[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
Honda announces changes for 2019 Civic, including new Sport trim
More.......................
When is the 2019 Accord arriving in showrooms? Maybe not until 2019
More.......................
American Honda Reports July Sales Results
More.......................
Official statement from Honda concerning flooding of Celaya factory
More.......................
News from the dealer side: 2019 HR-V, Fit, and Insight production impacted due to flooding in Celaya
More.......................
2019 Honda HR-V updated with styling tweaks, Apple CarPlay/Android Auto, and available Honda Sensing
More.......................
2019 Acura MDX Arrives with Luxury and Performance Upgrades Plus First A-Spec Variant
More.......................
SPIED IN EUROPE! Civic Type R refresh
More.......................
Professional Motorsports --> Re: Alonso Quits F1
Join Discussion......
Accord --> Re: Local dealer has a bunch of new 17 Accord Tourings in front of building.
Join Discussion......
Honda Motorcycles --> Re: Retro Honda CBX returning - yes it has an L6. July 12-18
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: DC-R
Join Discussion......
Pilot --> Re: Chevy Prepping Mini-Blazer
Join Discussion......
HR-V/Vezel --> Re: European HRV with 1.5 L VTEC Turbo engine coming Spring 2019
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Alaska Airlines plane hijacked
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Navigation and Subtle Aromatherapy
Join Discussion......
Clarity --> Re: Clarity PHEV Owner
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: "Moose Test". Nissan Kicks fail
Join Discussion......
Civic --> Re: Re:Honda Debuts 2019 Civic Sport in Sedan and Coupe Form
Join Discussion......
Fuel Cell Technology --> Re: H2 for All... again at last!
Join Discussion......
Fuel Cell Technology --> Re: No more 3rd gen FC Clarity, Hello 2020 4th gen
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: Red Bull Ring Round 11 MotoGP (spoiler)
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: The new and used Jeeps are moving off the lot in New Jersey
Join Discussion......
First Drive: 2019 Honda Insight
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Insight PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura RDX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura RDX Features & Specifications
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery - 2019 Acura RDX Advance
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery - 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
  TOV News > Honda reports October 2015 Sales > > Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX )

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1] 2
Author
    
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-03-2015 17:27
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.

(2) Good to see the TLX, but still way not enough. What was the top selling year for the TL? 78K in 2005. Besides in 2006, 38K TSXs were sold... so the TLX needs to sell 113K to cover them both. The TLX might hit 65K this year, hmmm.... Perhaps a TLX-S is what's needed.

Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-03-2015 17:51
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.

(2) Good to see the TLX, but still way not enough. What was the top selling year for the TL? 78K in 2005. Besides in 2006, 38K TSXs were sold... so the TLX needs to sell 113K to cover them both. The TLX might hit 65K this year, hmmm.... Perhaps a TLX-S is what's needed.


-Seriously? I thought we all went over this before. One, it is not 10 years ago with the kind of competition there is now. I should just stop there because that already makes your point non-sensical. Two, the fact is the TLX is only 1 car not 2, expecting it to take the best year of a car in a whole different time plus add in another car would just not be expected to be realistic (even if acura initially said it was replacing the TSX and TL). The reality is that the TL went away the TSX went away and the TLX and ILX were born. I am not an optimistic person but do we have to look at glass 1/2 full around here all-the-time. I give a crap about the sales as long as they are decent to keep it a relevant product, but people around here need to at least give a nod to the success of the TLX. Acura is on the right track, lets hope they continue.

I recall when the TLX hit over 4G in sales and people were saying that is a very good indication, but no it needs to show more... then when it just about close to 5K in sales people were saying that looks great but lets see if they can keep it up... now it hits closing on 6K in sales and this is still not good come on.

I think Acura's issue was the ILX... and they might have at least tweaked it enough to hit the 2K mark. It should be 3K if they did not F it up.

B.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-03-2015 17:54
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.

(2) Good to see the TLX, but still way not enough. What was the top selling year for the TL? 78K in 2005. Besides in 2006, 38K TSXs were sold... so the TLX needs to sell 113K to cover them both. The TLX might hit 65K this year, hmmm.... Perhaps a TLX-S is what's needed.



