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TOV Forums > NSX > > Re: 2020 NSX Type-R

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silverf16
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 00:32
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Japanese media reports a power increase to 641 horses.

Japanese media says a higher performance NSX is coming. The conclusion? Acura's flagship is about to get the Type R treatment.

According to Spyder 7, the NSX Type R will feature powertrain components derived from the NSX GTR race car, increasing output from the current 573 horsepower to an estimated 641. It's not clear whether its hybrid motors would be part of the equation.

Like the NSX GT3, much of the the body would have carbon fiber construction. The grille, front air dam for which there is already a patent for a design not found on the current NSX and side skirts would exhibit exposed carbon fiber. A large rear wing and a black canopy hearken back to the Type R NSXes of the 1990s. Of course, it would be finished in Championship White, the color of Honda's Formula 1 Grand Prix winning RA272 of 1965.

Spyder 7 says the expected release date is sometime in 2020, with the price in Japan at around 35 million, which is equivalent to about $320,000 US dollars. However, the regular NSX currently sells for the yen equivalent of $217,000 in Japan, while the US price is just $157,000.

silverf16
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 00:36
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Japanese media reports a power increase to 641 horses.

Japanese media says a higher performance NSX is coming. The conclusion? Acura's flagship is about to get the Type R treatment.

According to Spyder 7, the NSX Type R will feature powertrain components derived from the NSX GTR race car, increasing output from the current 573 horsepower to an estimated 641. It's not clear whether its hybrid motors would be part of the equation.

Like the NSX GT3, much of the the body would have carbon fiber construction. The grille, front air dam for which there is already a patent for a design not found on the current NSX and side skirts would exhibit exposed carbon fiber. A large rear wing and a black canopy hearken back to the Type R NSXes of the 1990s. Of course, it would be finished in Championship White, the color of Honda's Formula 1 Grand Prix winning RA272 of 1965.

Spyder 7 says the expected release date is sometime in 2020, with the price in Japan at around 35 million, which is equivalent to about $320,000 US dollars. However, the regular NSX currently sells for the yen equivalent of $217,000 in Japan, while the US price is just $157,000.

superchg2
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 00:52
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Big waste of time, especially at these prices.
silverf16
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 01:18
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Looking at the ratios of Yens on regular vs Type R, looks like this unicorn will retail for $230k in the USA.
lexusgs
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 12:20
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silverf16 wrote:


Japanese media reports a power increase to 641 horses.

Japanese media says a higher performance NSX is coming. The conclusion? Acura's flagship is about to get the Type R treatment.

According to Spyder 7, the NSX Type R will feature powertrain components derived from the NSX GTR race car, increasing output from the current 573 horsepower to an estimated 641. It's not clear whether its hybrid motors would be part of the equation.

Like the NSX GT3, much of the the body would have carbon fiber construction. The grille, front air dam for which there is already a patent for a design not found on the current NSX and side skirts would exhibit exposed carbon fiber. A large rear wing and a black canopy hearken back to the Type R NSXes of the 1990s. Of course, it would be finished in Championship White, the color of Honda's Formula 1 Grand Prix winning RA272 of 1965.

Spyder 7 says the expected release date is sometime in 2020, with the price in Japan at around 35 million, which is equivalent to about $320,000 US dollars. However, the regular NSX currently sells for the yen equivalent of $217,000 in Japan, while the US price is just $157,000.



Its power needs to be around 700hp, it needs to be 300+lbs lighter, and it can not be priced anywhere near 300K, it should be priced at most in the 240K range.

qingcong
Profile for qingcong
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 12:34
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Well I for one am excited for an NSX type R. it's just, I think the base NSX should have had over 600hp and the type R with over 700hp at under 3500lbs. Also, I think there's still the problem of what exactly the NSX is offering us that others aren't. The old NSX was cool because it was the underdog that embarrassed the giants. This new one doesn't have that going it.
gofast182
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 12:40
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It's exciting, but, why in the bloody heck does it take until 2020 to release this? And they'd be well-served by lowering the price significantly, even if the sell price were set artificially [low].
silverf16
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 13:27
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UNDER current production process, agreed that low-mid $200K is the right price for Type R considering a loaded regular NSX can be optioned close to $200K.

This is still way more than buyers are willing to spend, given how sales have tapered. I keep thinking about how many millions (reportedly $70MM) was spent on the factory, along with tooling, supplier development, and in house development cost that Honda needs to figure out how to stop the bleeding.

