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TOV Forums > Political Lounge > > Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage

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Hondu
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Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 08:53
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rev2damoon wrote:
^I just read an article about this $80k Model 3. Here's what Musk says...

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot)," Musk tweeted. "Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

LOLOL...Even if this was true I wonder if the folks who ponied up their deposit for the $35k model give a rat's rear end...And what percentage of deposit makers are we talking here? I'm thinking a huge one.



I would rather get an M3 for around $10K less.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 09:56
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Considering the huge addition of manual labor to the operation, I think the $35K version is kind of a pipe dream at this point, especially considering how much money the company is bleeding. They're going to have to go with the M3-priced version as an easy way to get fatter margins (but then, why wouldn't people step up to a model S?).

And yeah, as much as I love to crap on BMW for putting out shit engines (and they are the current 'major OEM' poster child of Planned Obsolescence with cars that disintegrate out of warranty), I actually think they have Tesla beat insofar as quality goes. That's actually really sad. At least with the M3 you can get consistent performance and for the most part, trim pieces don't fall apart in your hands. If you read Edmund's long term test Tesla 3, it's been a nightmare so far.

The worst part about all of this is that Musk was making a huge deal about how simple the Model 3 is and how easy it is to build. And I believe him- it looks less complex than a Corolla, and looks like it can be put together like LEGO. Yet somehow they still fuck it up, and they feel the need to stick on mirrors and shit using double-sided tape.

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 10:20
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^Man the Edmunds long-term test notes are brutal.

Here's the best bit, or...worst bit I guess:

Forget that this is a "cutting-edge" EV with a cult following. That's irrelevant if Tesla wants to be anything more than a footnote in automotive history. Our Model 3 cost us $56,000, and by that standard alone, the ownership experience so far has been unacceptable. But this is no ordinary $56K car. We put down a $1,000 deposit to get on a two-year waiting list for this car and it's falling apart.


atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 19:24
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JeffX wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:As for Model 3, you cannot say with certainty that it will cause Tesla to fail. Tesla's losses and cash burn over the past few years have mostly come down to (1) huge R&D costs (2) huge SG&A due to expansion of sales, service, and charging network (3) massive investment in manufacturing.

Had Tesla simply decided to stay a small, low volume boutique manufacturer and make modest improvements to Model S over time, they could have been profitable. The company's ambition to become a mass manufacturer is what has been so costly.

If Tesla succeeds in bringing Model 3 to mass market, the economies of scale will give them a chance to be profitable as a larger carmaker. Neither success nor failure is a foregone conclusion.


Is the recently announced $80k Model 3 going to be enough to save Tesla's bacon? Or will the Model 3 bankrupt the company, since (as I have long predicted) they cannot build them profitably at the much ballyhooed $35k pricepoint? 35k is the pricepoint which undoubtedly generated the bulk of the "off-the-hook" demand for the Model 3 in the first place.

The Model 3 introduction has been disastrous, and I don't think that can be disputed.


To answer your question, I have no idea whether Model 3 will bankrupt Tesla.

The Model X "launch" in 2015 was arguably even more disastrous. Tesla survived that.

Also, if you read Ashlee Vance's biography of Elon Musk, which I highly recommend, Tesla employees tell Mr. Vance that Tesla was on the verge of bankruptcy in early 2013 as the company struggled to produce and sell the Model S. Musk was actually in the midst of selling Tesla Motors to Google, and was personally negotiating with Larry Page and Sergey Brin. Somehow, Tesla managed to get production and sales back on track in time.

Some people argue that Tesla might actually have been better off if Google had bought the company and run it like Nest or Waymo. Google's huge war chest and expertise in autonomy/Artificial Intelligence would have been great for funding additional manufacturing capacity and bringing order to the Autopilot project. Both Tesla and Google make extensive use of Linux, so there is some shared software expertise.

This would also be the worst possible outcome for privacy advocates, as Tesla cars would have basically become rolling data miners for Google. It may be a moot issue with Android Auto being integrated into almost every modern car now.


To add insult to injury, Consumer Reports just announced that they tested the 3 and it did not earn their recommendation. For one thing, apparently the brakes are terrible, and they also seem to hate the dangerous display pad on the dash.


This appears to be a software problem related to the ABS system.

