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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos

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Civicb18
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Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 22:05
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Mikeydred wrote:
I like many on here have been critical of Acura as well especially for this generation of cost cutting products compared to the previous versions yet we still purchased a top level MDX as it was the right product for our family needs.
I personally just want to see Acura succeed, but we have had several years of disappointment and failed promises/rumors that its understandable to be pessimistic. The point is, if the RDX signals a new revival for Acura than I am all for it, but the designs have to be well executed and performance at a class competitive level. It is much easier to make a successful SUV as styling is not the highest priority and you can do more with packaging to work around a "less than desirable" chasis/drivetrainp.
For the sedans, I can care less which wheels are driving the car but the design has to be good/head turning and I agree RWD offers the best proportions but again Volvo and most Audi's prove you can still have good design, driving dynamics aside as RWD doesn't guarantee good driving dynamics either. I personally always preferred AWD anyways as I live in the the NE and as I stated before most companies are going AWD anyways as it's the best way to put down power. Also AWD doesn't have the same fuel penalties that it was did now that other technologies and engine advancements have made vehicles more fuel efficient.
Acura has been taunting performance the last 12 to 18 months or so, the RDX is the first under their new direction and appears to be a universal success (hopefully quality issues don't pop up to kill hype). Let's see what they can do with a clean sheet on a sedan before we say all is doom, maybe they have a trick or two up their sleeve.
Side note at least we are getting a next generation gas engine from Honda when most companies are starting to chase electric.




I think there has to be a balance of attributes. Styling is one thing and driving dynamics are another as well as the things in between. I think Acura has the chance to really show consumers they can build a competitive performance luxury application and the RDX is a great start.

You mentioned Volvo, their styling has improved greatly but their drivetrains need work in regards to power delivery and refinement. Driving dynamics are average, nothing special.



bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 23:13
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Mikeydred wrote:
I like many on here have been critical of Acura as well especially for this generation of cost cutting products compared to the previous versions yet we still purchased a top level MDX as it was the right product for our family needs.
I personally just want to see Acura succeed, but we have had several years of disappointment and failed promises/rumors that its understandable to be pessimistic. The point is, if the RDX signals a new revival for Acura than I am all for it, but the designs have to be well executed and performance at a class competitive level. It is much easier to make a successful SUV as styling is not the highest priority and you can do more with packaging to work around a "less than desirable" chasis/drivetrainp.
For the sedans, I can care less which wheels are driving the car but the design has to be good/head turning and I agree RWD offers the best proportions but again Volvo and most Audi's prove you can still have good design, driving dynamics aside as RWD doesn't guarantee good driving dynamics either. I personally always preferred AWD anyways as I live in the the NE and as I stated before most companies are going AWD anyways as it's the best way to put down power. Also AWD doesn't have the same fuel penalties that it was did now that other technologies and engine advancements have made vehicles more fuel efficient.
Acura has been taunting performance the last 12 to 18 months or so, the RDX is the first under their new direction and appears to be a universal success (hopefully quality issues don't pop up to kill hype). Let's see what they can do with a clean sheet on a sedan before we say all is doom, maybe they have a trick or two up their sleeve.
Side note at least we are getting a next generation gas engine from Honda when most companies are starting to chase electric.




Well said Mikey. The RDX is the first fully redesigned vehicle after Acuras commitment to Precision Crafted Performance, and if it can take a top luxury compact crossover and make it better, it should be able to do even greater improvements for the sedans.

Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 23:53
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Civicb18 wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
I like many on here have been critical of Acura as well especially for this generation of cost cutting products compared to the previous versions yet we still purchased a top level MDX as it was the right product for our family needs.
I personally just want to see Acura succeed, but we have had several years of disappointment and failed promises/rumors that its understandable to be pessimistic. The point is, if the RDX signals a new revival for Acura than I am all for it, but the designs have to be well executed and performance at a class competitive level. It is much easier to make a successful SUV as styling is not the highest priority and you can do more with packaging to work around a "less than desirable" chasis/drivetrainp.
For the sedans, I can care less which wheels are driving the car but the design has to be good/head turning and I agree RWD offers the best proportions but again Volvo and most Audi's prove you can still have good design, driving dynamics aside as RWD doesn't guarantee good driving dynamics either. I personally always preferred AWD anyways as I live in the the NE and as I stated before most companies are going AWD anyways as it's the best way to put down power. Also AWD doesn't have the same fuel penalties that it was did now that other technologies and engine advancements have made vehicles more fuel efficient.
Acura has been taunting performance the last 12 to 18 months or so, the RDX is the first under their new direction and appears to be a universal success (hopefully quality issues don't pop up to kill hype). Let's see what they can do with a clean sheet on a sedan before we say all is doom, maybe they have a trick or two up their sleeve.
Side note at least we are getting a next generation gas engine from Honda when most companies are starting to chase electric.




I think there has to be a balance of attributes. Styling is one thing and driving dynamics are another as well as the things in between. I think Acura has the chance to really show consumers they can build a competitive performance luxury application and the RDX is a great start.

You mentioned Volvo, their styling has improved greatly but their drivetrains need work in regards to power delivery and refinement. Driving dynamics are average, nothing special.




Again, just comparing styling, V90 and S90 gorgeous, but S60 doesn't look as promising. Personally, I think Volvo's are too over complicated powertrain wise and I haven't sat in any since the XC90 made our shortlist, but there were questionable materials for the premium they were asking, not to mention XC90 being near the bottom in reliability multiple years.