Can't really compare to sales data from 10 years ago. Other than the fact that the 3G TL was a great car, Acura enjoyed great success with the TL 10 years ago also because there were far fewer worthy competitors. For those that didn't want a 3 series or a 3 series wannabe (G35), the next best thing was pretty much the TL.

Also, it's more like the ILX + TLX replaced the TSX and TL.

Without good brand reputation like BMW, I don't think the TLX will ever match the sales figures of the 3G TL.

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-03-2015 18:12
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I think this is a blip (so will next month be) as they unload remaining '15s with cash on the hood. I think the steady state number for the car is 4,000-4,500 which is respectable, given the givens. Just don't be surprised when it returns to those numbers.
Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-03-2015 20:01
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Here are the total US Acura sales by year . . .

It has been a roller coaster ride for almost 30 years. The dealers are the folks taking this on the chin for the bad years (1995 was the worst). 2005 was the banner year, but Acura began it's rapid slide before the 2008 crash. By 2009 they sold half as many cars as 2005. Dealers cannot tolerate this for very long.

Acura's first goal, using its limited resources, must be to build sales for the dealers to make money, not placate the dwindling community of enthusiasts. The ILX appears to be the only real stumble they've made along the way. It serves no perceptible market for the Acura brand image.

Calendar year Total US sales
1986 52,869
1987 109,470
1988 128,238
1989 142,061
1990 138,344
1991 143,708
1992 120,100
1993 108,291
1994 112,137
1995 97,451
1996 107,908
1997 108,143
1998 110,392
1999 118,006
2000 142,681
2001 170,109
2002 165,552
2003 170,918
2004 198,919
2005 209,610
2006 201,223
2007 180,104
2008 144,504
2009 105,723
2010 133,606
2011 123,299
2012 156,216
2013 165,436
2014 167,843

Acura is on the way to selling almost 180,000 for 2015. Something is working correctly.


Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-03-2015 20:38
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Is the MDX inventory restrained or is it just now a car which is not doing great this year vs last years hot start? This is yet again another month it has performed less then last year.

B.

Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-03-2015 22:46
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Brutus wrote:
Is the MDX inventory restrained or is it just now a car which is not doing great this year vs last years hot start? This is yet again another month it has performed less then last year.
The press release stated, "Sales of MDX remained robust at 4,405 for the month despite limited supply." I assume "limited supply" and "restrained" mean the same thing. Blame the Pilot (same factory), which is selling beyond expectations.

acuraguy
Profile for acuraguy
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 02:09
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
It's good to see acura car sales showing some decent growth. I wonder how many sales are being left on the table with the absence of a type s model. Around here I hardly see any non fsport lexus IS... Having driven both back to back I'm sure that many people like myself just won't settle for the TLX as is, even though we'd rather have an Acura product.
BallerMDX
Profile for BallerMDX
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 03:05
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Brutus wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.

(2) Good to see the TLX, but still way not enough. What was the top selling year for the TL? 78K in 2005. Besides in 2006, 38K TSXs were sold... so the TLX needs to sell 113K to cover them both. The TLX might hit 65K this year, hmmm.... Perhaps a TLX-S is what's needed.


-Seriously? I thought we all went over this before. One, it is not 10 years ago with the kind of competition there is now. I should just stop there because that already makes your point non-sensical. Two, the fact is the TLX is only 1 car not 2, expecting it to take the best year of a car in a whole different time plus add in another car would just not be expected to be realistic (even if acura initially said it was replacing the TSX and TL). The reality is that the TL went away the TSX went away and the TLX and ILX were born. I am not an optimistic person but do we have to look at glass 1/2 full around here all-the-time. I give a crap about the sales as long as they are decent to keep it a relevant product, but people around here need to at least give a nod to the success of the TLX. Acura is on the right track, lets hope they continue.

I recall when the TLX hit over 4G in sales and people were saying that is a very good indication, but no it needs to show more... then when it just about close to 5K in sales people were saying that looks great but lets see if they can keep it up... now it hits closing on 6K in sales and this is still not good come on.

I think Acura's issue was the ILX... and they might have at least tweaked it enough to hit the 2K mark. It should be 3K if they did not F it up.

B.



+1

Thank you! I just don't understand why people here keep trying to compare TLX vs. TL + TSX... As you said, even if Acura said they are replacing them both with one car, it's still just "one car"... The TLX in all its current versions does not make up for two different car sizes with distinct interior/exterior designs.

