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  TOV News > Acura Set to Launch More Powerful, Technologically Advanced and Luxuriously Equipped 2016 Acura ILX > > Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup

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Sasker
Profile for Sasker
No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 14:20
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There are no more manual transmissions in the entire Acura lineup, just like Lexus and Benz, but no one expects real sportiness from those brands. I thought Acura would be the last premium car company to do so.


Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 14:27
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Sasker wrote:
There are no more manual transmissions in the entire Acura lineup, just like Lexus and Benz, but no one expects real sportiness from those brands. I thought Acura would be the last premium car company to do so.



Yeah, I reflected on that yesterday when I saw our order sheet and all were 8DC and no 6MT. It's the first time in Acura history that we'll enter a model year with zero manuals.

Calgarian
Profile for Calgarian
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 14:39
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With the need to keep cost in control it appears that the manual tranny is toast. The other reality is the manual buyer has also all but disppeared. Luckily the 8 speed DCT is a great tranny.

sa3eedi
Profile for sa3eedi
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 14:51
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The manual buyer hasn't disappeared, they've just moved on from Acura seeing how they have nothing to offer them, there's no reason to compromise and accept a "great dct" transmission when other makes are offering options for the more demanding driver
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 15:06
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sa3eedi wrote:
The manual buyer hasn't disappeared, they've just moved on from Acura seeing how they have nothing to offer them, there's no reason to compromise and accept a "great dct" transmission when other makes are offering options for the more demanding driver

Yup and since Acura will not make the car they want (assumed RWD) they might as well stop chasing that buyer and compromising the entire lineup (higher production costs and order complexity). Instead, use the 'freed up' trims for more things that the mainstream customer wants. It's a sad day, for me personally since I only drive manuals, but a sound business decision professionally.

CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 18:17
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sa3eedi wrote:
The manual buyer hasn't disappeared, they've just moved on from Acura seeing how they have nothing to offer them, there's no reason to compromise and accept a "great dct" transmission when other makes are offering options for the more demanding driver


Moved to where? Very few manufacturers offer manual transmissions as the demand has diminished.

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 18:21
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I'm one of those hardy few who has long supported MTs with my wallet, buying seven MT-equipped cars to date. But I could see this coming and fully expected my current MT-equipped car to be my last.

I just don't like the notion of restricting my short list to models sporting a viable MT option. That used to be workable but now, not so much. There are too many decent models like the Audi A3 that would be taken off my list simply because of the MT matter.

Now DCTs offer impressive fuel economy and no appreciable loss of acceleration compared to MTs. They're chipping away at the significant advantages to owning an MT. In the past you got a car that was a lot more fun to drive, cost less to buy and less to maintain. And you had quite a few options. Now sticking with MTs, frankly, is just too much bother.

Sure a few diehards will stick with MTs and companies like Acura will lose them. But I suspect there are quite a few others like me who have decided that MTs have had their day and it's time to move on. I'm not surprised by Acura's decision to go all in with the DCT and I do think, overall, it's the right choice. Sadly the number of true MT diehards is just too small to be worth accommodating.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 18:44
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Calgarian wrote:
With the need to keep cost in control it appears that the manual tranny is toast. The other reality is the manual buyer has also all but disppeared. Luckily the 8 speed DCT is a great tranny.



7% of the total US market disagrees with you...

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 18:46
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Calgarian wrote:
With the need to keep cost in control it appears that the manual tranny is toast. The other reality is the manual buyer has also all but disppeared. Luckily the 8 speed DCT is a great tranny.

I am not sure this is a cost-based decision.
I think it is a matter of what the top management wants Acura to be, and let's face it, I drive an MT myself, but they're is nothing "advanced" nor "premium", "luxurious" or "sophisticated" on a manual transmission. Manuals belong to Honda's garage.

Osaka2002
Profile for Osaka2002
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 18:47
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owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 18:57
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sa3eedi wrote:
The manual buyer hasn't disappeared, they've just moved on from Acura seeing how they have nothing to offer them, there's no reason to compromise and accept a "great dct" transmission when other makes are offering options for the more demanding driver


This is exactly it. And I am sure BMW will be happy to continue to allow them into the fold. Remember that not only did the 3rd Gen TL move quite a few manual transmissions, but they also outsold the BMW 3 series for much of its life, while maintaining and enhancing Acura's sporty image.

But hey, Acura would rather not have all of those people that pay extra for options, and would rather have the ones that want a discount rate on leather and wood trim.

Also, the "enthusiast's don't exist" and look at Lexus, MB and Infiniti's lineup of manual transmissions!" people don't get it.

