[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
Is Acura going to reveal a new Legend at Pebble Beach this year?
More.......................
Honda reports February Sales
More.......................
Honda revealing production RWD prototype of Urban EV Concept at the Geneva International Motorshow
More.......................
BBC: Honda set to close Swindon factory in 2022
More.......................
Nikkei: Honda enters agreement with CATL for battery supply contract through 2027
More.......................
Acura Marks 30 Years Since Debut of Iconic NSX Supercar
More.......................
American Honda reports January sales
More.......................
Acura Marks 15th Anniversary of Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™
More.......................
Today's Reading Links --> Re: How Acura orchestrated a massive turnaround with a renewed focus on design
Join Discussion......
Civic --> Re: I chose the Si over the GTI
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Honda / Acura Shakeup?
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Hyundai i30 Fastback N (2019)
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Car and Driver's new site.
Join Discussion......
Ridgeline - General Talk --> Re: 2020 Ridgeline
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: DC-R
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: Desmond Regamaster Installed!
Join Discussion......
Hot Deals --> Re: K-Tuner For Sale!!!
Join Discussion......
Amateur Racing & Driving --> Re: Vigor @ NCCAR Apexfest
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Accord-based CT5?!
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: 2024 Honda Le Mans Racecar.
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: IMSA - 2019 Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: F1 - 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Spoilers
Join Discussion......
Ridgeline - General Talk --> 2020 Ridgeline
Join Discussion......
2019 Honda Passport PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
2019 Acura NSX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura ILX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura ILX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Honda Pilot
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Pilot PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: Long Beach Grand Prix

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1] 2
Author
  Post New Thread
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-13-2015 19:54
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
OK, time for a weekend at the Beach. This year we got seats high up on the same stand: Between the hairpin and the entry to the pits. Being higher up you can see the cars in the last three turns as well.

(1) We'll see if the Honda Kabuki Aero Package works as expected. My personal belief is that it's designed to shed all kinds of little parts when a Chevy is following, hence forcing the latter to perform Kabuki lest they commit Seppuku.

(2) It's good to see Real Time Racing back. With their AWD, it will be VERY interesting what line they take through the last turns and the hairpin... also how they grab existing the hairpin... most cars can NOT put full power right there without spinning/sliding.

(3) Weather is supposed to be great as usual. Good cold mexican been and spicy tacos. What else can you want?

(4) Wife wants to stick around until the drafting. I don't.

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-14-2015 19:09
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
OK, time for a weekend at the Beach. This year we got seats high up on the same stand: Between the hairpin and the entry to the pits. Being higher up you can see the cars in the last three turns as well.

(1) We'll see if the Honda Kabuki Aero Package works as expected. My personal belief is that it's designed to shed all kinds of little parts when a Chevy is following, hence forcing the latter to perform Kabuki lest they commit Seppuku.

(2) It's good to see Real Time Racing back. With their AWD, it will be VERY interesting what line they take through the last turns and the hairpin... also how they grab existing the hairpin... most cars can NOT put full power right there without spinning/sliding.

(3) Weather is supposed to be great as usual. Good cold mexican been and spicy tacos. What else can you want?

(4) Wife wants to stick around until the drafting. I don't.



Not interested in IMSA? give the low number of cars, Shank has a real chance to win this. Which is more than I can say for the Honda's in Indycar.

HondaJet
Profile for HondaJet
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2015 00:44
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
OK, time for a weekend at the Beach. This year we got seats high up on the same stand: Between the hairpin and the entry to the pits. Being higher up you can see the cars in the last three turns as well.

(1) We'll see if the Honda Kabuki Aero Package works as expected. My personal belief is that it's designed to shed all kinds of little parts when a Chevy is following, hence forcing the latter to perform Kabuki lest they commit Seppuku.

(2) It's good to see Real Time Racing back. With their AWD, it will be VERY interesting what line they take through the last turns and the hairpin... also how they grab existing the hairpin... most cars can NOT put full power right there without spinning/sliding.

(3) Weather is supposed to be great as usual. Good cold mexican been and spicy tacos. What else can you want?

(4) Wife wants to stick around until the drafting. I don't.