Also, aside from stiffer competition in its own class, we absolutely have to account for the rise in popularity of SUVs/CUVs. You'd have to be a fool to think the MDX and RDX aren't zapping a large portion of sales away from the sedans in the lineup. This really wasn't an issue for the 3rd generation TL.

So, if you really want to measure the success of the TLX, you need to compare it to the other cars in the "current" market it competes in. This is just common sense, and so at this point it seems some folks here just don't want to see the TLX succeed. They'll keep pushing an unrealistic comparison between the TLX and the best years of the TL + TSX. It just doesn't hold water, though.


BallerMDX
Profile for BallerMDX
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 03:08
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Brutus wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.

(2) Good to see the TLX, but still way not enough. What was the top selling year for the TL? 78K in 2005. Besides in 2006, 38K TSXs were sold... so the TLX needs to sell 113K to cover them both. The TLX might hit 65K this year, hmmm.... Perhaps a TLX-S is what's needed.


-Seriously? I thought we all went over this before. One, it is not 10 years ago with the kind of competition there is now. I should just stop there because that already makes your point non-sensical. Two, the fact is the TLX is only 1 car not 2, expecting it to take the best year of a car in a whole different time plus add in another car would just not be expected to be realistic (even if acura initially said it was replacing the TSX and TL). The reality is that the TL went away the TSX went away and the TLX and ILX were born. I am not an optimistic person but do we have to look at glass 1/2 full around here all-the-time. I give a crap about the sales as long as they are decent to keep it a relevant product, but people around here need to at least give a nod to the success of the TLX. Acura is on the right track, lets hope they continue.

I recall when the TLX hit over 4G in sales and people were saying that is a very good indication, but no it needs to show more... then when it just about close to 5K in sales people were saying that looks great but lets see if they can keep it up... now it hits closing on 6K in sales and this is still not good come on.

I think Acura's issue was the ILX... and they might have at least tweaked it enough to hit the 2K mark. It should be 3K if they did not F it up.

B.



+1

Thank you! I just don't understand why people here keep trying to compare TLX vs. TL + TSX... As you said, even if Acura said they are replacing them both with one car, it's still just "one car"... The TLX in all its current versions does not make up for two different car sizes with distinct interior/exterior designs.

Also, aside from stiffer competition in its own class, we absolutely have to account for the rise in popularity of SUVs/CUVs. You'd have to be a fool to think the MDX and RDX aren't zapping a large portion of sales away from the sedans in the lineup. This really wasn't an issue for the 3rd generation TL.

So, if you really want to measure the success of the TLX, you need to compare it to the other cars in the "current" market it competes with. This is just common sense, and so at this point it seems some folks here just don't want to see the TLX succeed. They'll keep pushing an unrealistic comparison between the TLX and the best years of the TL + TSX. It just doesn't hold water, though.


BallerMDX
Profile for BallerMDX
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 03:10
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Brutus wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.

(2) Good to see the TLX, but still way not enough. What was the top selling year for the TL? 78K in 2005. Besides in 2006, 38K TSXs were sold... so the TLX needs to sell 113K to cover them both. The TLX might hit 65K this year, hmmm.... Perhaps a TLX-S is what's needed.


-Seriously? I thought we all went over this before. One, it is not 10 years ago with the kind of competition there is now. I should just stop there because that already makes your point non-sensical. Two, the fact is the TLX is only 1 car not 2, expecting it to take the best year of a car in a whole different time plus add in another car would just not be expected to be realistic (even if acura initially said it was replacing the TSX and TL). The reality is that the TL went away the TSX went away and the TLX and ILX were born. I am not an optimistic person but do we have to look at glass 1/2 full around here all-the-time. I give a crap about the sales as long as they are decent to keep it a relevant product, but people around here need to at least give a nod to the success of the TLX. Acura is on the right track, lets hope they continue.

I recall when the TLX hit over 4G in sales and people were saying that is a very good indication, but no it needs to show more... then when it just about close to 5K in sales people were saying that looks great but lets see if they can keep it up... now it hits closing on 6K in sales and this is still not good come on.

