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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Honda's future in Europe

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EuroGreg
Profile for EuroGreg
Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-19-2015 07:22
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It seems that we have exciting times ahead. The new CR-Z rumour is there in Europe, and it looks it will be built on the new global Civic platform. But how doed it affect the current EU 9G Civic? It's normal lifecycle shall extend to 2018, and the Type R has just been released, so can we have the old Civic until 2018 and the new Civic based CR-Z together, or can we count on a new Civic at the same time as in the US and the Type R will be a unique model? And what about the s2000 replacement in Europe?




KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-19-2015 13:31
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IMHO there is very little to no future for Honda in Europe, the reasons have been discussed in dozens of threads. Smallest and worst lineup worldwide, no advertising, ignorant to the customer base, ignorant to dealers, acidic business climate for their own employees and finally too expensive for what they offer.

Unless they'll have some real success in the mass market, I can see the lights going out in Swindon within the next 2 years.

Doesn't bother me though, for Honda Japan is doing pretty fine.

Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-20-2015 05:30
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Well if one production line gets upgraded while the other continues then bagpuss may hang around for a few years longer.

Then on that old line they'll have maybe 70k a year combined crv and bagpuss output, and 30k on the new line of the new hatchback. Krass underutilised.
Which isn't something Honda would really like to do for long.

So it would give them alot of reasons to move all on the new plank.
Especially as these aren't cars with a lot of profit on them.



Pakos M
Profile for Pakos M
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 07:57
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Honda's approach to EU market is totally wrong. Mini cooper alone sells more vehicles.
Unfortunately Honda does not learn and keeps branding cars that don't stand a chance sales wise like the CTR and the CRZ. What a waste of resources.

Europeans like small SUVs and small niche vehicles like Tiguan, Nissan QQ-Juke, Mini and 500 in all flavours, Aygo etc.
Honda should tackle the market with HRV and N-one (with multiple versions like Mini) equipped with automatic downsized turbocharged petrol and diesel engines.

For sportscars bring the NSX and S1000 and something between those two with Acura nameplates.

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 08:26
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According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 13:53
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Fan Koni wrote:
Well if one production line gets upgraded while the other continues then bagpuss may hang around for a few years longer.

Then on that old line they'll have maybe 70k a year combined crv and bagpuss output, and 30k on the new line of the new hatchback. Krass underutilised.
Which isn't something Honda would really like to do for long.

So it would give them alot of reasons to move all on the new plank.
Especially as these aren't cars with a lot of profit on them.





The way the Euro and the Pound Sterling are going, I'd guess the future of HoE is to build cars for the UK and export them to NA.

The Frenchies and Krauts can do their own thing.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 14:15
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KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.




JESUS! What a bunch of wimpy mobiles.

If I had to get a truck, this is what I'd get, with the turbo diesel motor... An F250 crew cab, long bed, 4WD. It's just about 22 feet long bumper to bumper and a wheel base of over 14 feet.

Laugh all you want, but on the Interstate with the turbo diesel this baby will cruise all day long very comfortably at 75 mph.

And if you need to tow your house, it might make a start because it will pull 14,000 lbs. (I would avoid the F350 because it has the full on truck front suspension even though as a duelie it can pull 19,000 lbs, which is likely the weight of all the GNP of Greece for one week. )








superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 14:40
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TonyEX wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.




JESUS! What a bunch of wimpy mobiles.

If I had to get a truck, this is what I'd get, with the turbo diesel motor... An F250 crew cab, long bed, 4WD. It's just about 22 feet long bumper to bumper and a wheel base of over 14 feet.

Laugh all you want, but on the Interstate with the turbo diesel this baby will cruise all day long very comfortably at 75 mph.

And if you need to tow your house, it might make a start because it will pull 14,000 lbs. (I would avoid the F350 because it has the full on truck front suspension even though as a duelie it can pull 19,000 lbs, which is likely the weight of all the GNP of Greece for one week. )






The International CXT 2004-08 pickup makes the Ford look a little puny.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 14:58
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superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.