I'll be there at the track, albeit Friday only. I'll be taking in the sights and sounds of the street circuit. My favorite cars to glance at are the Civic Si Safety Cars. Last time I was there, there was an Accord Coupe safety car too, I think. Looking forward to seeing the TLX-GT racecar.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2015 21:31
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
HondaJet wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
OK, time for a weekend at the Beach. This year we got seats high up on the same stand: Between the hairpin and the entry to the pits. Being higher up you can see the cars in the last three turns as well.

(1) We'll see if the Honda Kabuki Aero Package works as expected. My personal belief is that it's designed to shed all kinds of little parts when a Chevy is following, hence forcing the latter to perform Kabuki lest they commit Seppuku.

(2) It's good to see Real Time Racing back. With their AWD, it will be VERY interesting what line they take through the last turns and the hairpin... also how they grab existing the hairpin... most cars can NOT put full power right there without spinning/sliding.

(3) Weather is supposed to be great as usual. Good cold mexican been and spicy tacos. What else can you want?

(4) Wife wants to stick around until the drafting. I don't.




I'll be there at the track, albeit Friday only. I'll be taking in the sights and sounds of the street circuit. My favorite cars to glance at are the Civic Si Safety Cars. Last time I was there, there was an Accord Coupe safety car too, I think. Looking forward to seeing the TLX-GT racecar.



We got tickets for all three days. I think my daughter will go on Friday, we ourselves got to work.

It used to be much better though... in the late 90s CART was a complete hoot.

But it's hard not to spend a day drinking a couple of cold Tecates, eating some very spicy soft tacos, sitting up in a grandstand with tbe breeze coming off the ocean and watching loud cars going around and around.

HondaJet
Profile for HondaJet
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-15-2015 22:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:

We got tickets for all three days. I think my daughter will go on Friday, we ourselves got to work.

It used to be much better though... in the late 90s CART was a complete hoot.

But it's hard not to spend a day drinking a couple of cold Tecates, eating some very spicy soft tacos, sitting up in a grandstand with tbe breeze coming off the ocean and watching loud cars going around and around.



That, if you can picture that, is PARADISE! Long Beach feels a bit like Monaco. The yachts in the harbor and the great skyline as the backdrop to a street circuit.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-17-2015 15:55
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
HondaJet wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

We got tickets for all three days. I think my daughter will go on Friday, we ourselves got to work.

It used to be much better though... in the late 90s CART was a complete hoot.

But it's hard not to spend a day drinking a couple of cold Tecates, eating some very spicy soft tacos, sitting up in a grandstand with tbe breeze coming off the ocean and watching loud cars going around and around.



That, if you can picture that, is PARADISE! Long Beach feels a bit like Monaco. The yachts in the harbor and the great skyline as the backdrop to a street circuit.



Monaco without french people and french prices.

Paradise indeed.

TaSato
Profile for TaSato
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-19-2015 01:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
2015 Long Beach Qualifying

IndyCar Dallara-Chevy
Power: 700 HP
Weight: 1575 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.44 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:06.629

Indy Lights Dallara-AER
Power: 450 HP
Weight: 1400 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.32 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:12.041

USC P Corvette DP
Power: 600 HP
Weight: 2285 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.26 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:14.790

USC GT BMW Z4
Power: 490 HP
Weight: 2710 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.18 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:17.268

USC P DeltaWing Coupe
Power: 350 HP
Weight: 1200 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.29 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:17.405




http://www.indycar.com/Schedule/2015/IndyCar-Series/Long-Beach

http://www.indycar.com/Fan-Info/INDYCAR-101/The-Car-Dallara/Car-Comparisons



http://www.indylights.com/results/2015-season/round-3

http://www.nzrconsulting.com/Images/Racing%20News%20Network-052314.pdf



http://www.imsa.com/races/tequila-patron-sports-car-showcase-long-beach-0

http://www.waynetaylorracing.com/carspecs/

http://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/cars/bmw-z4-gtlm.html

http://www.deltawingracing.com/tech-specs/







EternalShadowAW
Profile for EternalShadowAW
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-19-2015 17:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Forgive me for not being in the loop, but why in the heck is Honda so slow???
TaSato
Profile for TaSato
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 01:07
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
2015 IndyCar Pole Lap

About 30 minutes later in the Firestone Fast Six, Helio Castroneves reset the record with a lap of 1:06.6294, which earned the driver of the No. 3 Auto Club of Southern California Chevrolet for Team Penske the Verizon P1 Award.

