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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Tesla charging options

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TurkMan71
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Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-07-2018 22:22
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Ok Iím just throwing this out there to see if anyone has ideas:

My mom owns and rents out a condo (yearly lease only) in Sarasota. Our new tenant bought a Tesla in December before she signed our lease and moved in to the unit in January. We did not know she needed to be near a plug/charger and she assumed it wouldnít be a problem switching assigned parking spots with someone who was closer to a plug not to mention the cost it would incur for the building/all the owners.

On top of it all, our property manager is an ass, doesnít know the meaning of compromise, and probably wants us out as owners so he can get kickbacks somehow on the sale (the condo board is his domain and reigns supreme).

Sooooo, how can I get this tenantís dumb Tesla charged without rocking the boat? Is there a way of getting some government funding? Will Tesla help? Should she call the local news and shame the powers that be to acquiesce? Write the condo board a letter (the issue has been raised, but they arenít in a hurry to join the new world)? The condo is on an island and the closest charging station is on the mainland.

Any solid advice would be appreciated!

HDNBenjamin
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Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-07-2018 22:27
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I am short Tesla so I will refrain from helping. lol just kidding. but you should make a post on the Tesla forum, I doubt there are many Tesla owners if any at all on TOV. GL.
superchg2
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Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-07-2018 22:58
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Tesla's are a sore subject around here.
TurkMan71
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Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-07-2018 22:58
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Iíll give it a try thanks!
JeffX
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Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2018 00:20
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HDNBenjamin wrote:
I am short Tesla so I will refrain from helping. lol just kidding. but you should make a post on the Tesla forum, I doubt there are many Tesla owners if any at all on TOV. GL.


this question actually is relevant to any BEV/PHEV owner, Tesla or otherwise. So I think it's fair game here. Honda has the Clarity PHEV, Clarity BEV and a population of Fit EVs out there.

Regardless of where the question is posed, I'm not sure anybody will have a definitive answer. It's going to cost something. And how much it will ultimately cost will depend upon a number of factors. Ideally you can get some sort of locally subsidized assistance to reduce the cost substantially. Is Sarasota pushing a green agenda?

Then you have to think about metering. Can you somehow tap this charge port into the property's service so the power is metered appropriately? The condo association probably won't want to pay for electricity to charge the vehicles of random vehicles without some sort of metering or monthly flat fee.



blackstripe77
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Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2018 00:29
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What happens here is that the homeowners association/equivalent needs to agree on a feasible system. For where I am, parking spaces are owned individually, and individuals are allowed to install charging stations at their own cost. They will need to pay for the cost of the wiring from the power supply, the cost of installing the meter and charger, pay their own monthly electricity bills, and the insurance in case any of that catches fire, out of their own pocket. Also, there is a limit to the total number of chargers that can be installed due to the high power draw, this is on a first come first served basis. The other option is just driving to a supercharger once a week. It's unreasonable to expect the property or other owners to foot the bill for the Tesla owner. The owner of the Tesla should probably have considered more carefully their charging options before purchasing a Tesla or moving to a place where charging is not possible or convenient.


THX17201
Profile for THX17201
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2018 08:21
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blackstripe77 wrote:
What happens here is that the homeowners association/equivalent needs to agree on a feasible system. For where I am, parking spaces are owned individually, and individuals are allowed to install charging stations at their own cost. They will need to pay for the cost of the wiring from the power supply, the cost of installing the meter and charger, pay their own monthly electricity bills, and the insurance in case any of that catches fire, out of their own pocket. Also, there is a limit to the total number of chargers that can be installed due to the high power draw, this is on a first come first served basis. The other option is just driving to a supercharger once a week. It's unreasonable to expect the property or other owners to foot the bill for the Tesla owner. The owner of the Tesla should probably have considered more carefully their charging options before purchasing a Tesla or moving to a place where charging is not possible or convenient.




This!

TurkMan71
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Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2018 18:06
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I donít have a horse, electric or otherwise, in the Tesla debate. I just have a thoughtless tenant with an almost teenage-like willfulness to be self-centered.