JESUS! What a bunch of wimpy mobiles.

If I had to get a truck, this is what I'd get, with the turbo diesel motor... An F250 crew cab, long bed, 4WD. It's just about 22 feet long bumper to bumper and a wheel base of over 14 feet.

Laugh all you want, but on the Interstate with the turbo diesel this baby will cruise all day long very comfortably at 75 mph.

And if you need to tow your house, it might make a start because it will pull 14,000 lbs. (I would avoid the F350 because it has the full on truck front suspension even though as a duelie it can pull 19,000 lbs, which is likely the weight of all the GNP of Greece for one week. )






The International CXT 2004-08 pickup makes the Ford look a little puny.




I don't want a duelie!

Besides, I think if I got that parked in front of my House the Homeowners Assoc might find some rule that I broke.

DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 16:12
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Get The real thing


superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2015 16:46
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Tony, this old Sanford & Sons truck was in our HOA for a while and the only way for them to start is was jump starting.




KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2015 06:14
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TonyEX wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.




JESUS! What a bunch of wimpy mobiles.

If I had to get a truck, this is what I'd get, with the turbo diesel motor... An F250 crew cab, long bed, 4WD. It's just about 22 feet long bumper to bumper and a wheel base of over 14 feet.

Laugh all you want, but on the Interstate with the turbo diesel this baby will cruise all day long very comfortably at 75 mph.

And if you need to tow your house, it might make a start because it will pull 14,000 lbs. (I would avoid the F350 because it has the full on truck front suspension even though as a duelie it can pull 19,000 lbs, which is likely the weight of all the GNP of Greece for one week. )






Nice beginners car. There is one thing you didn't know about Europe yet, which I'd like to share with you.

Over here, you have to drive like a pro :D

Pakos M
Profile for Pakos M
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2015 08:03
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http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

The Germans since 2000 have almost double their sales figures in Europe. How have they achieved this? It is actually very simple, while all of the manufacturers are paying governments taxes for selling their vehicles/products the Germans always approach local authorities and bribe them to avoid taxation. This is standard operating procedure as all of their companies keep a small budget for this kind of manipulation. The result is that their products end up much cheaper than the competition ones. Of course this does not take place to all EU countries only to those that corruption is high, that is why we see such price diffs. Lets see a comparison with the monetary independent UK as the benchmark:

UK prices:
Leon Cupra 27.5K - GT86 22.5K - Megane Sport 25.9K

Corrupted EU country prices:
Leon Cupra 25.9K - GT86 35.9K - Megane Sport 38.5K

They have this policy with all their companies and the funny thing is that the rest of EU manufacturers like Italy or France don't do anything about it. It is a strange union the EU!

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2015 08:33
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I can't comment on the corruption issue only from german manufacturers. Actually in Brussels there is a massive car-lobby from Germany, France and Italy dictating the EU's bullshit Co2 policy, thus bearing the dieseasel idiocy, as well as the downsizing-turbo-AIDS which has broadly infected the local and overseas manufacturers.

A definite german approach is to buy up all competitors like Volkswagen did with SEAT and Skoda. Another part are paid motor journalists and coordinated media-propaganda. It worked well in 1930s.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2015 09:53
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TonyEX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.




JESUS! What a bunch of wimpy mobiles.

If I had to get a truck, this is what I'd get, with the turbo diesel motor... An F250 crew cab, long bed, 4WD. It's just about 22 feet long bumper to bumper and a wheel base of over 14 feet.

Laugh all you want, but on the Interstate with the turbo diesel this baby will cruise all day long very comfortably at 75 mph.

And if you need to tow your house, it might make a start because it will pull 14,000 lbs. (I would avoid the F350 because it has the full on truck front suspension even though as a duelie it can pull 19,000 lbs, which is likely the weight of all the GNP of Greece for one week. )






The International CXT 2004-08 pickup makes the Ford look a little puny.




I don't want a duelie!