The track record at the 1.968-mile configuration, which was implemented in 2000, had been held by Sebastien Bourdais at 1:06.886. That was in 2006, and he went on to win the race.

"The team worked really hard because we changed everything in the car last night, so congratulations to them," said Castroneves, who will seek to claim his 30th career victory. "It was not pretty last night, but it proved that we were able to keep pushing. When you get the pole position with the teammates I have it's actually pretty cool. The car is awesome so we have to keep pushing."

http://www.indycar.com/News/2015/04/4-18-Castroneves-earns-Verizon-P1-Award-for-Long-Beach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfitfDTtJB4





TaSato
Profile for TaSato
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 01:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Fast Racecars from the past

Long Beach Qualifying

2008 Champ Car Panoz DP01-Cosworth XFE
Power: 750 HP
Weight: 1565 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.48 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:06.902

2008 ALMS P2 Porsche RS Spyder
Power: 503 HP
Weight: 1765 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.28 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:11.330

2007 Atlantic Swift 016a-Cosworth
Power: 300 HP
Weight: 1275 lb
Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.24 HP/lb
Lap Time: 1:15.724


http://www.gplb.com/statistics/#3

http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/champcar-long-beach-justin-wilson-saturday-report/

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no44.html

http://www.cosworth.com/products/racing-engines/xf-series/



http://www.automobilsport.com/race-categories--24,11271,Long-Beach-Saturdays-Qualifying-results,news.htm

http://www.supercars.net/cars/3578.html

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/2008/top-2008-Porsche-RS-Spyder.htm

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2008/the_way_it_is_no152.html



http://www.automobilsport.com/race-categories--24,25706,Raphael-Matos-secures-fifth-career-Atlantic-pole-position,news.htm

http://www.condormotorsports.com/atlantic_car.php

http://www.conceptcarz.com/z19109/Swift-016a.aspx

http://thinkfastbook.com/samples.php









Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 10:32
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
EternalShadowAW wrote:
Forgive me for not being in the loop, but why in the heck is Honda so slow???


This is the short answer on the Indycar side.

1) Chevy has all the best teams/drivers.
2) This season, Chevy and Honda were permitted to make body modifications. Honda concentrated on the Oval "kit" and the road course kit was an afterthought. So Honda is betting big on winning Indy.

On the IMSA said, Honda has only one team, and it is running a LMP2 car. The other cars are DPs, which are heavier but have more horsepower. That wins races.

Memo60
Profile for Memo60
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 13:37
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Bullwinkle, you think that they have answer to Chevy soon? I read that the Honda Kit is more complicated than Chevy to set up, what you think about that?
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 14:06
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
OK, time for a weekend at the Beach. This year we got seats high up on the same stand: Between the hairpin and the entry to the pits. Being higher up you can see the cars in the last three turns as well.

(1) We'll see if the Honda Kabuki Aero Package works as expected. My personal belief is that it's designed to shed all kinds of little parts when a Chevy is following, hence forcing the latter to perform Kabuki lest they commit Seppuku.

(2) It's good to see Real Time Racing back. With their AWD, it will be VERY interesting what line they take through the last turns and the hairpin... also how they grab existing the hairpin... most cars can NOT put full power right there without spinning/sliding.

(3) Weather is supposed to be great as usual. Good cold mexican been and spicy tacos. What else can you want?

(4) Wife wants to stick around until the drafting. I don't.



Good and Bad.

Bad:

1) Honda's Indycars seem slower than Chevy's... I don't know if it's the cars, the aero or the fact that the best teams and drivers are on the Chevy side this time around. Honda did a 4,7,8,9 which was actually better than I expected.

