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TOV Forums > Today's Reading Links > > Re: No more Ford Cars

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Fitdad
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No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 20:11
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Except the Mustang.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/04/25/ford-quarterly-profit-cuts-lineup/549463002/

The full-size Taurus, midsize Fusion, small Fiesta and wagon-like C-Max will no longer be sold in North America, Ford officials said. Exactly when these models will stop being sold in the market hasn't been announced.


And the only Focus will be the Focus Active SUV.

Wow.

Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 20:29
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I guess all of their sedan design sucks like the Accord so they don't sell :P

The law of large numbers strikes again. Just like me having difficulties buying a minivan in my country where all died except for Toyota, everything has become SUV or SUV like. This is worse than engine downsizing.

garoto
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 21:12
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The roads are going to look slightly better now.


CanTeX
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 22:19
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After the devastation Hackett laid on Steelcase (halved the company, destroyed most of their world class manufacturing, and started importing most everything from Mexico and China), Ford’s death spiral has begun. The Japanese and Korean manufacturers as well as GM are rejoicing tonight.

This is all being done to boost stock price, right? Well, any gains will be short-term, as Steelcase found out - their stock is still in the dumpster.

Oh and just wait until oil prices _really_ go up.

CanTeX
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 22:23
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CanTeX wrote:
After the devastation Hackett laid on Steelcase (halved the company, destroyed most of their world class manufacturing, and started importing most everything from Mexico and China), Ford’s death spiral has begun. The Japanese and Korean manufacturers as well as GM are rejoicing tonight.

This is all being done to boost stock price, right? Well, any gains will be short-term, as Steelcase found out - their stock is still in the dumpster.

Oh and just wait until oil prices _really_ go up.


$6.01 per U.S. gallon on the west coast of Canada, including

CanTeX
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 22:27
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CanTeX wrote:
CanTeX wrote:
After the devastation Hackett laid on Steelcase (halved the company, destroyed most of their world class manufacturing, and started importing most everything from Mexico and China), Ford’s death spiral has begun. The Japanese and Korean manufacturers as well as GM are rejoicing tonight.

This is all being done to boost stock price, right? Well, any gains will be short-term, as Steelcase found out - their stock is still in the dumpster.

Oh and just wait until oil prices _really_ go up.


$6.01 per U.S. gallon on the west coast of Canada, including


...including the much-beloved carbon tax.

qingcong
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 23:05
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I sure as hell hope this is not the industry trend.
NorCalSales
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 23:10
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Just imagine the number of cars Toyota can sell to rental fleets now...

Gonna be 6 digits big annually in the US alone

TonyEX
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2018 23:28
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NorCalSales wrote:
Just imagine the number of cars Toyota can sell to rental fleets now...

Gonna be 6 digits big annually in the US alone




Nissan.. Nissan.. NISSAN... your American Rental Car.

silverf16
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 00:38
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This is what happens when a furniture executive runs a car company.
rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 02:21
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The heck are they doing over there at Ford? Seriously....
I think this is taking it a bit too far, but whatever. Good luck to them.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 04:26
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That's sort of shocking, but unsurprising at the same time.

Then again, the whole point of the Tin Lizzie was that it was as much of an SUV as a car, at a time then US roads were appalling and the drivers inept. Oh, hang on...

Things always seem to go in circles.

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 06:16
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garoto628 wrote:
The roads are going to look slightly better now.




I actually think the Ford sedans look quite good. I see Fusions everywhere. A friend of mine has a Fusion. I liked sitting in it better than my Accord. I've had a Mustang and a Taurus as rentals. Both were excellent road trip cars. 2000+ miles round trip.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 06:54
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I like the Fusion series quite a bit too with the Titanium version being very nice. This move by Ford seems like more typical business school graduate 3-year planning combined with an American lack of faith in trying innovative ideas. It would be less of an issue for me if I found the Ford trucks sold here in the US interesting and class leading but they're actually pretty dismal. I was a little surprised Ford replaced the old E-vans with the Transit series and not just some box body on F-series frame.

What a shame. I noticed one of the Mercury Monterey minivans in traffic just a few days ago. Ford has wasted a lot of good opportunities here in the US.

