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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix

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gofast182
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F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 07:21
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Formula 1 heads to the Shanghai International Circuit this weekend for the Chinese Grand Prix. The circuit is known for its long back straight, the longest of any F1 circuit, and turns with changing radii such as Turn 1 which starts wide and becomes sharp as the track turns 270 degrees. This is also the first race where Pirelli will skip a softness increment in tires offered: medium, soft, and then jumping to the ultrasoft.

Toro Rosso Honda enter the weekend buoyed by Pierre Gasly’s spectacular 4th place drive in Bahrain where the young Frenchman made keeping fast cars at bay look easy. This weekend we can expect that both cars will be running the updated aero package Gasly had in Bahrain. While one result does not make a trend, we must now consider that Toro Rosso Honda can have at least one car in Q3 and fighting for good points.

Elsewhere on the grid, Mercedes is feeling the pressure from Ferrari as the Maranello-based squad has bested the Silver Arrows in the first two grands prix, arguably with a slower car. We can expect Mercedes to be on point this weekend. Red Bull will be looking for a good result after a double DNF left them reeling in Bahrain. They need reliability and for VER to control himself. Haas has proven that their pace is genuine with MAG driving a solid points-paying race in Bahrain. We can expect both Haas cars in Q3 and a double points finish. Renault continues to look solid and should be set for a double points finish as well. McLaren will be battling Renault fiercely for those last points-paying positions as their season has not started how they planned. Force India’s new spot in the pecking order should be right on McLaren’s tail. Kudos to Sauber with ERI driving a stellar race in Bahrain. We can expect them to be toward the bottom but no longer last. Williams has hit rock bottom and that appears set to continue in China.

For more including TV times, stats, and video, click over to TOV-M!
http://motorsports.vtec.net/blog/194/f1-2018-chinese-grand-prix/

sennaFAN
Profile for sennaFAN
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 08:03
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It really is so sad to see Williams where they are. Such a great team and heritage. I know that counts for nothing this day and age, bu they are a proper team and I really hope they find what is wrong with that chassis very soon.
This is an interesting race for STR-H. I am a bit nervous how they will perform as my expectations have been raised !!
Let's hope for the races sake that the top three teams have a clean reliable race so we can get a genuine picture of were they are.
My ( nearly always wrong ) prediction based on 100% reliability
1. Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Verstappen
4. Bottas
5. Ricciardo
6. Kimi ( as long as he doesn't run anyone else over .. )
7. Gasley lol !! Cmon

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 08:28
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It is sad re: Williams. It has been apparent for 3 years now that they have worsening correlation issues and until they do a significant reorg with their design staff and the tools they use, I'm afraid this isn't a problem leadership alone (Lowe) will be able to fix.
With that said, I am happier for Haas to be occupying that space than I am sad for Williams not being there.

RSX
Profile for RSX
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 08:32
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Has anyone seen the new watches Toro Rosso has released with Casio? Are these any good?

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 08:34
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I don't see China suiting the TR as much as Bahrain did, but we'll see. I'd like to see the team fight for points. Hartley needs a bit of luck on his side.
sennaFAN
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Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 08:50
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If they post respectable speed traps or top speeds at the end of that HUGE straight then it bodes well for the rest of the season
gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 09:16
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sennaFAN wrote:
If they post respectable speed traps or top speeds at the end of that HUGE straight then it bodes well for the rest of the season

I was just going to say that. This straight is unusually long and we don't know what setup they need to run for the rest of the circuit but from testing and the first two GPs it looks as if the Honda PU is powerful enough to generate competitive trap speeds.
A week or two ago there was a fascinating post on F1T that mentioned Honda's latest technique of very rapidly switching MGU-H output between generation (ES) and deployment (MGU-K); it's all in software and has gone a long way to helping sustain higher output.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 11:26
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RSX wrote:
Has anyone seen the new watches Toro Rosso has released with Casio? Are these any good?

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso



The edifice line has been pretty decent for relatively inexpensive watches, and the mid level models that keep world time is actually very useful if you travel a lot. Bluetooth models are kind of gimmicky. The biggest downfall are that the watches are still just mineral glass, so they can and do scratch.

They can be aesthetically hit or miss so you may want to see them in person before buying.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 12:56
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gofast182 wrote:
sennaFAN wrote:
If they post respectable speed traps or top speeds at the end of that HUGE straight then it bodes well for the rest of the season

I was just going to say that. This straight is unusually long and we don't know what setup they need to run for the rest of the circuit but from testing and the first two GPs it looks as if the Honda PU is powerful enough to generate competitive trap speeds.
A week or two ago there was a fascinating post on F1T that mentioned Honda's latest technique of very rapidly switching MGU-H output between generation (ES) and deployment (MGU-K); it's all in software and has gone a long way to helping sustain higher output.