2) NASCAR has KILLED IMSA. Most BORING race of my life. It was sad seeing the LMPs slower than the road going cars and the Daytona Prototypes look to me like a race car a 14 year old would draw. No HPD this year. This is sad because last year the race was between the HPDs and the Mazdas, this year the two Mazdas were the slowest of all cars.

3) More on NASCAR... the standing start is frickin' dangerous. Having two groups of cars starting in two tiers but with all cars in NASCAR like set up is STUPID.... an accident waiting to happen on cars that are not designed to bump in a pretty narrow race track... but then NASCAR IS S T U P I D...

4) More on NASCAR... they better take a look at PWC... that WAS interesting.

5) PWC crew at Long Beach... better get TWO road crews and four guys on that damn tow truck. There's no way a single guy in a flat bed tow truck is gonna get a broken down Benz with one inch of ground clearance on that flat bed in anything under 5 minutes.... S T U P I D...

6) PWC.. maybe too many cars for such a track? Also, don't stop the race on the clock with a yellow flag... Let it end on the last lap even if the race runs to +50 seconds.

7) King Taco's HOT SAUCE... Damn. I forgot how hot their hot sauce is. Pure heat that burns your lips.

8) White trash in the audience behind us. I mean, why do people spend 80 bucks a day to come up to the stands, get drunk, talk about their bitch friends (the three women behind us) while their men behing them yelled at everything... all along IGNORING the race? I mean, if you're gonna get drunk and gossip, do you have to spend 80 bucks to get a reserved seat at a race? I thought such people were made up for the Springer Show.

9) Drafting... boring, no reserved seats and a young crowd made up mostly of idiots, dolts, creeps and sluts.

10) No fly by by an USAF or Navy jet. I guess Obola's DOD doesn't want to waste money. Fool. So much for tradition.

Good:

1) Engine sounds.... the Honda Indy motor has a higher pitch at WOT/Redline and it seems to wind up faster ( by listening coming out of the hairpin and shifting by the entry to the pits). The Chevys have a deeper, more guttural sound. It reminds me of the GSR's VTEC which went nuts on the top.

2) The Indycar race was really FAST and all the cars were running to the end. Most cars were in the same lap with the leader. Excellent drivers all around and no real damage from the Kabuki air wings... (lots of them in the Hondas). Unfortunately for the Honda teams, Sato did not take one for the team and blow it up seven laps to go... that would have created the yellow flag that Honda needed to get the teams all crunched up again.

3) PWC, the TLXs sound good. Pretty quick around the hairpin.

4) PWC, all and all this was the most satisfying race, even if it had TONS of yellows. The pile up at the hairpin with five cars all jammed together and like 15 more all around was the most AWESOME I've ever seen at LB. Bravo... in another less severe pileup Cunnigham lost some rear body work but in true form he kept going (fast) and made it up to 9th... I think he started at 22nd?

5) PWC.... looks like it inherited the cars that NASCAR/IMSA got rid of. It was really FUN, FUN... even the Bentley's look, well they looked very retro, very much the Bentley liine. Cadillac, Bimmers, Audis, Ferrari, Astons, McLaren, Viper, Acura, Ford, Kia, Chevy, Benzes, Porsches, GTRs, Corvettes ( I think ).. 30+ cars all in all, how can you not like that?

6) PWC: The most complete, most competitive series around with just about every manufacturer from NA, Japan and Europe.

6) The drafting "demonstration". This was done in between races and the cars went around the whole race track, so it was more fun... it kept going unlike that moronic "competition" of them on Saturday Night. Awesome right in front of us... the guy in the Bimmer convertible...how could he see with all the smoke in his cockpit? ;-D

7) Indycar... the cars look better this year than last. The aero packages are filling in that odd rear. Honda did go all out with wings... even the front "fenders" are made up of several wings whereas the Chevys run a more traditional single upswept wing from a low front wing. The Chevys are traditional, the Hondas are F1 like, Even though the chassis are identical the cars look very different. That's good.

Bottom line....

1) The only good day now is Sunday with the Indycars, Indylights (which are too early for us) and PWC.