While I donít particularly want to help her with these first world problems, she pays good coin and my mom depends on this for income. She has threatened to break the lease and I just donít want to deal, even though we have an air tight lease contract.

I suggested she look into local agencies for subsidies and to charge at work (an option but not convenient). I really think she was under the assumption she could just plug anywhere at anytime, nevermind getting metered and paying her fair share...

Thanks everybody,

Kids these days...



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2018 18:32
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TurkMan71 wrote:
I donít have a horse, electric or otherwise, in the Tesla debate. I just have a thoughtless tenant with an almost teenage-like willfulness to be self-centered.

While I donít particularly want to help her with these first world problems, she pays good coin and my mom depends on this for income. She has threatened to break the lease and I just donít want to deal, even though we have an air tight lease contract.

I suggested she look into local agencies for subsidies and to charge at work (an option but not convenient). I really think she was under the assumption she could just plug anywhere at anytime, nevermind getting metered and paying her fair share...

Thanks everybody,

Kids these days...





Hate to say this... get a lawyer to write her a letter to remind her of what her contractual obligations are.

She should have thought about this before she started looking for a place to live and charge her car.

In this case I agree with the manager and the Board. Why should they pay for charging the car?

You could ask the Board to install metered plug in stalls in a communal place, like we have at work. Alternatively, your tenant could charge at Ikea or work, huh?

Teslas are a PITA for renters and people who don't live in houses with a garage.

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2018 18:36
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So heres the deal. In the US there might be a lot of homeowners with their own estate and possiblity to charge. In Europe though, things are very different. And you won't get the go for digging up streets and surrounding in tightly popluated european cities with historic sights.

That's the very thing those Electro-Nazis, who think they are the elite of drivers, refuse to understand. The only thing they keep doing is to demand someone provide them with a plug for their 70,000 EUR luxury toy, regardless if the power lines around the blocks are even fit out for multiple 11kW users at nighttime.

So I'll say it again, f*ck them and f*ck their megalomaniac sect Guru Elon, who brainwashed them into such wussies.

blackstripe77
Profile for blackstripe77
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 00:50
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TurkMan71 wrote:
I donít have a horse, electric or otherwise, in the Tesla debate. I just have a thoughtless tenant with an almost teenage-like willfulness to be self-centered.

While I donít particularly want to help her with these first world problems, she pays good coin and my mom depends on this for income. She has threatened to break the lease and I just donít want to deal, even though we have an air tight lease contract.

I suggested she look into local agencies for subsidies and to charge at work (an option but not convenient). I really think she was under the assumption she could just plug anywhere at anytime, nevermind getting metered and paying her fair share...

Thanks everybody,

Kids these days...





The tenant sounds like a childish pain in the ass. Unless your lease specified that you had to be able to provide free electricity for her Tesla, she will need to pay you rent for the period of the lease agreement, even if she does move. I don't know how difficult it is to find new tenants in your area, but sounds like she could be trouble in many other ways than just this one.

From what I've heard, depending on where the electrical supply for the apartment comes in relative to your parking spot, the one-off cost of installing the wires and the continued costs of insuring the cable and charger are not insignificant. It probably hasn't happened yet, but if a high-voltage cable catches fire in a car park I imagine it could cause quite a bit of carnage.


JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 01:43
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TurkMan71 wrote:
I donít have a horse, electric or otherwise, in the Tesla debate. I just have a thoughtless tenant with an almost teenage-like willfulness to be self-centered.

While I donít particularly want to help her with these first world problems, she pays good coin and my mom depends on this for income. She has threatened to break the lease and I just donít want to deal, even though we have an air tight lease contract.

I suggested she look into local agencies for subsidies and to charge at work (an option but not convenient). I really think she was under the assumption she could just plug anywhere at anytime, nevermind getting metered and paying her fair share...

Thanks everybody,

Kids these days...





So it seems it's really the tenant's problem. Sure, she wanted that Tesla
really badly, but she doesn't have the basic understanding of what it means to own an EV.

I mean, was this condo advertised as "EV-friendly" with 50-amp 240V service at each parking spot? I guess running a long extension cord to the car for maybe 1kW (~3 miles range per hour) doesn't do it?