I've followed those comments about very rapidly switching between generating and deploying. Fascinating stuff. And I wish there was more information available about the Honda firing order and such. Hearing the raspy exhaust note change instantly to a smooth note as the guys pull away from a stop is pretty incredible. Like switching from a sport bike to an Aston Martin by simply taking your foot off the brake pedal.

My guess is Gasly finishes 9th or 10th and Hartley on the outside looking in. Say 12th, if everything goes well. My guess is the Renault power units will be pretty solid with a good chance for Alonso to finish up to 4th. Hamilton to win it in a walk unless he has one of his off days this Saturday. Vettel needs to keep his cool.

Dren
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Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 13:19
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The Mclarens will need luck again to get into the points. The Haas should best them here. Curious to see where the TR cars will place. FI could go a bit better here, too.
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 19:11
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gofast182 wrote:
sennaFAN wrote:
If they post respectable speed traps or top speeds at the end of that HUGE straight then it bodes well for the rest of the season

I was just going to say that. This straight is unusually long and we don't know what setup they need to run for the rest of the circuit but from testing and the first two GPs it looks as if the Honda PU is powerful enough to generate competitive trap speeds.
A week or two ago there was a fascinating post on F1T that mentioned Honda's latest technique of very rapidly switching MGU-H output between generation (ES) and deployment (MGU-K); it's all in software and has gone a long way to helping sustain higher output.



Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like power wise, the Honda PU is really close to Renault now. The issue is that it can't extract and deploy as much electric power as good as others though. So if the straight isn't too long, the car can reach its top speed quickly like others. But it can't sustain the top speed for long enough as the battery power is gone fairly quickly.

So two long straightaways one after another, this could be a bit of an issue for STR-H and they could be defenseless especially when others have DRS?

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-12-2018 19:50
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Hondarulez wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like power wise, the Honda PU is really close to Renault now. The issue is that it can't extract and deploy as much electric power as good as others though. So if the straight isn't too long, the car can reach its top speed quickly like others. But it can't sustain the top speed for long enough as the battery power is gone fairly quickly.

So two long straightaways one after another, this could be a bit of an issue for STR-H and they could be defenseless especially when others have DRS?



That's pretty much it, in a nutshell, at least on how I understand it, except for one detail - the latest update to the regeneration system has closed the gap markedly, and their understanding of how best to use it via their software has improved markedly, so hopefully they have overcome most of the deployment issues they were suffering from?

My other concern is reliability! Let's wait and see, only a few hours now.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 00:38
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Got it. Thanks!

P11 and P16 thus far on soft tires in FP1 (lol Gasly trolls Alonso again by just getting ahead of him):


zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 02:59
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regarding long back straight....
zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 03:20
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ok, maybe this is not on the back straqht, but on the finish line, bus still, things are looking good.
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 04:15
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I watched foe and down the back straight, the long one, tr it 317kmh and was one of the fastest, if not the fastest. For comparison, Alonso needed vandoornes tow to reach 315.
shingles
Profile for shingles
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 07:12
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RSX wrote:
Has anyone seen the new watches Toro Rosso has released with Casio? Are these any good?

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso



Generally the Edifice watches have been pretty decent.

On a somewhat related note: it seems you can't get STR-H official merchandise in the US? If you go to Red Bull international site, it says they don't ship to USA... bummer really, I wanted to support the team.

-S

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 11:48
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shingles wrote:
RSX wrote:
Has anyone seen the new watches Toro Rosso has released with Casio? Are these any good?

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso



Generally the Edifice watches have been pretty decent.

On a somewhat related note: it seems you can't get STR-H official merchandise in the US? If you go to Red Bull international site, it says they don't ship to USA... bummer really, I wanted to support the team.

-S


I contacted them about that. They expect the STR-H merch. to become available for purchase in the US during the season but could not confirm when.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 12:14
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So at the moment the STR-H is a better package than the McLaren-Renault.

Renault is suppose to bring PU update(ERS)soon.

STR-H is suppose to have new Aero update at Baku.

and Big Honda PU update at Canada.

MarkR
Profile for MarkR
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 12:18
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zekohonda wrote:
regarding long back straight....


For me as an amateur, trap times like that is just hmm, puzzling.