When it comes to Acura, I'm talking in respect to V6 turbo wrapped in Volvo or Audi like proportions as RWD ain't happening as much as we want it and RWD doesn't guarantee great driving dynamics although it's a simpler route agreed. It's all about packaging and finding the right balance, again if they can somehow achieve 55/45 split by repacking components while gaining better proportions it would go long way. But if we are only getting illusions of better proportions by playing around with the A pillar, bumpers etc. and dash to axle ratio is still the same as current Accord or Mazda etc, then they haven't learned anything.

If Acura goes back to its roots they will be fine and will win out in many comparisons IMO, the 4G is universally panned but spending much time in the TLX as loaners there is nothing that makes me want to upgrade, everything about it feels cheaper compared to both TL and TSX. If they go back to benchmarking the top products in their segments "building to a standard and not a price" then I think they can be successful in whatever path they choose to get there. Typically don't post long but excited of what's to come. Hope to see more spyshots and insider tidbits over the next few months.

saitamahonda
Profile for saitamahonda
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 01:33
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Reminds me of the TLX-L but in that version I believe the rear door was lengthened to accommodate increased rear leg room.

If I were Honda/Acura I would put a small petrol engine with a hybrid system or a complete electric system. I imagine the ICE will be small and lightweight making room for in-wheel motor cabling or an electric motor unit and an energy store. Trickling in Formula 1 technologies into Acura products would rekindle the attractiveness of Honda's performance line up, especially as they start to look stronger and stronger in the sport.

Honda/Acura's lack of participation in Formula E is a bit concerning as there could easily be technologies and learnings that could be applied to road cars. I fear in order for Acura to be a bonafide luxury marquee, the will need to produce an electric vehicle soon. This TLX could be the perfect market segment to introduce a car slightly better than the Model 3 but less expensive than the Model S. C'mon Acura, you can do it. Put your heart into it.

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 10:06
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CarPhreakD wrote:
48V systems currently use a belt system generator (start/stop) and/or brake regen. I don't expect them to employ some sort of F1 style turbine recovery system.


I just looked up the Audi SQ7 TDI 4.0L set-up. It's pretty interesting. The e-compressor is attached right at the intercooler outlet. It runs two turbos, one affixed to one set of exhaust valves and one to the other. The cams activate one or two exhaust valve operation which determines one or two turbine mode. It's a hot V set-up, too. I didn't know this existed.



CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 11:53
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Yes, it's like an extreme form of economy VTEC.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 19:09
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Another thought for next RLX and MDX.

RLX/MDX base model... 2.0T/eCharger(330-350 hp) ,48V micro hybrid(belt),0.3KWH battery , 10-AT rear bias SH-AWD

RLX/MDX V6 model.....3.0T(360-400 hp) , full hybrid(flywheel eMotor/Generator), new trans(8-DCT)? , 1.3 KWH battery, eSH-AWD(front TMU... 70 hp) That would explain the more space needed upfront.So all the ICE power goes to the rear tires.
around 450 HP TOTAL
????

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 19:22
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4 cylinders in large expensive sedans or SUV's is a terrible idea, there was never any issue with the 6 cylinders they have now accept they were not premium enough.

6 cylinder hybrids are not selling for luxury cars, 4 cylinder hybrid luxury vehicles will do even worse.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 20:05
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lexusgs wrote:
4 cylinders in large expensive sedans or SUV's is a terrible idea, there was never any issue with the 6 cylinders they have now accept they were not premium enough.

6 cylinder hybrids are not selling for luxury cars, 4 cylinder hybrid luxury vehicles will do even worse.



It looks like your a dinosaur(stuck in the past).Almost all core models(non-Hybrid/BEV) will have to go 48V Micro Hybrid because 12V doesn't work too well with turning off the engine and restarting every time you stop.We all do not like what is happening but it will happen but there will still be Models sold NA(cheap little cars and Limited Halo Models).After 2021 you use a high rev NA Engine it will need to be Hybrid to be sold and it will need to be a limited model unless your GM/Ford/Toyota/ VW and Korean Auto because they can handle selling more without the World GOV hitting them with fines.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 00:32
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Fitdad wrote:
None of this makes any sense.

If they wanted a test bed for the new V6 why not use the new RDX? It can fit the new V6 right? Why extend the front on a current TLX like this? For that matter why does the front need extended? The dash/axle ratio on the RDX is about the same as itís ever been and weíve been told the new V6 fits in. Do they have multiple versions of the V6 coming with more than just differences in tuning? That also makes zero sense given everything we know about Acura.

And why make the MDX materially different from the RDX? That is where they make their money. Longer front subframe sounds dumb and pointless and needlessly costly on your main profit-driver. Just make a bigger RDX and print money with it.

Since nobody actually knows my crazy theory is as follows: the next gen TLX gets a smaller exterior but mostly maintains interior volume (bigger wheelbase) and moves to the new RDX platform with pricing and variants much the same as now - ad a Turbo 6 at the top and a 2.0t instead of the J - but itís a traditional sedan - itís size will appeal to ILX and TLX owners, plus Acura will bring the CDX over for those who want something truly small. TLX runs $33k-$55k. The ILX gets cancelled and the Integra hatch returns - but itís a long layout and itís ABOVE the TLX and starts north of $40k (think S5 Sportback). Itís got the Pikes Peak RDX powertrain standard with a 3.0t option. Call it $45k-$60k. Then the Legend returns on the same long platform as the Integra to replace the RLX. 3.0t standard. 500 hp 3.0t Sport Hybrid option. $65-$85k. MDX is on the RDX platform.

