was already done.

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 16:23
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gofast182 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
It would be pretty shameful to lose to the "spec racer" LMP2 cars, even though I love the idea of "JACKIE CHAN DC RACING".

For those in the know... how did WEC end up like this? My dream was a Porsche/Peugeot/Audi/Toyota throwdown in LMP1 but it's a one horse race now.


A lot of it has to do with the ACO (and FIA) allowing enviro-political issues to influence motor racing. Those bodies became so desirous that the higher-tech, more environmentally-friendly cars be showcased that they made it nearly impossible for gas-powered cars to compete, much less win. And with the high technology came extremely high cost which limited the [hybrid portion of the] class to just a few manufacturers. Then when the ACO announced that it intended to essentially double-down on the hybrid/fuel saving aspects of the class, some of the players couldn't or didn't want to justify the cost. They've since showed some signs of recanting but the damage was already done.


BTW this is not to suggest that the hybrids aren't great racecars with exceptional engineering behind them. It's that the regs. went so far that only a small group of an already small group of manufacturers could feasibly participate. Meanwhile, teams that were willing and able to run gas powered cars were left largely as participants rather than genuine competitors. This was plain to see and the ACO still attempted to take it further, to illustrate their ineptitude, before the bottom fell out and they had to back off. Let's hope IMSA's success with DPi continues to influence the direction they go with prototype racing as a whole.


CarPhreakD
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 16:26
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Yes well, I mean the hollowing out of LMP1 means that at least for me, about 3/4 of the reason for following WEC is out. IMSA's GT and Prototype classes are more dynamic and interesting for watching.
TaSato
Profile for TaSato
Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 23:24
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2018 Le Mans - combined Practice & Qualifying Fastest Laps

Le Mans (13.626 km) Lap Times

LMP1-Hybrid Toyota TS050 V6 Turbo (#8) _ 3:15.377

LMP1 Oreca R13-Gibson V8 (#3) _ 3:18.252

LMP1 Dallara BR1-AER V6 Turbo (#17) _ 3:19.483

LMP1 Dallara BR1-Gibson V8 (#10) _ 3:20.322

LMP1 CLM P1/01-Nismo Cosworth V6 Turbo (#4) _ 3:20.911

LMP1 Ginetta G60-Mecachrome V6 Turbo (#6) _ 3:23.757

LMP2 Oreca 07-Gibson V8 (#28) _ 3:24.816

LMGTE Porsche 911 RSR F6 (#91) _ 3:47.504

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEn2jnyTkn4
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/06/15/toyota-on-pole-as-penalties-rock-lmp2.html
http://www.dailysportscar.com/category/fia-wec
http://sportscar365.com/category/lemans/lemans24/
http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/


Power to Weight (with driver) Ratio

LMP1-Hybrid: 1000 HP / 958 kg = 1.04 HP / kg

LMP1: 700 HP / 913 kg = 0.77 HP / kg

LMP2: 600 HP / 1010 kg = 0.59 HP / kg

LMGTE: 500 HP / 1325 kg = 0.38 HP / kg




LMP1




LMP2


LMGTE




CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 08:41
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I think I already asked this before but does anyone have any more info on the Gibson V8? That's a hell of a spec engine.
gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 12:39
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http://www.gibsontech.co.uk/engines/gk428

4.2L 90 degree V8 producing 600hp, direct injection, Cosworth ECU. Developed over two years and first raced in official competition in 2017. It is believed to be based on a previous V8 to keep costs down.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Race Day    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-16-2018 08:26
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The funny thought just now was if Alonso's Toyota should explode while he's driving he would have the Triple Crown of Race Retirements.

Let's hope his day goes well.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-16-2018 08:42
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4.2l, is it related to the Audi V8, which was originally designed for Mugen?
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-16-2018 12:41
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Looks like Button's SMP car lost power and is now in last place in the field. I hope he at least gets to drive it!
Grace141
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 09:24
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Wonderful finish for Toyota. I thought it was cool of the team to let Nakajima finish for the win too. Alonso was very quick in the car and I thought he looked great during the overnight stint he pulled.
gofast182
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 13:48
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I've never been a Toyota fan but I was glad to see their struggles and persistence rewarded. Given how long they've been working toward this goal, I was glad to see both cars have a Japanese driver at the helm for the finish. I was even happy for Alonso; although he didn't beat any real competition he drove hard and showed that taking part in, let alone winning, a 24hr race is hard work.

