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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain

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longhorn
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Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 15:32
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https://www.motor1.com/news/247133/lexus-is-gs-future-uncertain/
longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 15:44
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"It all comes down to available resources. The IS and GS are aging models. If a company is going to spend money on research and development for new vehicles, they are going to spend that money on models consumers want and will buy. And right now, those types of vehicles arenít sedans. Crossovers are dictating the market, and a company can only do so much. "
lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 19:19
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https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/06/12/lexus-gs-sedan-not-going-anywhere-will-continue-sales-in-north-america/

From Lexus, they said the GS is not going anywhere and will continue to sell in North America, IS is not in any danger of being cancelled.

Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 19:20
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I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 19:25
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Thanks for sharing. This would be the first smart move by lexus in a while. They are right to invest company resources into products that consumers are demanding. The crossover trend is here to stay as consumers have gotten used to a higher seating position that crossovers offer. Now if Lexus could get improve their design and grille they would really be on a roll.
Jovian8
Profile for Jovian8
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 19:39
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lexusgs wrote:
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/06/12/lexus-gs-sedan-not-going-anywhere-will-continue-sales-in-north-america/

From Lexus, they said the GS is not going anywhere and will continue to sell in North America, IS is not in any danger of being cancelled.



lexusgs, I find inherent bias with your comments re the Lexus GS. lol

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 01:24
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Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 07:33
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 08:18
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Grace141 wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.



Nicely stated Grace. I do think Americans are driving what they want, and that is SUVs and Crossovers. Unless Gas prices get above $4 a gallon nationwide and stay there for a considerable time, I don't see Americans changing their preference for crossovers, especially if crossovers can get within a few MPGs of sedans around the same length/size. I also think carmakers are starting to learn how to make crossovers just as stylish as sedans, and the Jaguar F-Pace and Volvo XC90 are a couple of examples where the companies SUVs look better than their sedans.

As it relates to Acura, they need to decide what balance of crossovers vs sedans vs coupes they want in their long-term portfolio. Currently they are light on overall offerings, but if I were investing company funds and had 10 total vehicles (not counting convertibles or NSX), I would have 5 SUVs/CUVs, 4 sedans, and 1 coupe.

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 08:52
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I think the fact that the fuel economy for SUVs and crossovers has improved so much is a big reason why more people are buying them.
lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 12:41
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
bnilhome wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.



Nicely stated Grace. I do think Americans are driving what they want, and that is SUVs and Crossovers. Unless Gas prices get above $4 a gallon nationwide and stay there for a considerable time, I don't see Americans changing their preference for crossovers, especially if crossovers can get within a few MPGs of sedans around the same length/size. I also think carmakers are starting to learn how to make crossovers just as stylish as sedans, and the Jaguar F-Pace and Volvo XC90 are a couple of examples where the companies SUVs look better than their sedans.

As it relates to Acura, they need to decide what balance of crossovers vs sedans vs coupes they want in their long-term portfolio. Currently they are light on overall offerings, but if I were investing company funds and had 10 total vehicles (not counting convertibles or NSX), I would have 5 SUVs/CUVs, 4 sedans, and 1 coupe.


SUV's will never look better or just as stylish as a decent looking sedan, you have to basically ruin a car design to get a dumpy CUV. A Jag F Pace or XC90(I find the Volvo ugly) do not look better then their sedans, the F Pace just does not look bad for a CUV, one reason is lower stance/better proportions because it loses utility/space of most CUV's and it is on a RWD platform.

Acura does not need 5 CUV's, there is no reason for that many, they are fine with 2, 3 should be max if they want to add a model. Having more CUV's can have a negative effect on your successful SUV's, not all Acura CUV's have been successes like the 1st Gen RDX, ZDX, SLX. How do you try calling yourself precision crafted performance or a performance brand when you have a bunch of dumpy CUV's in your lineup for the masses. They could do something above a MDX or have a very high end version of a MDX that is unique enough to charge a good deal more for it. If you want a cheaper CUV then a RDX there are plenty of Honda's to choose from.

If automakers make sedans better looking, put more effort into them, equip them more similar to CUV's like adding rear seat controls/entertainment, and stop giving them weak under powered engines I think sedans will do better then they are doing now.

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 13:13
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.