TL,DR: Acura combines the ILX/TLX on the RDX platform and brings back the Integra and Legend as their top two non-SUVs above the TLX on a shared long platform with relatively low production numbers.

Basically Acura gets the Integra instead of Honda getting the S2000 and they get the Legend as a bonus. The mule weíre seeing is the Integra 3.0t powertrain as it would be about the same size as a current TLX.



Why did Honda chop up a CRX as an NSX development mule, why did they chop up an S2K as an NSX replacement development mule and why did they chop up a 2nd gen TSX as the RWD RL development mule back in 2008?

They did it to put a butchered body on a car so they could test whatever it was they wanted to test without revealing too much.

Probably the case here too.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 01:24
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RolledaNsx wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
4 cylinders in large expensive sedans or SUV's is a terrible idea, there was never any issue with the 6 cylinders they have now accept they were not premium enough.

6 cylinder hybrids are not selling for luxury cars, 4 cylinder hybrid luxury vehicles will do even worse.



It looks like your a dinosaur(stuck in the past).Almost all core models(non-Hybrid/BEV) will have to go 48V Micro Hybrid because 12V doesn't work too well with turning off the engine and restarting every time you stop.We all do not like what is happening but it will happen but there will still be Models sold NA(cheap little cars and Limited Halo Models).After 2021 you use a high rev NA Engine it will need to be Hybrid to be sold and it will need to be a limited model unless your GM/Ford/Toyota/ VW and Korean Auto because they can handle selling more without the World GOV hitting them with fines.


Nope, no dinosaur, just pointing out more of your really awful suggestions and explaining why they are terrible ideas. I am probably much younger then you not that age really matters in these arguments.

The hybrid stuff may need to happen in Europe sooner but not in the US and other markets, Acura is non existent in basically all of Europe so they don't have to ruin their cars in the US with silly 4cyl hybrids in large vehicles for a almost non existent European market. Do they even sell the MDX or RLX as Honda's in Europe now?

The hybrid MDX despite being a relatively small premium over the base MDX still does not even sell in large numbers in the US, I have not seen a single one on the road yet. I think they made a huge mistake not putting the 3.5 in it and cranking it up to 400hp where then it likely would be a much bigger seller and more desirable.

I am sure automakers in the future can still offer larger/higher cylinder count engines in Europe that they can add the mild hybrids to or else Mercedes would not have come out with a brand new inline 6 and 4.0L tt 8 cylinder. I doubt the V8 is going away for the S class, 7 series, 8 series, and other higher end vehicles so they all are not going just 4cyl hybrid with ultra rare 6 cylinders being the top option.


Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 04:19
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owequitit wrote:
Fitdad wrote:
None of this makes any sense.

If they wanted a test bed for the new V6 why not use the new RDX? It can fit the new V6 right? Why extend the front on a current TLX like this? For that matter why does the front need extended? The dash/axle ratio on the RDX is about the same as itís ever been and weíve been told the new V6 fits in. Do they have multiple versions of the V6 coming with more than just differences in tuning? That also makes zero sense given everything we know about Acura.

And why make the MDX materially different from the RDX? That is where they make their money. Longer front subframe sounds dumb and pointless and needlessly costly on your main profit-driver. Just make a bigger RDX and print money with it.

Since nobody actually knows my crazy theory is as follows: the next gen TLX gets a smaller exterior but mostly maintains interior volume (bigger wheelbase) and moves to the new RDX platform with pricing and variants much the same as now - ad a Turbo 6 at the top and a 2.0t instead of the J - but itís a traditional sedan - itís size will appeal to ILX and TLX owners, plus Acura will bring the CDX over for those who want something truly small. TLX runs $33k-$55k. The ILX gets cancelled and the Integra hatch returns - but itís a long layout and itís ABOVE the TLX and starts north of $40k (think S5 Sportback). Itís got the Pikes Peak RDX powertrain standard with a 3.0t option. Call it $45k-$60k. Then the Legend returns on the same long platform as the Integra to replace the RLX. 3.0t standard. 500 hp 3.0t Sport Hybrid option. $65-$85k. MDX is on the RDX platform.

TL,DR: Acura combines the ILX/TLX on the RDX platform and brings back the Integra and Legend as their top two non-SUVs above the TLX on a shared long platform with relatively low production numbers.

Basically Acura gets the Integra instead of Honda getting the S2000 and they get the Legend as a bonus. The mule weíre seeing is the Integra 3.0t powertrain as it would be about the same size as a current TLX.



Why did Honda chop up a CRX as an NSX development mule, why did they chop up an S2K as an NSX replacement development mule and why did they chop up a 2nd gen TSX as the RWD RL development mule back in 2008?

They did it to put a butchered body on a car so they could test whatever it was they wanted to test without revealing too much.

Probably the case here too.



Indeed!

Remember the first BRZ86 was running under a cut n' shut Legacy shell, which made for excellent headroom but looked rather odd.

They may want to test the entire 'front-end' systems, not just the engine.

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 06:25
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Fitdad wrote:
None of this makes any sense.

If they wanted a test bed for the new V6 why not use the new RDX? It can fit the new V6 right? Why extend the front on a current TLX like this? For that matter why does the front need extended? The dash/axle ratio on the RDX is about the same as itís ever been and weíve been told the new V6 fits in. Do they have multiple versions of the V6 coming with more than just differences in tuning? That also makes zero sense given everything we know about Acura.

And why make the MDX materially different from the RDX? That is where they make their money. Longer front subframe sounds dumb and pointless and needlessly costly on your main profit-driver. Just make a bigger RDX and print money with it.