Don't be surprised if the Cosworth block and heads soon become in-house manufacturing at Honda. Variants need to come to reduce cost. Anything at above $150K including your Spyder and Type R won't yield much volume. The key is to bring out a barebones cut rate NSX lightweight variant that has a chance of adding a bigger dent on volume. Put in new TTV6 and price it close to 100K.

I would even welcome a Naturally aspirated V6 with manual trans for 100K. I don't care how much horsepower it lacks if it revs beyond 8K. Call it a different model name if you must.

Remember, Honda needs the volume to pay off investment. I see all this needs to happen to make this work.

RSX
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 13:49
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silverf16 wrote:
UNDER current production process, agreed that low-mid $200K is the right price for Type R considering a loaded regular NSX can be optioned close to $200K.

This is still way more than buyers are willing to spend, given how sales have tapered. I keep thinking about how many millions (reportedly $70MM) was spent on the factory, along with tooling, supplier development, and in house development cost that Honda needs to figure out how to stop the bleeding.

Don't be surprised if the Cosworth block and heads soon become in-house manufacturing at Honda. Variants need to come to reduce cost. Anything at above $150K including your Spyder and Type R won't yield much volume. The key is to bring out a barebones cut rate NSX lightweight variant that has a chance of adding a bigger dent on volume. Put in new TTV6 and price it close to 100K.

I would even welcome a Naturally aspirated V6 with manual trans for 100K. I don't care how much horsepower it lacks if it revs beyond 8K. Call it a different model name if you must.

Remember, Honda needs the volume to pay off investment. I see all this needs to happen to make this work.



Why does a Type-R have to be more expensive? The NSX as it is can be considered the 'luxury' model with all the bells and whistles. If the Type-R sheds all those features and turns out to be a bare-bones car with more HP, they could just knock a few tens of thousands of dollars off the MSRP.
I would look for CTR to be the same scenario. Not everyone wants the added weight of a/c, navi, or even rear seats. Make it lighter by de-content-ing and make it cheaper.

qingcong
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 15:50
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silverf16 wrote:

Remember, Honda needs the volume to pay off investment. I see all this needs to happen to make this work.




They don't need to just make NSXs there. They can make non-exotic performance oriented cars there as well.

Calgarian
Profile for Calgarian
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 19:00
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If Acura can put this car on the road for $300,000.00 it will sell in limited numbers which is exactly how it will be produced.
What Acura also needs to do is make some changes to the regular NSX to keep it fresh. More power and some styling changes would be perfect.

RolledaNsx
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 20:14
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NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 20:30
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RolledaNsx wrote:
NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total


Geez, this all sounds a lot like the 3150 lb., 710 H.p., 2018 McLaren 720.

The Road and Track 2018 performance car of the year.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a13132962/2018-performance-car-of-the-year/

Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 21:29
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superchg2 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total


Geez, this all sounds a lot like the 3150 lb., 710 H.p., 2018 McLaren 720.

The Road and Track 2018 performance car of the year.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a13132962/2018-performance-car-of-the-year/


Well NSX was 2017 R&T performance car of the year so a Type R could win title again possibly.

silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2018 23:33
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RolledaNsx wrote:
NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total



So, a BASE NSX can lose 375 lbs by dumping front TMU hardware bring it to 3430 lbs. Doing this alone should drop at least $10K from MSRP.

So, with the power increase in 2019 on a base NSX, the difference between a $147K NSX-light and a $225K Type R is 100 lbs lighter body work and 80 Hp increase.

Sounds like a cash cow. Hp increase is cheap since engine has likely completed initial validation testing with a higher tune using existing engine components. So for the $78K difference ($225K-$147K), it largely going to profit, carbon fiber panels, and perhaps upsized cooling system.

I guess we'll let the market decide how the Type R will pan out.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 00:04
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silverf16 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total



So, a BASE NSX can lose 375 lbs by dumping front TMU hardware bring it to 3430 lbs. Doing this alone should drop at least $10K from MSRP.

So, with the power increase in 2019 on a base NSX, the difference between a $147K NSX-light and a $225K Type R is 100 lbs lighter body work and 80 Hp increase.

Sounds like a cash cow. Hp increase is cheap since engine has likely completed initial validation testing with a higher tune using existing engine components. So for the $78K difference ($225K-$147K), it largely going to profit, carbon fiber panels, and perhaps upsized cooling system.

I guess we'll let the market decide how the Type R will pan out.



NO SUCH THING AS A $147K NSX-Light.You can tell Users who can only buy 75K or less Autos.
Do you really think they want to sell alot of NSX Type-R? I bet that they will only build 500-1000 of them(I do not even know if they will build that many.....250 only?) and they will be sold out before production starts at crazy money over MSRP(for a Honda).
My Guess it will be around $225-250,000 USD.

silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 01:40
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Lambo and Audi have RWD variants of their sports cars towards the end of their model cycle (lambo)or when sales suck (R8). Sound familiar?

