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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup

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Mondgesicht
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Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-19-2014 07:46
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We all know, that Honda Europe is going to launch several new and updated vehicles next year. Unfortunately, very little is known about the engines. There are a lot of possibilities and rumours. Since these rumours are spread across several threads I thought it would be a good idea to merge them in one single thread.

Petrol

New Jazz (Fit):

1.3L ED - ~100PS (likely)
1.5L ED - ~130PS (likely)
1.0L Turbo - ~100-130PS (rumour)
1.5L Hybrid (unlikely due to battery shortage)
CVT (likely)
i-DCT (Hybrid)


New HR-V (Vezel):

1.3L ED? - ~100PS
1.5L ED - ~130PS (very likely, test mule)
1.8L ED? - ~165PS (China is getting these)
1.0L Turbo - ~100-130PS (rumour)
1.5L Turbo - ~150-200PS (rumour)
1.5L Hybrid (unlikely due to battery shortage)
CVT (likely)
i-DCT (Hybrid)


Civic Facelift:

1.0L Turbo - ~100-130PS (rumour)
1.5L Turbo - ~150-200PS (rumour)
1.5L ED - ~130PS (rumour)
1.8L ED - ~165PS (rumour)
1.4L (current)- ~100PS (unlikely)
1.8L (current) - ~140PS (unlikely)
1.5L Hybrid? (unlikely due to battery shortage)
CVT (likely)
i-DCT (Hybrid)?


Accord:

2.0L (current)? - ~155PS
2.4L (current)? - ~200PS
1.8L ED? - ~165PS
2.4L ED? - ~190PS
1.5 Turbo? - ~200PS
CVT?


CR-V

2.0L (current)? - ~155PS
1.8L ED? - ~165PS
1.5L Turbo? - ~150-200PS
CVT


New Typ-R

2.0L Turbo- >280PS (confirmed)
Weaker Engine? (2.0L Turbo or 1.5L Turbo, ~225PS)



Diesel

New Jazz (Fit):

1.5L Diesel - ~100PS (rumour)
1.6L Diesel? - ~120PS


New HR-V (Vezel):

1.6L Diesel? - ~120PS
Stronger Diesel?


Civic Facelift:

1.6L Diesel - ~120PS (likely)
Stronger Diesel?


Accord:

???


CR-V

1.6L Diesel - ~120PS (likely)
Stronger Diesel?


Maybe RolledaNsx can update this list, as he seems to have insider information.

bigblue
Profile for bigblue
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-19-2014 16:47
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Good call on starting an engines thread, I've been meaning to do it myself or reanimate an old thread. There are so many rumours floating around, I'm now confused as to what's expected to happen in Japan / EU / US, what's been delayed, what's been cancelled, and even to some extent what made it to production (if anyone wants to summarise which engines are substantially new in the current US lineup since the Earth Dreams announcement, go ahead !). I don't think we've had anything new in europe apart from the 1.6 diesel.

At the start of 2013 I started [ this thread ] on the Earth Dreams engines, quoting the [ Nov 2011 ToV article on the proposed new engines ] I don't think we've seen any sign of the 1.8 litre class engine and now the rumors are all about small turbos ?


Pakos M
Profile for Pakos M
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2014 04:32
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1. Put the 1.5/1.6 diesels to the whole line-up.
2. Match these with automatics.
3. Watch sales recover.

They need these downsized diesels due to displacement, CO2 taxation. You cannot expect any Accord sales with 2.0-2.4 litre engines. Wake up.

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2014 11:41
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My understanding is that the i-DCD (DCT/DSG) gearbox is unlikely to make it outside of Japan in the near future. It will stay as 'Japan only' for the time being with no indication when it will start to go outside of Japan.
MarkR
Profile for MarkR
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2014 14:25
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Pakos M wrote:
1. Put the 1.5/1.6 diesels to the whole line-up.
2. Match these with automatics.
3. Watch sales recover.

They need these downsized diesels due to displacement, CO2 taxation. You cannot expect any Accord sales with 2.0-2.4 litre engines. Wake up.