Since nobody actually knows my crazy theory is as follows: the next gen TLX gets a smaller exterior but mostly maintains interior volume (bigger wheelbase) and moves to the new RDX platform with pricing and variants much the same as now - ad a Turbo 6 at the top and a 2.0t instead of the J - but itís a traditional sedan - itís size will appeal to ILX and TLX owners, plus Acura will bring the CDX over for those who want something truly small. TLX runs $33k-$55k. The ILX gets cancelled and the Integra hatch returns - but itís a long layout and itís ABOVE the TLX and starts north of $40k (think S5 Sportback). Itís got the Pikes Peak RDX powertrain standard with a 3.0t option. Call it $45k-$60k. Then the Legend returns on the same long platform as the Integra to replace the RLX. 3.0t standard. 500 hp 3.0t Sport Hybrid option. $65-$85k. MDX is on the RDX platform.

TL,DR: Acura combines the ILX/TLX on the RDX platform and brings back the Integra and Legend as their top two non-SUVs above the TLX on a shared long platform with relatively low production numbers.

Basically Acura gets the Integra instead of Honda getting the S2000 and they get the Legend as a bonus. The mule weíre seeing is the Integra 3.0t powertrain as it would be about the same size as a current TLX.




Acura is testing the V6 in the TLX mules because 1). it will be the first Acura to get the all new V6 and 2.) the RDX platform and the TLX platform arenít the same. The RDX-S will get the 3.0t AFTER the TLX.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 10:20
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Lots of interesting conjecture about this mule. I am a bit encouraged by the seemingly stretched dash to axle ratio. I will draw no further conclusions about what Acura is doing until the picture comes into more focus.

Regarding base models potentially retaining FWD, I would say it is acceptable provided the styling and proportions hit the correct marks. I have no doubt Honda knows how to make the most out of FWD...for base lux models (still rather see RWD setup). For the upper/performance trims, it will be interesting to see what they do. Tread carefully, Acura...



Archknight77
Profile for Archknight77
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 12:23
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I have a feeling Acura is moving in the same direction as Audi with the engine being mounted longitudinally for sedans. This TLX mule hints at how they started with the Legend and the old RL/TL models. They'll likely have sportier more balanced models, if this is the case. I just wish they would introduce another model soon, as I'm only interested in a sedan or 5-door model.

When they did the presentation showing the Integra and RSX models, I don't think they'll leave out the subcompact class--they need something to compete with the A-class line and A3. The TLX will have to move up the scale in price with the next generation, so having something in the low 30s is where the ILX (or its replacement) will come in. It's been stated that the sedans/coupes will be on a different platform from the CUV/SUV models, and they were working on the replacements for all 3 sedans simultaneously. There is a good chance the smallest model will be introduced in a few months without the option of ever getting the V6, but upgraded versions of the 2.0T.

Archknight77
Profile for Archknight77
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 12:23
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I have a feeling Acura is moving in the same direction as Audi with the engine being mounted longitudinally for sedans. This TLX mule hints at how they started with the Legend and the old RL/TL models. They'll likely have sportier more balanced models, if this is the case. I just wish they would introduce another model soon, as I'm only interested in a sedan or 5-door model.

When they did the presentation showing the Integra and RSX models, I don't think they'll leave out the subcompact class--they need something to compete with the A-class line and A3. The TLX will have to move up the scale in price with the next generation, so having something in the low 30s is where the ILX (or its replacement) will come in. It's been stated that the sedans/coupes will be on a different platform from the CUV/SUV models, and they were working on the replacements for all 3 sedans simultaneously. There is a good chance the smallest model will be introduced in a few months without the option of ever getting the V6, but upgraded versions of the 2.0T.

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 14:30
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Archknight77 wrote:
I have a feeling Acura is moving in the same direction as Audi with the engine being mounted longitudinally for sedans. This TLX mule hints at how they started with the Legend and the old RL/TL models. They'll likely have sportier more balanced models, if this is the case. I just wish they would introduce another model soon, as I'm only interested in a sedan or 5-door model.

When they did the presentation showing the Integra and RSX models, I don't think they'll leave out the subcompact class--they need something to compete with the A-class line and A3. The TLX will have to move up the scale in price with the next generation, so having something in the low 30s is where the ILX (or its replacement) will come in. It's been stated that the sedans/coupes will be on a different platform from the CUV/SUV models, and they were working on the replacements for all 3 sedans simultaneously. There is a good chance the smallest model will be introduced in a few months without the option of ever getting the V6, but upgraded versions of the 2.0T.



Iím not seeing the longitudinal layout and Iím going by the diagram I sent to Jeff. The 10ATís in that diagrams are FWD transmissions.

But yes, Iím in full agreement on the TLX moving up the pricing ladder and being priced in line with the RDX in terms of trims and AWD. It would still undercut the competition by a few thousand even with all the upgrades vs the current TLX. That would certainly give the next ILX more room to breathe.


Archknight77
Profile for Archknight77
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 14:42
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Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
I have a feeling Acura is moving in the same direction as Audi with the engine being mounted longitudinally for sedans. This TLX mule hints at how they started with the Legend and the old RL/TL models. They'll likely have sportier more balanced models, if this is the case. I just wish they would introduce another model soon, as I'm only interested in a sedan or 5-door model.