Lexus is trying, but struggling to gain enthusiasts, for the same reason Acura is and the same reason Infiniti has lost much of their buyer base and sales are doing poorly.

They stopped catering to the enthusiasts.

MB is an exception because they are really THE name in ostentatious luxury short of Rolls or Bentley, and even though they don't have any manuals, their cars have gotten much higher quality, much more powerful, and have become available in much more enthusiast oriented models compared to a few years ago.

Cadillac is struggling for sales due to a huge price increase, and some still slightly low-rent bits, but their image is unquestionably improving, and they are also catering to enthusiasts. Their sales are still far ahead of where they were 10 years ago.

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 19:29
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The question isn't how many have been buying MTs but rather how many are so committed to the technology that they will stick with it at any cost. The number of consumers who will refuse to consider a non-MT model, frankly, is highly likely to be so small as to be meaningless.

You can't determine how many are diehard MT supporters using past MT sales figures. I have long bought MTs. Tried to talk others into going that route. Yet for me, not offering a MT is no longer a dealbreaker. I'll be looking at Audi and, yes, Acura, when I get serious about buying a new car. How many other past and present owners of MT-equipped cars will, as MT-options fall away, give up the fight?

Let's not forget that a well-designed DCT, which Acura appears to have, is closer to being a viable alternative to a MT than older AT designs had been. Combine that with a dwindling list of MTs offered in the premium compact segment and you have MT-supporters being picked off, myself among them.

I'll tell you one thing, chances of selling far more 2.4L/DCT models than 2.4L/MT models is high. Even the rather weak current ILX would have moved a lot more units with a 2.4L/DCT than it has with a 2.4L/MT.

Torque
Profile for Torque
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 19:34
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Osaka2002 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.



Try multiplying that number by sales little fella.

You sound like a single speed fixie kind of bike rider bc even on a bicycle any gears over one is one too many for you and your mode of transportation.

So, how is that daily bicycle ride to community college now that the weather is starting to get colder?

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 20:17
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A Manual doesn't belong in the ILX.

There is no special engine or wide summer tires with a great susension,maybe in the future 2G ILX there will be a performance version that would call for a Manual.

It's just the bottom of the line Luxury Sedan for Acura with a boring engine.

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 20:34
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I want to save the manuals.. but you cannot fight the factual data. It's not the '80's anymore... or whenever the Manual was most popular. (For the U.S)
Calgarian
Profile for Calgarian
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 20:52
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Torque wrote:
Osaka2002 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.



Try multiplying that number by sales little fella.

You sound like a single speed fixie kind of bike rider bc even on a bicycle any gears over one is one too many for you and your mode of transportation.

So, how is that daily bicycle ride to community college now that the weather is starting to get colder?


Well I sell Acura and can count on one hand how many manual trans I have sold. Face it the manual buyers is going away just like the manual windup windows.

Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 21:24
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This is worse than sad. The MT was that last vestige of healthy exercise that a driver could experience while driving. First they took away that nice big crank that protruded from the front. Next they electrified the windscreen wipers. Now I cannot even satisfy my body's aerobic needs while cranking the window up and down. And the arm and hip stretching that was part of the door locking routine is long history. They even took away map folding and unfolding, which, at the very least, was an exercise in futility. Alas. No wonder I'm fat.
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 21:27
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Calgarian wrote:
Torque wrote:
Osaka2002 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.



Try multiplying that number by sales little fella.

You sound like a single speed fixie kind of bike rider bc even on a bicycle any gears over one is one too many for you and your mode of transportation.

So, how is that daily bicycle ride to community college now that the weather is starting to get colder?


Well I sell Acura and can count on one hand how many manual trans I have sold. Face it the manual buyers is going away just like the manual windup windows.


It's almost like the people who pined away for turntables as CDs were gaining broader acceptance. Yes, there were differences to be heard if you were using a Sota vacuum platter turntable with a linear technology air bearing tonearm and a Koetsu cartridge, but most people got better results with a $300 CD player.

There is still value to a manual transmission, but the people who can exploit it, or for whom it is critical are dwindling quickly. As a manual driver, I'm saddened by this but as a sales consultant, I understand it.

PoweredbyHondaX
Profile for PoweredbyHondaX
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 21:30
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It woulda been amazing MMC if SHAWD and 6mt added.

Now its just a good mmc and very expected. to be expect. ILX is now capable of competing with a3/b200/bmw 1 fwd.