I think Acura's issue was the ILX... and they might have at least tweaked it enough to hit the 2K mark. It should be 3K if they did not F it up.

B.



Funky Chicken
Profile for Funky Chicken
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 09:04
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
In 2005 the RDX did not exist.
In 2005 Honda sold 150,219 Cr-Vs. This year that will more than double.
We have cannibalized our own sedan sales, but it is what our buyer wants.
At our dealership the majority of people still driving 3G TLs are trading for RDXs. They are 10 years older and their needs have changed. They want to be up higher for both visibility and ease of ingress/egress.
My bigger concern than why we can't sell 100K TLXs is the fact that in order to sell 5,777 of them we had to give them away in the first year of the cycle. The TLX became an Accord /Camry/Altima competitor last month based on pricing. I don't think it can ever recover from that.
It's not really the car's fault, either. After 5,000 miles in a demo, I would put a V6 SH-AWD up against just about anything out there priced below $50K, but nobody cares because it looks like a $30,000 car.

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 12:37
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The biggest concern ought to be with the poor implementation of new transmission technology and infotainment still needs to be done right.

In terms of offering a product that gets it about right in terms of basic premise, I think the TLX is an unqualified success. There is a market for a nicely done FWD sedan aggressively priced. While there are better upmarket sedans available, they're all significantly more expensive.

The transmissions do need to be sorted out, infotainment improved, and a higher-performance version is surprising in its absence. At its core, though, Acura is on the right track with the TLX.


rocky
Profile for rocky
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 13:07
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.




Not enough sales to warrant an entirely new factory for these two vehicles. Hope they have production going elsewhere.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 13:15
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Funky Chicken wrote:
In 2005 the RDX did not exist.
In 2005 Honda sold 150,219 Cr-Vs. This year that will more than double.
We have cannibalized our own sedan sales, but it is what our buyer wants.
At our dealership the majority of people still driving 3G TLs are trading for RDXs. They are 10 years older and their needs have changed. They want to be up higher for both visibility and ease of ingress/egress.
My bigger concern than why we can't sell 100K TLXs is the fact that in order to sell 5,777 of them we had to give them away in the first year of the cycle. The TLX became an Accord /Camry/Altima competitor last month based on pricing. I don't think it can ever recover from that.
It's not really the car's fault, either. After 5,000 miles in a demo, I would put a V6 SH-AWD up against just about anything out there priced below $50K, but nobody cares because it looks like a $30,000 car.



haha, I'm one of those who sold a TL (2G) and got a RDX instead. I don't have kids, but over the years of having the TL, I realized that having some extra cargo room is pretty darn useful..also..the wife wanted a CUV/SUV instead of a sedan.

As for the incentives on the TLX, I know that in Canada, we get like $4k off. But Lexus Canada is even more aggressive, by offering $5.5k to $6k off the IS250/350 and ES. How about the US? I heard from some other dude that Lexus is offering $6k off the IS too in the States.



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 15:52
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Funky Chicken wrote:
...
It's not really the car's fault, either. After 5,000 miles in a demo, I would put a V6 SH-AWD up against just about anything out there priced below $50K, but nobody cares because it looks like a $30,000 car.



Hmm... I got a 15 Accord Hybrid Touring, a 15 RDX AWD Tech and 15 TLX Tech SH-AWD

When I park them next to each other the TLX looks much better than the Accord. It looks far more luxurious, in and out. Both cars are almost the same color, too... dark silver metallic.

rocky
Profile for rocky
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 15:58
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
Funky Chicken wrote:
...
It's not really the car's fault, either. After 5,000 miles in a demo, I would put a V6 SH-AWD up against just about anything out there priced below $50K, but nobody cares because it looks like a $30,000 car.



Hmm... I got a 15 Accord Hybrid Touring, a 15 RDX AWD Tech and 15 TLX Tech SH-AWD

When I park them next to each other the TLX looks much better than the Accord. It looks far more luxurious, in and out. Both cars are almost the same color, too... dark silver metallic.



And they are all built in Ohio which has that great new paint facility. Take that same color and compare the paint finish from Alabama. I just don't think the quality of finish is as good from Alabama.

Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 16:04
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
How about adding a tlx with and RDX vs a 2005 TL :-P

Carm BTW I am happy with my tranny 8sp DCT.