Besides, I think if I got that parked in front of my House the Homeowners Assoc might find some rule that I broke.



I'm kind of tempted to get something like that (or a Brabus Unimog) as an oblique comment at all these Office Cowboys in their CasnnCarries and Hang Overs and shi'.

Unfortunately in Europe (where we have towns older than last week - and shame on Tony's memory for forgetting so quickly) those Internationals and stuff would get wedged between the buildings on opposite sides of the road and be useless.


Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2015 10:03
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KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.



That's not quite the whole story though, is it?

The D-segment has virtually disappeared and C/D SUVs have eaten their lunch and increasingly, B/C SUVs are eating the non-premium C-segment.

Indeed, Honda is doing just one thing sort of right this decade with the belated HR-V coming late in the year.

But I agree; unless Honda comes up with some bloody miraculous range of vehicles whose turbos & DCTs and FREDs are more reliable than Eurotrash, they are finished over here.

PS - interesting stuff in March ANE mag from Nissinfinault-Benz Group about how Yerpeans either cross-shop Jap Crap or cross-shop Eurotrash, but ne'er the twain shall meet.

I guess there's some truth in that, except I've tended to think Nissans have become PoS too, since they've been based on Renault merde.


KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2015 19:11
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Nick GravesX wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.



That's not quite the whole story though, is it?

The D-segment has virtually disappeared and C/D SUVs have eaten their lunch and increasingly, B/C SUVs are eating the non-premium C-segment.

Indeed, Honda is doing just one thing sort of right this decade with the belated HR-V coming late in the year.

But I agree; unless Honda comes up with some bloody miraculous range of vehicles whose turbos & DCTs and FREDs are more reliable than Eurotrash, they are finished over here.

PS - interesting stuff in March ANE mag from Nissinfinault-Benz Group about how Yerpeans either cross-shop Jap Crap or cross-shop Eurotrash, but ne'er the twain shall meet.

I guess there's some truth in that, except I've tended to think Nissans have become PoS too, since they've been based on Renault merde.




I don't see this happening - the whole luxury car debatte is artificial and supported by some car journalists. When you're looking into the car sales data of each individual country (Germany, UK, France), you'll notice that always the domestic brands are the strongest. Foreign manufacturers have a chance getting into the top ten if they either also produce in this country or their product is praised and very popular like Volkswagen Golf or Nissan Qashqai.

What does this mean for Honda? It means that they only have real market chances in UK (where they produce). The leaders there are Ford Fiesta, Ford Focus and Vauxhall Corsa. Link

Finally as for that luxury/premium bla bla from journalists. The only market with mentionable numbers of these cars is Germany. You know why it's that way though - Over 60% of German car sales are company cars. Cars that get sold with huge discounts so that Volkswagen barely can make a profit from them. Cars that are used and sold not later than 3 years after - as their warranty has ran out and the build in shit from turbocharger to DCT transmission is about to pop.

That's the time for credulous private buyers to get an used "premium car". And that's why they are making advertisals like this for.

And in case you wonder whether my country is filled with sick, ignorant people without any form of self-regard - you're right. They've voted "das Merkel" three times and I'm sure they'll vote her again a fourth, fifth and sixth time if they'll get the chance to ;)

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2015 23:45
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Nick GravesX wrote:
...
I'm kind of tempted to get something like that (or a Brabus Unimog) as an oblique comment at all these Office Cowboys in their CasnnCarries and Hang Overs and shi'.

Unfortunately in Europe (where we have towns older than last week - and shame on Tony's memory for forgetting so quickly) those Internationals and stuff would get wedged between the buildings on opposite sides of the road and be useless.






Heck, in Europe you can get wedged when two mini cars attempt to use the same street!

But then you do it the German Way... with a squadron of Panzer blasting the way through. The Frogs learned that the hard way. Not often enough.

But, you got to admit that turbo diesel F250 Crew Cab Long Bed is tempting. It's got like 800++ ft lbs of torque. You could build yourself a castle in Wales with that towing capacity.