Vtec_rally
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 08:29
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This seems like such a short sighted move. I agree that they had to get rid of Fields as was asleep @ the wheel and missed the whole Cuv/Suv craze. But I always thought the new leadership choice was a curious decision,. Isn't it better to have someone leading a car co. who has some engineering background or has been involved in a similar industry ? I understand getting rid of the Fiesta and Taurus but the Fusion is a somewhat decent car with lots of features and a good interior as well as exterior. I was less impressed with its driving dynamics when I had one as a rental, it was way too floaty over uneven pavement and seemed heavy as hell. I thought Ford had tonnes of money in the bank after selling off all their European brands ? Even Dodge & Chrysler have more sedans then Ford now, even though their ancient. I have to respect the Japanese, Koreans along with Germans for sticking it out in the mid-size segment and actually investing money to make their products better. PS I heard the next Chrysler 300 & Dodge Charger might be moving to the same platform as the Alfa Giulia, that could be very intetesting. I'll take a car any day over a cuv/suv, I like to drive. Though I understand the benefit of such vehicles to people with families or for those that go off roading a lot.


CanTeX
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 08:31
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Fitdad wrote:
Except the Mustang.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2018/04/25/ford-quarterly-profit-cuts-lineup/549463002/

The full-size Taurus, midsize Fusion, small Fiesta and wagon-like C-Max will no longer be sold in North America, Ford officials said. Exactly when these models will stop being sold in the market hasn't been announced.


And the only Focus will be the Focus Active SUV.

Wow.


Anybody remember the Ford Probe? A “racy little number”, which turned out to be an anemic plain front-drive coupe. Ford was hoping to turn this into the next Mustang. The public noticed. Bad, Ford, Bad. OK, modern times: How about the Mustang on Focus bones? (Hmmm... I can see Camaro and Challenger owners lined up at their Ford dealerships now... Sorry, need more coffee.)

silverf16
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 08:55
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Grace141 wrote:
.....This move by Ford seems like more typical business school graduate 3-year planning combined with an American lack of faith in trying innovative ideas......


I suspect the furniture CEO at Ford doesn't understand the auto industry and is doing exactly what Grace said above.

It is a retreating move and I'm sure many at Ford are discouraged. This too should pass. One day a car guy will run the organization again and bring passion and vision and inspire the team at Ford to bring back ingenuity. Greatness will rise again.


NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 09:10
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Apparently the ZDX and CrossTour were vehicles way before their time...
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 09:16
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Ha!

Even more so, the original HR-V!

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 09:35
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qingcong wrote:
I sure as hell hope this is not the industry trend.


The only surprise to me is that this didn't happen with Ford sooner. They've left their sedans to wither too long, and they actually lose or make minimal money with each one. If you're simply not good enough to make good profits off small cars (like Honda and Toyota), it's probably better to get out of the game.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 09:52
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I can't comment on what Hackett is doing as a CEO since he's only been at the helm for a short time, however the previous Ford CEO who steered the company clear of being bankrupt was a former Airline executive. An engineer for sure, but not someone in the automotive industry, and he turned the company around.

What I will say is that currently, GM is kicking Ford's ass, they aren't making money on small cars, so I am completely unsurprised that they would follow FCA's path into doing this.

I also am not convinced it's shortsighted. First, those cars exist, just in markets where they actually sell for good money. The US is just a dismal market- the smallest cars like the Fiesta have always been poor sellers and money losers. And in an age where a Ford Escape is getting fairly good fuel economy and will only get better with subsequent generations, I can't see people going back even if fuel prices rise dramatically. And a global footprint means that if something were to ever happen, Ford should be able those vehicles back to North America.

The point is that Ford as a company is reacting too slowly to market trends, so they're actually in a catchup position right now even if their technology portfolio is pretty solid. They need to capitalize on the SUV trend, but they also need to be flexible enough to respond and put out models appropriate for whatever happens in the future (nevermind their need to drastically improve quality).

It IS truly weird because Ford's work culture is like that of a mix of Honda of Japan's "engineering freedom" but with Big 3 style multi-level management and 'legacy' clunkiness... which used to make them get products people wanted to buy out to market relatively fast. The management stagnated under Fields and weirdly enough, GM under Barra has leaned itself and fired enough incompetent people to really start kicking Ford's ass in the product and product quality department.

Grace141 wrote:
It would be less of an issue for me if I found the Ford trucks sold here in the US interesting and class leading but they're actually pretty dismal. I was a little surprised Ford replaced the old E-vans with the Transit series and not just some box body on F-series frame.



I don't completely understand this quote, since Ford dominates the commercial market, but Ford still sells the F-450, 550, 650, and the F53/59... the reason they can sell these as 'cab only' without the box is because most commercial customers get those bodies custom made for their application.



longhorn
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 09:58
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qingcong wrote:
I sure as hell hope this is not the industry trend.


That's the interesting thing, FCA showed the way, Ford followed, who's next to leave the midsize sedan market? H/K? GM? Niche players such as Mazda?