BEVs are not for people who don't have reliable access to really good electrical service.

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 01:56
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TurkMan71 wrote:
I donít have a horse, electric or otherwise, in the Tesla debate. I just have a thoughtless tenant with an almost teenage-like willfulness to be self-centered.

While I donít particularly want to help her with these first world problems, she pays good coin and my mom depends on this for income. She has threatened to break the lease and I just donít want to deal, even though we have an air tight lease contract.

I suggested she look into local agencies for subsidies and to charge at work (an option but not convenient). I really think she was under the assumption she could just plug anywhere at anytime, nevermind getting metered and paying her fair share...

Thanks everybody,

Kids these days...




Can she turn in her EV vs an Hybrid car?

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 04:27
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TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 06:30
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blackstripe77 wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
I donít have a horse, electric or otherwise, in the Tesla debate. I just have a thoughtless tenant with an almost teenage-like willfulness to be self-centered.

While I donít particularly want to help her with these first world problems, she pays good coin and my mom depends on this for income. She has threatened to break the lease and I just donít want to deal, even though we have an air tight lease contract.

I suggested she look into local agencies for subsidies and to charge at work (an option but not convenient). I really think she was under the assumption she could just plug anywhere at anytime, nevermind getting metered and paying her fair share...

Thanks everybody,

Kids these days...





The tenant sounds like a childish pain in the ass




Yes.

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 06:53
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JeffX wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
I donít have a horse, electric or otherwise, in the Tesla debate. I just have a thoughtless tenant with an almost teenage-like willfulness to be self-centered.

While I donít particularly want to help her with these first world problems, she pays good coin and my mom depends on this for income. She has threatened to break the lease and I just donít want to deal, even though we have an air tight lease contract.

I suggested she look into local agencies for subsidies and to charge at work (an option but not convenient). I really think she was under the assumption she could just plug anywhere at anytime, nevermind getting metered and paying her fair share...

Thanks everybody,

Kids these days...





So it seems it's really the tenant's problem. Sure, she wanted that Tesla
really badly, but she doesn't have the basic understanding of what it means to own an EV.

I mean, was this condo advertised as "EV-friendly" with 50-amp 240V service at each parking spot? I guess running a long extension cord to the car for maybe 1kW (~3 miles range per hour) doesn't do it?

BEVs are not for people who don't have reliable access to really good electrical service.



Our property manger said she canít run an extension cord on the ground because it could be, among other things, a tripping hazard. So, without asking she hired someone to run a cord under the roof of the shared car port and let the cord drop down and hang next to her assigned spot. What bothers me is she did this without asking, after she knew she couldnít get free electricity without somehow paying. She was asked to take it down and thatís when she called again and started with the waterworks.

Now the condo association and property manager are known for making renters feel unwelcomed - which I hate. But she was definitely in the wrong - frustrated and desperate, yes - but still wrong.

Our lease contract has nothing about charging for electric cars...so, yes it really is on her. Her last ďluxuryĒ condo had a charger so I guess she expected every place does.

She mentioned she was charging at a Barnes and Noble on the mainland, right before the bridge to the island but she said it was a fast supercharger (?) and that wasnít an option for continued use...donít know anything about that.

Sheís asking all the owners who are close to the outlet if she can switch parking spots and she would ďpay $40 a monthĒ for the electricity. Somehow I feel thatís not an accurate amount either for Florida, the land of eternal a/c running...

Sheís saying the property manager is being unreasonable and he could help by just sending out an email to all the owners and asking if someone would switch with her...

Ugh, jeez give me strength people...

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 07:06
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Can you charge a Tesla or any EV with a garden variety 50 or 100-foot electrical extension cord? The charger tech in the cars must recognize the current supply and not set the cord on fire, right? Say, 110V/10A?

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 07:56
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Grace141 wrote:
Can you charge a Tesla or any EV with a garden variety 50 or 100-foot electrical extension cord? The charger tech in the cars must recognize the current supply and not set the cord on fire, right? Say, 110V/10A?



This is what the Tesla site says:

The Mobile Connector automatically detects the attached adapter and communicates the correct charging current level to the vehicle to ensure an easy and seamless charging experience. The adapter should always plug directly into the outlet, do not use third party converter plugs, extension cords or other similar accessories.