+1 Pakos.

Funny how TOVers think a 201hp 2.4Liter engine is relevant in todays world. Hell, my 320hp engine does almost same MPG than the old 2.4 (TOVers will say it ED style, that is less Hp and low torque with average FE)

Yes, super modern diesels or turbos or some super expensive NA engines.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2014 14:54
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The Spirior is supposed to have the 2.0 ED with CVT or 2.4 ED with 8DCT for China, so it seems that it is presumed we'll get the same car.

Which is about as logical as expecting the handbook to be written in Mandarin.

Pakos M
Profile for Pakos M
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2014 15:13
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Southern EU taxation/insurance:
Mondeo 1.0l 120e/year
Accord 2.4l 1500e/year

Honda Europe: We did not sell any Accords in southern EU while Ford sold half a million Mondeos. We don't understand why is that, our product is so much better.
Answer: You are idiots.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-20-2014 19:36
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Nick GravesX wrote:
The Spirior is supposed to have the 2.0 ED with CVT or 2.4 ED with 8DCT for China, so it seems that it is presumed we'll get the same car.

Which is about as logical as expecting the handbook to be written in Mandarin.



How about Spirior(Euro Accord) with 1.5L VTEC Turbo with 8DCT? What's the tax rate on 1.5L?
And the 2.0L Two-Motor Hybrid system from the Accord?

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 06:05
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
The Spirior is supposed to have the 2.0 ED with CVT or 2.4 ED with 8DCT for China, so it seems that it is presumed we'll get the same car.

Which is about as logical as expecting the handbook to be written in Mandarin.



How about Spirior(Euro Accord) with 1.5L VTEC Turbo with 8DCT? What's the tax rate on 1.5L?
And the 2.0L Two-Motor Hybrid system from the Accord?



Cannot give you a meaningful answer, as it's all based upon a ficticious 'carbon emissions' witchcraft number and varies from country to country. Typical accountant answer...

However, those two powertrain choices plus the cancer engine (twin-turbo version?) ought to make a great deal more sense within the regime.

Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 06:59
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So in Germany the 2.4 would be about the same as the little diesel on taxes.
Would really think the euro accord needs a version with the ctr engine with MT, halo effect and so on.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 10:09
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Fan Koni wrote:
So in Germany the 2.4 would be about the same as the little diesel on taxes.
Would really think the euro accord needs a version with the ctr engine with MT, halo effect and so on.



I also thought that the re-birth of the Accord Type-R would be great for its image!

Maybe they (and possibly the Diseasels) could be at least final-assembled at Swindon for RoW?

Mondgesicht
Profile for Mondgesicht
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 14:41
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Honda Germany stated on their YouTube channel, that the Typ R will be the first model in Europe to be equiped with an Earth Dreams turbo engine , so we probably wont see any other turbos until 2016.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 15:09
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WongKN wrote:
My understanding is that the i-DCD (DCT/DSG) gearbox is unlikely to make it outside of Japan in the near future. It will stay as 'Japan only' for the time being with no indication when it will start to go outside of Japan.



I honestly think that the future for the Small Car Hybrids is a downsized iMMD powertrain... something with a 130bhp electric motor and 1.6L Atkinson ED engine.

iDCD just doesn't sound so good.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 15:22
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Nick GravesX wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
So in Germany the 2.4 would be about the same as the little diesel on taxes.
Would really think the euro accord needs a version with the ctr engine with MT, halo effect and so on.



I also thought that the re-birth of the Accord Type-R would be great for its image!

Maybe they (and possibly the Diseasels) could be at least final-assembled at Swindon for RoW?



Would the NA Accord Coupe V6 6MT sell in the EU?

How about the TLX V6 SH-AWD?

Maybe HoE should just swing for the fences and sell you guys cars that really rip. Something that will leave a Bimmer in the dust.

I really feel sorry for you guys in the EU. You drive such dinky cars nowadays.

Yeah, you can get some big honking motors in these Kraut Mobiles but who really buys them? Who can afford to run them?

