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TOV Forums > Fuel Cell Technology > > Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps

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TonyEX
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New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-13-2018 15:00
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So, at UCI they changed the H70 pump.

The new one is a sort of barrel shaped with no handle. As you push it in it locks automatically and you release it by pushing the outer ring forward.

They claim it won't ice as much. I believe the claim because I filled up in a cloudy, drizzly, humid day and there was no ice formation on the nozzle.

However, it's a PITA to put in. I guess it must go straight in and I could not get it done. The guy in the Hyundai that pulled behind me showed me . My wife told me she's able to do it, so I guess I just have to learn. The Hyundai guy noted that I have a slight angle to how I inserted... hmm... figures. Always pushing to the right.

Anyhow, when I went to fill up it was mid morning so there were no Toyotas around. The Hyundai guy also noted that until the Mirai sales avalanche started, he was able to use UCI whenever he felt like it. Now, the place is swarmed with damn Toyotas. That is also my experience. Mid day morning is fine, but any other time and you see a line of Toyotas everywhere.

myhui
Profile for myhui
Re: New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-13-2018 23:50
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How many Mirai have sold versus how many Clarity have sold? I know Toyota can get super aggressive price wise, because they can afford to, but it's the actual sales figures that I am curious about.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-14-2018 17:37
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myhui wrote:
How many Mirai have sold versus how many Clarity have sold? I know Toyota can get super aggressive price wise, because they can afford to, but it's the actual sales figures that I am curious about.


I believe they've sold over 3000 in California so far.

The H2 refueling infrastructure can't handle that many!

NoClarity
Profile for NoClarity
Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night Re: New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 15:51
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If it makes you feel better, last night I dodged a bullet and beat a Mirai by a half minute.

Late last night at around 9:30 PM, I squeaked by to the H2 station with around -10 miles of range (although, officially since the last software update, the range is stuck at 0 no matter what). I could have filled it up at the other station earlier, but just didn't want to be late picking up my daughter.

At about 4.4 kg, the pump screen shows Fuel un-available, and then shortly, it says "Dispenser un-available"

I almost felt bad to the white Mirai behind me. I wonder if he has to wait another 10 minutes for the pressure to be backed up, or this is it, i.e. if it's capacity of say 100 cars per day has been exhausted, then, no more H2 for you buddy???

When I first got there, almost got nervous seeing the pump all iced up. It usually indicates that the previous guy sucks a lot of H2, or the pump was in heavy use earlier.

But, I was relieved when it started pumping, 1/2 kg, 1kg, and so on. As long as I have a little bit of something to go home or to go the other station, I don't feel alarmed.

But, then again, for this one station in San Ramon that I rarely go, it's been twice that if my range in the low teens, I have to fill up with h35 first. I cannot imagine if I do not know this trick when my fuel was really low that day. Also, I cannot imagine if the Mirai got there first last night....

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 20:43
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Thanks for holding up our side.

A few weeks ago I was making a left across the street into the H2 station and I let this Mirai go down the road when suddenly the asshole slows down and turns into the station (making a right) with no turn signal.

Then I had to wait 10 minutes to get my turn.

Fuckers.

I don't know about you, but I really hate Mirais and Priuses. There's simply too many of them and I don't think the dealers explain to their customers what the hell they're getting into and there's so many damn Mirais that they scavenge all the hydrogen.

It's almost as if Toyota is intent in killing off the H2 cars by exhausting the supply of fuel and creating a real bad self fulfilling prophecy.

When did you get that firmware upgrade? I believe my wife refills when she gets down to 60 mile range.

NoClarity
Profile for NoClarity
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 21:51
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Ha ha ha... the fuckers cut you off huh?

When it was pretty new, and I was inexperienced, on the way to the San Ramon station, I saw a burgundy Clarity FCV waiting on the light to change. Knowing that the chance of him about to filing up at the same station I was about to go is high, I accelerated and be there first.

I felt bad, because that's the first time out of the two that I mentioned above that I had to fill up with H35 first. I got this tip from him, and in the process letting him filing up his first. He is a dealer principal. He was very nice and offered me a ride if the H35 method didn't work out. It was his first time seeing this in action too, with me as a guinea pig from "what he heard from people"

There is a couple of Mirais and Clarities park outside in my neighborhood, but honestly, at the H2 station that I frequented, I see more Clarity than Mirai. Maybe it's an LA vs. SF thing.