Edmunds' track test in April 2018 showed stopping distances of 133 ft with the 18" Primacy MXM4 tires, and 128 ft with the 19" Continentals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLsM5n288qk&feature=youtu.be


CR's latest article on Yahoo says that Tesla says it will issue a software update to solve the problem: https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-says-issue-fix-model-3-brakes-160613678.html?guccounter=1

The car will be retested with the updates: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/consumer-reports-retest-brakes-tesla-model-3/?guccounter=1

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 19:45
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As of the time I replied to Jeff:

FIVE of the top 10 posts in "Today's Reading Links" have Tesla as a topic. All of them are started by people other than myself.

Tesla shipped just over 100,000 cars Worldwide this year, while American Honda ALONE shipped 1,641,429 (from press release Jan 2018 in Rumors and News here). Globally, I think Honda sells over 5,000,000 automobiles/year, and that doesn't even get to generators and motorcycles.

If Honda is an automobile Tiger (200 kilos), Tesla is at best, a small house cat (4 kilos), yet many people here at ToV clearly feel very threatened by this small house cat.

If Tesla is truly as terrible and doomed as people think, why all the anger?

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 02:37
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
As of the time I replied to Jeff:

FIVE of the top 10 posts in "Today's Reading Links" have Tesla as a topic. All of them are started by people other than myself.

Tesla shipped just over 100,000 cars Worldwide this year, while American Honda ALONE shipped 1,641,429 (from press release Jan 2018 in Rumors and News here). Globally, I think Honda sells over 5,000,000 automobiles/year, and that doesn't even get to generators and motorcycles.

If Honda is an automobile Tiger (200 kilos), Tesla is at best, a small house cat (4 kilos), yet many people here at ToV clearly feel very threatened by this small house cat.

If Tesla is truly as terrible and doomed as people think, why all the anger?



Let's not downplay the role your crosslinking and bringing up stuff from thread to thread has. Not 100% of it, but definitely a measurable part of it. I was actually surprised to see Jeff post here to be honest.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 03:36
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-17/tesla-may-require-10-billion-in-funding-by-2020-goldman-says

Elon Musk may need to tap capital markets for more than $10 billion by 2020 to fund Tesla Inc.’s auto-making operations, new products and expected expansion into China, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

While Tesla has options to issue new bonds, convertible notes or equity, each choice would have downsides for investors, Goldman analyst David Tamberrino said in a research note Thursday.


Elon MuskPhotographer: Peter Parks/AFP via Getty Images
“We see several options available to the company to refinance maturing debt and raise incremental funds, which should allow Tesla to fund its growth targets,” Tamberrino wrote. “However, issuing incremental debt (including priming current creditors with secured debt) may weigh on the credit profile of the company while issuing additional equity or convertibles at lower premiums would dilute current shareholders.”

A Tesla spokesman declined to comment.

Cost Cutting


Musk, who co-founded the electric-car maker and serves as chairman and chief executive officer, is cutting costs to avoid raising capital this year. He insists he won’t have to and cut off analysts who asked probing questions on a conference call this month. The company has struggled to meet production targets with what was intended to be its first mass-produced vehicle, the Model 3, and burned through more than $1 billion in the first quarter.


Goldman joins a growing chorus of investors and analysts who see additional financing as not only wise, but vital. Moody’s Investors Service, which downgraded Tesla’s credit rating further into junk in March, expects Tesla will need to raise about $2 billion to offset cash burn this year and account for debt maturities through early 2019. CreditSights has a similar expectation, though that could be less if the company follows through on its production targets or borrows through its bank credit line.

‘Mathematically Correct’

“Tesla’s view that it doesn’t require a debt or equity raise this year is mathematically correct, but highly imprudent from a credit and risk perspective if followed,” Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Joel Levington said in a report last month.

Musk said in July 2016 that Tesla’s ambitions could cost tens of billions of dollars. He added that he didn’t plan on spending billions more right away after a tour of the company’s battery factory in Nevada, which was under construction at the time.

The company set up a unit in China this month, taking a step closer to producing electric vehicles and batteries in the country for the first time.

The shares gained 0.6 percent to $288.07 as of 11:25 a.m. Thursday in New York, and are down about 7.4 percent this year, giving the Palo Alto, California-based company a market value of nearly $49 billion. Its 5.3 percent bonds due 2025 were last quoted at 87.25 cents on the dollar, according to Trace bond-price data.