When they did the presentation showing the Integra and RSX models, I don't think they'll leave out the subcompact class--they need something to compete with the A-class line and A3. The TLX will have to move up the scale in price with the next generation, so having something in the low 30s is where the ILX (or its replacement) will come in. It's been stated that the sedans/coupes will be on a different platform from the CUV/SUV models, and they were working on the replacements for all 3 sedans simultaneously. There is a good chance the smallest model will be introduced in a few months without the option of ever getting the V6, but upgraded versions of the 2.0T.



Iím not seeing the longitudinal layout and Iím going by the diagram I sent to Jeff. The 10ATís in that diagrams are FWD transmissions.

But yes, Iím in full agreement on the TLX moving up the pricing ladder and being priced in line with the RDX in terms of trims and AWD. It would still undercut the competition by a few thousand even with all the upgrades vs the current TLX. That would certainly give the next ILX more room to breathe.




Thanks for the insight on that. So what do you suppose all the additional room in the engine bay is for?

Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-17-2018 18:01
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Archknight77 wrote:
Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
I have a feeling Acura is moving in the same direction as Audi with the engine being mounted longitudinally for sedans. This TLX mule hints at how they started with the Legend and the old RL/TL models. They'll likely have sportier more balanced models, if this is the case. I just wish they would introduce another model soon, as I'm only interested in a sedan or 5-door model.

When they did the presentation showing the Integra and RSX models, I don't think they'll leave out the subcompact class--they need something to compete with the A-class line and A3. The TLX will have to move up the scale in price with the next generation, so having something in the low 30s is where the ILX (or its replacement) will come in. It's been stated that the sedans/coupes will be on a different platform from the CUV/SUV models, and they were working on the replacements for all 3 sedans simultaneously. There is a good chance the smallest model will be introduced in a few months without the option of ever getting the V6, but upgraded versions of the 2.0T.



Iím not seeing the longitudinal layout and Iím going by the diagram I sent to Jeff. The 10ATís in that diagrams are FWD transmissions.

But yes, Iím in full agreement on the TLX moving up the pricing ladder and being priced in line with the RDX in terms of trims and AWD. It would still undercut the competition by a few thousand even with all the upgrades vs the current TLX. That would certainly give the next ILX more room to breathe.




Thanks for the insight on that. So what do you suppose all the additional room in the engine bay is for?



V6 turbo and hybrid components. Iím thinking this platform will be used under the next gen TLX and RLX.

longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 00:16
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RolledaNsx wrote:
So it looks like from the clues(Spy pics and patents) that the RDX,RLX and MDX will be built off the the same platform with the RLX and MDX having a new longer front Sub-Frame.That means all three can be built off the same production line and the MDX can/will be bigger than the RDX.

The new V-6 Turbo will be the most advance production engine that Honda ever delivered.

So it looks like the new V6 will be transverse and that means it will only have one turbo(very bad lag) because two turbos do not work in transverse(heat and space).
The single turbo will most likely will be above the trans(either end of block is the only place to put it to get equal length exhaust pipes).
The single turbo will mean it will need a eSupercharger to fix the lag(48V).

BUT WAIT... Honda could be thinking like they was in the 80's-90's with them bringing F1 Tech to production engines(VTEC,Ti rods and 8000 redline in 1990).

Will they use a F1 like Spit-Turbo(compressor on one end with the turbine on the other)?
The compressor would have a eMotor to spin it in the low rev range(this would be a better system than a complete Turbocharger and an eSupercharger because the F1 system would need less parts and plumbing).




Add the TLX too, four of Acura's main selling lines are on the same bespoke platform. That spreads the costs and up the profit per vehicle.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 17:07
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Civicb18 wrote:
Archknight77 wrote:
I have a feeling Acura is moving in the same direction as Audi with the engine being mounted longitudinally for sedans. This TLX mule hints at how they started with the Legend and the old RL/TL models. They'll likely have sportier more balanced models, if this is the case. I just wish they would introduce another model soon, as I'm only interested in a sedan or 5-door model.

When they did the presentation showing the Integra and RSX models, I don't think they'll leave out the subcompact class--they need something to compete with the A-class line and A3. The TLX will have to move up the scale in price with the next generation, so having something in the low 30s is where the ILX (or its replacement) will come in. It's been stated that the sedans/coupes will be on a different platform from the CUV/SUV models, and they were working on the replacements for all 3 sedans simultaneously. There is a good chance the smallest model will be introduced in a few months without the option of ever getting the V6, but upgraded versions of the 2.0T.



Iím not seeing the longitudinal layout and Iím going by the diagram I sent to Jeff. The 10ATís in that diagrams are FWD transmissions.

But yes, Iím in full agreement on the TLX moving up the pricing ladder and being priced in line with the RDX in terms of trims and AWD. It would still undercut the competition by a few thousand even with all the upgrades vs the current TLX. That would certainly give the next ILX more room to breathe.



Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.

If Acura continues to pussy foot and hold back on platforms then they create a major problem and paradox for themselves, they can't raise prices by much because people simply won't pay those prices for cars based on family sedans and are not very competitive and they don't want to spend much on other areas of the compromised cars like interiors/luxury because they know deep down buyers still won't spend the money on them unless they come at a great bargain.

The ILX is a dud, a embarrassment, a failure, can't see them actually trying to do another one. If the TLX is just on another FWD trans platform, has 4cyl engines from a Accord then it is low end enough. They don't anything below it when it comes to a sedan, Americans don't like small cramped sedans, that would likely be the only thing that separates a 4cyl trans FWD ILX from a 4cyl trans FWD TLX, sort of like the issue the ILX and TLX already have where the 4cyl TLX eats into ILX sales.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 17:23
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lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 19:04
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TonyEX wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.