B.

Karl O.
Profile for Karl O.
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 17:01
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Hondarulez wrote:
Funky Chicken wrote:
In 2005 the RDX did not exist.
In 2005 Honda sold 150,219 Cr-Vs. This year that will more than double.
We have cannibalized our own sedan sales, but it is what our buyer wants.
At our dealership the majority of people still driving 3G TLs are trading for RDXs. They are 10 years older and their needs have changed. They want to be up higher for both visibility and ease of ingress/egress.
My bigger concern than why we can't sell 100K TLXs is the fact that in order to sell 5,777 of them we had to give them away in the first year of the cycle. The TLX became an Accord /Camry/Altima competitor last month based on pricing. I don't think it can ever recover from that.
It's not really the car's fault, either. After 5,000 miles in a demo, I would put a V6 SH-AWD up against just about anything out there priced below $50K, but nobody cares because it looks like a $30,000 car.



haha, I'm one of those who sold a TL (2G) and got a RDX instead. I don't have kids, but over the years of having the TL, I realized that having some extra cargo room is pretty darn useful..also..the wife wanted a CUV/SUV instead of a sedan.

As for the incentives on the TLX, I know that in Canada, we get like $4k off. But Lexus Canada is even more aggressive, by offering $5.5k to $6k off the IS250/350 and ES. How about the US? I heard from some other dude that Lexus is offering $6k off the IS too in the States.





I got an e-mail from a dealer offering up to $8k off '15 V6 TLXs. The base 4 cyl was $28k-ish and the tech car was about $31k. And $6k off '15 or '16 ILXs.


CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 17:42
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Brutus wrote:
How about adding a tlx with and RDX vs a 2005 TL :-P

Carm BTW I am happy with my tranny 8sp DCT.

B.



There have been issues with the in-house DCT and a bit less so with the ZF nine-speed. I have to believe it has impacted sales somewhat. It caused me to hesitate and I'm still monitoring the situation as cold weather returns.

It's a challenge to achieve better fuel economy while not weakening driving enjoyment, a weakness of the earliest CVT designs. Meanwhile DCTs are proving hard to implement. The most interesting approach is Mazda's. Without using CVTs or DCTs, Mazda has been getting good results.

Of course, for a few of us, a solution would be simple to implement. Offer a MT. Broaden the TLX's appeal, even if only modestly.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 18:02
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Karl O. wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
Funky Chicken wrote:
In 2005 the RDX did not exist.
In 2005 Honda sold 150,219 Cr-Vs. This year that will more than double.
We have cannibalized our own sedan sales, but it is what our buyer wants.
At our dealership the majority of people still driving 3G TLs are trading for RDXs. They are 10 years older and their needs have changed. They want to be up higher for both visibility and ease of ingress/egress.
My bigger concern than why we can't sell 100K TLXs is the fact that in order to sell 5,777 of them we had to give them away in the first year of the cycle. The TLX became an Accord /Camry/Altima competitor last month based on pricing. I don't think it can ever recover from that.
It's not really the car's fault, either. After 5,000 miles in a demo, I would put a V6 SH-AWD up against just about anything out there priced below $50K, but nobody cares because it looks like a $30,000 car.



haha, I'm one of those who sold a TL (2G) and got a RDX instead. I don't have kids, but over the years of having the TL, I realized that having some extra cargo room is pretty darn useful..also..the wife wanted a CUV/SUV instead of a sedan.

As for the incentives on the TLX, I know that in Canada, we get like $4k off. But Lexus Canada is even more aggressive, by offering $5.5k to $6k off the IS250/350 and ES. How about the US? I heard from some other dude that Lexus is offering $6k off the IS too in the States.





I got an e-mail from a dealer offering up to $8k off '15 V6 TLXs. The base 4 cyl was $28k-ish and the tech car was about $31k. And $6k off '15 or '16 ILXs.




In Canada? Would you mind sending it to my email?? I have a buddy looking to trade in his mini cooper S for a sedan.

spagolli94
Profile for spagolli94
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 18:28
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
It's not that the TLX is a bad car, it's just very bland. It's obvious that it appeals to a large market, so in that sense it's a sales victory.

But why not offer a Type-S for enthusiasts? Something that looks closer to the stunning prototype. Give it some larger rims, wider tires, exposed exhaust, lower stance and tasteful body kit.