A standard 110V outlet is 15A max. Cheap extension cords (16 gauge) are typically only rated up to 10A. The more expensive ones (14 gauge) can handle up to 13A. So it sounds like if you ignore the manufacturer's recommendation you could risk overdriving the extension cord, which in this case sounds like a major fire risk if it's strung up along a parking structure. Jeez, what a mess.



Last edited by JeffX on 05-09-2018 07:57
GoFaster
Profile for GoFaster
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 11:18
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My Clarity PHEV also says plug directly into the wall, no extension cords.

Would EvGo or ChargePoint be interested in installing a charger in guest parking? They are the two big providers. What they can do is take care of the electricity cost plus add a fee while a car is parked and connected, so people don't leave their car in the spot long after it is done charging. May not cost the Association anything, especially if Ms. Tesla is there to start paying to use it.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 11:37
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GoFaster wrote:
My Clarity PHEV also says plug directly into the wall, no extension cords.

Would EvGo or ChargePoint be interested in installing a charger in guest parking? They are the two big providers. What they can do is take care of the electricity cost plus add a fee while a car is parked and connected, so people don't leave their car in the spot long after it is done charging. May not cost the Association anything, especially if Ms. Tesla is there to start paying to use it.



They just need to get some of these doohickeys and then they can have virtually unlimited charging.




TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 15:40
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JeffX wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
Can you charge a Tesla or any EV with a garden variety 50 or 100-foot electrical extension cord? The charger tech in the cars must recognize the current supply and not set the cord on fire, right? Say, 110V/10A?



This is what the Tesla site says:

The Mobile Connector automatically detects the attached adapter and communicates the correct charging current level to the vehicle to ensure an easy and seamless charging experience. The adapter should always plug directly into the outlet, do not use third party converter plugs, extension cords or other similar accessories.


A standard 110V outlet is 15A max. Cheap extension cords (16 gauge) are typically only rated up to 10A. The more expensive ones (14 gauge) can handle up to 13A. So it sounds like if you ignore the manufacturer's recommendation you could risk overdriving the extension cord, which in this case sounds like a major fire risk if it's strung up along a parking structure. Jeez, what a mess.



The typical Romex they put in houses is good for 20A, so you usually put a 15A breaker behind it. Electricians like that type of wiring because the Romex is thin and flexible and a single electrician can wire a whole house.

But, if you're Tony and you are rebuilding your humble Chateau (*) then you insist (and pay) for the 30A Romex, install 25A breakers (**) and 30A hospital grade outlets. It takes two electricians to wire the house because the Romex is pretty stiff. The good think about this Romex is that you can also drive 240V if needs be.

So, yeah, you can drive 30A over a 120V line, but it won't be "standard".

Extension cord wise... you could always upgrade the outlets to higher ratings and build your own "extension cord" from very heavy duty outlets, electrical boxes and raw Romex. But, still, unless you have a 25A line coming in, you are going to be pushing to get 15A out of that 120V circuit.

Indeed, if it were me and using a "legacy" circuit, I'd put a 10A breaker and be safe. It's not good driving 100% of the rating in a circuit you didn't install (or have it installed for you). You have no clue what's in the wall.

BTW, this is part of the reason I didn't go for the PHEV. I got spare Romex lines in the attic ( hey, I'm an engineer ) but I didn't feel like using one of them to drop another 240V into the garage.

Charging an EV off an existing 120V line is not a good idea, IMHO.

(*) We're talking small house at Calimexistan prices.
(**) Could have gone higher but figure it was safer to underrate the breaker.



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 15:43
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Nick GravesX wrote:



Yeah, put that on the roof like a Ghostbuster's Mobile.

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: Tesla charging options    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2018 19:40
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Guess what...she did it. She pleaded and nagged enough and she found someone to switch with that is next to an outlet!

They are still figuring out what she will pay the association/month, but she did it. Phew!

Thanks everyone for all the tips and support! I passed on possible long term solutions you guys suggested to a board member and the property manger when and if they look to install a charger in a public space...


 
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