Nicely stated Grace. I do think Americans are driving what they want, and that is SUVs and Crossovers. Unless Gas prices get above $4 a gallon nationwide and stay there for a considerable time, I don't see Americans changing their preference for crossovers, especially if crossovers can get within a few MPGs of sedans around the same length/size. I also think carmakers are starting to learn how to make crossovers just as stylish as sedans, and the Jaguar F-Pace and Volvo XC90 are a couple of examples where the companies SUVs look better than their sedans.

As it relates to Acura, they need to decide what balance of crossovers vs sedans vs coupes they want in their long-term portfolio. Currently they are light on overall offerings, but if I were investing company funds and had 10 total vehicles (not counting convertibles or NSX), I would have 5 SUVs/CUVs, 4 sedans, and 1 coupe.


SUV's will never look better or just as stylish as a decent looking sedan, you have to basically ruin a car design to get a dumpy CUV. A Jag F Pace or XC90(I find the Volvo ugly) do not look better then their sedans, the F Pace just does not look bad for a CUV, one reason is lower stance/better proportions because it loses utility/space of most CUV's and it is on a RWD platform.

Acura does not need 5 CUV's, there is no reason for that many, they are fine with 2, 3 should be max if they want to add a model. Having more CUV's can have a negative effect on your successful SUV's, not all Acura CUV's have been successes like the 1st Gen RDX, ZDX, SLX. How do you try calling yourself precision crafted performance or a performance brand when you have a bunch of dumpy CUV's in your lineup for the masses. They could do something above a MDX or have a very high end version of a MDX that is unique enough to charge a good deal more for it. If you want a cheaper CUV then a RDX there are plenty of Honda's to choose from.

If automakers make sedans better looking, put more effort into them, equip them more similar to CUV's like adding rear seat controls/entertainment, and stop giving them weak under powered engines I think sedans will do better then they are doing now.



You are totally entitled to your opinion that sedans should be more important and that no carmaker has a better looking CUV than their sedans, but the facts state that consumers are increasingly choosing SUVs over sedans. There is a reason that the top 8 fastest depreciating vehicles currently are NOT SUVs/CUVs.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/21515/these-are-the-fastest-depreciating-cars-on-the-market

Regarding comments like "dumpy" CUVs and choosing a Honda over an Acura, you can really say that about any vehicle type (sedan, coupe, SUV/CUV) from any automaker. I personally find sedans less and less relevant, but that is attributed to my family situation having 2 active kids and wanting the conveniences and higher driving position an SUV offers.

Companies who are slow to realize the SUV trend are only hurting themselves, and Lexus is smart to kill off some of its sedan offerings, just as Ford recently did. For sedan purist like yourself, that may be a hard pill to swallow, but this is where we are in 2018. But hey, given how quickly vehicles like the 5-Series are depreciating, you might be able to get a steal right now.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 18:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
bnilhome wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.



Nicely stated Grace. I do think Americans are driving what they want, and that is SUVs and Crossovers. Unless Gas prices get above $4 a gallon nationwide and stay there for a considerable time, I don't see Americans changing their preference for crossovers, especially if crossovers can get within a few MPGs of sedans around the same length/size. I also think carmakers are starting to learn how to make crossovers just as stylish as sedans, and the Jaguar F-Pace and Volvo XC90 are a couple of examples where the companies SUVs look better than their sedans.

As it relates to Acura, they need to decide what balance of crossovers vs sedans vs coupes they want in their long-term portfolio. Currently they are light on overall offerings, but if I were investing company funds and had 10 total vehicles (not counting convertibles or NSX), I would have 5 SUVs/CUVs, 4 sedans, and 1 coupe.


SUV's will never look better or just as stylish as a decent looking sedan, you have to basically ruin a car design to get a dumpy CUV. A Jag F Pace or XC90(I find the Volvo ugly) do not look better then their sedans, the F Pace just does not look bad for a CUV, one reason is lower stance/better proportions because it loses utility/space of most CUV's and it is on a RWD platform.

Acura does not need 5 CUV's, there is no reason for that many, they are fine with 2, 3 should be max if they want to add a model. Having more CUV's can have a negative effect on your successful SUV's, not all Acura CUV's have been successes like the 1st Gen RDX, ZDX, SLX. How do you try calling yourself precision crafted performance or a performance brand when you have a bunch of dumpy CUV's in your lineup for the masses. They could do something above a MDX or have a very high end version of a MDX that is unique enough to charge a good deal more for it. If you want a cheaper CUV then a RDX there are plenty of Honda's to choose from.