About the software update, it's the one and only recall we both took care already.

I swear I saw a negative range before, but last night, it got stuck at 0.

Also, last night was also the first time I saw an inital instant range calculation of 175 miles/kg. Of course, it's just initial error after I hit the reset button while driving after pulling out of the H2 station. It recalculate correctly after a second or two.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 00:43
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TonyEX wrote:
Thanks for holding up our side.

A few weeks ago I was making a left across the street into the H2 station and I let this Mirai go down the road when suddenly the asshole slows down and turns into the station (making a right) with no turn signal.

Then I had to wait 10 minutes to get my turn.

Fuckers.

I don't know about you, but I really hate Mirais and Priuses. There's simply too many of them and I don't think the dealers explain to their customers what the hell they're getting into and there's so many damn Mirais that they scavenge all the hydrogen.

It's almost as if Toyota is intent in killing off the H2 cars by exhausting the supply of fuel and creating a real bad self fulfilling prophecy.

When did you get that firmware upgrade? I believe my wife refills when she gets down to 60 mile range.



Well in any state with smart leadership, it would result in more stations...

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 13:55
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owequitit wrote:
Well in any state with smart leadership, it would result in more stations...



I am confused as to what the problem is here. You have a car that needs the fuel, so...go there, and if there is a wait, well, you wait. You chose the car, so now you chose the life.



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 19:22
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DCR wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Well in any state with smart leadership, it would result in more stations...



I am confused as to what the problem is here. You have a car that needs the fuel, so...go there, and if there is a wait, well, you wait. You chose the car, so now you chose the life.





No, when we chose the car we didn't plan on Toyota starting to flood the market with H2 cars.

They are attempting to do for fuel cells what they did for hybrids... put their name out on the forefront.

The issue is that the Soviet Apparatchiks who control the licensing of fuel stations in Calimexistan move slower than crunchy peanut butter left by an outdoor ice rink in a Michigan winter. There are a few stations near by that have been in the "approval" process for two years... when in reality all they consist of is one big tank, one compressor, one hook up to the electric company and a connection to the Internet to bill you.

But the commies are all drunk.

So, for Toyota to sell so many cars while outstripping the supply of fuel on the market is to pretty much kill the whole thing.

If the Calimexistan State would get out of the way, things would be much better. The Free Market would by now have twice as many places to refuel. At $14.99 (low end) per Kg there is profit to be made.


DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 20:07
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TonyEX wrote:
No, when we chose the car we didn't plan


DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 20:13
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I am also not seeing this massive sales increase, unless this is way off?

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-mirai/

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 23:44
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DCR wrote:
I am also not seeing this massive sales increase, unless this is way off?

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-mirai/



It's all relative. He's saying that there are over 3000 Mirais in California, and far fewer Clarities. But they're all competing for the same limited infrastructure, and he's tired of getting swamped out by the Mirais.

I was in LA in December for a couple days and I actually saw a handful of Mirais on the road during the limited time that we were actually driving. I did see a Clarity but I couldn't tell if it was FCEV, BEV, or PHEV. And that one was in Torrance so it may have been a Honda employee, haha.

I sort of expected to maybe never see a Clarity PHEV on the road here where I live, but to my amazement, I've actually seen around a 1/2 dozen of them already.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 16:33
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TonyEX wrote:
DCR wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Well in any state with smart leadership, it would result in more stations...



I am confused as to what the problem is here. You have a car that needs the fuel, so...go there, and if there is a wait, well, you wait. You chose the car, so now you chose the life.





No, when we chose the car we didn't plan on Toyota starting to flood the market with H2 cars.

They are attempting to do for fuel cells what they did for hybrids... put their name out on the forefront.

The issue is that the Soviet Apparatchiks who control the licensing of fuel stations in Calimexistan move slower than crunchy peanut butter left by an outdoor ice rink in a Michigan winter. There are a few stations near by that have been in the "approval" process for two years... when in reality all they consist of is one big tank, one compressor, one hook up to the electric company and a connection to the Internet to bill you.

But the commies are all drunk.

So, for Toyota to sell so many cars while outstripping the supply of fuel on the market is to pretty much kill the whole thing.