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 15:51
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As far as media coverage goes, Honda completely gave up on Hybrids in Europe. There won't be a gasoline-electric Honda anymore after the current GP1 (Jazz IMA Hybird) runs out.

Partly Honda Europe never really had a strong interest into Hybrid cars (did anyone see any commercials?), partly the offered Hybrids were too weak in comparision with direct competitors and partly Hondas logistic background with Hybrid production only in Japan prevented competitive prices for the few Hybrids that were offered.

The next gen Jazz is likely to be offered with a Diesel variant (likely a 1.5L engine first used in india), a Civic hybrid hasn't been offered in Europe anymore after 2010 and is also not available in other markets yet, and the Accord is bound to be striken totally from the Euro lineup.

Honda decided for Europe to follow the pack with yet untested downsized Gasoline turbo-engines, downsized diseasel engines, and a few NA engines as the low end offer. In terms of transmission, you'll see a dominance of MTs and a good chance that newly developed, yet untested DCTs being used instead of the Earth Dreams CVTs that you have in the rest of the world.

In other words, Honda Europe will become this.

Pakos M
Profile for Pakos M
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 04:02
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@rolledansx
Tax rates and insurance are based on displacement and Co2 emissions mostly so a 1.5 turbo 8dct or a 1.5 diesel or a 1.5 mmd Accord would sell big, a 2.0 liter mmd or a even worst a 2.4liter one are almost "banned" in some countries while there are others like France that has no road taxation at all.

@kaizendo Honda decided for Europe to follow the pack...
Your description is spot on. Honda should have followed the pack years ago as Nissan did. I can see you bashing dual clutch all the time, wait until triple clutch comes to play :)
You do know though that Honda is putting dct to their motorbikes, where they also have some problems but they are evolving. 70% of the Integra (not the dc5 one) sales are with dct.

Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 04:35
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TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
So in Germany the 2.4 would be about the same as the little diesel on taxes.
Would really think the euro accord needs a version with the ctr engine with MT, halo effect and so on.



I also thought that the re-birth of the Accord Type-R would be great for its image!

Maybe they (and possibly the Diseasels) could be at least final-assembled at Swindon for RoW?



Would the NA Accord Coupe V6 6MT sell in the EU?

How about the TLX V6 SH-AWD?

Maybe HoE should just swing for the fences and sell you guys cars that really rip. Something that will leave a Bimmer in the dust.

I really feel sorry for you guys in the EU. You drive such dinky cars nowadays.

Yeah, you can get some big honking motors in these Kraut Mobiles but who really buys them? Who can afford to run them?



So ford is finally officially bringing the mustang. But that has heritage.
So how well... No. No the fwd accord plank won't attract many. The old engine j is nice but if you put the cash on the table nice needs proper after market support.
AWD and MT and turbo some would go for it.

Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 04:43
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Nick GravesX wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
So in Germany the 2.4 would be about the same as the little diesel on taxes.
Would really think the euro accord needs a version with the ctr engine with MT, halo effect and so on.



I also thought that the re-birth of the Accord Type-R would be great for its image!

Maybe they (and possibly the Diseasels) could be at least final-assembled at Swindon for RoW?



Well what if Swindon makes the next ILX type r from the ctr drivetrain?
Really don't see Honda China sending kits to UK. The chassis would almost need to be welded and then its expensive to send around.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 05:01
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Fan Koni wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
So in Germany the 2.4 would be about the same as the little diesel on taxes.
Would really think the euro accord needs a version with the ctr engine with MT, halo effect and so on.



I also thought that the re-birth of the Accord Type-R would be great for its image!

Maybe they (and possibly the Diseasels) could be at least final-assembled at Swindon for RoW?



Well what if Swindon makes the next ILX type r from the ctr drivetrain?
Really don't see Honda China sending kits to UK. The chassis would almost need to be welded and then its expensive to send around.



The early Accords made here were CKD, which probably makes more sense than PKD. If the volume is there. I suppose it depends whether the Spirior is a hit of a miss in China, then they might need the additional capacity.