2) I'm just hoping to see another class in PWC, or bring back the Touring races, for the upcoming CTR. I think a series made up of CTRs and all the hot hatches now being produced would create some of the best racing at a tight track like LB. As it now stands the field is very crowded at PWC. I figure they'd have no prolblem fielding almost 30 cars per series. If PWC had two series, RealTime could run the TLXs in the big series and the CTRs in the small series.

3) Lay off the King Taco, bring you own sandwiches. Tecate is 11 bucks for a pint which is high but we don't drink so much there so it's OK.

4) Weather was perfect, as usual.






Memo60
Profile for Memo60
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 18:25
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
This is what Robin Miller from Racer answered me about Honda is doing in Indy:


they're worried, let's leave it at that but they think they'll be better at Indianapolis

________________________________________
From: Guillermo Calvillo
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 5:28 PM
To: Robin Miller
Subject: Re: St. Pete

Hi Robin,

Just watched the LBGP, and again Honda got their butt kicked by Chevy. What the people of HPD are saying, they can a fix soon or the season is doomed?

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 18:47
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I'd think their being worried would be an understatement!! Add their lack of performance [be it aero and/or power] and the fact they have only 1 front team as well as a dearth of top line drivers, and the road back will be difficult at best! If they don't recover for at least for the Indy 500, unmitigated disaster springs to mind.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 19:03
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
sadlerau wrote:
I'd think their being worried would be an understatement!! Add their lack of performance [be it aero and/or power] and the fact they have only 1 front team as well as a dearth of top line drivers, and the road back will be difficult at best! If they don't recover for at least for the Indy 500, unmitigated disaster springs to mind.


They should kidnap Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske until they agree to take a ransom of Honda support. ;-)

Honestly, I think at this point the teams and drivers are becoming pretty important because at LB the cars didn't seem so far apart.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-20-2015 19:26
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:

No fly by by an USAF or Navy jet. I guess Obola's DOD doesn't want to waste money. Fool. So much for tradition.



Maybe Doug Hughes could have done a fly by in his Gyrocopter, but I guess he is currently under house arrest.


Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2015 10:58
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Bullwinkle wrote:
EternalShadowAW wrote:
Forgive me for not being in the loop, but why in the heck is Honda so slow???


This is the short answer on the Indycar side.

1) Chevy has all the best teams/drivers.
2) This season, Chevy and Honda were permitted to make body modifications. Honda concentrated on the Oval "kit" and the road course kit was an afterthought. So Honda is betting big on winning Indy.

On the IMSA said, Honda has only one team, and it is running a LMP2 car. The other cars are DPs, which are heavier but have more horsepower. That wins races.



The Honda cars just look twitchy. I don't know if it is a lack of rear down force or what. They seemed to have good turn-in. It may also be power delivery.

With a standard chassis, even though Chevy has the best teams and drivers, the large gap between the Honda cars and Chevy cars is most likely down to the package.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2015 14:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Dren wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:
EternalShadowAW wrote:
Forgive me for not being in the loop, but why in the heck is Honda so slow???


This is the short answer on the Indycar side.

1) Chevy has all the best teams/drivers.
2) This season, Chevy and Honda were permitted to make body modifications. Honda concentrated on the Oval "kit" and the road course kit was an afterthought. So Honda is betting big on winning Indy.

On the IMSA said, Honda has only one team, and it is running a LMP2 car. The other cars are DPs, which are heavier but have more horsepower. That wins races.



The Honda cars just look twitchy. I don't know if it is a lack of rear down force or what. They seemed to have good turn-in. It may also be power delivery.

With a standard chassis, even though Chevy has the best teams and drivers, the large gap between the Honda cars and Chevy cars is most likely down to the package.



Coming off the hairpin, the Honda cars all looked very sure footed while the Chevys all did a bit of rear side slipping.

BTW, the TLXs were glued... must be that AWD.

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2015 15:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Memo60 wrote:
Bullwinkle, you think that they have answer to Chevy soon? I read that the Honda Kit is more complicated than Chevy to set up, what you think about that?


short answer: "No".

They are WAAYYY Behind Chevy now, and there is not time to develop and test a fix before Early July. The schedule is too busy to test before then.

So the first you would see any significant improvement would be Mid-Ohio in August.