If the Calimexistan State would get out of the way, things would be much better. The Free Market would by now have twice as many places to refuel. At $14.99 (low end) per Kg there is profit to be made.




That's how free market works Tony.

Demand outstrips supply, equilibrium price increases, demand pushes more stations...

It isn't without its growing pains though.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 16:36
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JeffX wrote:
DCR wrote:
I am also not seeing this massive sales increase, unless this is way off?

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-mirai/



It's all relative. He's saying that there are over 3000 Mirais in California, and far fewer Clarities. But they're all competing for the same limited infrastructure, and he's tired of getting swamped out by the Mirais.

I was in LA in December for a couple days and I actually saw a handful of Mirais on the road during the limited time that we were actually driving. I did see a Clarity but I couldn't tell if it was FCEV, BEV, or PHEV. And that one was in Torrance so it may have been a Honda employee, haha.

I sort of expected to maybe never see a Clarity PHEV on the road here where I live, but to my amazement, I've actually seen around a 1/2 dozen of them already.


Maybe we ought to send 1200 of our Mirais up to Ann Arbor. See how he likes that. I know it would clear up the long lines in some of those fueling stations (like the one in Anaheim).

He'll never see an FCEV in Michigan in the foreseable future. The range and efficiency of the H2 Fuel Cell drops in cold weather.

We see a claimed 280 mile range per tank in the winter, 320 in the summer. I gassed up today (*) and I saw a range of 298 miles. It's a cold 69F May Gray day.

BTW, I've seen a few more Clarities lately. Most are BEVs or even PHEVs. But I have seen a few more FCEVs too. As I was fueling at UCI this AM at around 10:30A (No cars, no Mirais hogging it) a new Clarity FCEV came up behind me.

(*) We've agreed to share cars for a while. I have the Clarity on Fridays, she gets La Black Mamba... the truck needs some miles. It's at 5100 miles after 10 months, including a round trip to the Bay Area. Elle Est Noir already has more than 11K miles in nine months.







TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 17:09
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owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
DCR wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Well in any state with smart leadership, it would result in more stations...



I am confused as to what the problem is here. You have a car that needs the fuel, so...go there, and if there is a wait, well, you wait. You chose the car, so now you chose the life.





No, when we chose the car we didn't plan on Toyota starting to flood the market with H2 cars.

They are attempting to do for fuel cells what they did for hybrids... put their name out on the forefront.

The issue is that the Soviet Apparatchiks who control the licensing of fuel stations in Calimexistan move slower than crunchy peanut butter left by an outdoor ice rink in a Michigan winter. There are a few stations near by that have been in the "approval" process for two years... when in reality all they consist of is one big tank, one compressor, one hook up to the electric company and a connection to the Internet to bill you.

But the commies are all drunk.

So, for Toyota to sell so many cars while outstripping the supply of fuel on the market is to pretty much kill the whole thing.

If the Calimexistan State would get out of the way, things would be much better. The Free Market would by now have twice as many places to refuel. At $14.99 (low end) per Kg there is profit to be made.




That's how free market works Tony.

Demand outstrips supply, equilibrium price increases, demand pushes more stations...

It isn't without its growing pains though.



The problem is that Calimexistan is NOT a free market when it comes to putting up fuel stations of any kind. You need permits from many layers of people who want to cover their ass in case some lawyer starts suing over some unrelated minutiae ( we are overrun by lawyers around here...).

So, the supply of cars should be reflected by the supply of fuel. In a free market this would taken care of. So how do we handle the case where one automaker has decided to pretty much flood the market and outstrip the fuel resources for all? Since the state gives a free tax incentive up to a given amount, it means that Toyota is taking a huge disavantage here... so perhaps Toyota might return the favor and open up some H2 fueling stations (**).

Toyota wants to become synonymous with Fuel Cell even thought their current technology is 2n gen (Honda's is 3rd gen). And in doing so is killing if for all automakers. They are not informing their customers so well, heck, if you want to see an uninformed Fuel Cell owner, talk to a Mirai owner. They might as well be driving a... Prius. (*)

Naturally, they moved out of Torrance. Good luck to Texans.

(*) Funny, when we went to test drive the Clarity FCEV in OC in Nov of '16 we met many such "Friends of Gaia" people who wanted an FCEV because it was going to save the Earth.