What they build and how many they build all depends on how sales are progressing and whether they are meeting their objectives. 5 units a month is not good regardless of however Honda PR spin the reasons, for which no one on prime is believing.

Honda is undergoing reviews and many options are on the table to revive business. The last thing they want to make public right now is the possibility of cheaper variants since it will dilute the model too early in the life cycle and steer customers away from core models, where margins are higher. There are discussions of type r, topless, e power, and lightweight without hybrid variants. At current sales, Honda needs help without throwing in too much investment. Lightweight variant seems like a no brainer, maybe not at 147k, but at 130k since that what base NSX were selling for a few months ago.

Type R at 500 units sounds about right. Hope they can move them faster than the LFA.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 02:10
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superchg2 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total


Geez, this all sounds a lot like the 3150 lb., 710 H.p., 2018 McLaren 720.

The Road and Track 2018 performance car of the year.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a13132962/2018-performance-car-of-the-year/



Except for that little detail that the 720 makes nearly 700 hp at the wheels.....

Yeah, it's really an 800 hp car on a good day. Not that anyone should be surprised when you see the trap speeds it pulls.

SC

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 08:13
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RolledaNsx wrote:
NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total


Could removing that stuff create a weight distribution issue?

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 11:53
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RolledaNsx wrote:
NSX Type-R weight saving options.

1)More CF to replace Al and steel parts=100lbs

2) Losing the TMU(150lbs),it's controls/wiring(75lbs),it's cooling(100lbs) and the structures(50lbs) to support it.

So a NSX Type-R can easy lose 400 pounds if they get rid of the TMU.

3300 pounds at 700 hp? 641 from the ICE!(FORD GT numbers)

I expect them to release another 50hp from the MY19 NSX ICE(500 to 550hp). 620 hp total



That sounds pretty good so far, hopefully they don't just stop there and still offer more variants like a lighter weight GT3 version for the public roads without any battery/hybrid components.

Raising the power on the current version paves the way for a more affordable version, what they really need to do though is lower the price on those option packages or make the optional stuff people want standard when they do a update. The price jumps way too fast and high from the standard price by just adding a spoiler, Alcantara, etc and that is big part of the problem, 156K is high but still a deal compared to most cars in its class but once you start adding some options you are easily into 180K or more which takes away much of its price advantage.

silverf16
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 13:51
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Approximately 100 units of NA2 NSX Type R were built. Almost all of those were for JDM market. There may a couple units in UK.

Some time ago, I was with a Honda executive who asked how many units of the 1999 Zanardi NSX (type S in Japan) should they bring to the USA. Inputs were provided but at the end, only 50 units came to USA. Number 1 going to Mr. Alex Zanardi himself.

Surprisingly, some of those 50 units sat in the dealer lots either until fall of next model year and/or into the spring of 2000.

Those Zanardi editions had the same MSRP as the Targa. They had a 50 lbs weight reduction compared to coupe and 150 lbs less compared to Targa and had BBS wheels with charcoal paint which made it look like it was always covered with brake dust. We later came to refer the Zanardi wheels as "dirty wheels"

Total US sales of NSXs during 1999 was 238 units. If 50 units of Zanardi were moved, figure 20% of sales during that year were Zanardi editions.

With that said, For this 2nd generation NSX-R, I'm thinking 100 units of Type R for USA + 100 units for Japan and another 50 for other regions for a total of 250 units, which may be the volume that Honda can move.

We'll see how the rest of the year pans out. Given that spring is here in full force and dealers are ordering base models, hopefully Honda can sell 50-70 units this month with these units priced close to base $157K. Otherwise, we will either be looking at more incentives or a push to move up the sale date for 2019 model with a power bump, revised front end and some interior changes.








lexusgs
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 16:09
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silverf16 wrote:
Approximately 100 units of NA2 NSX Type R were built. Almost all of those were for JDM market. There may a couple units in UK.

Some time ago, I was with a Honda executive who asked how many units of the 1999 Zanardi NSX (type S in Japan) should they bring to the USA. Inputs were provided but at the end, only 50 units came to USA. Number 1 going to Mr. Alex Zanardi himself.

Surprisingly, some of those 50 units sat in the dealer lots either until fall of next model year and/or into the spring of 2000.