Likewise, I cannot really foresee them shipping ILXs anywhere from Swindon - unless it's sold locally as well. Would be easier to crate the engines.

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 12:02
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Pakos M wrote:
@kaizendo Honda decided for Europe to follow the pack...
Your description is spot on. Honda should have followed the pack years ago as Nissan did. I can see you bashing dual clutch all the time, wait until triple clutch comes to play :)
You do know though that Honda is putting dct to their motorbikes, where they also have some problems but they are evolving. 70% of the Integra (not the dc5 one) sales are with dct.


If you take a closer look, Nissan didn't follow the pack but made a bet and win, by pioneering the compact super-useless-vehicle - better known as Quashquai. It were the Europeans who followed Nissan and started building their own. Honda on the other hand is walking in trampled down grass, where everyone else has already been. Nothing special about them anymore.

DCTs actually have been made by europeans with the love for abrupt shifts, headnodding, shifting done by the driver and driving with overcapacity. Neither comfort, nor fuel economy, nor long term realiability is adressed. And I'm sure that if they can make an transmission that'll shake even more and scream for garage overhauls every 15.000km, they would also do an quadro clutch transmission. ;)

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 12:55
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It's actually the Qashqai, but Squashqai sounds about right.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 13:27
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CarPhreakD wrote:
It's actually the Qashqai, but Squashqai sounds about right.


CashCow!

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 13:40
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I heard in Mexico they sell it as Qetzaqatl :D
BG
Profile for BG
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 18:58
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KaizenDo wrote:
Pakos M wrote:
@kaizendo Honda decided for Europe to follow the pack...
Your description is spot on. Honda should have followed the pack years ago as Nissan did. I can see you bashing dual clutch all the time, wait until triple clutch comes to play :)
You do know though that Honda is putting dct to their motorbikes, where they also have some problems but they are evolving. 70% of the Integra (not the dc5 one) sales are with dct.


If you take a closer look, Nissan didn't follow the pack but made a bet and win, by pioneering the compact super-useless-vehicle - better known as Quashquai. It were the Europeans who followed Nissan and started building their own. Honda on the other hand is walking in trampled down grass, where everyone else has already been. Nothing special about them anymore.

DCTs actually have been made by europeans with the love for abrupt shifts, headnodding, shifting done by the driver and driving with overcapacity. Neither comfort, nor fuel economy, nor long term realiability is adressed. And I'm sure that if they can make an transmission that'll shake even more and scream for garage overhauls every 15.000km, they would also do an quadro clutch transmission. ;)



Honda were pretty much first to this market segment with the original HR-V, trouble is that they didn't offer a diesel option in order to gain the foot holds that this market needs and thus sales dropped and was never renewed. Plus, was the HR-V ever marketed in any public way, I don't remember tbh?? Now enters Qashqai!!

as you say, they return to the sub SUV/crossover market which is already now flooded with competitors??

But I remember reading an interview from someone within Honda, and although they were impressed with the sales figure of the "squash-cow", they were even more impressed by the sales numbers of the smaller juke (puke) model.

This is what they are targeting the new HR-V against. The 1.6 2wd CR-V seems to be able to target the Qashqai market.




bigblue
Profile for bigblue
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 19:31
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KaizenDo wrote:
DCTs actually have been made by europeans with the love for abrupt shifts, headnodding, shifting done by the driver and driving with overcapacity.
Ignoring any other points, why would a quick DCT shift be worse than a manual regarding feel as a passenger ? It's much the same thing just with a shorter gap between one gear and the next which would be beneficial from a passenger point of view ?

What does "driving with overcapacity" mean ?

Bence
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Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 19:53
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KaizenDo wrote:
...DCTs actually have been made by europeans with the love for abrupt shifts, headnodding, shifting done by the driver and driving with overcapacity. Neither comfort, nor fuel economy, nor long term realiability is adressed. And I'm sure that if they can make an transmission that'll shake even more and scream for garage overhauls every 15.000km, they would also do an quadro clutch transmission. ;)

That description fits to automated manuals, not DCTs. DCT - with proper calibration/electronics - are very transparent, lightning quick and velvety smooth. Honda theoretically engineered out their low-speed jerkiness with a torque converter...