Man, did I have a fantastic time pissing them off. I just noted that I did not care a whit and I would not mind driving a six pack with a four on the floor if it were available, but that the car pool access stickers and the EV's low end torque would simply seal the deal, as I could cut off a lot of traffic on the 405 and haul ass at the same time.

It turns out, btw, that I was the only one that really knew about EVs from the seat of the pants, most of them had... Prius... By then we were in our second Accord iMMD ( direct electric motor drive, remember?) and our Civic IMA. So, the 'friends of Gaia' crowd were aghast that someone wanted an EV because it "hauls ass off the line".

;-)

(**) The UCI H2 fuel station is supported by an UCI research center.. supported by the Feds, California, BMW, Hyundai and Honda. I don't see no stinking Toyota supporting that. See? Do you see now why I'm pissed off? Toyota seems to be getting a fucking free ride!



DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 19:32
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You can send every Toyota you want to Ann Arbor, I don't live there.

TonyEX wrote:
(**) The UCI H2 fuel station is supported by an UCI research center.. supported by the Feds, California, BMW, Hyundai and Honda. I don't see no stinking Toyota supporting that. See? Do you see now why I'm pissed off? Toyota seems to be getting a fucking free ride!



Is this the same station discussed here, or a different one?

http://www.nfcrc.uci.edu/3/research/keyInitiatives/hydrogen/IrvineHydrogenFuelingStation.aspx

First Generation Hydrogen Fueling Station

The First Generation fueling system, the Air Products "SFC-2," was built with funding from Toyota, and commissioned in January 2003.

Second Generation Hydrogen Fueling Station

The Second Generation fueling system, the Air Products "Series 100," was funded by Toyota and commissioned in November 2003.

Third Generation Hydrogen Fueling Station

The Third Generation fueling system, with the Air Products “Series 200” at its core, was built during the third quarter of 2006. Funding was provided by the South Coast Air Quality Management District, U.S. Department of Energy, Toyota, Honda and BMW.

Fourth Generation Hydrogen Fueling Station
The Fourth Generation fueling station was constructed during the summer of 2015. Funding from the station was provided by the California Energy Commission. The station features the Air Products “S700” compressor at its core, and is the first generation station to be fully equipped to service the emerging commercial hydrogen vehicle market.





TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 21:40
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It's the 3rd one.

Toyota's name is no longer there... it's BMW now.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 21:43
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TonyEX wrote:
It's the 3rd one.

Toyota's name is no longer there... it's BMW now.



Actually, it's the 4th one. It's in the same spot as the 3rd one.

Again, Toyota's name is missing. This is one of the largest, more reliable and best maintained stations around. Perhaps because UCI has some FC buses that need the fuel.

NoClarity
Profile for NoClarity
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 22:07
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When I was in LA, I saw a bunch of Mirais parked under the freeway overpass. All LA City/Government vehicles.

I bet it's the same taxpayer sucking purchase like the un-used BMW i3.

And, as luck has it, today, I had to wait for the Toyota Mirai when I filled up my Clarity.

Very rarely happened to me until I wrote the above. Maybe I should start typing that every time I go to the H2 station, the lines are 10 Clarities long each time.

Then, it'll be always empty.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 22:33
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NoClarity wrote:
When I was in LA, I saw a bunch of Mirais parked under the freeway overpass. All LA City/Government vehicles.

I bet it's the same taxpayer sucking purchase like the un-used BMW i3.

And, as luck has it, today, I had to wait for the Toyota Mirai when I filled up my Clarity.

Very rarely happened to me until I wrote the above. Maybe I should start typing that every time I go to the H2 station, the lines are 10 Clarities long each time.

Then, it'll be always empty.



If you during lunch or after 4:00PM... or on the weekends, you see three or four of those fuckers holding up the line.

10:00AM is a good time... Those morons are all at work in their brainless paper pushing jobs.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-18-2018 23:43
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TonyEX wrote:
NoClarity wrote:
When I was in LA, I saw a bunch of Mirais parked under the freeway overpass. All LA City/Government vehicles.

I bet it's the same taxpayer sucking purchase like the un-used BMW i3.

And, as luck has it, today, I had to wait for the Toyota Mirai when I filled up my Clarity.

Very rarely happened to me until I wrote the above. Maybe I should start typing that every time I go to the H2 station, the lines are 10 Clarities long each time.

Then, it'll be always empty.