Nice battles in GTE Pro. I would've liked to see the #63 Corvette and the BMWs in it, too, but a combination of BoP for the former and new platform teething issues for the latter held them back (also it looked like Ferrari got the shaft in terms of BoP). Still, it was so cool to see those retro-liveried cars on top.

Glad to see Dempsey Proton racing take the win in GTE Am.

First time seeing/watching Eurosport coverage for anything. For the first couple hours I didn't like the commentators but by the evening I realized they were funny as hell (not necessarily in a laugh out loud way but, really enjoyable to listen to).

CarPhreakD
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 12:00
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Yeah but the victory seems a bit hollow because Toyota was racing itself (and the track), and not against other teams.

There's a bit of rules stupidity too, one thing I did not realize was that there was a max stint limit. Which makes me wonder what the heck the point is in even having endurance racing vehicles. Toyota nearly won Le Mans one year by going a lap further per stint than Porsche, and that would not have been possible this year. I was so confused when Toyota missed their pit window and had to serve separate penalties for it.

Dren
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 12:58
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I agree, I think that's stupid as well. I also think the non-hybrid cars are not allowed to go faster than the hybrids, even if they could. The rules are just really baffling.
Grace141
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 12:59
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Yeah but the victory seems a bit hollow because Toyota was racing itself (and the track), and not against other teams.

There's a bit of rules stupidity too, one thing I did not realize was that there was a max stint limit. Which makes me wonder what the heck the point is in even having endurance racing vehicles. Toyota nearly won Le Mans one year by going a lap further per stint than Porsche, and that would not have been possible this year. I was so confused when Toyota missed their pit window and had to serve separate penalties for it.


No one complained much about Audi dominating Le Mans for the better part of a decade. There would be several hollow victories for them in that run. It's a solid 1-2 victory for Toyota for 2018 then.

I understand the idea behind the maximum number of laps per stint in trying to even the playing field for all of the teams in each class but I don't think it's a good idea either. I'd think one possibility is the teams can turn up the wick even more due to refueling their cars every eleven laps. Toyota claimed they had to run the #8 car on electric only for its one lap 12 due to it being out of fuel. That seems odd though. Efficiency has always been a hallmark of the race so maybe a set minimum number of laps per stint would be a better idea.

CarPhreakD
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 13:22
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Speaking personally, I didn't complain about Audi back then because I simply wasn't interested in the competition at that time. It was fun and interesting when Peugeot was around, and I hit peak interest when Porsche came back.

That's not taking anything away from Toyota, the only thing I'm saying is that it was a boring LMP1 race.

gofast182
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Re: WEC - 2018 24 Hours of Le Mans - Spoilers    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 13:48
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Grace141 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Yeah but the victory seems a bit hollow because Toyota was racing itself (and the track), and not against other teams.

There's a bit of rules stupidity too, one thing I did not realize was that there was a max stint limit. Which makes me wonder what the heck the point is in even having endurance racing vehicles. Toyota nearly won Le Mans one year by going a lap further per stint than Porsche, and that would not have been possible this year. I was so confused when Toyota missed their pit window and had to serve separate penalties for it.


No one complained much about Audi dominating Le Mans for the better part of a decade. There would be several hollow victories for them in that run. It's a solid 1-2 victory for Toyota for 2018 then.

I understand the idea behind the maximum number of laps per stint in trying to even the playing field for all of the teams in each class but I don't think it's a good idea either. I'd think one possibility is the teams can turn up the wick even more due to refueling their cars every eleven laps. Toyota claimed they had to run the #8 car on electric only for its one lap 12 due to it being out of fuel. That seems odd though. Efficiency has always been a hallmark of the race so maybe a set minimum number of laps per stint would be a better idea.


Only partially true re: Audi. If you're going back 10 years to the diesel era they had actual competition in Peugeot with the 908 HDi FAP. And by the time hybrids were introduced, Toyota was there from the beginning. So I'm struggling to think of a year it was just Audi with no one who could *realistically* challenge.


 
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