Yes, even VW DSGs can work near-flawlessly, but their brains degrade sometimes a bit too early and this results in unbelievable shifts, noises, etc. Funny that the Borg Warner hardware is usually intact, but the electronics $hits into the soup.

Mondgesicht
Profile for Mondgesicht
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-22-2014 21:07
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bigblue wrote:
Ignoring any other points, why would a quick DCT shift be worse than a manual regarding feel as a passenger ? It's much the same thing just with a shorter gap between one gear and the next which would be beneficial from a passenger point of view ?

What does "driving with overcapacity" mean ?

KaizenDo just hates DCT and turbos with passion.
Modern DCT shift almost as smooth as torque converters and are way better than (automated) manuals when it comes to shifting quality.
Ironicly, KaizenDo drives an automated manual (Auris 1.6 MMT) which is by far the worst transmission I have ever driven in terms of comfort (slow and lots of headnodding). In fact, I think it's even worse than a manual for that matter. Maybe that's why the thinks DCT are the same (which they are not!).

Driving with overcapacity is somewhat difficult to explain, since it requires some basic understanding on how an engine works.

Every engine has a certain power at a certain speed (rpm). The higher the speed (rpm), the higher the power. When you are driving at a certain speed, the engines rpm are locked to the rotations of your wheels (depending on the gear of course) via the transmission e.g. 50 mph --> 2500 rpm in 6th gear. At 2500rpm you engine can produce ... let's say 70 hp. However, to maintain your speed, you only need 40 hp. So you engine doesn't run at full load (it injects less fuel).

If you want to accelerate, you need more power. In this case, your engine can provide up to 70 hp (by injecting more fuel) without shifting. You only have to downshift (raise rpm) if you need even more power. That's what KaizenDO means with overcapacity. It has benefits (moderate acceleration without dramatic rpm changes) and downsides (higher rpm = more friction = higher fuel consumption).

KaizenDos point is, that with a CVT, the engine rpm is NOT linked to the wheel rotations because there are no gears. So if you are going the 50 mph from before, the CVT will reduce the rpm to a point where your engine just barely provides the 40 hp you need (eg. 2000rpm @ 100% load).

This also has advantages and disadvantages.
The engine rpm is lower, so there's less friction and noise but if you want to accelerate, the engine has to significantly increase rpm (eg. 2500 rpm if you want the same acceleration as in the previous exaple) EVERY time you want to accelerate (even if just slightly) because it doesn't have any reserve (overcapacity) while driving.

That's why people consider CVT as nervous, high reving, etc. This is also the source of "rubberbanding".
Since the engine has absolutly no reserves, nothing happens for a moment when you step on the gas (rpm have to go up first to provide the additional required power) so you press the pedal even harder while the engine rpm are still raising. Since you are pressing the pedal harder than initially planed the rpm go higher than you anticipated and so does acceleration --> rubberbanding. Luckily, that happens relatively quick on modern CVT.

So basically you are trading constant higher rpm for lower rpm with more rpm changes. Humans stop hearing a constant noise after some time so they usually prefer a transmission with less rpm changes but higher overall rpm over a "nervous" one.

However to be fair, the more gears torque convertes and DCT get, the smaller the overcapacity, and the more CVT-like their behaviour becomes. So theoretically you could consider CVT (with infinite gears) to be the end of the developement of getting more and more gears.