Even the Accord Sport looks more aggressive and purposeful than the TLX.

I can't imaging this would require too much retooling on the assembly line so even as a low-volume car, Acura should be able to turn a profit, sell even more cars AND keep the enthusiasts happy.

Lexus has the F-Sport. Audi has the S-Line. BMW has the M package (I'm not talking about the real M cars), etc. Why not Acura???

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 18:38
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
acuraguy wrote:
It's good to see acura car sales showing some decent growth. I wonder how many sales are being left on the table with the absence of a type s model. Around here I hardly see any non fsport lexus IS... Having driven both back to back I'm sure that many people like myself just won't settle for the TLX as is, even though we'd rather have an Acura product.


I could be wrong, certainly, but regarding the IS, I think Lexus is not positioning it well. The MSRP has climbed significantly with the move to a turbo in the base configuration yet the performance is not that exceptional. Car and Driver just posted a review in which the IS 200t was clocked at 6.8 seconds to 60 mph, identical to that same publication's results with the 2.4L TLX. Pricing is dramatically higher for the IS vs. the TLX and while the IS has a decidedly more premium-looking interior and RWD, it doesn't dramatically outdo the TLX, certainly in terms of acceleration. The price difference, even using simply MSRP, is so substantial that you really have to like the IS a whole lot more to justify the cost. That's a hard sell. Really, to try and match up the IS 200t with the base TLX you have to go with the F Sport the way it's packaged here in Canada. That MSRPs for $43,250 vs. The TLX at about $35,000. You can't get Nav, etc. in the 200t. Period. Basically you can't get a 200t in this country to match the TLX Tech package at any price.

As a $37,000 base car here in Canada, the IS would be upgraded with the additional base power from the turbo but now at closer to $40,000, it's not nearly as appealing, in my opinion, not considering the turbo merely allows the IS to keep up with the base TLX.

NorCalSales
Profile for NorCalSales
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 20:23
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
rocky wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
(1) Seems like the Fit is constrained.... in 2015 ( Fit + HRV ) = 2014 ( Fit ) sales.




Not enough sales to warrant an entirely new factory for these two vehicles. Hope they have production going elsewhere.



Dead wrong... waiting lists on both cars

accord1999
Profile for accord1999
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 22:14
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Hondarulez wrote:
In Canada? Would you mind sending it to my email?? I have a buddy looking to trade in his mini cooper S for a sedan.

If you check unhaggle.ca, it's indicating a $6000 cash purchase factory incentive for V6 TLXs and $5000 for SH-AWD Techs and Elites. Plus you should be able to negotiate a further $2000 from the dealer side, but there may not be much supply left.

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-04-2015 22:36
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
spagolli94 wrote:
But why not offer a Type-S for enthusiasts? Something that looks closer to the stunning prototype. Give it some larger rims, wider tires, exposed exhaust, lower stance and tasteful body kit.

I can't imaging this would require too much retooling on the assembly line so even as a low-volume car, Acura should be able to turn a profit, sell even more cars AND keep the enthusiasts happy.


Enthusiasts happy? Impossible task. If they made a Type-S version as a low volume car, which trim to make? Tech, Advance or Base? What about transmission? Let's say they add 6MT only (makes automatic drivers unhappy), and kept it to one trim only... say Advance (makes people who want a 'track car' unhappy) what about color selection? Let's say the limit to "Red, White and Blue" someone will chime in that they wanted Black. Basically what I'm saying that people will always find something to be upset about.

The only "possible" way to get around it, is to recall some Acura heritage like the Type-R Integra. One trim only, one color only, and limited 500 car production run that you could build once and resume regular production quickly. BUT it would have to be Type-R "worthy" and not just a body kit and suede seats.

Do the parts even exist? Assuming that a 20HP bump isn't enough (no RLX motor), is there an emissions certified turbo V-6 in in the corporate parts bin or pipeline? Is there a 6MT that takes that kind of torque output? What about the (assumed) SH-AWD system. I don't think these driveline components are ready but I could be wrong. As much as it sounds good on paper, I don't think it's as easy as written (IMO of course).