Honda's fortunes on Ovals will be known at the Indy Open Test in Early May. If Honda is competitive there, they will also be competitive at Fontana, Texas and Pocono.

IF Honda does not do well at the test, it will be dismal.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2015 20:21
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:

Coming off the hairpin, the Honda cars all looked very sure footed while the Chevys all did a bit of rear side slipping.



Could be that the Honda motor is not as powerful [or has a different power band] as the Chevy......

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 11:20
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
sadlerau wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Coming off the hairpin, the Honda cars all looked very sure footed while the Chevys all did a bit of rear side slipping.



Could be that the Honda motor is not as powerful [or has a different power band] as the Chevy......



Since last season, the Honda has reportedly gotten better fuel mileage, has more low end grunt and less top end HP than the Chevy. It also reportedly runs cooler.

As I understand it, the Honda Indycar Speedway Aerokit was designed to take advantage of the ability to run cooler by closing off some of the cooling air inlets as well as diverting some air to the diffusers through the air inlets.

If this works, and Chevy has not done something similar, it would be a significant advantage at a race like the Indy 500. Honda would then have a car with the same or more downforce, less drag and better mileage.

This is a link to my comments about Long Beach in the Motorsports section:

http://motorsports.vtec.net/blog/62/hondas-only-hope-indycar-road-courses-pray-rain/#.VTe7zqYY_sI

A warning: It's bleak.

Memo60
Profile for Memo60
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 11:46
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Thank you for the articule, very interesting I hope HPD doesn't quit right after the end of the season, and it will be surprise if they fired Wirth.

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 12:47
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Memo60 wrote:
Thank you for the articule, very interesting I hope HPD doesn't quit right after the end of the season, and it will be surprise if they fired Wirth.



If Honda quits, it would likely be announced right before or right after the Indy 500.

As for Wirth, the last two projects he has done for HPD (the LMP2 car and the Indycar aerokit), have been total flops and have not delivered what he promised they would deliver. And they have harmed HPD's reputation in the sports car and Indycar markets.

Why wouldn't they fire him and team up with another designer or design/production team? There are plenty of them out there. Riley comes to mind.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 13:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
sadlerau wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Coming off the hairpin, the Honda cars all looked very sure footed while the Chevys all did a bit of rear side slipping.



Could be that the Honda motor is not as powerful [or has a different power band] as the Chevy......



I don't know, I wasn't timing them but the Hondas and Chevys seemed to be equally fast... the only thing that I could I did not was the sound... the Chevys just kept up their guttural sound up to redline, while the Hondas reminded me of the VTEC in the old Prelude... it went from guttural to a mechanical higher frequency sound.

Althought, I still prefer the motorcycle like sound of the old CART engines in the 90s. I swear you could hear the valvetrains working in those engines.

Oh wait.. something else.... there's this little bump just midway between the exit of the hairpin and the entry to to the pits. I do recall that cars would bounce if they hit it, but the Hondas seemed to bounce more: the Chevys would do it once or twice while the Hondas would bounce several times.



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 14:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Bullwinkle wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Coming off the hairpin, the Honda cars all looked very sure footed while the Chevys all did a bit of rear side slipping.



Could be that the Honda motor is not as powerful [or has a different power band] as the Chevy......



Since last season, the Honda has reportedly gotten better fuel mileage, has more low end grunt and less top end HP than the Chevy. It also reportedly runs cooler.

As I understand it, the Honda Indycar Speedway Aerokit was designed to take advantage of the ability to run cooler by closing off some of the cooling air inlets as well as diverting some air to the diffusers through the air inlets.

If this works, and Chevy has not done something similar, it would be a significant advantage at a race like the Indy 500. Honda would then have a car with the same or more downforce, less drag and better mileage.

This is a link to my comments about Long Beach in the Motorsports section:

http://motorsports.vtec.net/blog/62/hondas-only-hope-indycar-road-courses-pray-rain/#.VTe7zqYY_sI

A warning: It's bleak.



I don't think HPD will quit. But, they really need to rethink how they do things.

When you do something revolutionary you MUST test in the real world.