If automakers make sedans better looking, put more effort into them, equip them more similar to CUV's like adding rear seat controls/entertainment, and stop giving them weak under powered engines I think sedans will do better then they are doing now.



You are totally entitled to your opinion that sedans should be more important and that no carmaker has a better looking CUV than their sedans, but the facts state that consumers are increasingly choosing SUVs over sedans. There is a reason that the top 8 fastest depreciating vehicles currently are NOT SUVs/CUVs.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/21515/these-are-the-fastest-depreciating-cars-on-the-market

Regarding comments like "dumpy" CUVs and choosing a Honda over an Acura, you can really say that about any vehicle type (sedan, coupe, SUV/CUV) from any automaker. I personally find sedans less and less relevant, but that is attributed to my family situation having 2 active kids and wanting the conveniences and higher driving position an SUV offers.

Companies who are slow to realize the SUV trend are only hurting themselves, and Lexus is smart to kill off some of its sedan offerings, just as Ford recently did. For sedan purist like yourself, that may be a hard pill to swallow, but this is where we are in 2018. But hey, given how quickly vehicles like the 5-Series are depreciating, you might be able to get a steal right now.



Why do you need a CUV with only 2 kids? Most families with 2-3 kids got/get along just fine with sedans. Most CUV's on the market are still 5 seaters, many of the best selling ones are compact CUV's so they are really not offering anything much over a family or luxury sedan aside from some more storage in the very back, most people don't really need the extra storage either that a CUV offers. Doubt they are rock crawling or taking wilderness trails to get where they need to go either.. Minivans do a much better job for families with more then 3 children.

I don't like how CUV's ride or the high seating position, I mainly see the high seating position as a higher center of gravity which means the vehicle does not handle as well nor is as stable and more prone to flipping.

Used BMW 5 series have not suddenly dropped much in price, not around me, likely the main reason they are on that list is that they are very good sellers(rentals), they are trouble prone and expensive to own/repair, the market it pretty flooded with them now, especially de contented 4 cylinder models nobody really wants if they are actually buying them and intend to keep a while. Most vehicles with high transaction prices that are not collectable depreciate much more then lower priced vehicles, been that way for decades.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 19:08
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.



Nicely stated Grace. I do think Americans are driving what they want, and that is SUVs and Crossovers. Unless Gas prices get above $4 a gallon nationwide and stay there for a considerable time, I don't see Americans changing their preference for crossovers, especially if crossovers can get within a few MPGs of sedans around the same length/size. I also think carmakers are starting to learn how to make crossovers just as stylish as sedans, and the Jaguar F-Pace and Volvo XC90 are a couple of examples where the companies SUVs look better than their sedans.

As it relates to Acura, they need to decide what balance of crossovers vs sedans vs coupes they want in their long-term portfolio. Currently they are light on overall offerings, but if I were investing company funds and had 10 total vehicles (not counting convertibles or NSX), I would have 5 SUVs/CUVs, 4 sedans, and 1 coupe.


SUV's will never look better or just as stylish as a decent looking sedan, you have to basically ruin a car design to get a dumpy CUV. A Jag F Pace or XC90(I find the Volvo ugly) do not look better then their sedans, the F Pace just does not look bad for a CUV, one reason is lower stance/better proportions because it loses utility/space of most CUV's and it is on a RWD platform.

Acura does not need 5 CUV's, there is no reason for that many, they are fine with 2, 3 should be max if they want to add a model. Having more CUV's can have a negative effect on your successful SUV's, not all Acura CUV's have been successes like the 1st Gen RDX, ZDX, SLX. How do you try calling yourself precision crafted performance or a performance brand when you have a bunch of dumpy CUV's in your lineup for the masses. They could do something above a MDX or have a very high end version of a MDX that is unique enough to charge a good deal more for it. If you want a cheaper CUV then a RDX there are plenty of Honda's to choose from.

If automakers make sedans better looking, put more effort into them, equip them more similar to CUV's like adding rear seat controls/entertainment, and stop giving them weak under powered engines I think sedans will do better then they are doing now.