Goldman’s Tamberrino recommends selling Tesla shares, and sees them slumping 32 percent to $195 over the next six months. The stock has 10 buy ratings, 11 holds and 9 sells, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

— With assistance by Felice Maranz


You are SIGNIFICANTLY downplaying the differences between the Model X and Model 3.

1) The Model 3 simply constitutes more in the line of "over promise and under deliver" timelines, quality metrics and available options for Tesla.

2) The Model X wasn't launched when Telsa's longer term debts were on the verge of maturing.

3) The Model X wasn't THE model that promised to bring Tesla to the mainstream, ensuring large market size and profitability.

4) Of course, none of that even addresses the fact that the specific model that drove the deposit interest (the $35K "entry level" car) is nowhere to be found and seems to not be coming anytime soon. IF it does get here, will it be able to build the volume to stop their absolutely staggering cash burn? Will it be cost effective enough to actually push them to profitability? Will the quality issues be fixed?

Will it all happen before the debts come due?

The last industry I can think of where billion dollar losses were the norm was the airline industry. You know what happened even after government assistance? They all went bankrupt (except the ones that hemorrhage cash). And they have already changed the world. They aren't just promising to do so.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 07:14
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Confusing "threatened" with amusement and wonderment of the initial effectiveness of Musk's snake oil scheme...lol.

Facinating...

qingcong
Profile for qingcong
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 09:37
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atomiclightbulb wrote:

If Honda is an automobile Tiger (200 kilos), Tesla is at best, a small house cat (4 kilos), yet many people here at ToV clearly feel very threatened by this small house cat.

If Tesla is truly as terrible and doomed as people think, why all the anger?




It's sort of an example of the 80/20 principle, in this case 80% of the disruption in the industry is caused by 20% of the industry. 80 & 20 might not be the exact numbers, but Tesla is somewhere in that 20%. Tesla sales are miniscule on the grand scale, but Tesla's disruption is real.

Speaking for myself, I don't know if threatened is the right word. I'm more so annoyed at the various demonstrations of blind faith and flawed reasoning of Tesla/Musk fans, it reminds me of zealots. Just like how people who believe the earth is flat probably make up .001% of the population, but the fact these people exist annoys the crap out of me. Maybe you could say that I feel threatened by the potential that these types of nonsensical people become more mainstream.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 13:18
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It's the same reason why people talk about the president. People talk about Elon and his companies because he's batshit insane. The truth is, other than high level German corporate boardroom drama, the automotive industry is a pretty boring place, and Tesla is the current poster boy of crisis with a CEO in full meltdown mode.

Nobody talked about Tesla when Dieselgate, Ignitiongate and Takata's fuckups were in the news.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 21:13
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CarPhreakD wrote:
It's the same reason why people talk about the president. People talk about Elon and his companies because he's batshit insane. The truth is, other than high level German corporate boardroom drama, the automotive industry is a pretty boring place, and Tesla is the current poster boy of crisis with a CEO in full meltdown mode.

Nobody talked about Tesla when Dieselgate, Ignitiongate and Takata's fuckups were in the news.



Cmon now, really? While I agree that genius approaches the limit of insanity asymptotically as intelligence increases, I think calling Musk batshit insane is out there. The guy has been very effective at getting things done in industries that have felled far more experienced men.

I do think trying to run multiple leading edge companies is too much for any man to handle, but I don't think the guy is nuts. And he's not at good as trolling his detractors as Trump is.

SC

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 21:26
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I see Tesla executives are currently in my home town, discussing building a battery factory at the source. The source of all of the elements that go into the batteries, in an economy and political system that's as stable as you can get, with a highly educated workforce and strong R&D facilities.

It's just that we're at the arse end of the planet :)

Hope they're not expecting the governments to chip in very big incentives...........

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 21:53
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owequitit wrote:
I was actually surprised to see Jeff post here to be honest.


This site should be renamed Temple of Tesla.

The sad reality is that interest in Honda automobiles has cratered. Looking at the front page of ToV (now ToT?), the latest article is about the blue paint on the RDX A-Spec, which has a whopping total of 33 comments. 33. Blue paint. Seriously? ROFL!

Even worse, the article about the latest FlashPro firmware for the Civic Type R (https://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1353678) has 6 comments.

I've been saying this for the past 2-3 years now. If Honda wants to retain any sort of relevance as a leader in automobiles, they have to change with the times. I do not get the sense that Honda is serious about securing batteries for the inevitable BEV transition. Some say it will be easy for Honda to get batteries if BEVs go mainstream, but the industry indications I see point to drastically constrained supply as the transition happens.