Oh, btw, when Julis Caesar finally decided to do something about the druid in Anglia, Barcelona was a real city with significant wine making facilities ( a true sign of civilization )... so even though you're likely a Saxon or Ostrogoth descendant, don't get too emotional about how old Anglia is.

There are people in Tarragona living in buildings around the Cathedral that were built before the Saxons knew how to sail the Channel.

I just think that an F250 with a gun rack would be a nice place to display my AR15.

There. I said it... are you jealous now? Can you guys even own nice guns like that in the UK anymore... tiny cars, tiny guns.

Booom!




TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 00:05
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A garage like that in illegal in the US. He doesn't have a fire door.

Have you ever driven like this?

Northbound San Diego (the 405) just south of the interchange with the Santa Monica (the 10). Just about in Culver City and north of LAX. Check out the transition road from the West 10 to the South 405 at the top of the picture... Even the carpool lanes are a parking lot. At this spot, the NB 405 narrows to ten lanes but opens up south and north to 14 lanes... and it's still a butt f@##k to deal with.



And, this is not by far the worst.

I tried to find a shot of the 55 (SR55) but that's not fair. That one is a real parking lot. The 405 moves sometimes.

And then you got the East LA Interchange, the Harbor Fwy, the Ventura (101) up the Valley, etc, etc...

We are professionals down here. Jeez!





FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 01:56
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TonyEX wrote:

We are professionals down here. Jeez!



Plenty of space in between those lanes... why not use them ? :p



chavv
Profile for chavv
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 04:21
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Things Honda needs to do in Europe are really simple

Every model should have choice of at least 2 gasoline engine and at least 1 diesel
All of these should have AT as option (or MT)
Be price competitive.
When base-Jazz is 3000k euro more expensive than base Fabia/Yaris you have problem. Ditto when Civic is way more expensive than Auris/Octavia/Mazda3/Focus
Mid-class is dissapearing, its either low-end (Dacia, Skoda) or luxury. Everything in-between is losing market share.

Marketing.

Somehow Toyota and Nissan and Mazda are surviving in EU. Stop writing the shit that noone buys Japan cars. Excuses...

BG
Profile for BG
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 05:47
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Honda's seem more expensive because they have a lot of added extra's from the factory. If they did a base model, no toys, it would be priced similarly to the competition, and as we all know, once you start specifying the features you want, the price goes up enormously.

chavv
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Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 06:28
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thats right, but this doesn't change the problem.
Many people see "base" price and never come back.
Having 3 fixed trim levels withalmost nothing available as option is insane.

BG
Profile for BG
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 07:39
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There are always options, my Accord went from standard ride height to a more surefooted 2" lower, with optional 18's and bluetooth phone kit, but that where I stopped, and that was in 2008.

http://www.honda-access.com/268/en/intro.jsp

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 07:57
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KaizenDo wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
According to car sales statistic, compact and superminis are the most popular vehicles in Europe. SUVs are a sidenote with the Qashqai.

1 Volkswagen Golf
2 Ford Fiesta
3 Renault Clio
4 Volkswagen Polo
5 Opel / Vauxhall Corsa
6 Ford Focus
7 Peugeot 208
8 Skoda Octavia
9 Nissan Qashqai
10 Audi A3
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-models/

Here's a listing on Europes marketshare by car manufacturer
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-brands-manufacturers/

And here finally a listing of individual nations car sales
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2014-full-year-europe-car-sales-eu-country/

Considering Honda's non existant market activities within the biggest european market, it makes sense the are in free fall.

One thing that europeans like is a great variety of engine options and automatics for Diseasel engines.



That's not quite the whole story though, is it?

The D-segment has virtually disappeared and C/D SUVs have eaten their lunch and increasingly, B/C SUVs are eating the non-premium C-segment.

Indeed, Honda is doing just one thing sort of right this decade with the belated HR-V coming late in the year.

But I agree; unless Honda comes up with some bloody miraculous range of vehicles whose turbos & DCTs and FREDs are more reliable than Eurotrash, they are finished over here.