I fully agree with you Tony. Most luxury sedan buyers would not rule out a vehicle based upon FWD vs RWD. The primary situation where this might come into play would be the many parts of the US having winters with snow where those buyers would rule out a vehicle that is RWD only. I also agree that the sedans styling is a key factor in this segment.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 00:40
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TonyEX wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.



More slanted truth.

1) Acura's sales and market share have both slid significantly since that '00 TL. I would say that just throwing features and a badge at an Accord has truly and unquestionably NOT worked out. How many more generations of product have to fail before guys like you (but more importantly the people who matter inside Honda) get it?

2) There just isn't much prestige in the Acura brand at this point, sad as that is to say. Ask most people to name the top 10 luxury brands, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear a majority not even mention Acura.

3) I agree that BMW is far from the end all be all, but it is pretty hard to criticize their engineering prowess when they have long made some of the fastest and most dynamically capable sedans on the planet while Acura can't even successfully get above 300HP. It's also hard to criticize it based on performance when BMW's turbo four is on par with Acura's best V6 and the 6 cylinder BMW is a measurable amount beyond it, to say nothing of M cars.

But, really, BMW is a bad example because they are also in the same cycle that Honda is with Acura in that they are threatened with irrelevance based on straying from what made them great in the interest of driving volume above all else. The only difference is that Acura has already largely become irrelevant, especially to the enthusiast.

4) Lease rates on all cars in all competitive segments are pretty much all within the same ballpark, so you aren't putting a lot of extra money out when you lease a 328i or 335i vs a TLX. And you don't care about the long term stuff because you are probably going to get rid of it at the end of the lease anyway.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 01:06
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TonyEX wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.


How do you even know that, most men, even non enthusiasts who purchase cars know what wheels are being driven, especially on a more expensive luxury car.

Again, you don't know and are just spouting bullshit to try to argue, the RLX is a nice looking car, nobody buys it, the TLX is nice looking and is having some trouble, Mazda 6 looks very good yet sells poorly. You don't get really good looking sexy sedans on FWD trans platforms.

How do you build prestige? Is it by only selling compromised cars on FWD family sedan platforms with a V6 from the Honda lineup, cost cut interiors, and fake wood trim where reviewers point out their humble meager Honda family sedan/econo car roots in every review? Nope, that is a recipe for grinding away any prestige you had more and more with each generation you do that. You get prestige by building high end cars consistently with little to no compromises, going overboard on power/features/engines, etc that get good reviews.

BMW sells cars by consistently building Tier 1 cars on non compromised platforms, getting great reviews, and giving customers what they want, not telling them what they don't need and cutting costs everywhere they can and holding back.

Lexus sells cars by multiple generations of a Tier 1 flagship sedans/vehicles and consistent high ratings from Consumer reports and other sources. The LS and other Tier 1 cars over the years helps them sell very boring cars like the ES and RX.

Marketing does not sell cars, cars do. You can have the best marketing in the world but if a buyer gets in a car and sees how chintzy the interior is, drives it and thinks it drives more like a family sedan and does not think it is worth the money or there is nothing to get excited about then it won't sell. I pretty much never see S class, Ferrari, Porsche, Bentley, or Lamborghini commercials yet they are successful, the vehicles sell themselves.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 01:26
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bnilhome wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.



I fully agree with you Tony. Most luxury sedan buyers would not rule out a vehicle based upon FWD vs RWD. The primary situation where this might come into play would be the many parts of the US having winters with snow where those buyers would rule out a vehicle that is RWD only. I also agree that the sedans styling is a key factor in this segment.


Not true at all, luxury buyers have been ruling out FWD Acuras for a decade and going with RWD competitors. They have been doing the same thing with FWD Saabs, Lincolns, and Volvo's. How do you think a FWD S class, 3 series, 7 series would sell if with the prestige of those companies? Sales would collapse.

Winter driving needing AWD/FWD is another myth. AWD options on most luxury cars was pretty rare until about 10 years ago, buyers for the past several decades were buying plenty of RWD cars without AWD in winter states and getting around just fine, it has no real impact on whether someone will buy a vehicle or not. Most luxury makers don't charge a big premium for adding awd so many buyers end up choosing it if they live in states that have snow in the winter but it is not a deal breaker for most buyers if it doesn't have it especially with modern tires and traction control systems.

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 08:11
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lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.



I fully agree with you Tony. Most luxury sedan buyers would not rule out a vehicle based upon FWD vs RWD. The primary situation where this might come into play would be the many parts of the US having winters with snow where those buyers would rule out a vehicle that is RWD only. I also agree that the sedans styling is a key factor in this segment.


Not true at all, luxury buyers have been ruling out FWD Acuras for a decade and going with RWD competitors. They have been doing the same thing with FWD Saabs, Lincolns, and Volvo's. How do you think a FWD S class, 3 series, 7 series would sell if with the prestige of those companies? Sales would collapse.

Winter driving needing AWD/FWD is another myth. AWD options on most luxury cars was pretty rare until about 10 years ago, buyers for the past several decades were buying plenty of RWD cars without AWD in winter states and getting around just fine, it has no real impact on whether someone will buy a vehicle or not. Most luxury makers don't charge a big premium for adding awd so many buyers end up choosing it if they live in states that have snow in the winter but it is not a deal breaker for most buyers if it doesn't have it especially with modern tires and traction control systems.