HondaDad
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 10:00
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And the Accord is going to fall even further behind the Camry in sales as the Camry becomes the fleet/rental car of choice.
Fitdad
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 10:03
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CarPhreakD wrote:
qingcong wrote:
I sure as hell hope this is not the industry trend.


The only surprise to me is that this didn't happen with Ford sooner. They've left their sedans to wither too long, and they actually lose or make minimal money with each one. If you're simply not good enough to make good profits off small cars (like Honda and Toyota), it's probably better to get out of the game.



It just seems crazy to me that Ford is going to just going to stop making and selling...what...400,000 cars a year? I’m too lazy to look it up but that kind of top line sales potential...plus all the lost dealer service and sales revenue - this is crazy.

And it seems like they could have taken a number of steps before this one...slash number of trims/engines (aren’t Fords notorious for having crazy amounts of configurations?), put everything on one platform, just cut a few cars. I know at some at some point the economy of scale starts to matter but my goodness this is a drastic move.

Yeah I’m looking at it - a Ford Fiesta Sedan SE has three wheel options, two different seat styles, two different interior colors, 4 different center stacks/audio units, two different appearance packages...

You wanna save money? Cut all that crap out. It’s a similar story with the Fusion BtW - a bunch of “301a appearance” and audio options...just get rid of that and have zero options. Honda has been doing this for years - why doesn’t Ford copy them?

CarPhreakD
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 10:19
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You can sell a million vehicles a year, but if the margins are minimal, it's still a bad investment. They aren't just straight up deleting volume- these cars are going to be replaced, but they will be replaced by other vehicle types.

Cutting the crap is one thing, but retooling those factories and using the capacity for another more profitable car from the get go is another strategy altogether.

To be clear- beyond the ST and RS models (which I'm also not entirely a fan of), I really don't think a lot of people are going to mourn the loss of the baser model Fiestas, Focii or even the Fusions. You can get better alternatives from the remaining players. It's unfortunate that Mark Fields and Ford put themselves in this position where they screwed the pooch on making updates that can truly put these vehicles up against their Japanese counterparts... but now they're kind of forced into this position.

My interest would be waiting to see what GM decides to do. They're finally making very good sedans (right when it's too late... typical GM), but with Ford going out of the game I wonder if they're willing to stick around.

longhorn
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 10:20
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I think too many are fixated on what is getting cut and not whats replacing them. Ford has stated there will be new products too, so I expect something especially in the Fusion size.

Buying patterns change, if you told me years ago that Police Departments would gravitate to SUVs/CUVs from years of buying Crown Vics, I would not believe it. And you better believe this morning there are discussions going on at Toyota,Nissan and Honda about this development.

Jovian8
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 10:25
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Crossovers have gone too far. lol


qingcong
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 10:48
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Is this all because out of shape Americans can't get in and out of sedans?
NealX
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Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 10:59
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qingcong wrote:
Is this all because out of shape Americans can't get in and out of sedans?

Is there a corresponding stereotype for those where you live?

Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: No more Ford Cars    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2018 11:03
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CarPhreakD wrote:
You can sell a million vehicles a year, but if the margins are minimal, it's still a bad investment. They aren't just straight up deleting volume- these cars are going to be replaced, but they will be replaced by other vehicle types.

Cutting the crap is one thing, but retooling those factories and using the capacity for another more profitable car from the get go is another strategy altogether.

To be clear- beyond the ST and RS models (which I'm also not entirely a fan of), I really don't think a lot of people are going to mourn the loss of the baser model Fiestas, Focii or even the Fusions. You can get better alternatives from the remaining players. It's unfortunate that Mark Fields and Ford put themselves in this position where they screwed the pooch on making updates that can truly put these vehicles up against their Japanese counterparts... but now they're kind of forced into this position.

My interest would be waiting to see what GM decides to do. They're finally making very good sedans (right when it's too late... typical GM), but with Ford going out of the game I wonder if they're willing to stick around.



I guess I just don't see how they can guarantee that whatever they replace these vehicles with will be a "better" investment - especially when they clearly haven't optimized their profit margins on their current product lines. Why wouldn't they tackle those issues first?

Look - I'm not an expert on how the auto industry works - this just seems like a very shortsighted decision that will see Ford having to start all over again in these segments that are leaving. Is there really no way for Ford to sell 150,000 Fusions and 100,000 Focus (Which are both well-off from their sales heights) in the US and make decent profit? They really can't build a business case for that?

How many SUVs can you have? Ford already has six: Ecosport, Escape, Edge, Flex, Explorer and Expedition. They are seemingly adding the Bronco for seven. The Focus Active will essentially be an eighth SUV. They are also adding the Ranger. How much volume can you push with just SUVs?


 
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