You are totally entitled to your opinion that sedans should be more important and that no carmaker has a better looking CUV than their sedans, but the facts state that consumers are increasingly choosing SUVs over sedans. There is a reason that the top 8 fastest depreciating vehicles currently are NOT SUVs/CUVs.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/21515/these-are-the-fastest-depreciating-cars-on-the-market

Regarding comments like "dumpy" CUVs and choosing a Honda over an Acura, you can really say that about any vehicle type (sedan, coupe, SUV/CUV) from any automaker. I personally find sedans less and less relevant, but that is attributed to my family situation having 2 active kids and wanting the conveniences and higher driving position an SUV offers.

Companies who are slow to realize the SUV trend are only hurting themselves, and Lexus is smart to kill off some of its sedan offerings, just as Ford recently did. For sedan purist like yourself, that may be a hard pill to swallow, but this is where we are in 2018. But hey, given how quickly vehicles like the 5-Series are depreciating, you might be able to get a steal right now.



Why do you need a CUV with only 2 kids? Most families with 2-3 kids got/get along just fine with sedans. Most CUV's on the market are still 5 seaters, many of the best selling ones are compact CUV's so they are really not offering anything much over a family or luxury sedan aside from some more storage in the very back, most people don't really need the extra storage either that a CUV offers. Doubt they are rock crawling or taking wilderness trails to get where they need to go either.. Minivans do a much better job for families with more then 3 children.

I don't like how CUV's ride or the high seating position, I mainly see the high seating position as a higher center of gravity which means the vehicle does not handle as well nor is as stable and more prone to flipping.

Used BMW 5 series have not suddenly dropped much in price, not around me, likely the main reason they are on that list is that they are very good sellers(rentals), they are trouble prone and expensive to own/repair, the market it pretty flooded with them now, especially de contented 4 cylinder models nobody really wants if they are actually buying them and intend to keep a while. Most vehicles with high transaction prices that are not collectable depreciate much more then lower priced vehicles, been that way for decades.


You have to look at two factors here. Car seats for infants through booster seats for toddlers and young children have all grown in size over the past twenty years to make them too big for smaller sedans. You can't fit a baby carrier through the back door opening on some small cars and then it's difficult to have an infant seat and a booster seat side by side in the back seat of a car smaller than the Accord. It's exactly why we traded our Integra for our first Accord back in the day. The best infant seat available on the market in the '80s (the Nissan model sold through the Nissan dealer parts departments) is little better than the free infant seats hospitals give away to all new parents these days. And a nurse will tell you not to use one of those free car seats.

The second factor is a parent lifting a 10 lbs. to 20 lbs. child either in a carrier and into the base in the car or into a rear facing toddler seat, over the side of the massive seat if that's the case. It's much easier to do this when the seat is higher and next to you and you can almost step into the car than it is to lower a child into the seat in the back of a sedan while not bumping your head.

Once people find the practicality of the CUVs on the market it's difficult to talk them into driving a sedan. That's why they are popular.

As for a family with three children, they're already in a minivan because it's impossible to fit a third person between two car seats in the back of any sedan today. Once the third child arrives sedans are no longer a choice.

By the time you add in all of the gear such as the strollers and chairs and just the gear to feed children these days, a CRV is a good choice for a family of four but it's on the small side. A family of five or six is looking at either an Odyssey or Pilot. The Pilot doesn't have enough cargo space though. From there it's a Transit van.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 19:17
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Also there has been zero confirmation by Lexus they are killing any sedans either, actually the latest from Lexus is the GS is not going anywhere, the IS was never in danger of being killed.

All the vehicles on that depreciation list are mostly pricey and/or unreliable German and American vehicles which has been the norm on those depreciation lists for a long time.

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 19:57
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lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.



Nicely stated Grace. I do think Americans are driving what they want, and that is SUVs and Crossovers. Unless Gas prices get above $4 a gallon nationwide and stay there for a considerable time, I don't see Americans changing their preference for crossovers, especially if crossovers can get within a few MPGs of sedans around the same length/size. I also think carmakers are starting to learn how to make crossovers just as stylish as sedans, and the Jaguar F-Pace and Volvo XC90 are a couple of examples where the companies SUVs look better than their sedans.

