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TOV Forums > Strictly Technical > > Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight

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TonyEX
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Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2018 18:32
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I believe the Clarity PHEV uses an L15 with an Atkinson motor in an iMMD configuration.

The new Insight will likely use the same set up... while the '18 Accord iMMD will continue with the 2.0 Atkinson.

So, is the new Insight's powertrain pretty much a Non Plug version of the Clarity PHEV?

Nick GravesX
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Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-09-2018 13:53
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I'd pretty much presumed that to be the case.
JeffX
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Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 12:35
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From everything that I could gather it seems to be. Obviously it won't have the 17kWh battery and 47mile range but I assume pretty much everything else will remain mostly the same.

So don't expect much in the way of performance out of this Insight. 0-60 might be 10seconds, 1/4 mile in 17.5-18 in the low-mid 80s. At least it looks really nice.

superchg2
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Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 13:00
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Maybe it will do well in Japan?

The Clarity's outside of Cali seem to be the answer to the question that nobody really asked, and the bizarro styling ain't helping matters.

JeffX
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Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 13:07
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superchg2 wrote:
Maybe it will do well in Japan?

The Clarity's outside of Cali seem to be the answer to the question that nobody really asked, and the bizarro styling ain't helping matters.



The Clarity PHEV has okay performance (maybe around 9sec 0-60) and great efficiency and pretty good EV only range, but can it all outrun that goofy-ass styling? The Clarity's interior is quite nice though.

The Insight, on the other hand, has very nice styling (IMHO). I hope they can deliver better performance that I'm expecting, so it's not too much of a chore to drive.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 13:16
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If it's essentially the old Accord powertrain with a smaller ICE it oughtn't be too shabby, Shirley?
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 14:36
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JeffX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Maybe it will do well in Japan?

The Clarity's outside of Cali seem to be the answer to the question that nobody really asked, and the bizarro styling ain't helping matters.



The Clarity PHEV has okay performance (maybe around 9sec 0-60) and great efficiency and pretty good EV only range, but can it all outrun that goofy-ass styling? The Clarity's interior is quite nice though.

The Insight, on the other hand, has very nice styling (IMHO). I hope they can deliver better performance that I'm expecting, so it's not too much of a chore to drive.



The Clarity is a much nicer car to be in... specially the FCEV (Touring only) and the PHEV Touring.

I figure the Insight will be quite lighter than the Clarity PHEV so, even with the same powertrain, it ought to be faster. I'd guess 8secs or less from 0-60...

Goofy? Bizarro? Hrmphhhhh. >:-P

superchg2
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Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 15:15
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TonyEX wrote:
JeffX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Maybe it will do well in Japan?

The Clarity's outside of Cali seem to be the answer to the question that nobody really asked, and the bizarro styling ain't helping matters.



The Clarity PHEV has okay performance (maybe around 9sec 0-60) and great efficiency and pretty good EV only range, but can it all outrun that goofy-ass styling? The Clarity's interior is quite nice though.

The Insight, on the other hand, has very nice styling (IMHO). I hope they can deliver better performance that I'm expecting, so it's not too much of a chore to drive.



The Clarity is a much nicer car to be in... specially the FCEV (Touring only) and the PHEV Touring.

I figure the Insight will be quite lighter than the Clarity PHEV so, even with the same powertrain, it ought to be faster. I'd guess 8secs or less from 0-60...

Goofy? Bizarro? Hrmphhhhh. >:-P


Do you get thumbs up when you drive the Clarity?

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 15:25
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TonyEX wrote:
JeffX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Maybe it will do well in Japan?

The Clarity's outside of Cali seem to be the answer to the question that nobody really asked, and the bizarro styling ain't helping matters.



The Clarity PHEV has okay performance (maybe around 9sec 0-60) and great efficiency and pretty good EV only range, but can it all outrun that goofy-ass styling? The Clarity's interior is quite nice though.

The Insight, on the other hand, has very nice styling (IMHO). I hope they can deliver better performance that I'm expecting, so it's not too much of a chore to drive.



The Clarity is a much nicer car to be in... specially the FCEV (Touring only) and the PHEV Touring.

I figure the Insight will be quite lighter than the Clarity PHEV so, even with the same powertrain, it ought to be faster. I'd guess 8secs or less from 0-60...

Goofy? Bizarro? Hrmphhhhh. >:-P



it really depends upon how much current they're willing to let the battery spit out. I'm guessing it will be a really small battery in terms of capacity - like 1.3kWhr . That 1.5L Atkinson cycle engine only makes 103hp at its peak.

With the Clarity PHEV, we were told by the engineers that at peak system output the battery is delivering 100kW (134hp) and the engine is contributing 58kW (78hp). This adds up to 212hp. Of course, the traction motor can only use 182hp.

I'm guessing that the much smaller battery of the Insight won't be able to deliver that much energy, and if it were somehow capable, they wouldn't use it in that manner. If the battery were 1/10th the size of the Clarity PHEV's battery, that would indicate a 1.7kWh capacity, but I have my doubts that it will even be that large. MAYBE they'd pull 30kW, possibly 40kW out of the battery (40hp) and if you add that to the engine's peak output you could feasibly end up with a system rated output of about 140-155hp. Even if the insight comes in at 3300-3400lbs, I don't know if you'll be seeing 8sec or less 0-60. I'm hoping to be surprised. Note that if you're pulling 30-40kW out of a 1.3-1.7kWh battery you will drain it flat in a matter of a few minutes. This is also detrimental to the battery's long term health.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2018 16:02
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JeffX wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
JeffX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Maybe it will do well in Japan?