I think you enjoy being wrong. Please go back and look at the sales history of the 3G TL from 2004 to 2006. The wonderfully designed Acura sold considerably more cars during timeframe than any other time period for this vehicle, AND surpassed the Infiniti G sedan...one of its main RWD competitors, in sales during these years? When Acura and Infiniti moved on to their next gen design, the Infiniti then took over the sales lead from the TL, and I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand why the 4G TL suddenly stopped selling as well as the 3G had been selling. While it's true there are some auto purists like yourself who really heavily weigh FWD vs RWD, most buyers in this segment are looking at many other factors first, and design along with tech features play a key role in today's market.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 10:33
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The 3G TL was a unique offering at the time. Slotted between a 3 and 5 series in size, offering actually quite a lot of value in a nice looking car. It also didn't hurt that the Type-S variant was faster than the G-series around a track. During its best years it was only second in luxury car sales to the 3-series.

But that formula couldn't continue to work, because the competition became much stronger the following generation while the TL didn't really progress much, in fact like the TSX it slid backward in being a compelling value-oriented enthusiast car, and certainly awkward styling and higher prices didn't help either.

The current future for luxury cars does appear to be a combination of CUVs, AWD, and powertrain advancements. Acura has a chance to make significant marketshare gains and make compelling enthusiast vehicles, and it doesn't necessarily have to go with REER WEEL DRAIV, VEE ATE SEADAN to do it. But the recent RDX formula does provide a potential base for Acura to reclaim its 3G-TL like roots of bringing value and performance to popular segments (including aforementioned sedans and CUVs)... hopefully with more Type-S style turbo V6 variants in play.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 12:16
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bnilhome wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.



I fully agree with you Tony. Most luxury sedan buyers would not rule out a vehicle based upon FWD vs RWD. The primary situation where this might come into play would be the many parts of the US having winters with snow where those buyers would rule out a vehicle that is RWD only. I also agree that the sedans styling is a key factor in this segment.


Not true at all, luxury buyers have been ruling out FWD Acuras for a decade and going with RWD competitors. They have been doing the same thing with FWD Saabs, Lincolns, and Volvo's. How do you think a FWD S class, 3 series, 7 series would sell if with the prestige of those companies? Sales would collapse.

Winter driving needing AWD/FWD is another myth. AWD options on most luxury cars was pretty rare until about 10 years ago, buyers for the past several decades were buying plenty of RWD cars without AWD in winter states and getting around just fine, it has no real impact on whether someone will buy a vehicle or not. Most luxury makers don't charge a big premium for adding awd so many buyers end up choosing it if they live in states that have snow in the winter but it is not a deal breaker for most buyers if it doesn't have it especially with modern tires and traction control systems.



I think you enjoy being wrong. Please go back and look at the sales history of the 3G TL from 2004 to 2006. The wonderfully designed Acura sold considerably more cars during timeframe than any other time period for this vehicle, AND surpassed the Infiniti G sedan...one of its main RWD competitors, in sales during these years? When Acura and Infiniti moved on to their next gen design, the Infiniti then took over the sales lead from the TL, and I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand why the 4G TL suddenly stopped selling as well as the 3G had been selling. While it's true there are some auto purists like yourself who really heavily weigh FWD vs RWD, most buyers in this segment are looking at many other factors first, and design along with tech features play a key role in today's market.



You obviously need to try re reading before you accuse anyone of being wrong. First of all I said buyers have been ruling out FWD Acura's for a decade, I am pretty sure a 2004-2006 car would be well before a decade.

At that time Acura's sold much better because the competition was not nearly as good nor where there as many good options and power was nowhere near what it is today. The 3GTL was a good effort by Acura that followed the very successful 2GTL with a bunch of mediocre cars from competitors at the time aside from the 3 series, 3G looked good, handled good, had a good interior, and little cost cutting was evident. When the 3G first came out nobody had cars in that segment packing 300hp which would overwhelm a FWD chassis, it was mainly 190hp-260hp. The 3 series was the only other really good car with a good engine and it was the only one to beat the 3G in sales for the first 2 years or so.

What also happened at around that time was the great looking RWD G35 coupe was a huge hit and pretty much killed the Acura CL and Acura coupes all together. Then around 05/06 the IS350 had over 300hp and other competitors later started creeping to 300hp and building better vehicles, the 3G was still pretty competitive and a Type S helped which was able to beat a G35 and IS350 at races but its sales still started tapering off toward the end of its cycle and the limits of a FWD started becoming more and more apparent.

The beaked 4G TL was not a success, not a bad car, but many did not see it as much of a upgrade over the 3G or even worse in some cases while competitors made improvements to just about all of their models. Despite that, I believe the 4G still sold about what the TLX sales have been despite being split with the TSX, both combined sold more then the TLX but either way, awd did not help 4G sales nor has it really put the TLX at the top.

The days of a FWD luxury sedans based on a family sedans that are not a Lexus ES getting good sales are over, the RWD competition is too good now, there is more choice, and with leasing and better warranties buyers don't have to worry as much about reliability with the Germans. Acura should have figured this out by now especially when it comes to mid level/flagship sedans. It does not matter much if acura comes out with a decent looking sedan as if it is still based on a FWD trans platform it will still be compromised, etc and reviewers will point that out every time.

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 13:44
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lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
....
Buyers will just go to other brands if the price of the TLX rises by a significant amount yet it still retains a FWD transv layout like Accords and uses a engine from a Honda Accord. The TLX will not sell if it is priced anywhere near the RWD competition with more recognized prestigious names. The main reason people buy the TLX, especially the 6 cylinder is mainly because it is priced so much lower then the competition on top of deals that are often had. Take that away and you will have ILX like sales.
...