Already, batteries are in short supply for the Koreans. Hyundai Ionic BEVs are constrained by lack of batteries: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-ioniq-electric-global-battery-shortage/

GM and Jaguar have existing battery contracts with LG. Much of GM's Bolt, from batteries to electronics, are sourced from LG.

China's capacity is ramping up, but that capacity will be consumed by China's voraciously growing auto industry. Yeah, Chinese cars a a joke right now, but that was once true of Japanese and Korean cars too. In 10-20 years Chinese automakers could easily be globally competitive. The shift to BEVs gives the Chinese a chance to catch complacent competitors off guard.

So far, Honda's BEV plans are only for smaller urban cars, like the Everus and Urban EV (The Clarity BEV is a joke). Forget about Tesla for a minute. Honda is going to get killed by the Koreans, the Chinese, and the Germans, if no serious effort is made to have decent BEV offerings while an inflection takes place. If Honda waits for battery production to ramp up, it will be too late.

As a lifelong customer of Honda vehicles, I don't want to see this happen to Honda. They can either get with the program, or fail to adapt and be crushed.

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-23-2018 22:12
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notyper wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
It's the same reason why people talk about the president. People talk about Elon and his companies because he's batshit insane. The truth is, other than high level German corporate boardroom drama, the automotive industry is a pretty boring place, and Tesla is the current poster boy of crisis with a CEO in full meltdown mode.

Nobody talked about Tesla when Dieselgate, Ignitiongate and Takata's fuckups were in the news.



Cmon now, really? While I agree that genius approaches the limit of insanity asymptotically as intelligence increases, I think calling Musk batshit insane is out there. The guy has been very effective at getting things done in industries that have felled far more experienced men.

I do think trying to run multiple leading edge companies is too much for any man to handle, but I don't think the guy is nuts. And he's not at good as trolling his detractors as Trump is.

SC



This is the major point of contention here at ToV where Elon Musk is concerned.

Based on many of the heated debates I've participated in here, a number of ToV members appear to believe that Musk has not accomplished anything particularly noteworthy.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-24-2018 11:27
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I never said that Grime's boyfriend wasn't effective at getting things done, but the guy is clearly insane, a pretty normal state of mind for Silicon Valley CEOs. He's got dreams of a 5 year old, but he has the money to make it happen (and convince other people to help him make it happen). I think he is far more effective at broad level dreaming but isn't so great as a person who actually runs companies.
KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-24-2018 12:01
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Elon Musk wants to rate journalists. He'd call his site 'Pravda'

Once the Kool Aid effect kicks in...


Steph01
Profile for Steph01
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-24-2018 14:02
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
Based on many of the heated debates I've participated in here, a number of ToV members appear to believe that Musk has not accomplished anything particularly noteworthy.



Nah people are just responding to your ignorance. There is something fundamentally wrong when a piece of mirror glass is attached to the sunvisor with double sided tape so when you accelerate with your 80g's of instant torque it flies in your face. There is something wrong when you release cars that require a customer to QC them.

There is something wrong when your car brakes from x mph can vary by %40, when is last time anybody has heard of that and not require a recall? When is the software update coming? Until someone rear ends a car? I can buy a game that is beta on Steam, it clearly says its in the beta phase, I can accept that it has faults. Can Elon just put a beta label on this car so people know they're getting a unfinished car? The response was quick when that article came out about the brakes, so they knew of this issue already? Did it take consumer reports or edmunds to bring it out?

Oh whats with the dude sleeping in the factory? Whats that all about? The dudes name is on the building, his office is probably bigger then most people apartments. Showers prob a gym in there too. Boo Hoo...I feel real bad for him...lol

Stick with making rockets or whatever. when basic things like attaching a sunvisor mirror with double sided tape (WTF!!!!) is acceptable I wonder whats hidden underneath thats also short cutted.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-24-2018 18:01
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Lol. Maybe I was wrong about Musk's trolling ability. The Pravda thing sounds brilliant and name choice is troll level:master. People already largely distrust the media (and tend to ignore sources that disagree with their views). You could probably really cash in.

SC

fishchan
Profile for fishchan
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-24-2018 20:20
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Sometimes I see all this news and I think, WTF is going on at that side of the world.
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-24-2018 20:27
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Steph01 wrote:

Stick with making rockets or whatever. when basic things like attaching a sunvisor mirror with double sided tape (WTF!!!!) is acceptable I wonder whats hidden underneath thats also short cutted.



Hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of pieces in modern automobiles that use double sided tape or some sort of adhesive. In fact a lot of dealer installed body kits use double sided tape in addition to a couple fasteners.

So, there's that.

SC

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-25-2018 09:39
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To be clear, a small strip of double sided adhesive is not typical operating procedure for a vanity mirror:



DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-25-2018 18:23
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notyper wrote:
Lol. Maybe I was wrong about Musk's trolling ability. The Pravda thing sounds brilliant and name choice is troll level:master. People already largely distrust the media (and tend to ignore sources that disagree with their views). You could probably really cash in.

SC



Musk might have to buy Facebook next, which will keep these sort of posts out of the public eye.



owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-26-2018 03:09
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
I was actually surprised to see Jeff post here to be honest.


This site should be renamed Temple of Tesla


Sorry, didn't really read any further than this.

1) The majority of threads posted and discussed are still about Honda, even if they aren't good.

2) The Tesla threads are popular here because it is fun to brow beat the zealots.

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-26-2018 03:14
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http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/honda-thinks-small-cheap-ev-just-right-fit/

Out of the blue, but looking forward to news about Honda EV's, just to know they are still in the race at least for city and compact cars (last year Honda City EV concept was fabulous designed)

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-26-2018 03:15
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
notyper wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
It's the same reason why people talk about the president. People talk about Elon and his companies because he's batshit insane. The truth is, other than high level German corporate boardroom drama, the automotive industry is a pretty boring place, and Tesla is the current poster boy of crisis with a CEO in full meltdown mode.

Nobody talked about Tesla when Dieselgate, Ignitiongate and Takata's fuckups were in the news.



Cmon now, really? While I agree that genius approaches the limit of insanity asymptotically as intelligence increases, I think calling Musk batshit insane is out there. The guy has been very effective at getting things done in industries that have felled far more experienced men.

I do think trying to run multiple leading edge companies is too much for any man to handle, but I don't think the guy is nuts. And he's not at good as trolling his detractors as Trump is.

SC



This is the major point of contention here at ToV where Elon Musk is concerned.

Based on many of the heated debates I've participated in here, a number of ToV members appear to believe that Musk has not accomplished anything particularly noteworthy.



That's a shamefully constructed straw man and you know it.

The difference is NOT whether he has done anything "noteworthy" and is instead about the magnitude of his accomplishments. Some on here *cough* want to pretend he has reinvented the universe. Some prefer more perspective.

But hey, data is fake if it doesn't agree with your bias right?

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-26-2018 09:02
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owequitit wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
I was actually surprised to see Jeff post here to be honest.


This site should be renamed Temple of Tesla


Sorry, didn't really read any further than this.

1) The majority of threads posted and discussed are still about Honda, even if they aren't good.


My comment about Temple of Tesla was related to my earlier post in this thread @ 05-22-2018 19:45, where I stated that 5 of the top 10 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" forum were Tesla related.

"Today's Reading Links" is a heavily trafficked area of the forum. The fact that there is so much discussion about Tesla says a lot: people are discussing Tesla a lot more than Honda in this section.


2) The Tesla threads are popular here because it is fun to brow beat the zealots.


You think it is fun to intimidate and bully people? Because that is what brow beating is.

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-26-2018 09:34
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owequitit wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
notyper wrote:Cmon now, really? While I agree that genius approaches the limit of insanity asymptotically as intelligence increases, I think calling Musk batshit insane is out there. The guy has been very effective at getting things done in industries that have felled far more experienced men.

I do think trying to run multiple leading edge companies is too much for any man to handle, but I don't think the guy is nuts. And he's not at good as trolling his detractors as Trump is.

SC


This is the major point of contention here at ToV where Elon Musk is concerned.

Based on many of the heated debates I've participated in here, a number of ToV members appear to believe that Musk has not accomplished anything particularly noteworthy.



That's a shamefully constructed straw man and you know it.

The difference is NOT whether he has done anything "noteworthy" and is instead about the magnitude of his accomplishments.


You are making no sense.

"Noteworthy" by definition has to do with magnitude of something, often excellence:

": worthy of or attracting attention especially because of some special excellence * a noteworthy contribution" - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noteworthy

"deserving attention because of being important or interesting:"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/noteworthy



Some on here *cough* want to pretend he has reinvented the universe. Some prefer more perspective.