If you during lunch or after 4:00PM... or on the weekends, you see three or four of those fuckers holding up the line.

10:00AM is a good time... Those morons are all at work in their brainless paper pushing jobs.



I wonder what the Mirai owners think about the Clarity owners?

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-19-2018 11:50
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superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
NoClarity wrote:
When I was in LA, I saw a bunch of Mirais parked under the freeway overpass. All LA City/Government vehicles.

I bet it's the same taxpayer sucking purchase like the un-used BMW i3.

And, as luck has it, today, I had to wait for the Toyota Mirai when I filled up my Clarity.

Very rarely happened to me until I wrote the above. Maybe I should start typing that every time I go to the H2 station, the lines are 10 Clarities long each time.

Then, it'll be always empty.



If you during lunch or after 4:00PM... or on the weekends, you see three or four of those fuckers holding up the line.

10:00AM is a good time... Those morons are all at work in their brainless paper pushing jobs.



I wonder what the Mirai owners think about the Clarity owners?



I don't know that they think much, but they don't see many of us because we're a drop in a bucket compared to them.

Like the guy who was filling up his car and then went out to take a look at the street.... while we were waiting behind him. Finally I walked out and VERY LOUDLY announced the the car was FULL..

"Oh" he said, and then walked back to this car.

Or the guy who was pouring flavored water on the nozzle to unfreeze it.


owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-19-2018 23:58
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TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
DCR wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Well in any state with smart leadership, it would result in more stations...



I am confused as to what the problem is here. You have a car that needs the fuel, so...go there, and if there is a wait, well, you wait. You chose the car, so now you chose the life.





No, when we chose the car we didn't plan on Toyota starting to flood the market with H2 cars.

They are attempting to do for fuel cells what they did for hybrids... put their name out on the forefront.

The issue is that the Soviet Apparatchiks who control the licensing of fuel stations in Calimexistan move slower than crunchy peanut butter left by an outdoor ice rink in a Michigan winter. There are a few stations near by that have been in the "approval" process for two years... when in reality all they consist of is one big tank, one compressor, one hook up to the electric company and a connection to the Internet to bill you.

But the commies are all drunk.

So, for Toyota to sell so many cars while outstripping the supply of fuel on the market is to pretty much kill the whole thing.

If the Calimexistan State would get out of the way, things would be much better. The Free Market would by now have twice as many places to refuel. At $14.99 (low end) per Kg there is profit to be made.




That's how free market works Tony.

Demand outstrips supply, equilibrium price increases, demand pushes more stations...

It isn't without its growing pains though.



The problem is that Calimexistan is NOT a free market when it comes to putting up fuel stations of any kind. You need permits from many layers of people who want to cover their ass in case some lawyer starts suing over some unrelated minutiae ( we are overrun by lawyers around here...).

So, the supply of cars should be reflected by the supply of fuel. In a free market this would taken care of. So how do we handle the case where one automaker has decided to pretty much flood the market and outstrip the fuel resources for all? Since the state gives a free tax incentive up to a given amount, it means that Toyota is taking a huge disavantage here... so perhaps Toyota might return the favor and open up some H2 fueling stations (**).

Toyota wants to become synonymous with Fuel Cell even thought their current technology is 2n gen (Honda's is 3rd gen). And in doing so is killing if for all automakers. They are not informing their customers so well, heck, if you want to see an uninformed Fuel Cell owner, talk to a Mirai owner. They might as well be driving a... Prius. (*)

Naturally, they moved out of Torrance. Good luck to Texans.

(*) Funny, when we went to test drive the Clarity FCEV in OC in Nov of '16 we met many such "Friends of Gaia" people who wanted an FCEV because it was going to save the Earth.

Man, did I have a fantastic time pissing them off. I just noted that I did not care a whit and I would not mind driving a six pack with a four on the floor if it were available, but that the car pool access stickers and the EV's low end torque would simply seal the deal, as I could cut off a lot of traffic on the 405 and haul ass at the same time.

It turns out, btw, that I was the only one that really knew about EVs from the seat of the pants, most of them had... Prius... By then we were in our second Accord iMMD ( direct electric motor drive, remember?) and our Civic IMA. So, the 'friends of Gaia' crowd were aghast that someone wanted an EV because it "hauls ass off the line".