As it relates to Acura, they need to decide what balance of crossovers vs sedans vs coupes they want in their long-term portfolio. Currently they are light on overall offerings, but if I were investing company funds and had 10 total vehicles (not counting convertibles or NSX), I would have 5 SUVs/CUVs, 4 sedans, and 1 coupe.


SUV's will never look better or just as stylish as a decent looking sedan, you have to basically ruin a car design to get a dumpy CUV. A Jag F Pace or XC90(I find the Volvo ugly) do not look better then their sedans, the F Pace just does not look bad for a CUV, one reason is lower stance/better proportions because it loses utility/space of most CUV's and it is on a RWD platform.

Acura does not need 5 CUV's, there is no reason for that many, they are fine with 2, 3 should be max if they want to add a model. Having more CUV's can have a negative effect on your successful SUV's, not all Acura CUV's have been successes like the 1st Gen RDX, ZDX, SLX. How do you try calling yourself precision crafted performance or a performance brand when you have a bunch of dumpy CUV's in your lineup for the masses. They could do something above a MDX or have a very high end version of a MDX that is unique enough to charge a good deal more for it. If you want a cheaper CUV then a RDX there are plenty of Honda's to choose from.

If automakers make sedans better looking, put more effort into them, equip them more similar to CUV's like adding rear seat controls/entertainment, and stop giving them weak under powered engines I think sedans will do better then they are doing now.



You are totally entitled to your opinion that sedans should be more important and that no carmaker has a better looking CUV than their sedans, but the facts state that consumers are increasingly choosing SUVs over sedans. There is a reason that the top 8 fastest depreciating vehicles currently are NOT SUVs/CUVs.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/21515/these-are-the-fastest-depreciating-cars-on-the-market

Regarding comments like "dumpy" CUVs and choosing a Honda over an Acura, you can really say that about any vehicle type (sedan, coupe, SUV/CUV) from any automaker. I personally find sedans less and less relevant, but that is attributed to my family situation having 2 active kids and wanting the conveniences and higher driving position an SUV offers.

Companies who are slow to realize the SUV trend are only hurting themselves, and Lexus is smart to kill off some of its sedan offerings, just as Ford recently did. For sedan purist like yourself, that may be a hard pill to swallow, but this is where we are in 2018. But hey, given how quickly vehicles like the 5-Series are depreciating, you might be able to get a steal right now.



Why do you need a CUV with only 2 kids? Most families with 2-3 kids got/get along just fine with sedans. Most CUV's on the market are still 5 seaters, many of the best selling ones are compact CUV's so they are really not offering anything much over a family or luxury sedan aside from some more storage in the very back, most people don't really need the extra storage either that a CUV offers. Doubt they are rock crawling or taking wilderness trails to get where they need to go either.. Minivans do a much better job for families with more then 3 children.

I don't like how CUV's ride or the high seating position, I mainly see the high seating position as a higher center of gravity which means the vehicle does not handle as well nor is as stable and more prone to flipping.

Used BMW 5 series have not suddenly dropped much in price, not around me, likely the main reason they are on that list is that they are very good sellers(rentals), they are trouble prone and expensive to own/repair, the market it pretty flooded with them now, especially de contented 4 cylinder models nobody really wants if they are actually buying them and intend to keep a while. Most vehicles with high transaction prices that are not collectable depreciate much more then lower priced vehicles, been that way for decades.



I am assuming you dont have kids in a lot of activities. Its fine you prefer sedans but you continue to fail to acknowledge crossovers are becoming more and more popular and more and more important for automakers to focus on. That is one of Genesis big mistakes as we talked about before....not having the right product for what the market is demanding. I hope they do soon as I think they could compete well, but not having a crossover is a showstopper for me and many other consumers.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-14-2018 23:50
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Grace141 wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
bnilhome wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
I really hate the current trend, never liked the floaty high seating of SUVs. Sedans should be the pinnacle of 4 wheel motoring, not SUVs. I see the utility benefit where small crossovers delivers more than a compact sedan so I'm fine with killing the IS.

The big question then, what Acura should bring for its entry level products? Toyota definitely isn't afraid to spend money to build brand image, for them to ponder killing not one but two products that they've invested for decades is scary. The CDX will they-won't they starts to get annoying, but how about next gen ILX? Everybody talking about the TLX, the ILX is already on its sixth year and we have zero spy/development photos of the car replacement. Is it dead?