PS - interesting stuff in March ANE mag from Nissinfinault-Benz Group about how Yerpeans either cross-shop Jap Crap or cross-shop Eurotrash, but ne'er the twain shall meet.

I guess there's some truth in that, except I've tended to think Nissans have become PoS too, since they've been based on Renault merde.




I don't see this happening - the whole luxury car debatte is artificial and supported by some car journalists. When you're looking into the car sales data of each individual country (Germany, UK, France), you'll notice that always the domestic brands are the strongest. Foreign manufacturers have a chance getting into the top ten if they either also produce in this country or their product is praised and very popular like Volkswagen Golf or Nissan Qashqai.

What does this mean for Honda? It means that they only have real market chances in UK (where they produce). The leaders there are Ford Fiesta, Ford Focus and Vauxhall Corsa. Link

Finally as for that luxury/premium bla bla from journalists. The only market with mentionable numbers of these cars is Germany. You know why it's that way though - Over 60% of German car sales are company cars. Cars that get sold with huge discounts so that Volkswagen barely can make a profit from them. Cars that are used and sold not later than 3 years after - as their warranty has ran out and the build in shit from turbocharger to DCT transmission is about to pop.

That's the time for credulous private buyers to get an used "premium car". And that's why they are making advertisals like this for.

And in case you wonder whether my country is filled with sick, ignorant people without any form of self-regard - you're right. They've voted "das Merkel" three times and I'm sure they'll vote her again a fourth, fifth and sixth time if they'll get the chance to ;)



That's an interesting perspective, but it ignores that there IS growth (however Ponzi) in the premium sectors and the premiums actually make money. Or at least appear to.

But aside from the Anglo-Japanese and the Vages, all middle-market manufacturers are losing money in Europe. That is not really the market's fault per se, more that their Statist polyingticiunts won't allow them to close the massive overcapacity they've built. I'd not be entirely surprised if Opel's Bochum plant is re-opened by Foton,either.

It's ironic that Nissan & Toyota are seemingly ahead on model range and profits, whereas Honda as devolved into Britisch Elend all over again. Without the quality issues or communist infiltrators of course. Bagpuss and the Allegro separated at birth?



Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 08:06
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TonyEX wrote:
A garage like that in illegal in the US. He doesn't have a fire door.

Have you ever driven like this?

Northbound San Diego (the 405) just south of the interchange with the Santa Monica (the 10). Just about in Culver City and north of LAX. Check out the transition road from the West 10 to the South 405 at the top of the picture... Even the carpool lanes are a parking lot. At this spot, the NB 405 narrows to ten lanes but opens up south and north to 14 lanes... and it's still a butt f@##k to deal with.



And, this is not by far the worst.

I tried to find a shot of the 55 (SR55) but that's not fair. That one is a real parking lot. The 405 moves sometimes.

And then you got the East LA Interchange, the Harbor Fwy, the Ventura (101) up the Valley, etc, etc...

We are professionals down here. Jeez!


Tony, it's funny that my first driving in LA, during the recent holidays, was from LAX to Santa Monica via the 405 and the exit shown in your photo. Granted, it was the Monday between the holidays but at 10a there was almost no traffic. After a week of driving in LA my conclusion was the traffic problems you speak of are caused by your fellow residents driving too fast. Reaction times add up, slow-downs become full stops, the list goes on. When I drive 75mph in the far right lane to keep from blocking traffic I know folks either go full speed ahead or they are stationary for periods of time.

I had a fun time driving Mulholland but once we were in the slower portion on the north side of Beverly Hills I still had a fellow in a Lexus GS come flying up behind me and sit on the bumper of my car as I followed the cars ahead of me. I found a safe place to stop, he drove past, he took off like a maniac for about a hundred yards, and then he pulled into his driveway. It all just seemed so stupid.