LB... as I noted, there were no real yellows so the whole Indy race was run at an average speed of over 90mph... I think it was the fastest ever run. So the Chevys just ran away with it..

But look up... the TLX seems to be doing good, finally. Perhaps we might see two TLXs and two CTRs next year?

Memo60
Profile for Memo60
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 16:17
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I asked Marshall Pruett about if he things that HPD will quit at the end of season if things go bad and about firing Wirth, he told me HPD will not quit and Wirth maybe will get fired, and he said that Honda should do better in natural terrain road course.
Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 16:44
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Coming off the hairpin, the Honda cars all looked very sure footed while the Chevys all did a bit of rear side slipping.



Could be that the Honda motor is not as powerful [or has a different power band] as the Chevy......



I don't know, I wasn't timing them but the Hondas and Chevys seemed to be equally fast... the only thing that I could I did not was the sound... the Chevys just kept up their guttural sound up to redline, while the Hondas reminded me of the VTEC in the old Prelude... it went from guttural to a mechanical higher frequency sound.

Althought, I still prefer the motorcycle like sound of the old CART engines in the 90s. I swear you could hear the valvetrains working in those engines.

Oh wait.. something else.... there's this little bump just midway between the exit of the hairpin and the entry to to the pits. I do recall that cars would bounce if they hit it, but the Hondas seemed to bounce more: the Chevys would do it once or twice while the Hondas would bounce several times.





As far as the Hondas and Chevys being equally fast. The Fastest Honda was about half a second per lap slower than the fastest Hondas. When you are watching in person, you can't perceive that.

The fact is that the fastest lap by a Honda was by Takuma Sato. And ALL THE CHEVY's had at least one lap faster than that.

You comment about "bouncing" is a symptom of Honda's problem. For some reason the Chevy Aerokit "plants" the rear better than the Honda. In order to compensate, the Honda's have to run really hard springs and shocks. This is bad on a road street course, when you want the suspension to be more compliant.

But when the Hondas soften the suspension, they get really unstable.

Memo60
Profile for Memo60
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 16:51
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Here is Marshall Pruett is the problem with Honda powered cars, same things that Bullwinkle said.

ROOT CAUSE

If there was a viral video among Honda drivers on Saturday, it was the on-board footage from Helio Castroneves' record-setting lap that earned the Chevy-powered Team Penske driver pole position. Honda's best pilots marveled at the flowing composure seen from HCN's in-car camera; his hands were steady and deliberate; his car was poised and responsive at all times. As many Honda drivers remarked, their on-board footage was the polar opposite – it looked like they were trying to arm-wrestle an octopus.
Their hands were a blur of motion dealing with oversteer or understeer in the corners. Dabs of throttle only exacerbated their problems, and compared to Helio's effortless speed, Honda's finest described their qualifying performances in terms usually reserved for a boxing match.
As we've chronicled since pre-season testing began, the advantage held by Chevy has been decisive, and with three races now in the books, it's clear that one manufacturer is beating the other on a routine basis. The reasons for Chevy's dominance, however, aren't as obvious. And it isn't because one engine is more powerful than the other – it's all about aerodynamics.
Honda's shortcomings are due to something called "pitch sensitivity," which we began documenting at Spring Training, and continues to serve as the most formidable opponent Honda drivers are facing. On bumpy, low-grip street circuits like St. Pete, Long Beach, Detroit, and Toronto, it's an even bigger problem, and as Honda drivers will tell you, it's also casts them into a vicious circle.
MP Long Beach 2015 67