Adam
Profile for Adam
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 22:26
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CivicB18 wrote:
sa3eedi wrote:
The manual buyer hasn't disappeared, they've just moved on from Acura seeing how they have nothing to offer them, there's no reason to compromise and accept a "great dct" transmission when other makes are offering options for the more demanding driver


Moved to where? Very few manufacturers offer manual transmissions as the demand has diminished.



As a four-time Acura MT owner (two Integras followed by two TSXs), I am likely to leave the Acura family in 2017 for a VW GTI, Mazda 3/6 or other MT option. Sorry, I'm just not ready to give in yet. Fortunately for AHM, I'm statistically meaningless and therefore won't be missed, unless Acura comes out with a Type-S TLX with a manual. I live in hope...

Sasker
Profile for Sasker
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 22:27
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Waldo wrote:
This is worse than sad. The MT was that last vestige of healthy exercise that a driver could experience while driving. First they took away that nice big crank that protruded from the front. Next they electrified the windscreen wipers. Now I cannot even satisfy my body's aerobic needs while cranking the window up and down. And the arm and hip stretching that was part of the door locking routine is long history. They even took away map folding and unfolding, which, at the very least, was an exercise in futility. Alas. No wonder I'm fat.


Good points! Can you believe for some weird people changing gears manually isn't work?

To further your points, you "automatic types" should stop driving all together because, you know, you still have to press on the gas pedal and turn the wheel! Too much work!


NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 23:16
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owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...

A bit outdated ya?

1. "According to Edmunds.com, the online automotive research company in Santa Monica, Calif., manual or stick shift transmissions comprised roughly seven percent of new car sales in the first quarter of 2012. By August 2013, the new cars sold in the U.S. with manual transmissions had dropped to 3.9 percent.

Twenty-seven years ago, 29 percent of new cars sold in the United States were equipped with manual transmissions."

2. "According to USA Today, in 2007, 693 models of new vehicles sold in the U.S. were available with manual transmissions. By 2012, 448 new models sold in the U.S. were available with manual transmissions. 1 Which is a decrease of over one third in 5 years. Furthermore, in 2013, 67% of new car models were only available with automatic transmissions. "

3. "But the publication also reported that resale value could be significantly lower on manual transmission vehicles since they're in far less demand. And like Edmunds.com Consumer Reports cited increased traffic and the requirement of advanced learning skills as significant reasons why automatics are increasingly more popular."

NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 23:24
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owequitit wrote:

MB is an exception because they are really THE name in ostentatious luxury short of Rolls or Bentley, and even though they don't have any manuals, their cars have gotten much higher quality, much more powerful, and have become available in much more enthusiast oriented models compared to a few years ago.


Give me a break. Have you ever tried its manual transmission?? I bet no one enjoys it, not even taxi drivers of those E class.

NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 23:38
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owequitit wrote:
Cadillac is struggling for sales due to a huge price increase, and some still slightly low-rent bits, but their image is unquestionably improving, and they are also catering to enthusiasts. Their sales are still far ahead of where they were 10 years ago.

Lol. OMG I can't believe you are so good.

P. S. See this.

NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-20-2014 23:45
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2003 Cadillac sales: 216,xxx
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2014 01:12
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Osaka2002 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.



It is well over Honda's total volume every year. Hardly miniscule.

Also, consider that at Honda's volume of roughly 1,000,000 cars per year, that would equal an additional 70,000 cars per year, or more than they currently sell of all Acura cars combined for about the last 5-6 years running.

It's actually really tragic when put into proper perspective.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2014 01:16
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owequitit wrote:
Osaka2002 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.



It is well over Honda's total volume every year. Hardly miniscule.

Also, consider that at Honda's volume of roughly 1,000,000 cars per year, that would equal an additional 70,000 cars per year, or more than they currently sell of all Acura cars combined for about the last 5-6 years running.

It's actually really tragic when put into proper perspective.




I just double checked the data as well, and Honda had about a 5.1% share of the total US market last year, so by your logic Honda should just stop selling cars because it is a "miniscule number..."

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2014 01:27
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CarmB wrote:
The question isn't how many have been buying MTs but rather how many are so committed to the technology that they will stick with it at any cost. The number of consumers who will refuse to consider a non-MT model, frankly, is highly likely to be so small as to be meaningless.

You can't determine how many are diehard MT supporters using past MT sales figures. I have long bought MTs. Tried to talk others into going that route. Yet for me, not offering a MT is no longer a dealbreaker. I'll be looking at Audi and, yes, Acura, when I get serious about buying a new car. How many other past and present owners of MT-equipped cars will, as MT-options fall away, give up the fight?