Unfortunately, the efficiency of CVT is very low compared to DCT (and of course manual) and at the moment. They fail to overcompensade that and thus (dry) 7gear+ DCT offer a lower fuel consumption and a more "classical" engine rpm behaviour (at least for the moment!).
That's why Honda switched from CVT to DCT in the new Fit Hybrid.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-23-2014 09:20
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Bence wrote:
KaizenDo wrote:
...DCTs actually have been made by europeans with the love for abrupt shifts, headnodding, shifting done by the driver and driving with overcapacity. Neither comfort, nor fuel economy, nor long term realiability is adressed. And I'm sure that if they can make an transmission that'll shake even more and scream for garage overhauls every 15.000km, they would also do an quadro clutch transmission. ;)

That description fits to automated manuals, not DCTs. DCT - with proper calibration/electronics - are very transparent, lightning quick and velvety smooth. Honda theoretically engineered out their low-speed jerkiness with a torque converter...

Yes, even VW DSGs can work near-flawlessly, but their brains degrade sometimes a bit too early and this results in unbelievable shifts, noises, etc. Funny that the Borg Warner hardware is usually intact, but the electronics $hits into the soup.



I have yet to encounter one DCT... save for Porsche's PDK, that doesn't lurch and grumble on stop/go traffic on steep hills.

KaizenDo
Profile for KaizenDo
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-23-2014 12:15
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Mondgesicht wrote:
Ironicly, KaizenDo drives an automated manual (Auris 1.6 MMT) which is by far the worst transmission I have ever driven in terms of comfort (slow and lots of headnodding). In fact, I think it's even worse than a manual for that matter. Maybe that's why the thinks DCT are the same (which they are not!).


Either you haven't actually driven the Aisin AMT yourself, you mix it up with LUKs AMT, or you simply can't drive an automated car properly.

AMTs as well as DCTs use automated clutches with fixed gear ratios. An ECU uses sensor data and decides the proper gear to be used. Aisin set it's AMT for longer reaction time, except for Manual or Sports mode, so shifts are taking time but don't happen abrubt as experienced with LUKs AMT in french, german and probably also Honda cars (i-SHIFT).

Coming back to DCT, more gears with quicker shifting time increases the tendency for flurry shifting processes back and forth, especially in low speed situations like cities, parking, turning, etc. Dry clutch transmissions are in theory more efficient than other automatics, however freuquent shifting processes cause frictional heat and wear that cause additional problems to the jerky behaviour mentioned above. This is why most DCT manufacturers by today change to wet clutch and accept the efficiency loss.

Dry clutch DCTs sticked to an torque converter also will suffer efficiency losses, due to the converter and only time will tell if they last longer and can be made cheaper then wet clutch DCTs. Whichever will be, they are made for acceleration feel, not for comfort, economy or realiability.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Honda Europe 2015 Engine Lineup    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-23-2014 12:31
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KaizenDo wrote:
Mondgesicht wrote:
Ironicly, KaizenDo drives an automated manual (Auris 1.6 MMT) which is by far the worst transmission I have ever driven in terms of comfort (slow and lots of headnodding). In fact, I think it's even worse than a manual for that matter. Maybe that's why the thinks DCT are the same (which they are not!).


Either you haven't actually driven the Aisin AMT yourself, you mix it up with LUKs AMT, or you simply can't drive an automated car properly.

AMTs as well as DCTs use automated clutches with fixed gear ratios. An ECU uses sensor data and decides the proper gear to be used. Aisin set it's AMT for longer reaction time, except for Manual or Sports mode, so shifts are taking time but don't happen abrubt as experienced with LUKs AMT in french, german and probably also Honda cars (i-SHIFT).

Coming back to DCT, more gears with quicker shifting time increases the tendency for flurry shifting processes back and forth, especially in low speed situations like cities, parking, turning, etc. Dry clutch transmissions are in theory more efficient than other automatics, however freuquent shifting processes cause frictional heat and wear that cause additional problems to the jerky behaviour mentioned above. This is why most DCT manufacturers by today change to wet clutch and accept the efficiency loss.

Dry clutch DCTs sticked to an torque converter also will suffer efficiency losses, due to the converter and only time will tell if they last longer and can be made cheaper then wet clutch DCTs. Whichever will be, they are made for acceleration feel, not for comfort, economy or realiability.



So we have listen to your hate because you bought a Toyota with a piece of shit trans! Why are you on a Honda site?
They banned you from the Toyo sites?


 
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