MP Long Beach 2015 62
In basic terms, pitch sensitivity is a phenomenon where too much downforce is gained or lost under braking or acceleration – as the car pitches forward or backward. Drivers need a car to be stable and predictable under braking, again when they turn into a corner, and also when they apply the throttle to leave.
If you think of a car like a rocking horse on the approach to a corner, it comes in relatively level, then rocks forward – the nose dives down and the rear hikes up – under braking. Once the brakes are released, it rocks back to something close to level, and when the throttle is applied, the rear squats down and the nose rises. Level, down, level, up. It also leans to one side, depending on whether the corner goes left or right, as the chassis tilts and returns to level.
Throughout that entire process, a driver is waiting for the front and rear tires to feel firmly planted – for the chassis to feel well balanced – in order to drive the car hard into the braking zone, lift, turn, and power out with authority. If the car handles all of those rocking motions in a smooth, controlled manner – just as Helio's car did in qualifying – you'll have a happy and fast driver.
If a leading Chevy driver has any aero kit complaints, I've yet to hear them. Pitch sensitivity, according to one of Chevy's biggest weapons, isn't a concern. The Honda drivers aren't as lucky.
They continually describe a lack of stability – poor balance – from the moment they enter a braking zone or corner, to the time they exit on the other side. With pitch sensitivity, and the sudden loss or gain of downforce when Honda's aero kit faces those routine rocking motions, it makes it almost impossible to do the same brake-lift-turn-power dance with Chevy-like conviction.
"Pitch sensitivity makes the car more difficult to drive," said Graham Rahal. "Even if you need to do a little lift, it wants to spin around like a top at times. That's what we're working really hard to cure."
In medium- or high-speed corners where downforce is an integral part of going fast, pitch sensitivity can cause downforce changes that feel like the road beneath the car has gone from tarmac to ice and back to tarmac. It might even go back to ice for a second time. This all takes place in a few seconds.
As Honda drivers are forced to wait for their cars to settle down in the corners – or as they work to keep their cars from swapping ends – the Chevy drivers gain invaluable fractions of a second. Over the course of a lap, those tiny gains in cornering speed and earlier acceleration add up to the separation we've seen between both camps in lap times and race results.
MP Long Beach 2015 48
HONDA'S VICIOUS CIRCLE

Pitch sensitivity isn't the only issue Honda teams are facing, but it is, without a doubt, the primary reason behind their struggles. The vicious circle is found in the most common method used to improve the problem. To reduce the rocking and tilting motions that expose a pitch-sensitive aero design, teams traditionally increase the spring rates on each corner of the car.
If, for example, a team would normally use 1000-pound spring rates at the front of the car and 700-pound springs at the back, they might go up to 1400s and 1000s – making it harder for the chassis to compress the springs – to reduce pitch sensitivity.
With stiffer springs reducing the rocking and tilting while braking, turning, and accelerating, the car's aerodynamics are more stable and predictable.
While that method of partially – or mostly – curing pitch sensitivity works on road courses with smooth track surfaces, it's not an option for bumpy, gripless street circuits like Long Beach. A stiffly sprung car on a street course takes away the tire's ability to absorb the bumps; the car drives like a skateboard with no suspension, skipping and bouncing over the smallest surface imperfections. The moment that starts to happen, lap times get slower and slower.
To reduce pitch sensitivity last weekend, Honda teams would have had to use stiffer springs...which would have made the car even more devilish to drive. It's an unfriendly Catch-22, and with Detroit's double-header on the horizon and one more street race after that in Canada, I'm guessing Honda teams can't wait to get them out of the way.
Smoother road courses like Barber, the GP of Indy, Mid-Ohio, and Sonoma – places where they can use stiffer springs to combat pitch sensitivity – represent the best chances for Honda to deliver stronger finishes.

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Long Beach Grand Prix    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2015 16:56
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Memo60 wrote:
I asked Marshall Pruett about if he things that HPD will quit at the end of season if things go bad and about firing Wirth, he told me HPD will not quit and Wirth maybe will get fired, and he said that Honda should do better in natural terrain road course.


I hope he's right on both counts. There is a theory that the fact that Indycar took away the Chevy "rabbit ears" on their front wings (supposedly for safety reasons) will hurt their performance on the fast sweeping road course. And that the smooth surface won't hurt the rear end of the Hondas (see bouncing comment above).

But there were only a couple Hondas in the top ten during the dry practices at NOLA. Same for the test at Barber. I just don't believe that the loss of those things is going to make much difference. I will believe it when I see qualifying.

I expect that none of the Hondas will make the fast six in qualifying, and that unless something surprising happens Chevy will get at least 7 of the top ten in the race.

As for Honda leaving, we should know one way or another before June 1. It won't drag out until the end of the season.


 
Thread Page - [1] 2
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
29 mobile: 0