But hey, data is fake if it doesn't agree with your bias right?


If you are going to accuse people of making up "straw men", it doesn't help your argument that you then do this yourself in the same post.

For the record, I don't believe that Musk has "reinvented" the universe. My belief is that he has cleverly combined existing technologies to push several different industries (money transfer, automobiles, and orbital launches) in new directions.

Steve Jobs did not invent the cellular phone, computer, or touch screen display, but he did combine them into something far different and more functional than what had previously existed in the mobile device market. Likewise, Elon Musk did not invent rockets, titanium machining, hydraulics, ablative coatings, or servos, but he did piece these and other technologies together to create a relatively inexpensive 1st stage orbital booster that could land itself back on Earth and be reused. So your hypocritical insinuation that I think Musk has "reinvented the universe" is complete bunk.

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-26-2018 11:44
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DCR wrote:
Musk might have to buy Facebook next, which will keep these sort of posts out of the public eye.




I looked into this story.

The driver of this car is a FaceBook personality named You You Xue. He bought a Tesla Model 3 for road tripping, and had the car transported for use in Europe, despite warnings from Tesla that (1) the car would have no Internet connectivity/Mapping in the EU, (2) Tesla facilities in the EU were not authorized to service the Model 3, because the car was not yet for sale in in the EU, and presumably service centers not trained on the car, (3) The Tesla Supercharger connector in the EU is different than the one used in North America.

In a post on Reddit, You You Xue released a statement on his accident today: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8m8bn4/my_statement_regarding_the_collision_on_autopilot/

It's a long read, but the major points are:

(1) Highway was 2 lanes in each direction, weather conditions good.

(2) You You admits: "I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road"

(3) At a fork in the highway where one lane leads to an exit, the Model 3 quickly changed lanes to the Right while You You was looking at his phone.

(4) You You grabbed the steering wheel and turned it to steer the Model 3 out of the exit ramp lane.

(5) The Model 3 was already on course on the exit ramp lane, and You You's attempted correction (presumably to the Left, it is unclear from his description) crashed the left side of the Model 3 into the right side of the divider that separates the exit ramp from the lanes where the highway continues. The side of the car was smashed and scraped, but airbags did not deploy. You You was uninjured in the accident.


There is additional thing to note about You You Xue.

He has a history of reckless behavior using Autopilot. He admitted to Reveal News that during his road trip:

"“I’ll confess that I have fallen asleep on the road at least 15 to 25 times on the journey,” Xue said." - https://www.revealnews.org/blog/tesla-fan-autopilot-glitches-brought-peril-to-road-trip/

You You also posted a video to Facebook of using the Autopilot in Model 3 at night, with the headlights TURNED OFF: https://www.facebook.com/tsla3/videos/940152862822850/

This is extremely reckless, given that the Autopilot system uses a front camera array to work. Also, it is illegal in most localities, because not having lights on reduces visibility that drivers in other cars have of one's car.

Autopilot is not even close to perfect, but I don't think this accident can be blamed on Tesla. You You Xue admits that he behaved recklessly in this situation, and has a history of behaving recklessly. He is also 20 yrs old and very wealthy.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-26-2018 18:48
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CarPhreakD wrote:
To be clear, a small strip of double sided adhesive is not typical operating procedure for a vanity mirror:




No one said typical, but double sided adhesives are fairly common in autos these days. Of course, we could be worse off, like those poor Lotus Elise/Exige owners. If you've ever taken apart the interior of one of those cars, the concept of "poorly built kit car" comes quickly to mind.

SC

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Tesla - facts behind the mirage    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-28-2018 02:53
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
I was actually surprised to see Jeff post here to be honest.


This site should be renamed Temple of Tesla


Sorry, didn't really read any further than this.

1) The majority of threads posted and discussed are still about Honda, even if they aren't good.


My comment about Temple of Tesla was related to my earlier post in this thread @ 05-22-2018 19:45, where I stated that 5 of the top 10 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" forum were Tesla related.

"Today's Reading Links" is a heavily trafficked area of the forum. The fact that there is so much discussion about Tesla says a lot: people are discussing Tesla a lot more than Honda in this section.


2) The Tesla threads are popular here because it is fun to brow beat the zealots.


You think it is fun to intimidate and bully people? Because that is what brow beating is.



Nope. It isn't bullying just because you don't agree with it.


 
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