I really hope the ILX stays, but to fight on even ground with crossovers utilities, it should be a hatch.



I second that. The biggest idiocy of modern automotive transportation is the trend for Super-Useless-Vehicles. People who are already unable to park their current car properly in a parking lot, now have to buy these pseudo-outdoor-tanks to compensate for something not really worth to talk about, and creat an obstacle for other drivers on the street.


For those of us in the US, we should reinforce the truly American notion of the "I'll drive whatever I want to drive" freedom. Our MDX is wonderful in its intended role which is as an all-weather, long distance transport and a day of 75mph Interstate driving is easy. My longest day in the MDX thus far has been 670 miles and it was a piece of cake. I just don't see our Fit being good at that task and it doesn't help that with four adults in the Fit there isn't enough cargo space for their gear. My Accord might have done it okay.

We could have bought an Odyssey but the secret there is the Ody is bigger than the MDX with some real cargo space behind the third seat when it's up. Slightly better gas mileage too. Minivans don't talk the office car park talk though.



Nicely stated Grace. I do think Americans are driving what they want, and that is SUVs and Crossovers. Unless Gas prices get above $4 a gallon nationwide and stay there for a considerable time, I don't see Americans changing their preference for crossovers, especially if crossovers can get within a few MPGs of sedans around the same length/size. I also think carmakers are starting to learn how to make crossovers just as stylish as sedans, and the Jaguar F-Pace and Volvo XC90 are a couple of examples where the companies SUVs look better than their sedans.

As it relates to Acura, they need to decide what balance of crossovers vs sedans vs coupes they want in their long-term portfolio. Currently they are light on overall offerings, but if I were investing company funds and had 10 total vehicles (not counting convertibles or NSX), I would have 5 SUVs/CUVs, 4 sedans, and 1 coupe.


SUV's will never look better or just as stylish as a decent looking sedan, you have to basically ruin a car design to get a dumpy CUV. A Jag F Pace or XC90(I find the Volvo ugly) do not look better then their sedans, the F Pace just does not look bad for a CUV, one reason is lower stance/better proportions because it loses utility/space of most CUV's and it is on a RWD platform.

Acura does not need 5 CUV's, there is no reason for that many, they are fine with 2, 3 should be max if they want to add a model. Having more CUV's can have a negative effect on your successful SUV's, not all Acura CUV's have been successes like the 1st Gen RDX, ZDX, SLX. How do you try calling yourself precision crafted performance or a performance brand when you have a bunch of dumpy CUV's in your lineup for the masses. They could do something above a MDX or have a very high end version of a MDX that is unique enough to charge a good deal more for it. If you want a cheaper CUV then a RDX there are plenty of Honda's to choose from.

If automakers make sedans better looking, put more effort into them, equip them more similar to CUV's like adding rear seat controls/entertainment, and stop giving them weak under powered engines I think sedans will do better then they are doing now.



You are totally entitled to your opinion that sedans should be more important and that no carmaker has a better looking CUV than their sedans, but the facts state that consumers are increasingly choosing SUVs over sedans. There is a reason that the top 8 fastest depreciating vehicles currently are NOT SUVs/CUVs.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/21515/these-are-the-fastest-depreciating-cars-on-the-market

Regarding comments like "dumpy" CUVs and choosing a Honda over an Acura, you can really say that about any vehicle type (sedan, coupe, SUV/CUV) from any automaker. I personally find sedans less and less relevant, but that is attributed to my family situation having 2 active kids and wanting the conveniences and higher driving position an SUV offers.

Companies who are slow to realize the SUV trend are only hurting themselves, and Lexus is smart to kill off some of its sedan offerings, just as Ford recently did. For sedan purist like yourself, that may be a hard pill to swallow, but this is where we are in 2018. But hey, given how quickly vehicles like the 5-Series are depreciating, you might be able to get a steal right now.



Why do you need a CUV with only 2 kids? Most families with 2-3 kids got/get along just fine with sedans. Most CUV's on the market are still 5 seaters, many of the best selling ones are compact CUV's so they are really not offering anything much over a family or luxury sedan aside from some more storage in the very back, most people don't really need the extra storage either that a CUV offers. Doubt they are rock crawling or taking wilderness trails to get where they need to go either.. Minivans do a much better job for families with more then 3 children.