Those Zanardi editions had the same MSRP as the Targa. They had a 50 lbs weight reduction compared to coupe and 150 lbs less compared to Targa and had BBS wheels with charcoal paint which made it look like it was always covered with brake dust. We later came to refer the Zanardi wheels as "dirty wheels"

Total US sales of NSXs during 1999 was 238 units. If 50 units of Zanardi were moved, figure 20% of sales during that year were Zanardi editions.

With that said, For this 2nd generation NSX-R, I'm thinking 100 units of Type R for USA + 100 units for Japan and another 50 for other regions for a total of 250 units, which may be the volume that Honda can move.

We'll see how the rest of the year pans out. Given that spring is here in full force and dealers are ordering base models, hopefully Honda can sell 50-70 units this month with these units priced close to base $157K. Otherwise, we will either be looking at more incentives or a push to move up the sale date for 2019 model with a power bump, revised front end and some interior changes.










That was a different time though, the 99 Zenardi edition NSX still only had 290hp and the price kept creeping higher and higher for NSX's while the just released Ferrari 360 Modena(I just saw a convertable 360 at a restaurant today) had just come out with radical new styling and 400hp. You also had a more refined 996 911 come out at that time too that gained a wider audience.

I think it is a bit of a waste just to build 250 NSX Type R's, especially this time when they are going to give it a lot more power, I think they should shoot for 1000 and lower the price so people actually may see some on the road. The NSX is doing pretty well in Great Britain, I am sure they can move a few in Europe and other markets while the US gets around 500 or so, if it beats the 488 or whatever Ferrari has in that spot it should do pretty well.


silverf16
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 17:57
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Yes, one thing that is different now is it is easier to extract more hp by cranking up boost and resizing components as needed like injectors and cooling system.

NSX-R does have a blue printed engine yielding some 30 more hp, even though it wasn't documented on the literature.

1000 units for Type R is possible but the contents and pricing must align with buyer. Ultimate hp won't jive well since it will drive up cost significantly and it's not Honda's thing.

In the last 6 months, We've seen lowering NSX pricing has a direct link to increase sales. Overprice a type r, demand will not be there and Honda may not recoup their investments.

Hondas approach in marketing the NSX has been largely taking Porsche playbook but it hasn't work out that well because NSX doesn't have enough devoted enthusiasts that are willing to cough up anything near $200k unlike the buyers for the Ford GT, Porsche, or Ferrari.

sadlerau
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-16-2018 21:23
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I said it BEFORE the NSX MkII went on sale, and it bears repeating.

The NSX will struggle for sales until it becomes either a monster in performance, standing out from the crowd, or Honda start winning F1 championships and/or they start campaigning and winning in GT3 racing series around the world. But it will take years, not months, to build that sort of cache.

What sells cars in this rarefied atmosphere is performance and/or cache. You might do well with one or the other, and both means you can set your own pricing [911 GT3/R]. It doesn't mean the entire range needs to be at that performance level, the rest of the range can bask in reflected glory, especially when it has a point of difference with most other exotics - being a hybrid, or sorts.




silverf16
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 00:00
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Just reading about how 991.2 GT3 are commanding a 20k markup across the country and those cars don't sit in the dealership for more than 1 - 2 weeks. Some dealers are commanding 30-40k markup and they take longer to move but eventually they sell.

GT3, with a "measly" 500 hp are selling for 180k between markup and options. They don't have outright speed, but they are hot commodity. Yes, the model and name plate has cache but above that, this car is universally praised for its organic driving experience that engages all the drivers senses to create a vastly superior driving experience. It doesn't have 700hp nor does it need to. This is the sports car formula that many enthusiasts WANT.

On the other hand, Gen 2 NSX is green sports car that Honda and bureaucrats say we NEED. Sports cars is a want, not a need.

Gen 1 NSX with its lightweight NA peaky power plant isn't too different than the GT3s formula, albeit GT3 is more extreme akin to a type s or s zero (jdm) variant. It is no wonder that many NSX reviews that compare Gen 1 to Gen 2 NSXs prefer the old NSX, despite having 1/2 the Hp.

So you shouldn't wonder why Gen 2 NSX isn't selling well. They got the formula right to show off its corporate green and trick technologies. But they got the Gen 2 formula wrong for the buyers.

Gen 1 NSX was a new comer in 1991 with no legacy in sports cars and lacking a snob nameplate. Yet sales were great because it was universally praised. We can't say that about Gen 2 NSX. That crown now goes to the GT3.

Want to return to glory? Fix the formula. Put all your heart and soul into it. Sweat the details. Make it beautiful. It doesn't have to be the fastest nor the most high tech. It just needs to be Honda's best sports car that will be universally loved by enthusiasta, not posers. For that, old buyers will return, new buyers will come, and the NSX legacy will live on.