Force India, TR, Sauber, not really known for whipping Merc&Ferrari, but they are faster on the straight, regardless it's claimed(and we see evidence) that Merc&Ferrari power away on the straights.

So, are they tuned for downforce and use all that power to gain in the twisties? What does it really say? That teams like Sauber has a good engine but those fools down trim to wings to give as much downforce as Merc&Ferrari...

I know all of above is just BS, but at the same time, just very puzzling...

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 13:28
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I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly.

But yea, top speed depends on both power and downforce. And as you can see in that chart, if you take away the Honda powered Toro Rosso, all of the other cars are powered by a Ferrari PU or a MB PU. So if McLaren had a draggy chassis last year, and that Renault is down on power, it would make sense that the MB and Ferrari cars power away on the straights from the McLaren Honda, Redbull Renault, TR Renault, and Renault works team.

Then there's the chassis as well. That combined with good aero means that a Ferrari or MB can get on the throttle sooner and exit each and every corner quicker. And once they get up behind a Williams for instance, that advantage would help catch up. With the help of slipstreaming and even DRS, the Ferrari and MB would look even faster.

Also teams like Ferrari and MB have a much higher budget for development. They can further develop the car to have higher downforce without adding too much drag. They can design the car such that the engine receives better cooling, so that they can perhaps run more aggressive settings without overheating. They can spend more time and money optimizing the chassis and suspension to minimize tire wear so the car can be driven faster for a longer period.

With more money, these teams can hire more talented and experience engineers and drivers for setting up the car properly. I'd assume someone like Vettel can provide a lot of good feedback to his engineers and mechanics vs a rookie like Gasly. This again can help with getting the advantage in the twisties and a higher exit speed, which helps with chasing the other MB/Ferrari powered cars.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 18:39
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That's basically it Hondaruez, you've got it.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
WatchESPN feed is great tonight Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2018 23:16
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I’m watching FP3 on our large TV via chromecast tonight and I have to say that the feed is superb. It’s much better than what I saw during practice at the Australian Grand Prix.

Bravo, ESPN.

that is all

Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: WatchESPN feed is great tonight F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2018 00:43
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After the third practice completed it appears Toro Rosso-Honda are not displaying the same competiveness on the Chinese GP track that they had at the Bahrain GP. Interesting to see the latest timed laps of the STR drivers in Practice 3 has Hartley in front of Gasly - although Gasly had a slightly faster time in Practice 2.

Let's see what happens in Qualifying - will both the STR drivers make into Q2 at least? We will know soon enough.

Go Toro Rosso-Honda! Go! Go! Go!

Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2018 02:20
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Hartley goes into Q2 and Gasly just misses out at the end of Q1!
Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2018 02:42
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Hartley is out in Q2 - retains 15th position (just behind the two McLaren drivers)!
towncaptain
Profile for towncaptain
Re: WatchESPN feed is great tonight F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2018 02:46
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Hopefully their race pace are there. This is a new track for both drivers where as Bahrain was a track they mastered before F1.
Vxtec
Profile for Vxtec
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2018 03:15
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The usual suspects in the top six!

Vettel
Raikkonen
Bottas
Hamilton (does not seem switched on/highly motivated)
Verstappen
Ricciardo

So two Ferraris in front row, Mercedes (starting a trend now?) 2nd row, Red Bull 3rd row.

Best of the rest - Hulkenberg (Renault) in 7th and team-mate Sainz in 9th, with Perez splitting the Renaults. Grosjean (Haas) 10th.

Hopefully, both the Toro Rosso-Honda drivers will make a great start, have no incidents/issues and be competitive in the race (although there has been no clear indications in practice they will have good race pace on this Chinese track). Realistically, it will be surprising, but welcome, if STR collects any points in this race.

We might need to wait, as RolledaNsx has pointed out, for aero update in the next race in Baku and Honda PU update in Canada.

Anyway, Go Toro Rosso-Honda! Go! Go! Go!

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2018 03:21
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I heard the tire degradation on the TR is pretty good. So they might be able to just do a one stopper?

Hopefully they could get in the points but things don't look promising yet.

But the target gotta be at least finishing the race for both cars to at least show the PU is reliable.

LOL at McLaren though - they are again at the very back of the 3 renault powered teams. So much for having the best chassis that's let down by a GP2 engine.

Restless
Profile for Restless
Re: F1 - 2018 Chinese Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2018 04:21
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Qualy as expected.
TR still has the least powerful engine and aero is not so good.

Or they really couldn't make a proper setup.
All cars except top3 are so close that the difference between Q1 and Q3 is as small as getting all best sectors in 1 lap or not


 
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