I don't like how CUV's ride or the high seating position, I mainly see the high seating position as a higher center of gravity which means the vehicle does not handle as well nor is as stable and more prone to flipping.

Used BMW 5 series have not suddenly dropped much in price, not around me, likely the main reason they are on that list is that they are very good sellers(rentals), they are trouble prone and expensive to own/repair, the market it pretty flooded with them now, especially de contented 4 cylinder models nobody really wants if they are actually buying them and intend to keep a while. Most vehicles with high transaction prices that are not collectable depreciate much more then lower priced vehicles, been that way for decades.


You have to look at two factors here. Car seats for infants through booster seats for toddlers and young children have all grown in size over the past twenty years to make them too big for smaller sedans. You can't fit a baby carrier through the back door opening on some small cars and then it's difficult to have an infant seat and a booster seat side by side in the back seat of a car smaller than the Accord. It's exactly why we traded our Integra for our first Accord back in the day. The best infant seat available on the market in the '80s (the Nissan model sold through the Nissan dealer parts departments) is little better than the free infant seats hospitals give away to all new parents these days. And a nurse will tell you not to use one of those free car seats.

The second factor is a parent lifting a 10 lbs. to 20 lbs. child either in a carrier and into the base in the car or into a rear facing toddler seat, over the side of the massive seat if that's the case. It's much easier to do this when the seat is higher and next to you and you can almost step into the car than it is to lower a child into the seat in the back of a sedan while not bumping your head.

Once people find the practicality of the CUVs on the market it's difficult to talk them into driving a sedan. That's why they are popular.

As for a family with three children, they're already in a minivan because it's impossible to fit a third person between two car seats in the back of any sedan today. Once the third child arrives sedans are no longer a choice.

By the time you add in all of the gear such as the strollers and chairs and just the gear to feed children these days, a CRV is a good choice for a family of four but it's on the small side. A family of five or six is looking at either an Odyssey or Pilot. The Pilot doesn't have enough cargo space though. From there it's a Transit van.



You also have to look at two factors.

1) The additional space in many SUV's is only really there if you "build up" instead of out. That means bulky things, etc, or a wall of luggage you can't see over.

Oddly, our HR-V has no more luggage space than my Accord, unless I am doing just the above. The car seat (or should I say "travel system") has more space in the Accord as well, as in the HR-V, you can't even put the passenger front seat in a comfortable place for an adult. I thought about putting the car seat in the middle where it is safest, but I didn't like the way Honda's LATCH attachments worked for that and the instruction manual said NOT to do it. It also felt like it was balancing atop the slight hump in the middle, so it ended up on the passenger side.

With the stroller in the car, there is as much, if not more space for items like groceries in the Accord, and that is on top of every other human in the car being properly seated and comfortable.

And that doesn't even begin to consider the dynamic advantages of something like a Fit vs an HR-V. By the way, the Fit actually has slightly MORE space by virtue of not having to conform to SUV appearance standards.

The only way I would say the HR-V holds a major advantage over a car is if you have to put the seats down and carry large items like buildable furniture boxes or something. And then, realistically, the Fit could do the same thing. Then you have to compare both to a traditional station wagon based on something like the Accord, which would probably equal or beat a CR-V in terms of space, comfort and load-ability.

Sorry, but frankly, the SUV craze is based a lot on style versus pure usability. They do have some plusses, but you trade a bit in return too.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 00:34
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P.S. I forgot to mention that my Accord is a 2013 Coupe, so "utility" is compromised vs the sedan. In the sedan, it goes right in the middle with no issues and plenty of space for the other 4 passengers.
Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 03:40
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lexusgs wrote:
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/06/12/lexus-gs-sedan-not-going-anywhere-will-continue-sales-in-north-america/

From Lexus, they said the GS is not going anywhere and will continue to sell in North America, IS is not in any danger of being cancelled.




Did you read the article, particularly the last paragraph?

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 07:14
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owequitit wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
You have to look at two factors here. Car seats for infants through booster seats for toddlers and young children have all grown in size over the past twenty years to make them too big for smaller sedans. You can't fit a baby carrier through the back door opening on some small cars and then it's difficult to have an infant seat and a booster seat side by side in the back seat of a car smaller than the Accord. It's exactly why we traded our Integra for our first Accord back in the day. The best infant seat available on the market in the '80s (the Nissan model sold through the Nissan dealer parts departments) is little better than the free infant seats hospitals give away to all new parents these days. And a nurse will tell you not to use one of those free car seats.