;-)

(**) The UCI H2 fuel station is supported by an UCI research center.. supported by the Feds, California, BMW, Hyundai and Honda. I don't see no stinking Toyota supporting that. See? Do you see now why I'm pissed off? Toyota seems to be getting a fucking free ride!





I wasn't arguing the semantics of California. Their politics are beyond screwed and they will ultimately pay the price for that. I hate to say it, but they have reaped what they have sown.

That said, my point was that the rise in supply does not happen instantaneously with the rise in demand. There has been a sudden and massive increase in demand for H2, and supply has clearly not kept up.

This may end up being a case where California ends up following because states like Texas will readily deploy it if there is enough demand. They have relatively low barriers to entry, tons of space, and the willingness to put them in place.

As for Toyota in Texas, I lived just down the road from their headquarters in Plano and they (in addition to FedEx and State Farm) were driving a tremendous amount of growth in the Plano area. The only complaint I had was that they were going into California style bidding wars on houses and needlessly inflating prices when there was plenty of new houses to choose from. I understand it to a degree because some areas were closer and nicer than others, but it is the same thing they do that crashes the California market every 10 years or so and subsequently the AZ and NV markets.

That said, I am all for getting as many H2 vehicles on the road as possible because the sooner that happens, the sooner the infrastructure to support them becomes viable, feasible and necessary. We can eventually move away from reformation and develop H2 using more efficient and green technologies.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 02:30
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owequitit wrote:
...
That said, I am all for getting as many H2 vehicles on the road as possible because the sooner that happens, the sooner the infrastructure to support them becomes viable, feasible and necessary. We can eventually move away from reformation and develop H2 using more efficient and green technologies.



Owe, forget the green and efficient stuff.

Once you've driven a car with an electric motor driving the wheels directly (forget ALL hybrids except iMMD) you find it very hard to go back to an ICE with its vibrations and slow transmission.

The immediate throttle response, the smoothness and quietness of the power train are simply intoxicating.

If Honda would only make an H2 car with the torque of a Tesla S or X... even if they charged 50K (expensive motors)... that would put the CTR to shame. Seriously.

Unless, of course, you got a true American Iron with enough torque and power to tow your house. But those are no longer being made.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 02:47
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TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
...
That said, I am all for getting as many H2 vehicles on the road as possible because the sooner that happens, the sooner the infrastructure to support them becomes viable, feasible and necessary. We can eventually move away from reformation and develop H2 using more efficient and green technologies.



Owe, forget the green and efficient stuff.

Once you've driven a car with an electric motor driving the wheels directly (forget ALL hybrids except iMMD) you find it very hard to go back to an ICE with its vibrations and slow transmission.

The immediate throttle response, the smoothness and quietness of the power train are simply intoxicating.

If Honda would only make an H2 car with the torque of a Tesla S or X... even if they charged 50K (expensive motors)... that would put the CTR to shame. Seriously.

Unless, of course, you got a true American Iron with enough torque and power to tow your house. But those are no longer being made.



Au contraire, mon frère.



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 12:39
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My thoughts..

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/the-top-muscle-cars-of-the-60s-and-70s-ar110523.html

The Corvette has always been an outlier. I was thinking of a car with a plain pedigree and a backseat that somehow had an engine that was made to drink gasoline, gulp air and burn tires.

Hopefully in a stealthy mode, sort of. As in Dodge Charger RT instead of Dodge Charger Daytona.

The 'Vette has NEVER been a stealthy car.

Imagination Time: Driving an Odyssey with a turbo J35T, 8SMG, SH-AWD and upgraded parts from HPD. Or... better, a 2.4T hooked up to a front iMMD, with a rear pair of electric motors....system total something in the order of 480 lb-fts of torque with 340 bhp....




superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 14:04
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TonyEX wrote:
My thoughts..

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/the-top-muscle-cars-of-the-60s-and-70s-ar110523.html

The Corvette has always been an outlier. I was thinking of a car with a plain pedigree and a backseat that somehow had an engine that was made to drink gasoline, gulp air and burn tires.

Hopefully in a stealthy mode, sort of. As in Dodge Charger RT instead of Dodge Charger Daytona.

The 'Vette has NEVER been a stealthy car.

Imagination Time: Driving an Odyssey with a turbo J35T, 8SMG, SH-AWD and upgraded parts from HPD. Or... better, a 2.4T hooked up to a front iMMD, with a rear pair of electric motors....system total something in the order of 480 lb-fts of torque with 340 bhp....