Karl O.
Profile for Karl O.
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-05-2015 11:30
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Hondarulez wrote:
Karl O. wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
Funky Chicken wrote:
In 2005 the RDX did not exist.
In 2005 Honda sold 150,219 Cr-Vs. This year that will more than double.
We have cannibalized our own sedan sales, but it is what our buyer wants.
At our dealership the majority of people still driving 3G TLs are trading for RDXs. They are 10 years older and their needs have changed. They want to be up higher for both visibility and ease of ingress/egress.
My bigger concern than why we can't sell 100K TLXs is the fact that in order to sell 5,777 of them we had to give them away in the first year of the cycle. The TLX became an Accord /Camry/Altima competitor last month based on pricing. I don't think it can ever recover from that.
It's not really the car's fault, either. After 5,000 miles in a demo, I would put a V6 SH-AWD up against just about anything out there priced below $50K, but nobody cares because it looks like a $30,000 car.



haha, I'm one of those who sold a TL (2G) and got a RDX instead. I don't have kids, but over the years of having the TL, I realized that having some extra cargo room is pretty darn useful..also..the wife wanted a CUV/SUV instead of a sedan.

As for the incentives on the TLX, I know that in Canada, we get like $4k off. But Lexus Canada is even more aggressive, by offering $5.5k to $6k off the IS250/350 and ES. How about the US? I heard from some other dude that Lexus is offering $6k off the IS too in the States.





I got an e-mail from a dealer offering up to $8k off '15 V6 TLXs. The base 4 cyl was $28k-ish and the tech car was about $31k. And $6k off '15 or '16 ILXs.




In Canada? Would you mind sending it to my email?? I have a buddy looking to trade in his mini cooper S for a sedan.



Sorry I should have quoted more accurately - I was responding to the question about the U.S. It was Acura of Orange Park in Jacksonville, FL. It ended in October.

spagolli94
Profile for spagolli94
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-05-2015 11:44
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I was more thinking in terms of an appearance package, like other brands do. The TLX doesn't need much to approach the beautiful lines of the concept car.

19" rims, wider tires and a slightly lowered stance would work wonders. I'm not talking about a slammed tuner look. I'm talking something subtle and tasteful.

I have an IS 350 F-Sport. In terms of performance, it's probably similar to the TLX. But I parked next to a TLX the other day and was able to look at both cars from behind, side by side. The difference in stance/presence was night and day.

Personally, I think the styling of the Lexus is over the top. I tend to like the cleaner lines of the TLX. But the TLX just looked a bit wimpy in comparison. Regardless of what the specs say, it looked tall and skinny as opposed to solid and "hunkered down."

Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-05-2015 14:51
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
spagolli94 wrote:
It's not that the TLX is a bad car, it's just very bland. It's obvious that it appeals to a large market, so in that sense it's a sales victory.

But why not offer a Type-S for enthusiasts? Something that looks closer to the stunning prototype. Give it some larger rims, wider tires, exposed exhaust, lower stance and tasteful body kit.

Even the Accord Sport looks more aggressive and purposeful than the TLX.

I can't imaging this would require too much retooling on the assembly line so even as a low-volume car, Acura should be able to turn a profit, sell even more cars AND keep the enthusiasts happy.

Lexus has the F-Sport. Audi has the S-Line. BMW has the M package (I'm not talking about the real M cars), etc. Why not Acura???

I think you're right. Regardless of whether or not Acura offers a full-on enthusiast version, they should at least offer a sport package. Aside from the fact that even the Accord offers such a thing, Acura's competitors all do as well, as you noted. I would bet that the sport-line packages sell far more than the actual full-on sport models, and they are great for both image and profit.

That said, the upgrade package should be called A-Spec. Type-S should be the full-on enthusiast model.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Fit vs HRC and TLX vs (TL + TSX ) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-05-2015 15:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
accord1999 wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
In Canada? Would you mind sending it to my email?? I have a buddy looking to trade in his mini cooper S for a sedan.

If you check unhaggle.ca, it's indicating a $6000 cash purchase factory incentive for V6 TLXs and $5000 for SH-AWD Techs and Elites. Plus you should be able to negotiate a further $2000 from the dealer side, but there may not be much supply left.



Oh cool, didn't know about this site, thank you!


 
Thread Page - [1] 2
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
29 mobile: 0