The second factor is a parent lifting a 10 lbs. to 20 lbs. child either in a carrier and into the base in the car or into a rear facing toddler seat, over the side of the massive seat if that's the case. It's much easier to do this when the seat is higher and next to you and you can almost step into the car than it is to lower a child into the seat in the back of a sedan while not bumping your head.

Once people find the practicality of the CUVs on the market it's difficult to talk them into driving a sedan. That's why they are popular.

As for a family with three children, they're already in a minivan because it's impossible to fit a third person between two car seats in the back of any sedan today. Once the third child arrives sedans are no longer a choice.

By the time you add in all of the gear such as the strollers and chairs and just the gear to feed children these days, a CRV is a good choice for a family of four but it's on the small side. A family of five or six is looking at either an Odyssey or Pilot. The Pilot doesn't have enough cargo space though. From there it's a Transit van.


You also have to look at two factors.

1) The additional space in many SUV's is only really there if you "build up" instead of out. That means bulky things, etc, or a wall of luggage you can't see over.

Oddly, our HR-V has no more luggage space than my Accord, unless I am doing just the above. The car seat (or should I say "travel system") has more space in the Accord as well, as in the HR-V, you can't even put the passenger front seat in a comfortable place for an adult. I thought about putting the car seat in the middle where it is safest, but I didn't like the way Honda's LATCH attachments worked for that and the instruction manual said NOT to do it. It also felt like it was balancing atop the slight hump in the middle, so it ended up on the passenger side.

With the stroller in the car, there is as much, if not more space for items like groceries in the Accord, and that is on top of every other human in the car being properly seated and comfortable.

And that doesn't even begin to consider the dynamic advantages of something like a Fit vs an HR-V. By the way, the Fit actually has slightly MORE space by virtue of not having to conform to SUV appearance standards.

The only way I would say the HR-V holds a major advantage over a car is if you have to put the seats down and carry large items like buildable furniture boxes or something. And then, realistically, the Fit could do the same thing. Then you have to compare both to a traditional station wagon based on something like the Accord, which would probably equal or beat a CR-V in terms of space, comfort and load-ability.

Sorry, but frankly, the SUV craze is based a lot on style versus pure usability. They do have some plusses, but you trade a bit in return too.


I haven't looked at an HRV but a CRV has more usable cargo space than my 8G Accord sedan and it's of a more uniform shape. Cargo isn't as secure in the back of the CRV but I never had problems with ours when I kept everything below the tops of the back seats. The trunk space in the Accord is compromised by the shape of the wheel arches and the low height of the rear deck and the radio speakers.

The footprint of our MDX is similar to that of our Accord but the MDX adds the third row seat as an option. The third seat does take nearly all of the cargo space though. The cargo floor in our RDX was quite a bit higher than that of our CRV, I assume, due to the rear diff and suspension but it still had a usable cargo volume which was better than our Accord mostly because of the shape of the space. It's always been easier to pack four carry-on bags in the CUVs than in the Accords and we have a collection of soft-sided luggage for when we use my car. And this is with the CRV and RDX being tidy small CUVs and my Accord being the one so many complained about being too large.

It is the height of the CUVs which makes them more practical. The taller seating position results in the passenger space taking up less length of the footprint of the car relative to the comfort of the seats. It's much easier to load heavy, bulky items and the Accords have been known over the years for having trunk openings which are too small for loading large items such as large coolers. I've packed a variety of strollers, chairs, small furniture, bicycles, lawn mowers, you name it in our CRV, RDX and MDX which wouldn't even fit through the trunk openings of our three Accords.

That's my experience anyway. I too would much rather be driving a sedan than a CUV but they are great long distance travel cars. I see our Fit as a small station wagon which is all that a CUV is. If I needed to really pack any car down more often than a few times each year I'd be driving an Odyssey.

JimmyEats
Profile for JimmyEats
Re: Lexus IS, GS Future Uncertain    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-15-2018 08:45
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Good explanations of car space, car seats, luggage, etc.

Now I'd like to see a Pilot or MDX with the third row removed and a sliding second row. That would give enough seats and cargo room for a family of five.


 
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