I've heard horror stories about rush-hour traffic in Houston and Atlanta but I've felt my time driving in both cities was okay. I'd say rush hour volume per lane for both is comparable to what I saw in LA. The difference was no one was trying to be Evel Knevel or Joey Chitwood in the middle lane. As for Houston its own self, when you're in Texas look behind you because that's where the Ranger is going to be.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 09:22
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Grace141 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
A garage like that in illegal in the US. He doesn't have a fire door.

Have you ever driven like this?

Northbound San Diego (the 405) just south of the interchange with the Santa Monica (the 10). Just about in Culver City and north of LAX. Check out the transition road from the West 10 to the South 405 at the top of the picture... Even the carpool lanes are a parking lot. At this spot, the NB 405 narrows to ten lanes but opens up south and north to 14 lanes... and it's still a butt f@##k to deal with.



And, this is not by far the worst.

I tried to find a shot of the 55 (SR55) but that's not fair. That one is a real parking lot. The 405 moves sometimes.

And then you got the East LA Interchange, the Harbor Fwy, the Ventura (101) up the Valley, etc, etc...

We are professionals down here. Jeez!


Tony, it's funny that my first driving in LA, during the recent holidays, was from LAX to Santa Monica via the 405 and the exit shown in your photo. Granted, it was the Monday between the holidays but at 10a there was almost no traffic. After a week of driving in LA my conclusion was the traffic problems you speak of are caused by your fellow residents driving too fast. Reaction times add up, slow-downs become full stops, the list goes on. When I drive 75mph in the far right lane to keep from blocking traffic I know folks either go full speed ahead or they are stationary for periods of time.

I had a fun time driving Mulholland but once we were in the slower portion on the north side of Beverly Hills I still had a fellow in a Lexus GS come flying up behind me and sit on the bumper of my car as I followed the cars ahead of me. I found a safe place to stop, he drove past, he took off like a maniac for about a hundred yards, and then he pulled into his driveway. It all just seemed so stupid.

I've heard horror stories about rush-hour traffic in Houston and Atlanta but I've felt my time driving in both cities was okay. I'd say rush hour volume per lane for both is comparable to what I saw in LA. The difference was no one was trying to be Evel Knevel or Joey Chitwood in the middle lane. As for Houston its own self, when you're in Texas look behind you because that's where the Ranger is going to be.



with all this talk about LA traffic I can't help but think of one of my favorite sketches on SNL - 'The Californians'.





LA traffic is truly terrible and I can't stand driving in southern California. Yes it gets bad in ATL but it's a different level in SoCal - approaching "3rd world" bad.

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda's future in Europe    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-23-2015 16:27
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TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
...
I'm kind of tempted to get something like that (or a Brabus Unimog) as an oblique comment at all these Office Cowboys in their CasnnCarries and Hang Overs and shi'.

Unfortunately in Europe (where we have towns older than last week - and shame on Tony's memory for forgetting so quickly) those Internationals and stuff would get wedged between the buildings on opposite sides of the road and be useless.






Heck, in Europe you can get wedged when two mini cars attempt to use the same street!

But then you do it the German Way... with a squadron of Panzer blasting the way through. The Frogs learned that the hard way. Not often enough.

But, you got to admit that turbo diesel F250 Crew Cab Long Bed is tempting. It's got like 800++ ft lbs of torque. You could build yourself a castle in Wales with that towing capacity.

Oh, btw, when Julis Caesar finally decided to do something about the druid in Anglia, Barcelona was a real city with significant wine making facilities ( a true sign of civilization )... so even though you're likely a Saxon or Ostrogoth descendant, don't get too emotional about how old Anglia is.

There are people in Tarragona living in buildings around the Cathedral that were built before the Saxons knew how to sail the Channel.

I just think that an F250 with a gun rack would be a nice place to display my AR15.

There. I said it... are you jealous now? Can you guys even own nice guns like that in the UK anymore... tiny cars, tiny guns.

Booom!




Great idea. We'll get some Subarus with german sourced Linear CVT chain-belt and let 'em remember what chains and offroad abilities were made for...



 
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