Let's not forget that a well-designed DCT, which Acura appears to have, is closer to being a viable alternative to a MT than older AT designs had been. Combine that with a dwindling list of MTs offered in the premium compact segment and you have MT-supporters being picked off, myself among them.

I'll tell you one thing, chances of selling far more 2.4L/DCT models than 2.4L/MT models is high. Even the rather weak current ILX would have moved a lot more units with a 2.4L/DCT than it has with a 2.4L/MT.



You are building strawmen again.

Nobody ever said nobody would want the 8DCT. Further, nobody said that Acura should not offer an AT, nor did they say that Acura should not offer one with the bigger engine. That is just you making false arguments to add value to your "point." The acceptance of the 8DCT does not mean a segment of the population would not buy an MT either, nor does it guarantee that sales would be down. Again, reference the GTI data for about the 4th time now.

I have met steel reinforced concrete walls that can hear better to be honest.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2014 01:30
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Calgarian wrote:
Torque wrote:
Osaka2002 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.



Try multiplying that number by sales little fella.

You sound like a single speed fixie kind of bike rider bc even on a bicycle any gears over one is one too many for you and your mode of transportation.

So, how is that daily bicycle ride to community college now that the weather is starting to get colder?


Well I sell Acura and can count on one hand how many manual trans I have sold. Face it the manual buyers is going away just like the manual windup windows.



How many do you typically have in stock at one time?

I can count on one hand the number of times I have actually been able to LOOK at an MT Acura on a lot, and one of them was way back in 2001 with a brand new Type-R sitting on the lot. Never did manage to find an MT TL, TL SH-AWD or an ILX MT on the lot. Was barely able to find the SH-AWD TL for that matter on an Acura lot.

Most people don't order cars, so you can't sell what you don't have. Also, in the case of Acura, they make it extremely difficult to order a car based on how they build things, so most likely all those manual buyers ended up on another brand's lot purchasing a car.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: No more manual transmissions in the Acura lineup [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2014 01:39
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Colin wrote:
Calgarian wrote:
Torque wrote:
Osaka2002 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
7% of the total US market disagrees with you...


A miniscule number.



Try multiplying that number by sales little fella.

You sound like a single speed fixie kind of bike rider bc even on a bicycle any gears over one is one too many for you and your mode of transportation.

So, how is that daily bicycle ride to community college now that the weather is starting to get colder?


Well I sell Acura and can count on one hand how many manual trans I have sold. Face it the manual buyers is going away just like the manual windup windows.


It's almost like the people who pined away for turntables as CDs were gaining broader acceptance. Yes, there were differences to be heard if you were using a Sota vacuum platter turntable with a linear technology air bearing tonearm and a Koetsu cartridge, but most people got better results with a $300 CD player.

There is still value to a manual transmission, but the people who can exploit it, or for whom it is critical are dwindling quickly. As a manual driver, I'm saddened by this but as a sales consultant, I understand it.



Except, get this: turntables and records have made a pronounced comeback. You can hardly find a store that sells CD's in this day and age, and yet, Vinyl stores are not only more common than anytime since the cassette tape, but they are actually FLOURISHING. Turntables too. I can find turn tables for sale of various qualities pretty readily in this day and age, when you used to only be able to find them at garage sales. They are even releasing NEW albums on vinyl again.

The best part? While only accounting for a small % of total music sales, these new vinyl records and accessories sell at a PREMIUM compared to digital and other physical media formats. Go figure that out...

This is probably also why manual sales have been on the rise lately. They break down the monotony of automated and electrically powered everything and actually put some fun back into driving. You will probably also see it become a counter culture thing amongst younger drivers simply because their parents didn't do it (personally, I hope it also fuels a wagon comeback).

Here is an interesting local statistic for you: I have 5-6 friends in their 20's who won't drive anything but a manual. I have 2-3 friends who prefer to drive manual, and pretty much require it on any "fun" vehicles they drive. I have a sister who is also in her mid-20's that won't drive anything but a manual. The difference is that generation hasn't had as much opportunity to define the marketplace because A) we aren't as big as the boomer generation and B) the economic collapse of 2008 has destroyed the buying power of anyone below about 25-30 depending on chosen profession.

Still amongst younger people, and against all forecast odds, manual sales are surprisingly robust, and probably more robust than the boomers ever were. If you look at vehicles with low median purchase ages, I bet you see a pretty high % of manuals. Cars like the Civic Si, GTI, Mustang, Camaro, Kia Soul, and several others come to mind.


 
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