The vast majority of buyers have no clue what wheels drive the car, not how a car works.

All the want is nice doodahs, prestige and a reasonable monthly price. What Acura has not done is provide a good looking car, for a long time, since the mod 00s TL.

All Acura needs to do is provide a good looking car with a good marketing sheet of features. It will sell itself.

Think, how can BMW still sell cars in the US? Not because of their engineering prowess.

How can Lexus sell cars in the US? Not because of their design.

It called marketing.



I fully agree with you Tony. Most luxury sedan buyers would not rule out a vehicle based upon FWD vs RWD. The primary situation where this might come into play would be the many parts of the US having winters with snow where those buyers would rule out a vehicle that is RWD only. I also agree that the sedans styling is a key factor in this segment.


Not true at all, luxury buyers have been ruling out FWD Acuras for a decade and going with RWD competitors. They have been doing the same thing with FWD Saabs, Lincolns, and Volvo's. How do you think a FWD S class, 3 series, 7 series would sell if with the prestige of those companies? Sales would collapse.

Winter driving needing AWD/FWD is another myth. AWD options on most luxury cars was pretty rare until about 10 years ago, buyers for the past several decades were buying plenty of RWD cars without AWD in winter states and getting around just fine, it has no real impact on whether someone will buy a vehicle or not. Most luxury makers don't charge a big premium for adding awd so many buyers end up choosing it if they live in states that have snow in the winter but it is not a deal breaker for most buyers if it doesn't have it especially with modern tires and traction control systems.



I think you enjoy being wrong. Please go back and look at the sales history of the 3G TL from 2004 to 2006. The wonderfully designed Acura sold considerably more cars during timeframe than any other time period for this vehicle, AND surpassed the Infiniti G sedan...one of its main RWD competitors, in sales during these years? When Acura and Infiniti moved on to their next gen design, the Infiniti then took over the sales lead from the TL, and I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand why the 4G TL suddenly stopped selling as well as the 3G had been selling. While it's true there are some auto purists like yourself who really heavily weigh FWD vs RWD, most buyers in this segment are looking at many other factors first, and design along with tech features play a key role in today's market.



You obviously need to try re reading before you accuse anyone of being wrong. First of all I said buyers have been ruling out FWD Acura's for a decade, I am pretty sure a 2004-2006 car would be well before a decade.

At that time Acura's sold much better because the competition was not nearly as good nor where there as many good options and power was nowhere near what it is today. The 3GTL was a good effort by Acura that followed the very successful 2GTL with a bunch of mediocre cars from competitors at the time aside from the 3 series, 3G looked good, handled good, had a good interior, and little cost cutting was evident. When the 3G first came out nobody had cars in that segment packing 300hp which would overwhelm a FWD chassis, it was mainly 190hp-260hp. The 3 series was the only other really good car with a good engine and it was the only one to beat the 3G in sales for the first 2 years or so.

What also happened at around that time was the great looking RWD G35 coupe was a huge hit and pretty much killed the Acura CL and Acura coupes all together. Then around 05/06 the IS350 had over 300hp and other competitors later started creeping to 300hp and building better vehicles, the 3G was still pretty competitive and a Type S helped which was able to beat a G35 and IS350 at races but its sales still started tapering off toward the end of its cycle and the limits of a FWD started becoming more and more apparent.

The beaked 4G TL was not a success, not a bad car, but many did not see it as much of a upgrade over the 3G or even worse in some cases while competitors made improvements to just about all of their models. Despite that, I believe the 4G still sold about what the TLX sales have been despite being split with the TSX, both combined sold more then the TLX but either way, awd did not help 4G sales nor has it really put the TLX at the top.

The days of a FWD luxury sedans based on a family sedans that are not a Lexus ES getting good sales are over, the RWD competition is too good now, there is more choice, and with leasing and better warranties buyers don't have to worry as much about reliability with the Germans. Acura should have figured this out by now especially when it comes to mid level/flagship sedans. It does not matter much if acura comes out with a decent looking sedan as if it is still based on a FWD trans platform it will still be compromised, etc and reviewers will point that out every time.



As Civicb18 pointed out in another thread, and as Tony and I have pointed out in this thread, having a sedan based upon RWD is not a requirement for most luxury sedan buyers, and you are certainly entitled to view that as your own personal entrance criteria for making a sedan purchase, but buyers look at many variables when purchasing a car, and FWD vs. RWD would be near the bottom of that list. If Acura (or any other car maker) can offer an AWD system that delivers great performance and handling, the average luxury sedan buyer is not going to distinguish which wheels the power is coming from relative to a competitor offering AWD based upon a RWD architecture.

Regarding the 3G TL, the reason I brought that up is to support the argument that a vehicle's design is perhaps the most important factor in getting prospective luxury buyers to dealerships for a test drive (I also think brand status plays a role for many buyers wanting to show off their car). In 2004 to 2006 when the TL was out, there was a direct competitor in the Infiniti which was RWD-based and going head to head with the TL and yet the TL sold more units during that timeframe than the Infiniti. In fact, the TL also outsold the BMW 5 series during this timeframe, something that Acura has not ever been able to replicate. Had Acura not nailed the design with the 3G TL that would have never happened. Put another way, had the 4G TL kept its poor design yet had an RWD architecture, I guarantee it would not have outsold the 5-series or Infiniti. To summarize, design and other elements play a much greater factor in car sales than AWD systems based upon FWD vs RWD architecture.



 
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