The Clarity's outside of Cali seem to be the answer to the question that nobody really asked, and the bizarro styling ain't helping matters.



The Clarity PHEV has okay performance (maybe around 9sec 0-60) and great efficiency and pretty good EV only range, but can it all outrun that goofy-ass styling? The Clarity's interior is quite nice though.

The Insight, on the other hand, has very nice styling (IMHO). I hope they can deliver better performance that I'm expecting, so it's not too much of a chore to drive.



The Clarity is a much nicer car to be in... specially the FCEV (Touring only) and the PHEV Touring.

I figure the Insight will be quite lighter than the Clarity PHEV so, even with the same powertrain, it ought to be faster. I'd guess 8secs or less from 0-60...

Goofy? Bizarro? Hrmphhhhh. >:-P



it really depends upon how much current they're willing to let the battery spit out. I'm guessing it will be a really small battery in terms of capacity - like 1.3kWhr . That 1.5L Atkinson cycle engine only makes 103hp at its peak.

With the Clarity PHEV, we were told by the engineers that at peak system output the battery is delivering 100kW (134hp) and the engine is contributing 58kW (78hp). This adds up to 212hp. Of course, the traction motor can only use 182hp.

I'm guessing that the much smaller battery of the Insight won't be able to deliver that much energy, and if it were somehow capable, they wouldn't use it in that manner. If the battery were 1/10th the size of the Clarity PHEV's battery, that would indicate a 1.7kWh capacity, but I have my doubts that it will even be that large. MAYBE they'd pull 30kW, possibly 40kW out of the battery (40hp) and if you add that to the engine's peak output you could feasibly end up with a system rated output of about 140-155hp. Even if the insight comes in at 3300-3400lbs, I don't know if you'll be seeing 8sec or less 0-60. I'm hoping to be surprised. Note that if you're pulling 30-40kW out of a 1.3-1.7kWh battery you will drain it flat in a matter of a few minutes. This is also detrimental to the battery's long term health.




I think the PHEV is not the model that we ought to compare the Insight with. I only brought it up because of the 1.5L engine.

IMHO, comparison wise it's the Accord iMMD that matters most. How big is the electric motor in the Insight?

In an iMMD non plug in, it doesn't really matter if the battery drains "too quickly" because it is not expected to drive a long way in BEV mode. It could do just like the '17 iMMD and drive up to 18 miles in BEV mode and it would still be an otherwise excellent "hybrid hybrid" car.

And, even with 150 bhp, you're ignoring the deep down torque transmission less driving qualities of an EV. It's VERY hard to compare the numbers of a direct drive EV with anything else... including stuff like Synergy and IMA....

We need to come up with a new measurement....

Scoot Power

"Dang it, this FCEV sure just scoots off the line!"

longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2018 09:57
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http://www.carscoops.com/2018/01/honda-details-2019-insight-prototype.html

Over 50mpg estimated.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2018 10:33
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A quick Google gives the 2015 Accord an EPA rating of 47.

So I think that's the best base line.

Slightly lighter, slightly slower, slightly (considerably, as it's a log scale...) more economical.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2018 16:18
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superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
JeffX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Maybe it will do well in Japan?

The Clarity's outside of Cali seem to be the answer to the question that nobody really asked, and the bizarro styling ain't helping matters.



The Clarity PHEV has okay performance (maybe around 9sec 0-60) and great efficiency and pretty good EV only range, but can it all outrun that goofy-ass styling? The Clarity's interior is quite nice though.

The Insight, on the other hand, has very nice styling (IMHO). I hope they can deliver better performance that I'm expecting, so it's not too much of a chore to drive.



The Clarity is a much nicer car to be in... specially the FCEV (Touring only) and the PHEV Touring.

I figure the Insight will be quite lighter than the Clarity PHEV so, even with the same powertrain, it ought to be faster. I'd guess 8secs or less from 0-60...

Goofy? Bizarro? Hrmphhhhh. >:-P


Do you get thumbs up when you drive the Clarity?



Do you think I care about what the great unwashed with Merde for Brains who fail to recognize Citroenesque Brilliance think about my cars? Zut Alors!

So, at the Disneyland Resort they got this restaurant called Goofy's kitchen.

It's pretty good, a buffet, but not cheap and the food is rather good. They got characters walking around... Goofy, Alice in Wonderland (*), etc... You sit in booths that are aligned in rows. So in many cases your booth will back to a hallway of sorts.

We used to go there with the kids when we had the Passports. We'd go on Wednesday evenings for dinner.

There's no liquor, wine, beer...

One night, I was in a good spirits and I jokingly stated to my family that the fare in that place was "dog food".. (**). My kids started giggling and pointing behind me and, lo and behold, there was the Goofy character making funny gestures. I believe he did catch the connection and humor.

It was a funny, goofy moment.

BTW: have you noticed that Disney characters only have four fingers? I once asked Goofy how he wore his gloves, which fingers went where....

(*) A few times, the Alice was an Asian woman in her early 30s. We used to joke that we wanted whatever drugs she was on. I mean, no one can be so... happy!... all the time. She likely went outside on her breaks, smoked a couple of menthols and punched a boxing bag a couple of 100 times.

(**) Goofy... do you get it?


superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Clarity PHEV and new Insight    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2018 20:56
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TonyEX wrote:

Do you think I care about what the great unwashed with Merde for Brains who fail to recognize Citroenesque Brilliance think about my cars? Zut Alors!



One of my favorite Citroen's was the wagon that they took through the drive through in Dude, where's my car.
And then?



 
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