Speaking of stealth.

Aren't you the very same fellow who talked about wanting a triple spoiler about 5 feet tall on the back of his new car ?!


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 14:32
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
My thoughts..

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/the-top-muscle-cars-of-the-60s-and-70s-ar110523.html

The Corvette has always been an outlier. I was thinking of a car with a plain pedigree and a backseat that somehow had an engine that was made to drink gasoline, gulp air and burn tires.

Hopefully in a stealthy mode, sort of. As in Dodge Charger RT instead of Dodge Charger Daytona.

The 'Vette has NEVER been a stealthy car.

Imagination Time: Driving an Odyssey with a turbo J35T, 8SMG, SH-AWD and upgraded parts from HPD. Or... better, a 2.4T hooked up to a front iMMD, with a rear pair of electric motors....system total something in the order of 480 lb-fts of torque with 340 bhp....


Speaking of stealth.

Aren't you the very same fellow who talked about wanting a triple spoiler about 5 feet tall on the back of his new car ?!




Yes.

I don't have to be consistent in my choice of car for the Scuderia.

To wit, La Escuderia In'N'Out:

06 Civic IMA Navi
09 Fit Sport 5MT Navi
16 Civic Coupe Touring (with the full OEM aero kit)
18 Ridgeline Black Edition
18 Clarity FCEV

See?



superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 15:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
My thoughts..

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/the-top-muscle-cars-of-the-60s-and-70s-ar110523.html

The Corvette has always been an outlier. I was thinking of a car with a plain pedigree and a backseat that somehow had an engine that was made to drink gasoline, gulp air and burn tires.

Hopefully in a stealthy mode, sort of. As in Dodge Charger RT instead of Dodge Charger Daytona.

The 'Vette has NEVER been a stealthy car.

Imagination Time: Driving an Odyssey with a turbo J35T, 8SMG, SH-AWD and upgraded parts from HPD. Or... better, a 2.4T hooked up to a front iMMD, with a rear pair of electric motors....system total something in the order of 480 lb-fts of torque with 340 bhp....


Speaking of stealth.

Aren't you the very same fellow who talked about wanting a triple spoiler about 5 feet tall on the back of his new car ?!




Yes.

I don't have to be consistent in my choice of car for the Scuderia.

To wit, La Escuderia In'N'Out:

06 Civic IMA Navi
09 Fit Sport 5MT Navi
16 Civic Coupe Touring (with the full OEM aero kit)
18 Ridgeline Black Edition
18 Clarity FCEV

See?


Consistently Honda!

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Beat a Mirai to the H2 station last night New style H70 pumps    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 15:48
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
...
That said, I am all for getting as many H2 vehicles on the road as possible because the sooner that happens, the sooner the infrastructure to support them becomes viable, feasible and necessary. We can eventually move away from reformation and develop H2 using more efficient and green technologies.



Owe, forget the green and efficient stuff.

Once you've driven a car with an electric motor driving the wheels directly (forget ALL hybrids except iMMD) you find it very hard to go back to an ICE with its vibrations and slow transmission.

The immediate throttle response, the smoothness and quietness of the power train are simply intoxicating.

If Honda would only make an H2 car with the torque of a Tesla S or X... even if they charged 50K (expensive motors)... that would put the CTR to shame. Seriously.

Unless, of course, you got a true American Iron with enough torque and power to tow your house. But those are no longer being made.



Tony, I've driven electric cars and iMMD hybrids. Not impressed.

I much prefer a row-my-own box (funny how its ALWAYS in the gear I want it in) attached to a screaming a banshee of an engine.

The torque also gives the ILLUSION of speed. In many cases, they aren't that much faster and certainly not by as much as they feel.

Different strokes for different folks. My best friends has a 2017 Accord Hybrid. I am not really a fan 90% of the time. It's nice when putting through traffic in electric only, but as soon as it needs beans above 10MPH or the ICE has to come on to keep up, the effect is spoiled.

I'm also not terribly impressed with the RLX E-SH-SH-AWD or the NSX versus a lighter, higher ICE powered version. Give me the sticky tired, lightweight, high strung car any day. Probably why the 911 GT3 Touring is currently my personal favorite.


 
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