BG
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 04:49
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Doesn't Honda have a tried and tested V10 lying around somewhere??
sadlerau
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Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 08:25
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BG wrote:
Doesn't Honda have a tried and tested V10 lying around somewhere??


How politically incorrect can you be! :). We could but wish.....

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 12:14
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silverf16 wrote:
Just reading about how 991.2 GT3 are commanding a 20k markup across the country and those cars don't sit in the dealership for more than 1 - 2 weeks. Some dealers are commanding 30-40k markup and they take longer to move but eventually they sell.

GT3, with a "measly" 500 hp are selling for 180k between markup and options. They don't have outright speed, but they are hot commodity. Yes, the model and name plate has cache but above that, this car is universally praised for its organic driving experience that engages all the drivers senses to create a vastly superior driving experience. It doesn't have 700hp nor does it need to. This is the sports car formula that many enthusiasts WANT.

On the other hand, Gen 2 NSX is green sports car that Honda and bureaucrats say we NEED. Sports cars is a want, not a need.

Gen 1 NSX with its lightweight NA peaky power plant isn't too different than the GT3s formula, albeit GT3 is more extreme akin to a type s or s zero (jdm) variant. It is no wonder that many NSX reviews that compare Gen 1 to Gen 2 NSXs prefer the old NSX, despite having 1/2 the Hp.

So you shouldn't wonder why Gen 2 NSX isn't selling well. They got the formula right to show off its corporate green and trick technologies. But they got the Gen 2 formula wrong for the buyers.

Gen 1 NSX was a new comer in 1991 with no legacy in sports cars and lacking a snob nameplate. Yet sales were great because it was universally praised. We can't say that about Gen 2 NSX. That crown now goes to the GT3.

Want to return to glory? Fix the formula. Put all your heart and soul into it. Sweat the details. Make it beautiful. It doesn't have to be the fastest nor the most high tech. It just needs to be Honda's best sports car that will be universally loved by enthusiasta, not posers. For that, old buyers will return, new buyers will come, and the NSX legacy will live on.



Porsche stuck with the 911, improving it, and other sports cars and developing a legacy and it has paid off for them.

Unfortunately Honda is not going to do a NA 500hp 6 cylinder, they won't even do a 400hp NA engine. The GT3 has a very unique driving experience with its 500hp normally aspirated flat six and being light weight and people will pay for that and there are always 600hp-700hp Porsche 911's if buyers want those.

I kept saying a hybrid or definitely a electric was not the way to go for the NSX or any sports car but Ito said it had to be "green" while buyers were not asking for it. What happened was they found out a J series with a hybrid does not work out well, is slow and compromised, and they had to then make a big expensive change because they went cheap first and thought the hybrid would work its magic with a mediocre engine when all it did was slow it down and add a bunch of weight. Thank god they at least put a good V6 in it that can overcome much of the hybrid components weight.

I think they got the styling right though, the NSX is beautiful especially when you see it in person, I think it looks better then a 488, R8, or McLaren. The performance is mostly there but is more complicated then it needed to be with little if any benefit but they seem to have gotten the chassis right and many other things they just need more version, a lower price, update the interior, etc.

All they needed to do was a high revving 8 or 10 cylinder or twin turbo versions of those engines with 600+hp, about 20 or 30K less expensive with more unique interior and it would have been pretty perfect, they did not need to make it so complicated and heavy although there may be some potential with the hybrid if they give it more power, more aggressive tuning, find other ways to lower weight.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 12:18
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BG wrote:
Doesn't Honda have a tried and tested V10 lying around somewhere??

Yep, total waste of time and money not to put it into production.

That V10 would have been a perfect engine for the NSX and also a high end GT coupe. They really should dust that engine off and offer it in a special version of the NSX. I doubt that V10 engine costs 75K just to make.

RSX
Profile for RSX
Re: 2020 NSX Type-R    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-17-2018 13:52
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lexusgs wrote:
BG wrote:
Doesn't Honda have a tried and tested V10 lying around somewhere??

Yep, total waste of time and money not to put it into production.

That V10 would have been a perfect engine for the NSX and also a high end GT coupe. They really should dust that engine off and offer it in a special version of the NSX. I doubt that V10 engine costs 75K just to make.



It's not always about the "cost to make". With low production runs the tooling amortization can really affect the cost of the parts/assemblies. Often, these tools are only designed for low quantities too, so it's not like if you're suddenly surprised by increased sales numbers that the cost can be absorbed. In that case new tools would have to be made or old ones repaired when the numbers increase.


 
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